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Unread 6 Aug 2003, 15:11   #1
Flayer
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after the US, the EU threatens Microsoft too

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/3128621.stm

realplayer and quicktime are ****, but i still think it's good news
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Unread 6 Aug 2003, 17:02   #2
MrL_JaKiri
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Why is it good news? Windows media player is one of the best ones out there; apart from proprietry file types I use it and Power DVD for everything. It's not as if they're FORCING you to use it. It also means that people HAVE to be online, when many aren't; what's the point of getting DVDs for your PC if you can't play DVDs on it?

On one level, forcing them to remove WMP is a break of Law about Products having to be able to be used for the purpose intended.
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Unread 6 Aug 2003, 17:38   #3
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everything that reduces the market-power of microsoft is a good news.
anyway, as far as i know windows media player isnt able to play dvds, you will still need power dvd. and that usually comes for free with your dvd-rom.
they try to make you use their media player, their browser, their cd-burning software, everything. bill gates is the evil because he tryes to reach world domination
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Unread 6 Aug 2003, 17:43   #4
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What version of WMP are YOU using? Both 8 and 9 play DVDs, and I've never known Power DVD to come with a new computer.
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Unread 6 Aug 2003, 17:45   #5
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I got power DVD with mine. Although I bought it in bits and im not sure which bit it came with. Id assume, the CD drive, but im really not sure.

The other DVD drive we got didnt come with any software at all as I recall. I guess it varies.
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Unread 6 Aug 2003, 17:50   #6
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whatever version comes with windows xp.
and im certain that they are sold with almost every new computer in this country (and dvd-rom aswell)
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Unread 6 Aug 2003, 17:56   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by wu_trax
whatever version comes with windows xp.
and im certain that they are sold with almost every new computer in this country (and dvd-rom aswell)
WMP 8 that would be. That plays DVDs.

[edit]

It plays dvds on all the versions I've used, and Power DVD hasn't been installed on any of the premade PCs I've used (except when someone installed it later)
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Unread 6 Aug 2003, 20:26   #8
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The only thing I hate about the whole thing is the fact that no one, and I mean, NO ONE has produced anything viable to touch microsoft in many ways. (before you linux geeks get going, 95% of computer users don't have the knowledge to use it and it's lack of product support makes it unacceptable to most)

Nail microsoft for being shifty in the business world, but don't nail them when they have a clearly superior product.
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Unread 6 Aug 2003, 20:37   #9
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Exclamation

Quote:
Originally posted by Sandsnake
Nail microsoft for being shifty in the business world, but don't nail them when they have a clearly superior product.
If Microsoft has a clearly superior product then they obviously cheated somehow to get it. Ergo, they must be punished.
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Unread 6 Aug 2003, 20:38   #10
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Re: after the US, the EU threatens Microsoft too

Ever tried BeOS or Mac OS X, Sandsnake?

Quote:
Originally posted by Flayer
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/3128621.stm

realplayer and quicktime are ****, but i still think it's good news
Why? These injuctions never work. It's terrible to see how corrupt and stupid these cases are. Microsoft vs. the EU, Apple, and Real is evil **** vs. a bunch of evil ****.
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Unread 6 Aug 2003, 20:40   #11
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So because they include Windows Media Player with Windows they're evil?
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Unread 6 Aug 2003, 20:48   #12
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Re: Re: after the US, the EU threatens Microsoft too

Quote:
Originally posted by queball
Ever tried BeOS or Mac OS X, Sandsnake?
Max OS X isn't as good as Windows XP from my experience.
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Unread 6 Aug 2003, 20:49   #13
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Best way to hurt microsoft etc is not to impose new anti-monopoly laws. Microsoft is not the cause of the problem, nor are they doing anything wrong, they're just trying their best to exploit the situation to make money.

