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Unread 23 Nov 2006, 16:45   #1
AdmV0rl0n
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The rules for being a player, as stated by me.

Having watched this round, and seen a few things, I figured I'm gonna say it, even though others don't, won't, or simply dun care.

The Galaxy system is being torn to shreds. I've seen it all this round.

1. Gal members calling in their alliance to hammer other gal members in their own gals.
2. Gal members supplying inside gal information to their alliance. (Hint, if that info was meant to be outside, the game screens would provide the facility.)
3. Gal members 'mis-launching' or faking def without even bothering to really try and hide the fact.
4. Gal members taking alliance orders that undermine and destroy galaxies.

There has been other crap going on as well. And I guess this is really going out to PA team as well, so they can all absorb this.

The gal system is now in serious trouble. I know its been discussed to bring back the relevance of the gals and clusters, in some way to counter balance the affect of alliances. So I won't go into further in that regard.

There was a time where being part of a gal meant something, and you'd watch their back, and they'd watch yours. Not easy to do if they are plunging the knife in when you're not looking.

Rant Off.
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Unread 23 Nov 2006, 16:51   #2
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Re: The rules for being a player, as stated by me.

Having watched this round, and seen a few things, I figured I'm gonna say it, even though others don't, won't, or simply dun care.

The Alliance system is being torn to shreds. I've seen it all this round.

1. Alliance members calling in their galaxy to hammer other alliance members in their own alliances.
2. Alliance members supplying inside alliance information to their galaxy. (Hint, if that info was meant to be outside, the game screens would provide the facility.)
3. Alliance members 'mis-launching' or faking def vs. gal mates without even bothering to really try and hide the fact.
4. Alliance members taking galaxy orders that undermine and destroy alliances.

There has been other crap going on as well. And I guess this is really going out to PA team as well, so they can all absorb this.

The alliance system is now in serious trouble. I know its been discussed to bring back the relevance of alliances and cluster alliances, in some way to counter balance the affect of galaxies. So I won't go into further in that regard.

There was a time where being part of an alliance meant something, and you'd watch their back, and they'd watch yours. Not easy to do if they are plunging the knife in when you're not looking.

Rant Off.
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Unread 23 Nov 2006, 17:21   #3
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Re: The rules for being a player, as stated by me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NitinA
Having watched this round, and seen a few things, I figured I'm gonna say it, even though others don't, won't, or simply dun care.

The Alliance system is being torn to shreds. I've seen it all this round.

1. Alliance members calling in their galaxy to hammer other alliance members in their own alliances.
2. Alliance members supplying inside alliance information to their galaxy. (Hint, if that info was meant to be outside, the game screens would provide the facility.)
3. Alliance members 'mis-launching' or faking def vs. gal mates without even bothering to really try and hide the fact.
4. Alliance members taking galaxy orders that undermine and destroy alliances.

There has been other crap going on as well. And I guess this is really going out to PA team as well, so they can all absorb this.

The alliance system is now in serious trouble. I know its been discussed to bring back the relevance of alliances and cluster alliances, in some way to counter balance the affect of galaxies. So I won't go into further in that regard.

There was a time where being part of an alliance meant something, and you'd watch their back, and they'd watch yours. Not easy to do if they are plunging the knife in when you're not looking.

Rant Off.
Point 1 - Gals taking on alliances. Give me a break
Nothing here really works, although I'm sure you think your post was very amusing. Very few gals work as a unit against alliances. Very few gals, if any at all, actually do what you've claimed here, sorry.
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Unread 23 Nov 2006, 17:25   #4
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Re: The rules for being a player, as stated by me.

its not the alliances or galaxies that are the problem - its the players.
players who give the orders, players who follow them.
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Unread 23 Nov 2006, 17:32   #5
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Re: The rules for being a player, as stated by me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AdmV0rl0n
Point 1 - Gals taking on alliances. Give me a break
Nothing here really works, although I'm sure you think your post was very amusing. Very few gals work as a unit against alliances. Very few gals, if any at all, actually do what you've claimed here, sorry.
I think his point is valid tho. Loyalty towards alliances is a rare characteristic in some/alot of today's players.
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Unread 23 Nov 2006, 17:38   #6
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Re: The rules for being a player, as stated by me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cura
I think his point is valid tho. Loyalty towards alliances is a rare characteristic in some/alot of today's players.
No, but the context was totally flawed. The might well just be disloyal, its not how he claimed. They don't have loyalty to the gal against the alliance, they just have no loyalty in such cases.

That's totally different to the point I made.
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Unread 23 Nov 2006, 17:39   #7
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Re: The rules for being a player, as stated by me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AdmV0rl0n
1. Gal members calling in their alliance to hammer other gal members in their own gals.
I've been in a few galaxies and I've never actually see this happen, maybe I've just been in "lucky" galaxies

Quote:
Originally Posted by AdmV0rl0n
2. Gal members supplying inside gal information to their alliance. (Hint, if that info was meant to be outside, the game screens would provide the facility.)
Now this is done by virtually all alliances to gain intel on whose who in the Universe - this will always happen

Quote:
Originally Posted by AdmV0rl0n
3. Gal members 'mis-launching' or faking def without even bothering to really try and hide the fact.
Again, never seen this happen before

Quote:
Originally Posted by AdmV0rl0n
4. Gal members taking alliance orders that undermine and destroy galaxies.
Destroy galaxies? Kinda the point of PA :/

Don't get me wrong, the galaxy setup is pretty crap at the moment in my eyes and needs sorting out, ditto with the alliance setup but at the moment there isnt anything going to happen drastically [with Kloopy leaving, Appoco in planet Masters leaving myk the only coder around], or do we get another coder from outside coming in from Jolt [yes I needed to put some humour]?

