Powah blocking

[G.K Zhukov]

Germania, you know what weed does to your long term memory?

(If you havent smoked alot of weed lately, try to write something that atleast sounds like could posibly be true)

[Petru]

Originally posted by logbat
My view on this now is that you was one of the main men that actually made this happen and thats going to be bad blood for the rest of this round cuzz of that and once the split come,quess what block i will vote for to start humping!

You actually couldn't be further from the truth if you actually did some research on decisions leading up to this round.

Again, I'm not shifting blame, I stand by the decisions made, but I wasn't remotely involved in decisions until about tick 14 of this round.

"Inactive Petal" was rife.

[K-W]

Originally posted by Scouse
Would you pl.... pl.... pl.... pl.... pl...


Sorry. The record got stuck, and it won't stop saying the same thing over and over again.

I didnt bring up rd7 this time I promise.

[Hardin]

Originally posted by Petru
(I still don't hold the opinion this war is as decided as everyone claims it is).

ofc you will say that as its in ur interest to see VOM as dead as possible and u don't want NARSWEET coalition to break up until it has achieved that goal!

Same as I will say that unless the excessive NARSWEET block (edit err... coalition I mean) breaks up soon we will have stagnation!

Yes it is 2 blocks vs 1 atm which u say makes it like R6...

...but the second block can hardly be neutral when it shares many gals with WEET and very few (if any) with VOM. Maybe they still can changes sides but u have to agree it certainly limits their freedom of movement?

As I said above the reason R6 was interesting was because the third block had flexibility and changed allegiance before anyone got a massive dominance...

...that is all I want to encourage here before VOM is dead and the universe stagnates...

Anyway I am getting as tired of this 'twoddle' as you!

We will just have to agree that we disagree... I am sure people can make up their own minds anyway...

[K-W]

Originally posted by Hardin
Well if you had really wanted a fair fight you could have arranged Fury/WP vs VTS/Ely...that was the one people wanted at the time! Instead u gave ur ally WP up to VTS and VTS gave up their ally Ely up to you! And as to why Ely performed so badly some of it may have been because their many members in VTS gals were not allowed to defend other Ely members for risk of losing their gals protection from Fury...

HIndsight is 20/20 Hardin. But I forget, Fury were psychics and responsible for knowing the future. Fury attacked elysium with the sole reason of stopping stagnation. Maybe we could have done it better. God forbid we try to do something right. But no, everything is wrong. If Fury tried to stop stagnation they were backstabbers, if they didnt they were dominators. Its nice to be evil no matter what you do. If wed turned on Vts, whos to say one of the sides wouldnt have had problems and gotten crushed? You dont know, I dont know. But of course you pretend to know.

Originally posted by Hardin

Mate...u certainly need to look at your history books... Xeta didnt exist in R7 Xeta was in R6 - It was NewX/WenX that was around in R7.

Yes, because I mistyped an acronym I dont know my history. Thats about as good a point as correcting spelling.

Originally posted by Hardin

As someone who was paying attention at that time I can certainly remember that FLVTT spent way way too long bashing and then farming NEWX to the point that even Fury members were getting bored.

Yah there was a period of stagnation, but unlike rounds before it, it ended. During that period we were desperately trying to find a solution to stagnation that didnt involve backsabbing. Fury approached all its allies asking if they would be willing to go into a fun war within the block. I bet you didnt know that. We got mixed responses, but overall not enough agreement for it to happen. Nah, that cant be true, Fury were evil stagnators, they must have wanted it to stay that way.

Originally posted by Hardin

FLVTT eventually fell apart (after the rest of the uni had been bored to death). There then followed a little inter FLVTT war which I seem to remember was also one sided at the time but only involved FLVTT and some of the Bull/LDK gals who had managed to stay alive thx to gigantic FI fleets! The rest of the uni was intensely bored!

One sided? The fang vs Legion and Virus war was a actually a fairly fun one. Titans didnt fair as well against Fury, but it had its fun moments too. Im sorry if the rest of the Uni couldnt have fun without the top levels. At that point much of the uni was well below the cap limits and should have been free to have wars and thier own political stuff. It certainly isnt our fault that they decided to be bored instead. There will always be people with very high scores and people with very low scores at the end of a round. If the people with low scores decide to be bored by that, nothing can fix that. This game is competitive, that has nothing to do with alliances.