One must attack the source. Royalties. Information ownership. Without it, microsoft would only be paid for actual innovation, and anyone and everyone could compete on an equal basis.
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Unread 6 Aug 2003, 21:03   #14
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Re: Re: after the US, the EU threatens Microsoft too

Quote:
Originally posted by queball
Ever tried BeOS or Mac OS X, Sandsnake?
I would rather shoot myself in the foot repeatedly than use a Mac. Overpriced, purely proprietary hardware, and a much smaller product base (admittedly growing). Mac simply doesn't hold any advantage over the PC market in concerns to flexibility, price, or power.

oh, and that ****ING ONE BUTTON MOUSE REALLY GETS ON MY NERVES.
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Unread 6 Aug 2003, 21:40   #15
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Micro$oft lol


(the '$' is because they are rich but suck lol)
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Unread 6 Aug 2003, 21:46   #16
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In other news Intel will start including advertisements for AMD chips in all of their product packaging to make things more fair to the little guys!
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Unread 6 Aug 2003, 21:48   #17
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AMD chips are better than Intel ones though?
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Unread 6 Aug 2003, 22:06   #18
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Depends on who you talk to =P Straight out of the box the P4's own the equivalent AMD processors. AMD has given them a good run for a while and are still the better bargain if you don't mind taking a bit of a hit in performance.

I didn't mean to start any intel vs amd flame wars though... I just think it's incredibly stupid for anyone to try and make Microsoft advertise for their competitors.
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Unread 6 Aug 2003, 22:35   #19
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I hear Apple are getting sued for abusive monopoly too oh wait they arent successful so we dont hate them
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Unread 6 Aug 2003, 22:37   #20
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but the thing is real and apple make you pay them to use their versions with all the features while with wmp everything on it you can use.
if real and apple made their best version free then im sure more people would use it.
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Unread 6 Aug 2003, 22:38   #21
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I wouldn't. Quicktime and Real Player are both irritating.
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Unread 6 Aug 2003, 22:39   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by cookiemay
but the thing is real and apple make you pay them to use their versions with all the features while with wmp everything on it you can use.
if real and apple made their best version free then im sure more people would use it.
I doubt it, given it would still be atrocious software.
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Unread 6 Aug 2003, 22:47   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by MrL_JaKiri
What version of WMP are YOU using? Both 8 and 9 play DVDs, and I've never known Power DVD to come with a new computer.
I got PowerDVD(pre-loaded) with my new computer
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Unread 6 Aug 2003, 22:47   #24
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See, the way I see it is Microsoft have already complied for competition purposes. With the release of SP1 for Windows XP and SP3 for Windows 2000, they have given you the option to hide and turn off windows features. True, this may be a fairly weak compromise, but the option is there to hide it to use an alternative.

Personally I hate Realplayer with a passion and Quicktime is a Mac standard so dont they already dominate another market?
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Unread 6 Aug 2003, 22:53   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dilly_D
I got PowerDVD(pre-loaded) with my new computer
You are one of the fortunate ones.
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Unread 6 Aug 2003, 23:09   #26
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That's the other thing that really bugs me about this.... the versions of RealPlayer, Quicktime, and Windows Media Player that almost everyone uses are the free ones (including the version of Windows Media Player that comes with Windows). Basically this European commission has a problem with them having a monopoly on a product that they don't directly earn any money from? Sure there's the premium versions of Windows Media Player, Quicktime, and RealPlayer but you still have to download extra stuff regardless of which one you use. What a bunch of asshats.
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Unread 6 Aug 2003, 23:11   #27
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The new winamp has the ability to play mpegs etc, and it works fine. Use that!
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Unread 6 Aug 2003, 23:31   #28
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Quote:
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The new winamp has the ability to play mpegs etc, and it works fine. Use that!
It's NOT AS GOOD though!
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Unread 6 Aug 2003, 23:34   #29
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Originally posted by huh
The new winamp has the ability to play mpegs etc, and it works fine. Use that!
even winap 2.91 plays videos.
they should have never released version 3.

Also now you dont need to have real installed to .rm or .ram files theres a program that does it now throught windows media classic player.
and you can get the quicktime codecs
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Unread 6 Aug 2003, 23:37   #30
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I hear Apple are getting sued for abusive monopoly too oh wait they arent successful so we dont hate them
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Unread 6 Aug 2003, 23:46   #31
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Originally posted by MrL_JaKiri
It's NOT AS GOOD though!
Why? It's a lot faster and easy to use, and it uses the plug-ins from winamp with it (e.g. DFX)
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Unread 6 Aug 2003, 23:49   #32
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Quote:
Originally posted by huh
Why? It's a lot faster and easy to use, and it uses the plug-ins from winamp with it (e.g. DFX)
Why does SPEED matter in a player? It's not like they require much system res.