Phil^ does also bring up a decent point, it would be fantastic if the playerbase realised that they have to in some respects they have some command in the game and could do something about PA - its the players money which makes PA [profitabley?] run.
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Unread 23 Nov 2006, 17:39   #8
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Re: The rules for being a player, as stated by me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AdmV0rl0n
Point 1 - Gals taking on alliances. Give me a break
Nothing here really works, although I'm sure you think your post was very amusing. Very few gals work as a unit against alliances. Very few gals, if any at all, actually do what you've claimed here, sorry.
I beg to differ. Throughout my expierence in playing PA, oftentimes as alliance officer or above, there certainly has been top galaxies which belonged to one "side" of a war. Top ranked galaxies which are often sided in a war can give huge firepower against an alliance. Then there's the isolated incidencts of galaxies declaring war on alliances after being hit hard.

My point was more to mirror you and show you that it can be seen both ways. Historically, players *have* and will probably continue to be kicked from their alliance for defending vs. their own alliance, or caring too much about their galaxy which can often conflict in many situations. I have seen logs in which a player (this round--specifically an Angel) organize hits on their alliance from their galaxy. I remember a case in round 18 where a member of an alliance would defend vs. his alliance in his galaxy. Which is my point. That it really depends 100% on your perspective of weather alliance or galaxy is more important. And some people choose galaxys--which can sometimes cover you a lot depending on it's activity, and some choose alliances--which last more than a round.
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Unread 23 Nov 2006, 17:41   #9
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Re: The rules for being a player, as stated by me.

As a player i've never sold out my galaxy. Maybe your galaxy mates are just rubbish!
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Unread 23 Nov 2006, 17:44   #10
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Re: The rules for being a player, as stated by me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AdmV0rl0n
Point 1 - Gals taking on alliances. Give me a break
Nothing here really works, although I'm sure you think your post was very amusing. Very few gals work as a unit against alliances. Very few gals, if any at all, actually do what you've claimed here, sorry.
Very few alliances, if any at all, actually do what you've claimed here, sorry.

Wow, I guess I can make totally unfounded statements on the internet as well!
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Unread 23 Nov 2006, 18:01   #11
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Re: The rules for being a player, as stated by me.

Galaxies are way to strong currently.

End of discussion.
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Unread 23 Nov 2006, 18:02   #12
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Re: The rules for being a player, as stated by me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AdmV0rl0n
There was a time where being part of a gal meant something, and you'd watch their back, and they'd watch yours.
Most of my galaxies have been like that. I think, perhaps, that you have unrealistic expectations though. An alliance is always going to be a more reliable source of def than a galaxy, unless you have a really good galaxy, so it's logical for players to put their first loyalty with their alliance. Have you given your gal-mates any reason to do otherwise? Have you discussed this with them?

You can't just expect people to do as you want without offering anything in return. Expecting a bunch of total strangers who simply happened to be randomly placed with you to put your interests ahead of the interests of the alliance they've been part of for several rounds (with loyalties which go back years) is completely unrealistic. But if you can offer some kind of advantage to them for doing so, perhaps they will consider it. It doesn't take much to build up some basic tribal loyalty in PA; personally, I tend to be fiercely defensive of galaxy members that I believe are contributing to the galaxy, but I couldn't care less about those who don't contribute. Why should I show loyalty to people who are there by random chance?

My guess is that there are specific individuals in your galaxy who have 'backstabbed' you (by not defending you against their alliance or something like that) and, rather than talk to them about it, you have decided that they must be wrong to do so, and have gone to AD to complain about it. I might be wrong, but I've been around long enough to know that most people will complain before having sufficiently engaged their brains and certainly before trying to find a real solution to their problem.
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Unread 23 Nov 2006, 18:02   #13
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Re: The rules for being a player, as stated by me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kargool
Galaxies are way to strong currently.

End of discussion.
You must be in a really shit alliance
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Unread 23 Nov 2006, 18:17   #14
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Re: The rules for being a player, as stated by me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ComradeRob
"Most of my galaxies have been like that. I think, perhaps, that you have unrealistic expectations though. An alliance is always going to be a more reliable source of def than a galaxy, unless you have a really good galaxy, so it's logical for players to put their first loyalty with their alliance. Have you given your gal-mates any reason to do otherwise? Have you discussed this with them?"

You didn't take in what I said. This stuff is not about who gives you the most defense. That is a separate issue. Neither an Alliance nor a Gal is a more 'reliable' source of defense. That's variable in both cases, with Alliances certainly capable of giving you 'heavier' defence.