Once again, nothing we do is good enough, and everything wrong is our fault. You are not being in the least bit fair or even attempting t take a non biased view of things.

[Hardin]

Originally posted by K-W

You are not being in the least bit fair or even attempting t take a non biased view of things.

I cud say the same about you but I am getting tired of this

All I hope is that NARSWEET breaks up sooner rather than later for the good of this round... I know you disagree with that being good for this round...but it is what I honestly believe...

I am gonna try and restrain my posting now

[Cothaniel]

Hardin give up. 90% of the PA population can only see as far as their next set of new roids.

I have met preciously few people that honestly care about stagnation before it sets in. In my experience the average player will jump at any chance to increase his or her odds. And go to great length to deny this to themselves.

I believe (read that twice) that the motivation for forming vom the way it was formed was genuinely for the good of pa.

In my opinion (read that twice) the galaxy setup is the biggest sign that there was an honest attempt to restrict blocking options. I personally believe (read that twice) that this is why WebAngel quit - vom left chinks in its armor (to my knowledge the first time it has been done) but the response from the universe was not to do the same, just to slide the sword in. A vision killed (pardon the pun).

Granted, the majority of the vom memberbase probably went with it hoping that it was a good way to win, see my initial statement.

In restrospect, it was probably naive of the vom HC to expect any other reaction other than "see weakness - exploit weakness".

I am vom, and I have no intention whatsoever to give in. The people are nice, and giving up never was my style. I know a lot of vom feel the same, so keep it coming Those of us that stick with it through the fire will come out the other side so much stronger - catch you in r10

Oh, I almost forgot...

j00 cubbardly n00bs, oi, argh, teh ODDS fs. Wajn wajn. It's all j00 fault <points finger>. Lies! Jerk! Im quitting!

hehe..obligatory =)

See you on the battlefield.

[RooKie]

Originally posted by Petru
I don't actually know which alliance you are with hAl, but by the sounds of it one that does not wish to be involved with the Narweet/vvomm war?

If so, the situation you describe is not a result of the war, it's a result of private galaxies in my opinion. Round 8 saw several alliances go solo ("large" and "small"), and survive the round with minimal incoming. Why? Because galaxy trust was that little, members had to attack with their alliance, and so got allocated hostile targets only.

As a result, those not fighting simply weren't targetted.

The return to private galaxies has seen the return of "lazy roiding". If a block has 100 galaxies to it's name, you can guarantee half of those are hitting random galaxies day in day out for easy roids instead of hitting hostiles allocated by their HC.

This at least, is the fault of Private over Random, not blocks.

VOM had a clear policy on this: Do not hit NAR or RANDOM gals. We didnt even give members arbiter check to ensure this. Everyone had to get targets from a BC.

Private gals isnt the problem, lack of ethics and alliance loyalty is.

Thou I would much prefer a random universe.

[RooKie]

Originally posted by K-W
Well at least we are getting at the truth here.

The issue isnt the game, it isnt stagnation, its that vom dont like getting roided. But I guess when they get roided it is a travesty for the game. We must all cry for them.

"Yes but after you kill us we are sure that what you do next will cause stagnation fast"
Can it get anymore contrived than this? Seriously, I wish I were as much a psychic as so many Vom people seem to be.

The simple fact is, none of these things have occured and you are asking us to be embarassed because they did occur. They havent occured.

Why should we be ashamed, and the PA community be outraged by things that happened in your imaginations. Last time I checked your delusions were mostly your business.

The facts are this.
*We arent stagnated
*Its only been a week
*There are 3 blocks
*There is no reason to think that 2 of the three blocks are one block now

Other than the fact that vom just dont like the odds atm, why all the fuss?

1. Stagnation is already here, u just wont admit it. Getting that the first week after protection should tell you that you did something wrong.

2. Most NARWEET HC admit that there is currently NARWEET and that u book targets together. Stop this nonsense trying to refuse this.

[RooKie]

Originally posted by K-W
ITS BEEN ONE WEEK FOR GOODNESS SAKE

That is the essence of the argument against you.

TOO BIG - TOO FAST!!!!

[RooKie]

Originally posted by K-W
And since when was rd 7 boring? How long have you played this game? Rd7 saw a pretty good war between xeta and fltv, some stagnation, then a political free for all and new wars. Thats a good round where I come from.