As for DFX etc, you can get those for WMP too.
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Unread 7 Aug 2003, 00:03   #33
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You obviously don't live by the "faster=better" maxim!
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Unread 7 Aug 2003, 00:10   #34
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winamp is all you need for playing mp3 files as it clearly rocks
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Unread 7 Aug 2003, 00:14   #35
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Quote:
Originally posted by huh
You obviously don't live by the "faster=better" maxim!
i tried telling my last girlfriend that but she wasnt having any of it
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Unread 7 Aug 2003, 00:18   #36
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Originally posted by W

One must attack the source. Royalties. Information ownership. Without it, microsoft would only be paid for actual innovation, and anyone and everyone could compete on an equal basis.
If you concede the facts that:

1)Corporations derive the majority of their capital from 'intellectual property'.
2)Corporations hold the majority percentage of political power.

Then it becomes clear that no major government will allow a judge in its jurisdiction to make such a ruling. I think copyright and it's resultant spin-offs are basicaly a pre-requisite of the society we live in today.
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Unread 7 Aug 2003, 00:33   #37
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Quote:
Originally posted by Erkenbrand
If you concede the facts that:

1)Corporations derive the majority of their capital from 'intellectual property'.
2)Corporations hold the majority percentage of political power.

Then it becomes clear that no major government will allow a judge in its jurisdiction to make such a ruling. I think copyright and it's resultant spin-offs are basicaly a pre-requisite of the society we live in today.
But neither is true. And even if it were true, you'd have to add a 3)that they knew about 1) and 2), which imo wouldn't be very likely.
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Unread 7 Aug 2003, 00:39   #38
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"The Commission either wants Microsoft to offer a version of Windows without its own media player attached, or offer rival services within its Windows package"

Funny that - Mac OS X comes with Quicktime included and I don't see them getting shouted at.
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Unread 7 Aug 2003, 00:51   #39
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whats the market share of apple (and its relevance) then?
dont you think it would be a good idea to start with the biggest one first?
this case also is about microssoft using its dominant position in the desktop-sector to gain market share in the smaller server market. unfortunatly thats all i know about that, so it would be really nice if anyone could tell me a little more about what exactly ms did (or did not)
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Unread 7 Aug 2003, 01:02   #40
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Quote:
Originally posted by wu_trax
whats the market share of apple (and its relevance) then?
That's not really the point - I don't see how they can ask Microsoft to stop doing something, then allow its competitors to carry on doing so.
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Unread 7 Aug 2003, 01:02   #41
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Quote:
Originally posted by wu_trax
whats the market share of apple (and its relevance) then?
In which market?
Quote:
dont you think it would be a good idea to start with the biggest one first?
this case also is about microssoft using its dominant position in the desktop-sector to gain market share in the smaller server market. unfortunatly thats all i know about that, so it would be really nice if anyone could tell me a little more about what exactly ms did (or did not)
try http://europa.eu.int/rapid/start/cgi...7CRAPID&lg=EN;

The clients and servers go together;
Windows Media Player and Windows Media Services
Quicktime and Quicktime Streaming Server
RealOne Player and RealServer

Afaics, the prosecution have imagined up a market in each particular server software and so decided bundling WMP is somehow "unfair" in two identical ways.
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Unread 7 Aug 2003, 01:22   #42
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MS hasn't done a thing except include a free program on their windows installation discs. The amusing part of the entire situation is that apple/mac holds a huge share of the market when it comes to graphics, video, and sound editing. I would assume that if you actually paid for one of the premium versions of wmp, quicktime, or realplayer that you would be doing one of the above things anyways so I think it's time to force apple to include wmp on all macs!
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Unread 7 Aug 2003, 01:50   #43
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Originally posted by W
But neither is true. And even if it were true, you'd have to add a 3)that they knew about 1) and 2), which imo wouldn't be very likely.
I entirely fail to see how you dismiss the two, but anyway, point three would be an obvious off-shoot of point two. Governments are aware of corporate power due to corporations holding so much power. It would only take a few minutes research in a patent office to establish point one.
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