"You can't just expect people to do as you want without offering anything in return. Expecting a bunch of total strangers who simply happened to be randomly placed with you to put your interests ahead of the interests of the alliance they've been part of for several rounds (with loyalties which go back years) is completely unrealistic."

Then the outlook is grim.

"But if you can offer some kind of advantage to them for doing so, perhaps they will consider it. It doesn't take much to build up some basic tribal loyalty in PA; personally, I tend to be fiercely defensive of galaxy members that I believe are contributing to the galaxy, but I couldn't care less about those who don't contribute. Why should I show loyalty to people who are there by random chance?"

I wonder how far that loyalty goes when you are told by your alliance not to def in gal.

"My guess is that there are specific individuals in your galaxy who have 'backstabbed' you (by not defending you against their alliance or something like that) and, rather than talk to them about it, you have decided that they must be wrong to do so, and have gone to AD to complain about it. I might be wrong, but I've been around long enough to know that most people will complain before having sufficiently engaged their brains and certainly before trying to find a real solution to their problem."
I can only point you to 1-4 so you can re-read it.

It seems the moral boundaries that exist in terms of farming (clearly seen as bad) are simply ignored in other areas of the game. While that is the case, this playerbase will collapse to zero.
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Unread 23 Nov 2006, 18:31   #15
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Re: The rules for being a player, as stated by me.

To some extent I agree. I don't like the current galaxy setup at all, but I think a lot of the fault lies with the playerbase. Things like fakenicking are stressed too much by alliances, for instance. And not knowing the real nick of someone you're meant to play the entire round with is not a good way to get to know them, as it excludes trust (If you can't trust someone with your real nick...).

Alliances are in my opinion too powerful with this setup, and having loyalty to your galaxy, which is after all partly hostile, can seem like a useless thing to do. I've seen people "forget" to report incomings of their galaxy mates because they belong to a hostile alliance, and this is in my opinion taking it too far. I'm just glad I landed in a nice galaxy after a good number of exiles. I'm enjoying the round where I am now, thankfully.
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Unread 23 Nov 2006, 18:32   #16
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Re: The rules for being a player, as stated by me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AdmV0rl0n
I can only point you to 1-4 so you can re-read it.
You have failed to explain why they should not do any of these things.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AdmV0rl0n
It seems the moral boundaries that exist in terms of farming (clearly seen as bad) are simply ignored in other areas of the game.
Farming is against the rules. Nothing you have mentioned is against the rules.
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Unread 23 Nov 2006, 18:43   #17
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Re: The rules for being a player, as stated by me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ComradeRob
You have failed to explain why they should not do any of these things.

Farming is against the rules. Nothing you have mentioned is against the rules.

1. Gal members calling in their alliance to hammer other gal members in their own gals.

Thats a form of farming for your alliance RIGHT there. Sure the target is a none voluntary farm, but that is irrelevant.

2. Gal members supplying inside gal information to their alliance. (Hint, if that info was meant to be outside, the game screens would provide the facility.)

Again, helping your alliance farm a gal, is just another method of cheating.

3. Gal members 'mis-launching' or faking def without even bothering to really try and hide the fact.

While not against any rule, that I grant you, its plain evil.

4. Gal members taking alliance orders that undermine and destroy galaxies.

That is a player issue, one that likely can't be solved by anything other than decency.
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Unread 23 Nov 2006, 18:48   #18
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Re: The rules for being a player, as stated by me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AdmV0rl0n
1. Gal members calling in their alliance to hammer other gal members in their own gals.

Thats a form of farming for your alliance RIGHT there. Sure the target is a none voluntary farm, but that is irrelevant.
No, it isnt given the definition of a farm requires it be voluntary from the planet being attacked.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AdmV0rl0n
2. Gal members supplying inside gal information to their alliance. (Hint, if that info was meant to be outside, the game screens would provide the facility.)

Again, helping your alliance farm a gal, is just another method of cheating.
Again, not farming. The person being attacked isnt giving the attackers information on their defenders.
You need to brush up on the definitions stipulated in the eula.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EULA
18.1. Farming:
Farming is illegal. The definitions of farming are, but are not limited to:
(a) Attacking a target with his/her consent to get his/her asteroids/ships
(b) Defending against someone who is attacking with their consent to steal
their ships.
(c) Abusing game features in order to gain excessive XP (e.g. roid farming)
(d) Doing either a, b or c by using multi-planets
And, before you jump on the "but not limited to" section - thats for pateam to add new definitions, not players.
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Unread 23 Nov 2006, 18:51   #19
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Re: The rules for being a player, as stated by me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AdmV0rl0n
1. Gal members calling in their alliance to hammer other gal members in their own gals.

Thats a form of farming for your alliance RIGHT there. Sure the target is a none voluntary farm, but that is irrelevant.
Eh, if you haven't noticed other gal members and targets alliance can and will defend him if they have fleets available. In many cases even the member of the attacker alliance can't influence on the attack decision in any way.
With your logic every attack would be farming and every player should be closed. Every target would be farm, though not voluntary one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AdmV0rl0n
2. Gal members supplying inside gal information to their alliance. (Hint, if that info was meant to be outside, the game screens would provide the facility.)