Thats just bollocks, that was never an even war. Xanadu (my alliance) never had any def for my gal as we were totally run over, and my gal was top gal hitting other top gals.

The winning galaxy that round had incoming 3 times I think while mine had atleast incoming once every night for a month.

But atleast NewX could survive untill one month was gone.

[Norseman]

Originally posted by Cothaniel


I believe (read that twice) that the motivation for forming vom the way it was formed was genuinely for the good of pa.

if such was the case, then you clearly should have made a bigger number out of it.

Was any attempt made to reach a fellow understanding with the major alliances outside vom?

A meeting where some golden ethic rules could have been agreed upon, where arguments could have been both raised and solved..and a chance to make a joint effort for the good of planetarion

or.. was this nobel effort of yours, just something which happened to exist between the walls of vom...where noone bothered to involve the rest of the universe?

[K-W]

Originally posted by Hardin
I cud say the same about you but I am getting tired of this

All I hope is that NARSWEET breaks up sooner rather than later for the good of this round... I know you disagree with that being good for this round...but it is what I honestly believe...

I am gonna try and restrain my posting now

Well I have to question your reading if you think I am against NAR and weet breaking up. I hate stagnation as much as you do, but that fact is that we are not yet in stagnation.

[K-W]

Originally posted by RooKie
1. Stagnation is already here, u just wont admit it. Getting that the first week after protection should tell you that you did something wrong.

2. Most NARWEET HC admit that there is currently NARWEET and that u book targets together. Stop this nonsense trying to refuse this.

1. No its not, this is either your first round, or you arent paying any attentiont to it if you think that is the case. Either that or youve decided to redifine stagnation. Either way, get with the program.

2. No, actually NONE of them admit that because it isnt true. Are you tripping on mushrooms?

Originally posted by RooKie
Thats just bollocks, that was never an even war. Xanadu (my alliance) never had any def for my gal as we were totally run over, and my gal was top gal hitting other top gals.

The winning galaxy that round had incoming 3 times I think while mine had atleast incoming once every night for a month.

But atleast NewX could survive untill one month was gone.

Wow, do you even play this game? That Xanadu and wenx did a really crappy job in the war I will agree with you. They sacrificed thier alliances to save thier top galaxies and we made them pay for it. If their strategy had been better than it may have been a much more competitive war. BUt the fact remains it wasnt terribly one sided from the start. All wars end one sided, thats how wars end, thats how wars have to end. 1 month is 1/3 of a round, thats actually a decent war. As far as your gal, xan had alot of defence, they chose to use it to keep their top galaxies alive at any cost. You can take that up with them, it wasnt my doing.



Cothaniel? How in the heck is forming a block done for the good of PA?
"I donated money to them, for the good of planetarion"
"I started a newbie alliance, for the good of planetarion"
"I got 50 friends to join PA, for the good of planetarion"
"I had my alliance start the round alone to make it more interesting for the good of planetarion"

Those statments make sense, yours doesnt.

[RooKie]

Originally posted by Petru
I was in Fury in r6, we were smashed into the ground by a veritable juggernaught. Was I posting on AD whinging after day 3?

Well, it took a month before u were clearly beaten. And few thought we actually could beat FLTVT 2 weeks out in that round.

[K-W]

Originally posted by RooKie
Well, it took a month before u were clearly beaten. And few thought we actually could beat FLTVT 2 weeks out in that round.

Well you should have given those few medals, cause it was pretty bloody obvious to us.

[Treveler]

Originally posted by K-W
"I had my alliance start the round alone to make it more interesting for the good of planetarion"

Those statments make sense, yours doesnt.

To get a few allies to fill up the gals make sense to me. To react to that by making a block containing every major alliance does not.

Sense and sensibilities I guess.

[RooKie]

Originally posted by K-W
Fury attacked elysium with the sole reason of stopping stagnation. Maybe we could have done it better. God forbid we try to do something right. But no, everything is wrong. If Fury tried to stop stagnation they were backstabbers, if they didnt they were dominators. Its nice to be evil no matter what you do. If wed turned on Vts, whos to say one of the sides wouldnt have had problems and gotten crushed? You dont know, I dont know. But of course you pretend to know.

Make it a bit more of a fair fight and ppl will not complain that much.

[RooKie]

Originally posted by Norseman
if such was the case, then you clearly should have made a bigger number out of it.

Was any attempt made to reach a fellow understanding with the major alliances outside vom?

