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Unread 24 Jan 2008, 17:52   #101
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Re: The portal (again)

Kal, have you considered getting the users to create the manual through a wiki?

PA Wiki is very successful (or it was the last time I checked).
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Unread 24 Jan 2008, 17:53   #102
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Re: The portal (again)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mit
The biggest thing missing (from a new user attracting point of view) imo is something like the big graphic i put on my sample design http://tim.igoe.me.uk/files/Planetarion.png
You don't need that big left frame with the username/password. You've already got a little login at the top of the page.
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Unread 24 Jan 2008, 18:01   #103
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Re: The portal (again)

PA Wiki, a nice idea, it needs the users help to make it work

I moved it from teh top to the left, and saved out a copy with both on by mistake

Ignoring the minor details like that, it was only ever ment as a sample of what COULD be done if I was given the contract to redevelop the passport / portal.

[edit]
I had a lot more ideas that I showed on that quick mockup, things that i'd done previously with tools for one, more community based aspects for another - list can go on.
[/edit]
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Unread 24 Jan 2008, 18:11   #104
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Re: The portal (again)

Pa Wiki hasn't been updated much in best part of the last year
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Unread 25 Jan 2008, 13:09   #105
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Re: The portal (again)

neither has the manual
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Unread 25 Jan 2008, 13:20   #106
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Re: The portal (again)

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Originally Posted by Smudge
neither has the manual
I've updated it several times this year, and rewritten / added pieces on the portal version (which we'll eventually transfer over to perminantly).

I know you like throwing rocks at us, but please make sure there's something to hit first Smudge
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Unread 25 Jan 2008, 14:10   #107
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Re: The portal (again)

The portal manual is awful to navigate, it needs serious improvements.

I know the existing manual isn't perfect for readability (pages and pages of text, ugh), but at least it's reasonably easy to navigate and is fairly logical. At 1280x1024 resolution I had to scroll down an entire page just to see the links for the "In-Game Manual" section.

It feels like the manual is less accessible than it was before.
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Unread 25 Jan 2008, 21:15   #108
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Re: The portal (again)

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Originally Posted by GReaper
The portal manual is awful to navigate, it needs serious improvements.

I know the existing manual isn't perfect for readability (pages and pages of text, ugh), but at least it's reasonably easy to navigate and is fairly logical. At 1280x1024 resolution I had to scroll down an entire page just to see the links for the "In-Game Manual" section.

It feels like the manual is less accessible than it was before.
I agree the manual is not good, but i think the portal as a whole still needs a lot of work - not just the manual.

Having just created an account for the first time since rnd 11 I'm actually surprised, its not easy as a "beginner" to see what your suppose to do.
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Unread 8 Mar 2008, 05:12   #109
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Re: The portal (again)

Sorry to bump this yet again, but any chance of some news updates which are slightly less boring and more community based?

At the moment it feels as if only a few events get news. Start of the round announcement, end of the round announcement, end of round IRC log, a few speedgame announcements, etc. It's predictable, boring and we all know what to expect from each news announcement.

This is a news site which both players and potential players are visiting. You should be reaching out to people and trying to make the game look interesting, if the content is boring and worthless then nobody is going to want to visit it. People need to be interested enough to have a reason to come back, I doubt many would feel that anything on the current site is particularly interesting.

It's nice to see that it's getting some updates, but it needs improvements.
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Unread 8 Mar 2008, 12:35   #110
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Re: The portal (again)

Quote:
Originally Posted by GReaper
Sorry to bump this yet again, but any chance of some news updates which are slightly less boring and more community based?

At the moment it feels as if only a few events get news. Start of the round announcement, end of the round announcement, end of round IRC log, a few speedgame announcements, etc. It's predictable, boring and we all know what to expect from each news announcement.

This is a news site which both players and potential players are visiting. You should be reaching out to people and trying to make the game look interesting, if the content is boring and worthless then nobody is going to want to visit it. People need to be interested enough to have a reason to come back, I doubt many would feel that anything on the current site is particularly interesting.