Again, helping your alliance farm a gal, is just another method of cheating.
That's just being loyal to your alliance, nothing to do with cheating.
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Unread 23 Nov 2006, 18:56   #20
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Re: The rules for being a player, as stated by me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AdmV0rl0n
1. Gal members calling in their alliance to hammer other gal members in their own gals.

Thats a form of farming for your alliance RIGHT there. Sure the target is a none voluntary farm, but that is irrelevant.
What the ****? Seriously, what the ****?

A farm is a planet run voluntarily by an individual for the purpose of providing roids either for another individual or for another of his own planets. Farming is the process of taking roids from a willing victim. What you have described is not farming, because none of the people being attacked are willing victims; they can defend themselves and will do so if they are capable of getting defence.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AdmV0rl0n
2. Gal members supplying inside gal information to their alliance. (Hint, if that info was meant to be outside, the game screens would provide the facility.)

Again, helping your alliance farm a gal, is just another method of cheating.
Cheating is doing something which is against the rules. There are no rules against disclosing information about your galaxy. Let's imagine that I am in your galaxy, and I attack your alliance every day. Would you be cheating if you disclosed details about my identity, my alliance or my fleet movements?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AdmV0rl0n
3. Gal members 'mis-launching' or faking def without even bothering to really try and hide the fact.

While not against any rule, that I grant you, its plain evil.
This actually makes sense. Lying to people is bad.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AdmV0rl0n
4. Gal members taking alliance orders that undermine and destroy galaxies.

That is a player issue, one that likely can't be solved by anything other than decency.
Decency is subjective. Perhaps, from another perspective, siding with your galaxy would be a betrayal of your alliance.
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Unread 23 Nov 2006, 18:58   #21
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Re: The rules for being a player, as stated by me.

One thing that really pisses me off is little shits who mail you with false recall messages and the like. Is it the highlight of their day or something?
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Unread 23 Nov 2006, 19:03   #22
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Re: The rules for being a player, as stated by me.

A farm is a planet run voluntarily by an individual for the purpose of providing roids either for another individual or for another of his own planets. Farming is the process of taking roids from a willing victim. What you have described is not farming, because none of the people being attacked are willing victims; they can defend themselves and will do so if they are capable of getting defence.

--------

No wonder some of you do well then. All you have to do to set up farms is merely have them and never 'volunteer' them. So long as its not voluntary, (now, there is another whole effing thread right there), its not a farm.
Marvellous logic.

*Sigh*
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Unread 23 Nov 2006, 19:17   #23
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Re: The rules for being a player, as stated by me.

The process OF setting up a farm dictates that you volunteer its roids for certain people. It is a necessary function for a farm planet.

This is not a complicated issue, i cant see why you are unable to grasp it.
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Unread 23 Nov 2006, 19:19   #24
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Re: The rules for being a player, as stated by me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AdmV0rl0n
No wonder some of you do well then. All you have to do to set up farms is merely have them and never 'volunteer' them. So long as its not voluntary, (now, there is another whole effing thread right there), its not a farm.
Marvellous logic.

*Sigh*
I suddenly feel a need for the world's largest question mark here.
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Unread 23 Nov 2006, 19:26   #25
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Re: The rules for being a player, as stated by me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AdmV0rl0n
No wonder some of you do well then. All you have to do to set up farms is merely have them and never 'volunteer' them. So long as its not voluntary, (now, there is another whole effing thread right there), its not a farm.
Marvellous logic.

*Sigh*
A farmer is a person who attacks a planet which he knows will not be defended. A non-farmer attacks planets which may receive defence, depending on the capabilities of the planet under attack, his galaxy and alliance. There's an interesting thread on the suggestions forum which discusses the role played by illegitimate farms in past rounds and the pros and cons of banning such farming.

A person who tries to get defence for themselves cannot be a farm. Let me give you an example: imagine that you and I are in the same galaxy. You don't like me (perhaps I attacked your friends, or insulted you, or whatever), and you encourage someone else to attack me. By your definition, I am now a 'farm'. But I am still entirely capable of getting defence from my alliance or from other planets in the galaxy, or friends in the cluster. In these circumstances, I am obviously not a farm. I might be annoyed by your behaviour, but maybe I deserved it for repeatedly attacking your alliance, or for insulting you? I'm certainly not anyone's farm in this scenario.
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Unread 23 Nov 2006, 20:46   #26
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Re: The rules for being a player, as stated by me.

Surely thats the beauty of pa?

You have alliances/planets and galaxies and its down to each individual to decide on what he feels strongly about.

I personally am fiercely loyal of my gal mates (i was kicked from my alliance last round for retaliating someone who was hitting one).
That said, I would (and have) had someones planet smacked back to the stoneage in my gal when they cheated.
And everyone knows my alliance comes first almost always.

Its a juggling act for the players, and the alliances (hence why elvis and sid have differing views on last round, because they both have different agendas and convictions on how to play the game).

Thats the beauty of pa, its about personal choice and personal values.
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Unread 23 Nov 2006, 22:38   #27
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Re: The rules for being a player, as stated by me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ComradeRob
You must be in a really shit alliance
TGV as an alliance have roided more or less only top 10 galaxies of late and we've paid for that with having eXil as the most hostile alliance towards us of late.