A meeting where some golden ethic rules could have been agreed upon, where arguments could have been both raised and solved..and a chance to make a joint effort for the good of planetarion

or.. was this nobel effort of yours, just something which happened to exist between the walls of vom...where noone bothered to involve the rest of the universe?

Yes, I talked to several alliance leaders about this pre-round.

That is the ONLY reason MadCowS is not allied to ToT this round.

:/

[RooKie]

Originally posted by K-W
1. No its not, this is either your first round, or you arent paying any attentiont to it if you think that is the case. Either that or youve decided to redifine stagnation. Either way, get with the program.

If it isnt stagnant now, why do already WEET members whine?

Originally posted by K-W
2. No, actually NONE of them admit that because it isnt true. Are you tripping on mushrooms?

Propagada

Originally posted by K-W
That Xanadu and wenx did a really crappy job in the war I will agree with you. They sacrificed thier alliances to save thier top galaxies and we made them pay for it. If their strategy had been better than it may have been a much more competitive war. BUt the fact remains it wasnt terribly one sided from the start. All wars end one sided, thats how wars end, thats how wars have to end. 1 month is 1/3 of a round, thats actually a decent war. As far as your gal, xan had alot of defence, they chose to use it to keep their top galaxies alive at any cost. You can take that up with them, it wasnt my doing.

agreed :/

[Hardin]

Originally posted by Cothaniel


I am vom, and I have no intention whatsoever to give in. The people are nice, and giving up never was my style. I know a lot of vom feel the same, so keep it coming Those of us that stick with it through the fire will come out the other side so much stronger - catch you in r10

Oh, I almost forgot...

j00 cubbardly n00bs, oi, argh, teh ODDS fs. Wajn wajn. It's all j00 fault <points finger>. Lies! Jerk! Im quitting!

hehe..obligatory =)

See you on the battlefield.

Quality

[K-W]

Originally posted by RooKie
Make it a bit more of a fair fight and ppl will not complain that much.

Ok, this is a valid desire on your part in a sense. It was FLTV's complaint in rd 6. Yes a fair fight would be fun. But its certainly not evil of us to take our advantage now and push it. I have every hope that you will get a chance down the road to fight in a different situation.

[K-W]

Originally posted by Treveler
To get a few allies to fill up the gals make sense to me. To react to that by making a block containing every major alliance does not.

Sense and sensibilities I guess.

No one made a block containing every major alliance, so perhaps you should find complaints that pertain to reality.

[RooKie]

Originally posted by K-W
Ok, this is a valid desire on your part in a sense. It was FLTV's complaint in rd 6. Yes a fair fight would be fun. But its certainly not evil of us to take our advantage now and push it. I have every hope that you will get a chance down the road to fight in a different situation.

[Hardin]

Originally posted by K-W
No one made a block containing every major alliance, so perhaps you should find complaints that pertain to reality.

We can all play with words Germania...

It may not be a 'formal' block but NARSWEET is definitely a coalition working with the same goal...which is to kill VOM

And Treveller is right - under its umbrella it does contain pretty much every major alliance that is not in VOM.

Well go on try and kill us!

...and when you have done that and stagnated the round I will laugh when you start killing the non-WEET alliances one by one...

It's good tactics as I said before (tried and tested by Fury in R5 and R7)...

I just hope the non-WEET alliances in your excessive coalition realise and get out before that happens!

However - blinded by short term roid gain and success I have little hope that that will happen!

[K-W]

Originally posted by Hardin
We can all play with words Germania...

It may not be a 'formal' block but NARSWEET is definitely a coalition working with the same goal...which is to kill VOM

And Treveller is right - under its umbrella it does contain pretty much every major alliance that is not in VOM.

Well go on try and kill us!

...and when you have done that and stagnated the round I will laugh when you start killing the non-WEET alliances one by one...

It's good tactics as I said before (tried and tested by Fury in R5 and R7)...

I just hope the non-WEET alliances in your excessive coalition realise and get out before that happens!

However - blinded by short term roid gain and success I h
ave little hope that that will happen!

It isnt playing with words, a block and a coallition are two different things.

Whether the coalition contains many alliances is not something I am refuting. I am refuting the idea that they are one block. They arent. They are two blocks napped for the purposes of fightign another block, thus the claims that they are together for the long run and ready to cause stagnation are unfounded.