It's nice to see that it's getting some updates, but it needs improvements.
I have coded a part that is meant for "player contributions" much like the columns the old portal had, it's sadly still undergoing testing and the articles/columns is having a read through. I'd liked to have this public quite a long time ago, but it's rather clear that hasn't happened.

If ppl are interested in contributing and writing stuff, plz contact me, ofc there isn't much to contribute on yet, but hopefully it wont be too long.
Famous last words and all that...
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Unread 8 Mar 2008, 15:13   #111
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Re: The portal (again)

I'm not talking about trying to pass the job onto other people trying to keep people interested. Most columnists tend to write irrelevant crap and lose interest within a month. I really don't want to read about Fiery's personal life.

What I'm expecting is a community manager or portal manager (call it what you want) to have some enthusiasm to maintain it and update it. Wasn't someone else supposed to be the manager for it? At the moment it seems like a couple of coders trying to fill in the gaps to make sure the site doesn't end up dead.
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Unread 8 Mar 2008, 15:26   #112
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Re: The portal (again)

The portal columns were a place where players (which in most cases where part of a "news team") wrote about various game related things, why is such a thing a bad idea?
what you're talking about in regards to fiery was the blogs, which is NOT the same thing.
This has nothing to do with "passing the job on", it's about allowing the community to contribute, which should be seen as a good thing, and is the way everything around pa works.
Those contributing will be as much a part of a team as anyone in the support team or any other team.
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Unread 8 Mar 2008, 15:58   #113
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Re: The portal (again)

But cin, what I think GReaper is trying to get at, is more content from 'the team and those with the power'. ie. whats going on with development, what new features / changes etc. More than just 'round starts', 'round ends'
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Unread 8 Mar 2008, 16:33   #114
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Re: The portal (again)

and that sort of thing will come as well, in a more of a "development blog" kind of thing, but first there has to be a system for it, which means it has to be coded, there also has to be something to write about.
And one important thing with "announcing" new features etc is that we really don't want another PAN.
What ppl need to understand that there isn't really a issue of what, but more one of time to get it all done, there are quite a few pieces that has to fall into place and all of it requires time. If all my time went into the portal it'd gone faster, but as it stands, most of it goes to sorting other things which has to get done as well.

Atm patience is one thing that is need, and i'm fully aware that the portal has been one of those things that has repeatedly failed, but i am working on making sure this one doesn't.
I'd rather spent a bit more time on "parts" for it and make sure they work etc, than just rushing it so it "out there" and get stuck with 50 semi working things which has a bunch of loose ends.
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Unread 8 Mar 2008, 17:14   #115
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Re: The portal (again)

Who is managing this portal anyway?
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Unread 8 Mar 2008, 17:23   #116
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Re: The portal (again)

atm it's me
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Unread 9 Mar 2008, 01:34   #117
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Re: The portal (again)

Mit has pointed out what I see as one of the problems.

I'm not entirely convinced that trying to get a team of volunteers is what the portal needs. It needs fresh news, updates and thoughts/opinions from people with some authority, instead of being second hand news by someone who is just a minion of the people in charge.

Also if you can't dedicate all your time into getting this thing done then get extra help. I know it's not the only thing that you're working on, but it really shouldn't take that long to sort out unless you're doing an entire content management system from scratch.
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Unread 9 Mar 2008, 01:47   #118
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Re: The portal (again)

Quote:
Originally Posted by GReaper
Also if you can't dedicate all your time into getting this thing done then get extra help. I know it's not the only thing that you're working on, but it really shouldn't take that long to sort out unless you're doing an entire content management system from scratch.
And you think the portal is what?
everything is coded from scratch, it isn't "built" on any existing system, so yes, that would be exactly what i'm doing.
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Unread 9 Mar 2008, 09:51   #119
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Re: The portal (again)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cincinnatus
And you think the portal is what?
The biggest waste of time ever? One of the slowest Planetarion projects? A project being lead by people who are unsure what people really want

Using some sort of framework could've cut a massive amount of time spent on it. It seriously sounds like a case of "not invented here" syndrome. All the effort and custom code should go into the game and not the portal.