My point is that the size of the galaxies now is making it hard for smaller alliances (like thoose below top 10) to roid a galaxy. There are simply to many planets for a smaller alliance to cover, and after asking around a bit I found out that a lot of the smaller alliances were having theese problems. A lower galaxy limit will make it "easier" for the smaller alliances to continue with what they do best instead of forcing them to roid smaller less active galaxies with alot of waves.

This is a circle of tragedy tbh. People cant hit the higher ranked galaxies, and the smaller galaxies suffer because of this and thus more people gets bored with the constant incs (see several threads about multiple waves on planets in shit galaxies) and quit. We need to make the universe balanced.
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Unread 24 Nov 2006, 00:23   #28
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Re: The rules for being a player, as stated by me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kargool
My point is that the size of the galaxies now is making it hard for smaller alliances (like thoose below top 10) to roid a galaxy. There are simply to many planets for a smaller alliance to cover, and after asking around a bit I found out that a lot of the smaller alliances were having theese problems.
Tell those small alliances to change tactics then; [BIG] have no issues hitting any galaxy.
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Unread 24 Nov 2006, 00:36   #29
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Re: The rules for being a player, as stated by me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cannon_Fodder
One thing that really pisses me off is little shits who mail you with false recall messages and the like. Is it the highlight of their day or something?
earlier this round i was being hit by ND/LCH and i had a wave of 3 planets on me. one of said planets was Spritfire from ND. i ran it through the tof arbiter and it turned out he had a SMS number stored in. i sent him a SMS pretending to be the other ND player on his wave telling him its not worth landing and to recall as i was gonna recall. about 15 minutes later he recalled.

oh how we had a good laugh about it in the tof intel room
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Unread 24 Nov 2006, 00:37   #30
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Re: The rules for being a player, as stated by me.

What?

I choose the alliance I join.

I don't get to choose most of the muppet I end up in a galaxy with.

Surely that's a pretty big difference right there. Why should I be loyal to a bunch of people I've been "randomly" placed with for the round?
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Unread 24 Nov 2006, 00:48   #31
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Re: The rules for being a player, as stated by me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mek
earlier this round i was being hit by ND/LCH and i had a wave of 3 planets on me. one of said planets was Spritfire from ND. i ran it through the tof arbiter and it turned out he had a SMS number stored in. i sent him a SMS pretending to be the other ND player on his wave telling him its not worth landing and to recall as i was gonna recall. about 15 minutes later he recalled.

oh how we had a good laugh about it in the tof intel room
Clearly classy behaviour there. Well done. I'm sure your efforts will be lauded from now until the end of PA.
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Unread 24 Nov 2006, 00:55   #32
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Re: The rules for being a player, as stated by me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mek
earlier this round i was being hit by ND/LCH and i had a wave of 3 planets on me. one of said planets was Spritfire from ND. i ran it through the tof arbiter and it turned out he had a SMS number stored in. i sent him a SMS pretending to be the other ND player on his wave telling him its not worth landing and to recall as i was gonna recall. about 15 minutes later he recalled.

oh how we had a good laugh about it in the tof intel room
what's so funny about that? i think that's a pretty easy mistake to make.
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Unread 24 Nov 2006, 01:13   #33
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Re: The rules for being a player, as stated by me.

Gals suck, I wish I could afford to exile outta my craphole one
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Unread 24 Nov 2006, 01:20   #34
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Re: The rules for being a player, as stated by me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mek
earlier this round i was being hit by ND/LCH and i had a wave of 3 planets on me. one of said planets was Spritfire from ND. i ran it through the tof arbiter and it turned out he had a SMS number stored in. i sent him a SMS pretending to be the other ND player on his wave telling him its not worth landing and to recall as i was gonna recall. about 15 minutes later he recalled.

oh how we had a good laugh about it in the tof intel room
I'm totally against any exploitation of SMS numbers, including storing them in an arbiter in the first place.

Read this thread from last January to gage AD's opinion on this.

To quote lokken from that thread:

Quote:
Originally Posted by lokken
SMS are private information and like details such as player's addresses, should be kept as such.
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Unread 24 Nov 2006, 01:58   #35
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Re: The rules for being a player, as stated by me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rshih
Gals suck, I wish I could afford to exile outta my craphole one
You should exile into our gal! I cannot imagine how horrible it is playing in a gal that takes it all so seriously


On a number of separate topics, neither alliances nor galaxies are intrinsically more important, it's about where you place value and who you believe you can count on. Texting people in the middle of the night because you've found their SMS number isn't funny, it's faggotry. Nor is this the first round that galaxies have organised hits on their gal members or anything like that. Hell it happened back when we had real private galaxies.
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Unread 24 Nov 2006, 02:45   #36
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Re: The rules for being a player, as stated by me.