If a block and a coallition were the same this destinction would be lost.

Wow, thanks for not reading anything Hardin. Its good to know you are showing me common curtesy.

PLease, oh please explain to me what we did in rd 5 and 7 again. I needed a lie reapeted back to me. I do so love hearing stupid lies.

The truth of this round is apparent, and readily available, your decision to make up a convoluted lie to explain it is your problem, not any of ours.

Each alliance in sweet and each alliance in vom are independantly acting entities. Any theory that doesnt take that into account is a crappy theory. A theory that places the entire impetous in one block, or even in one alliance is downright silly.

Since it is clear you have made up your mind based on a flawed understanding of history and a ludicris understanding of how things work im not sure why you are even discussing things.

BTW stagnation is not only likely to occur in every round. It by neccessity will occur in every round given enough time. Its the nature of asteriods and resources. So yes, maybe things will stagnate. The issue is whether they will stagnate in ~3 months, or in one and a half months.

[Scouse]

Originally posted by RooKie
If it isnt stagnant now, why do already WEET members whine?

Bloody good question, actually.

It's not stagnated. Nowhere near being. Don't talk nonsense. It makes your other points less believable.


ps. Nice to see Germ using his "Let's bore everyone to death" tactic to try and win arguments.

[Hardin]

Originally posted by K-W
It isnt playing with words, a block and a coallition are two different things.

Whether the coalition contains many alliances is not something I am refuting. I am refuting the idea that they are one block. They arent. They are two blocks napped for the purposes of fightign another block, thus the claims that they are together for the long run and ready to cause stagnation are unfounded.

U will see in the other thread why there are reason why WEET and NaR have stronger ties than just a common goal to kill VOM.
All I am pointing out is that it is in WEET's and particularly Eclipse's interest to uses NARSWEET to kill VOM as you know once VOM is dead u will have no real opposition to mopping up everybody else!

I have never said NARSWEET is a fixed coalition. I have ALWAYS said that I do expect you to eventually break up.

The question is WHEN?

U obviously want to wait until VOM is dead. - If that happens then we will have stagnation.

I want to see the non-WEET elements of make a decsion to break from the 'coalition' before that happens and there is still a chance of a balanced war...

If a block and a coallition were the same this destinction would be lost. Wow, thanks for not reading anything Hardin. Its good to know you are showing me common curtesy.

PLease, oh please explain to me what we did in rd 5 and 7 again. I needed a lie reapeted back to me. I do so love hearing stupid lies.

The truth of this round is apparent, and readily available, your decision to make up a convoluted lie to explain it is your problem, not any of ours..

I am glad that we have got to the level of accusing me of lying. This scenario I portray is what I HONESTLY think is the situation! Maybe I shud join Scouse in accusing u of trying to bore everyone to death?

Each alliance in sweet and each alliance in vom are independantly acting entities. Any theory that doesnt take that into account is a crappy theory. A theory that places the entire impetous in one block, or even in one alliance is downright silly.

Since it is clear you have made up your mind based on a flawed understanding of history and a ludicris understanding of how things work im not sure why you are even discussing things...

Well I don't see that many flaws with the history I have outlined to date. It is just sad that you are so desperately trying to convince the universe that excessive NARSWEET is justifiable!

BTW stagnation is not only likely to occur in every round. It by neccessity will occur in every round given enough time. Its the nature of asteriods and resources. So yes, maybe things will stagnate. The issue is whether they will stagnate in ~3 months, or in one and a half months.

Yes dont disagree - but it is likely to occur extremely quickly this round unless NARSWEET break up before VOM are killed by sheer numbers!

[Lerxst]

omg... AD becomes worse from round to round. I think the reason why ppl (and I?) stay here and actually read this is the same why they poke a rotten fish on the shore with a stick...

How morbid.

[logbat]

members talk about stagnation but commanders wont do anything before 90% is under the attack limit.

i could again tell you guys how coward you are,but i wont....
ill rather cleverly insinuate that commanders in WEENAR are lohosehers.

[hydridia]

Me seconds the insinuation that narweet hc are swines!!!


Guys gives us a war and i will give you some fun!!!!
Give me the roids i need to grow fat and i will provide you with targets!
Give me the chance to demolish your fleets in fair and unadultered war.
Give us a chance to wage a war for a round not for a week and we will give you the round we should have now!!!