I think you've forgotten the two most important things, usability and content. I'm sure people would've been happy to see you use some code which already exists and concentrate on the stuff that matters (content/design) instead of wasting so much time reinventing the wheel.
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Unread 9 Mar 2008, 11:45   #120
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Re: The portal (again)

I wouldn't waste your time Greaper. Cin is typical of a PAteam member in that they comes in think they are great and that they can solve all the past issues but have no clue on whats gone on before they got their position and as such starts down the exact same path as everyone else. They simply wont be told by anyone that what they are doing is the same thats been done before and just plough on making the same mistakes.

The game needs someone strong to be dictating whats going to be done, thats supposed to be Appoc but he is showing that he probally isnt the man for the job. He needs to either step up or step aside really because without someone with a grand vision and someone who sticks to that grand vision and isnt swayed and someone who knows the past mistakes and ensures his team dont waste time making them again, then this game is doomed

As for cin recoding the portal, in itself thats not a bad thing if it finally produces a portal base that has a long term future. However wasting time on modules such as columns for players which have over and over again shown to be a masive failure is just taking the piss.
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Unread 9 Mar 2008, 12:28   #121
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Re: The portal (again)

Quote:
Originally Posted by GReaper
The biggest waste of time ever? One of the slowest Planetarion projects? A project being lead by people who are unsure what people really want

Using some sort of framework could've cut a massive amount of time spent on it. It seriously sounds like a case of "not invented here" syndrome. All the effort and custom code should go into the game and not the portal.

I think you've forgotten the two most important things, usability and content. I'm sure people would've been happy to see you use some code which already exists and concentrate on the stuff that matters (content/design) instead of wasting so much time reinventing the wheel.
The thing is that if we were using a existing thing, even just a framework, we'd have to know exactly how that worked, we'd still have to customize 90% of the code to make it work with the things we need/want and it's unlikely to be any faster.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wakey
As for cin recoding the portal, in itself thats not a bad thing if it finally produces a portal base that has a long term future. However wasting time on modules such as columns for players which have over and over again shown to be a masive failure is just taking the piss.
I agree that the columns might not be the best thing to spend time on, but it's really not something taking a lot of time to sort. What has been taking time about them is those going over existing ones to see which we keep, how to "group" them etc, a job i were hoping to avoid doing myself cause it would save time, it's for some reason time really long though.
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Unread 9 Mar 2008, 12:35   #122
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Re: The portal (again)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cincinnatus
The thing is that if we were using a existing thing, even just a framework, we'd have to know exactly how that worked, we'd still have to customize 90% of the code to make it work with the things we need/want and it's unlikely to be any faster.
I hope your fully documenting the new code base so when you quit next round and someone else has to come in they have a full development documentation to refer to so they don't have to recode it

Quote:
I agree that the columns might not be the best thing to spend time on, but it's really not something taking a lot of time to sort. What has been taking time about them is those going over existing ones to see which we keep, how to "group" them etc, a job i were hoping to avoid doing myself cause it would save time, it's for some reason time really long though.
You shouldn't even be wasting your time on deciding which ones to keep, we do not need columns as they bring nothing to the game. They just make the community look shallow and inactive and when they stray off PA as they inevitably do as people run out of things to write about after the first few it makes it look like the game has nothing interesting to write about
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Unread 13 Mar 2008, 05:15   #123
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Re: The portal (again)

Quote:
Originally Posted by wakey
I wouldn't waste your time Greaper. Cin is typical of a PAteam member in that they comes in think they are great and that they can solve all the past issues but have no clue on whats gone on before they got their position and as such starts down the exact same path as everyone else. They simply wont be told by anyone that what they are doing is the same thats been done before and just plough on making the same mistakes.
It's quite amusing seeing similar mistakes being made with every generation of the portal. Unless there is something worth reading, all the effort being put into this generation of the portal is a complete waste of time.

I've posted various bits of advice many times in the past couple of years in the hope that some future generation of the portal would end up being fairly decent. Just take a look through some of the threads and there's plenty of thoughts from various people. Very little of it seems to be taken on board.

Until PA Team gets someone with clue about how to build and maintain a decent website which people want to visit then it's pointless. Whilst I'm sure we appreciate the effort that's being put in, it's pointless having someone build yet another site to get bored of it.
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