THE MOST IMPORTANT RULE IS TO DRINK AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE, TO BE AS OFFLINE AS POSSIBLE, and to not write with caps lock on.
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Unread 24 Nov 2006, 06:25   #37
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Re: The rules for being a player, as stated by me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heartless
THE MOST IMPORTANT RULE IS TO DRINK AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE, TO BE AS OFFLINE AS POSSIBLE, and to not write with caps lock on.

and messing up stuff
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Unread 24 Nov 2006, 09:32   #38
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Re: The rules for being a player, as stated by me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by furball
I'm totally against any exploitation of SMS numbers, including storing them in an arbiter in the first place.

Read this thread from last January to gage AD's opinion on this.

To quote lokken from that thread:
if you dont want your sms used dont give it out...its that simple.

sure it was a pretty low thing to do, but i will do anything to protect my roids...at the end of the day its pretty similar to sending fake recall mails, your lying on both...they are just 2 different ways of getting them to the user.
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Unread 24 Nov 2006, 09:39   #39
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Re: The rules for being a player, as stated by me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mek
if you dont want your sms used dont give it out...its that simple.

sure it was a pretty low thing to do, but i will do anything to protect my roids...at the end of the day its pretty similar to sending fake recall mails, your lying on both...they are just 2 different ways of getting them to the user.
You obviously wouldn't do anything. Unless you're actually going to kill people if they attack you. This is a case where for many people it actually crosses the line into a criminal offence, ie harassment.
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Unread 24 Nov 2006, 11:44   #40
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Re: The rules for being a player, as stated by me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ComradeRob
A farmer is a person who attacks a planet which he knows will not be defended. A non-farmer attacks planets which may receive defence, depending on the capabilities of the planet under attack, his galaxy and alliance. There's an interesting thread on the suggestions forum which discusses the role played by illegitimate farms in past rounds and the pros and cons of banning such farming.

A person who tries to get defence for themselves cannot be a farm. Let me give you an example: imagine that you and I are in the same galaxy. You don't like me (perhaps I attacked your friends, or insulted you, or whatever), and you encourage someone else to attack me. By your definition, I am now a 'farm'. But I am still entirely capable of getting defence from my alliance or from other planets in the galaxy, or friends in the cluster. In these circumstances, I am obviously not a farm. I might be annoyed by your behaviour, but maybe I deserved it for repeatedly attacking your alliance, or for insulting you? I'm certainly not anyone's farm in this scenario.

-----

No, the unfortunate case in question was more complex, the buddy pack that ran 8/7, and this included the officers, were in on the act. Getting defense IN GAL becomes impossible, or close to impossible in that situation.

Unless the player is a member of a powerful alliance at that stage,correction, I am sorry, even IF they have a powerful alliance, No one can actually escape being a farm. You cannot be online 24/7, and the gal in question clearly is unlikely to report incoming THEY requested, are they? And they have the privilaged position of seeing when you are online, and other information only seen in gal.

I'm sorry to argue with you, but in that case, it became a none voluntary farm, and IMHO there was game abuse ongoing there. Wether you like that point of view...

So, you may not like the basic premise, but IMHO in that senario, the player becomes a farm.

Off course, we then end up expressing semantics of wether this fits the exact terms of 'farm' care of the EULA. I never actually started this thread to get into an argument about the semantics of the EULA, and indeed Phil was right in his first comment, the problem is deeper tahn that discussion, its down to how people play, what orders they are issuning, and what orders are being followed....
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Unread 24 Nov 2006, 12:00   #41
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Re: The rules for being a player, as stated by me.

In that case the guy should have asked his ally to jgp him until he has the needed ressources for selfexile. Also what did the player in question do to warrant this behaviour by his galaxy?

Also the point still stands that there can be no such thing as a non-voluntary farm. As farming is done with agreement of the guy who's getting farmed.

All in all these things have happened since round 1 and most of the time theres a good reason for them happening. E.g. Spying on the gal, sending fake defense or generally being a twat.

It might be an abuse of power and almost impossible to defend against, but game abuse? Are any bugs being exploited? I don't really see that. Sure the guy got roided down, but what can i say, thats the goal of the game.
Lesson to learn for you: Be nice to your gal and they'll be nice to you.

I'd like to add that my gal this round, eventhough we have allies from both sides in our gal has been a very nice place to hang around from the moment on where we decided not to fakenick anymore. We couldnt always defend each other but well thats life and we just carried on.

So please stop whining and try to work together with the people in your gal and if that doesnt work self-exile.
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Unread 24 Nov 2006, 13:22   #42
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Re: The rules for being a player, as stated by me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mek
if you dont want your sms used dont give it out...its that simple.
PA has got to the point it has (i.e. survived over 20 rounds) because players have felt able to rely on each other to assist when necessary. It's implied into every galaxy that the players will work together, including sending SMSes to each other when incoming appears. It now appears that this is being destroyed - by people like you exploiting other players' good-will.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mek
sure it was a pretty low thing to do, but i will do anything to protect my roids...at the end of the day its pretty similar to sending fake recall mails, your lying on both...they are just 2 different ways of getting them to the user.
As JBG said, anything?

It's different because the PA in-game mail system is part of the game - and so players can expect other players to attempt to deceive them. However, SMS numbers are a private matter made available as a matter of trust - trusting the other players. There's a clear distinction, one that you're obviously willing to ignore to protect your roids - for no decent reason.
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Unread 24 Nov 2006, 14:11   #43
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Re: The rules for being a player, as stated by me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AdmV0rl0n
Off course, we then end up expressing semantics of wether this fits the exact terms of 'farm' care of the EULA. I never actually started this thread to get into an argument about the semantics of the EULA, and indeed Phil was right in his first comment, the problem is deeper tahn that discussion, its down to how people play, what orders they are issuning, and what orders are being followed....
OK, I see your point about semantics. However, there is an accepted usage of the word 'farm' which everyone else adheres to. You simply can't invent your own meanings for words, at least not if you want to have a proper debate with anyone. You seem annoyed that everyone else is focussing on the semantics rather than the issue itself, but you caused this by incorrectly using the word 'farm' to begin with. You keep saying that 'IMHO...' certain facts obtain, but this is only your opinion and your opinion appears to run contrary to majority opinion. In particular, 'abuse' and 'farming' are terms defined in written rules; there is no room for opinion here. You are either right or wrong, and on this matter you are wrong.

So, having established that what is happening is not 'farming', can we establish that there is, nevertheless, something bad here?

Possibly. Certainly, it's bad that your galaxy are encouraging people to attack you. Bad for you, at least. But could you have prevented this? Perhaps you have offended your galaxy in some way; in which case, your best option is to talk to them about it. Believe it or not, most people playing Planetarion are not vindictive bastards who get enjoyment from wrecking other people's rounds for no personal gain. Talk to your gal.

I see from your signup date that you are a relatively new player. Not a newbie, but you don't have the experience that many others have. Some of us, for better or worse, have been playing PA (with varying levels of activity) for much of the last six years. I've seen good galaxies and bad galaxies, galaxies with friends and galaxies with people in extremely hostile alliances to my own. I've had rounds where I have barely lost a roid, and rounds where I have been amongst the most heavily roided planets in the universe. Here's my advice:

Getting upset over roid loss is pointless. The best players are those who simply do not care about lost roids. Your claim of 'abuse' seems to stem from the fact that you are upset over losing roids, but that kind of attitude holds you back as a player. PA, in its current incarnation, is much more about the ability to attack than it is to defend.

If someone is encouraging others to attack you, either make peace with them or retaliate. Stop thinking of yourself as a victim and start thinking of positive alternatives. Realise that if your galaxy is encouraging people to attack you, they are making a mistake. It's not abuse, but it is pretty stupid - they are alienating someone who may be able to defend them, or report their incoming. Make sure they know that you want a peaceful, profitable relationship within the galaxy; that you have their best interests at heart. You can't expect them to help you unless you're offering the same help to them.

Don't get upset. The first and most obvious sign of a newbie is to get upset and to rant at great length against perceived injustices. And if people think you're a newbie, they will think that you are neither particularly useful nor to be feared. You appear to be active enough (judging by your frequent forum posts) to play a useful role in a galaxy, so show some confidence in your own usefulness and your own abilities. People will respect you a lot more if you act with confidence and self-assurance (this is starting to sound a bit more like a self-help guide than a PA guide, but I suppose some of these things are universal truths). Tell your galaxy that you're disappointed by their tactics, but that it's ultimately their loss if they piss off a useful, active player.
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Unread 24 Nov 2006, 14:29   #44
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Re: The rules for being a player, as stated by me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ComradeRob
OK, I see your point about semantics. However, there is an accepted usage of the word 'farm' which everyone else adheres to. You simply can't invent your own meanings for words, at least not if you want to have a proper debate with anyone. You seem annoyed that everyone else is focussing on the semantics rather than the issue itself, but you caused this by incorrectly using the word 'farm' to begin with. You keep saying that 'IMHO...' certain facts obtain, but this is only your opinion and your opinion appears to run contrary to majority opinion. In particular, 'abuse' and 'farming' are terms defined in written rules; there is no room for opinion here. You are either right or wrong, and on this matter you are wrong.

So, having established that what is happening is not 'farming', can we establish that there is, nevertheless, something bad here?

Possibly. Certainly, it's bad that your galaxy are encouraging people to attack you. Bad for you, at least. But could you have prevented this? Perhaps you have offended your galaxy in some way; in which case, your best option is to talk to them about it. Believe it or not, most people playing Planetarion are not vindictive bastards who get enjoyment from wrecking other people's rounds for no personal gain. Talk to your gal.

I see from your signup date that you are a relatively new player. Not a newbie, but you don't have the experience that many others have. Some of us, for better or worse, have been playing PA (with varying levels of activity) for much of the last six years. I've seen good galaxies and bad galaxies, galaxies with friends and galaxies with people in extremely hostile alliances to my own. I've had rounds where I have barely lost a roid, and rounds where I have been amongst the most heavily roided planets in the universe. Here's my advice:

Getting upset over roid loss is pointless. The best players are those who simply do not care about lost roids. Your claim of 'abuse' seems to stem from the fact that you are upset over losing roids, but that kind of attitude holds you back as a player. PA, in its current incarnation, is much more about the ability to attack than it is to defend.

If someone is encouraging others to attack you, either make peace with them or retaliate. Stop thinking of yourself as a victim and start thinking of positive alternatives. Realise that if your galaxy is encouraging people to attack you, they are making a mistake. It's not abuse, but it is pretty stupid - they are alienating someone who may be able to defend them, or report their incoming. Make sure they know that you want a peaceful, profitable relationship within the galaxy; that you have their best interests at heart. You can't expect them to help you unless you're offering the same help to them.

Don't get upset. The first and most obvious sign of a newbie is to get upset and to rant at great length against perceived injustices. And if people think you're a newbie, they will think that you are neither particularly useful nor to be feared. You appear to be active enough (judging by your frequent forum posts) to play a useful role in a galaxy, so show some confidence in your own usefulness and your own abilities. People will respect you a lot more if you act with confidence and self-assurance (this is starting to sound a bit more like a self-help guide than a PA guide, but I suppose some of these things are universal truths). Tell your galaxy that you're disappointed by their tactics, but that it's ultimately their loss if they piss off a useful, active player.

1. I'm a nice Gal mate to have.
2. I've posted because of what I've seen. Its not about roid losses, or ship losses (you can wander over to sandmans, my history is easy enough to examine.), but rather more globally.
3. Before babbling about being a 6 year vet, you should have considered some things, things like the numbers leaving the game, and the lack of numbers coming into the game.

Fiery made a point, that being that instead of bitching, I should present answer's to the problem, and she is probably right.
Which probably puts me back to looking at Phil's early response, the issue is not so much rules, but players orders, taking orders, following orders, and the relative 'morality' I guess - in regard to that.

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Unread 24 Nov 2006, 15:02   #45
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Re: The rules for being a player, as stated by me.

The definition of a farm, and a cheater, is a person who has control over 2 accounts, or more. Where one fleet is always always escorting or one planet is of the two is picked clean for roids in a situation where one of the planets seems unactive and is unlikley to to get defence from gal m8s.
The same goes for a zik farming ships.

it is that simple guys. al other is dirty tactics, and then it just boils down to your own morale, and what u can live with.
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Unread 24 Nov 2006, 16:50   #46
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Re: The rules for being a player, as stated by me.

I got angry/upset here I sat reading this shit thread.

Well done to those who actually managed to make constructive answers to a guy which claims as all to be farms AND farmers

I have never had a problem with being in gal with others though, and got as a general rule to always report incs if I am on, even if we r at war with them.

But, u cant really whine if they dont, because its ur own job to be online to sort urself, and if not, then we got this feature called self exile...
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Quote:
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I would give me right testicle to be in a gal with you wishmaster!!! wonder if thatd be enough to bribe spinner with hmmmm
<JC`> i sent him a msg saying Wishmaster 0wns, so he recalled
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Unread 24 Nov 2006, 17:06   #47
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Re: The rules for being a player, as stated by me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wishmaster
I got angry/upset here I sat reading this shit thread.

Well done to those who actually managed to make constructive answers to a guy which claims as all to be farms AND farmers

I have never had a problem with being in gal with others though, and got as a general rule to always report incs if I am on, even if we r at war with them.

But, u cant really whine if they dont, because its ur own job to be online to sort urself, and if not, then we got this feature called self exile...
-----

I never said that, others concluded that, if you have issues with THEIR conclusions, take that up with them.

As for the rest of your answer, I noted you did'nt call in your alliance on them, + did not work in gal to make sure they were screwed, + and you would report the incs, even at war. So, if it makes you feel better, You seem ok, unlike the slime I started this thread talking about.

As for it being your job to be online and sort yourself out, that is true. And yes, you could self exile. Both valid points. to varying degrees.

Before anyone else gets all upset and posts responses to things I *did'nt say*, read the damn thread carefully.
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Unread 24 Nov 2006, 17:18   #48
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Re: The rules for being a player, as stated by me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AdmV0rl0n
1. Gal members calling in their alliance to hammer other gal members in their own gals.

Thats a form of farming for your alliance RIGHT there. Sure the target is a none voluntary farm, but that is irrelevant.

2. Gal members supplying inside gal information to their alliance. (Hint, if that info was meant to be outside, the game screens would provide the facility.)

Again, helping your alliance farm a gal, is just another method of cheating.
ehm.

U said it, others might have lead u into saying it and u didnt mean to post that when u started the thread, yet there it is.

Edit.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Newt
I would give me right testicle to be in a gal with you wishmaster!!! wonder if thatd be enough to bribe spinner with hmmmm
<JC`> i sent him a msg saying Wishmaster 0wns, so he recalled
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Unread 24 Nov 2006, 17:44   #49
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Re: The rules for being a player, as stated by me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mek
if you dont want your sms used dont give it out...its that simple.

sure it was a pretty low thing to do, but i will do anything to protect my roids...at the end of the day its pretty similar to sending fake recall mails, your lying on both...they are just 2 different ways of getting them to the user.
why not just get good at the game, then you wouldn't need all this low hand bullshit for your precious rank!

by the way jbg mek was i believe, in that gal that backstabbed ours in the world cup before we subsequently murdered them for hours on end (before going on to win of course)
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Unread 24 Nov 2006, 18:17   #50
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Re: The rules for being a player, as stated by me.

shouldn't you be supermarketing
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