/me still hunting the WP but Kefalos has turned fruity, so instead of having to watch my back ive ditched him so im all alone on the hunt!

[K-W]

Originally posted by Hardin
snip

Whether you know what you say are lies or not doesnt make them any less lies. I am referring mainly to your really really bad recounting of past rounds.

Originally posted by logbat
members talk about stagnation but commanders wont do anything before 90% is under the attack limit.

i could again tell you guys how coward you are,but i wont....
ill rather cleverly insinuate that commanders in WEENAR are lohosehers.

I can only speak on eclipse, where members are not talking about stagnation. So im not sure what you are talking about. Ah cowerdice. A word that so doesnt belong in this game is rediculous yet peeps up whenever someone wants to win a propaganda war. You are a moron if you think you can judge people charecter by your obviously stilited interpretation of this game. You argue from intentional ignorance and proclaim yourself a better human being that others. Grow up.



hydridia There is no such thing as a fair war, just wars of various degrees of advantage. You have a war, do your best I hope as much as you do we see battle in a different form and I dont think anyone in weet HC doesnt. But this is a war game and this is a war. Sometimes they are even sometimes they are not, villinizing the opposition, while clearly popular is harldy appropriate.

[Hardin]

Originally posted by K-W
Whether you know what you say are lies or not doesnt make them any less lies. I am referring mainly to your really really bad recounting of past rounds.

Mate I think you will find it is your biased recounting of previous rounds that has drawn more scorn than my version of history! Either you have had your head buried in the sand or you are beginning to believe your own propoganda...

I am particularly glad however that the debate has descended to this level... As you are a senior and generally well respected player in this game I find it funny that when someone disagrees with you or puts another view you accuse them of 'lying'. How four year old!

I have a few questions for you..

1) NARSWEET coalition is excessive. Even many of your own 'coalition' members acknowledge that. Why did you feel you had to become part of it and now try and defend it? Why couldn't WEET have fought on its own? I know u say NaR asked for the NAP but did u have to grant it?

2) Why do you get so upset when I make the suggestion that the other non-WEET alliances that make up NARSWEET should get out before VOM is completely dead or end up as the next victims? Is it because you see this as potentially the only way WEET and Eclipse will not dominate the game?

3) Razorback aka Focht has already stated that Eclipse's intent is to completely destroy VOM. Okay fair enough goal and understandable! But I still haven't had an answer about which of your NARSWEET coalition members you intend to kill off as soon as VOM is dead?

4) How exactly will you maintain interest for the bulk of players in this game when you have quickly won your war with VOM thanks to the excessive numbers of NARSWEET and then used WEET to destroy all other opposition? Maybe you could wear a thong and give us a dance like Rumad did?

5) Do you really believe (HONESTLY from the bottom of your soul) that once VOM is dead there is really a force in the universe capable of actually beating (rather than causing an inconvenience) to WEET? I mean really honestly you believe that? You honestly feel that NoS, Auld & Rah will last long against WEET and be a real challenge for #1 spot...really? I am interested on what 'spin' you put on this!

6) How long do you intend to keep NARSWEET together anyway? Is it just until VOM is dead and the universe is stagnating? Or do you have any plans to try and even things up before then?

7) From the tone of your previous replies I rather get the impression that you welcome stagnation if it means your alliance wins the round. Is this truly the case? Is your attitude win at all costs or have I judged you wrong?

Thanks!

[KeyStroke]

Originally posted by Hardin
7) From the tone of your previous replies I rather get the impression that you welcome stagnation if it means your alliance wins the round. Is this truly the case? Is your attitude win at all costs or have I judged you wrong?

Thanks!

I believe the attitude is still "We play the game for our sake, not yours".....

An attitude that followed Planetarion for rounds, and is a part of running it into the ground. If people dont get off their high and mighty horses and open their friggin eyes soon there wont be a game to play anylonger.

Planetarion is a business, unless it earns it upkeep and give a slight profit it have no fesible future. The amount of players is shrinking, not growing. It wont be easy to turn that tide unless the players of this game changes and help create an gaming-enviroment players can trive within and have a fair chance to succeed in the game without have incoming 24/7 wave after wave. Sadly most of the power to actually change anything is in the hands of alliance hc's out there that is to conserned about current roids, score and the #1 position to not care about the state of Planetarion, tomorrow, next week or god forbid next round....

[Treveler]

Originally posted by KeyStroke
I believe the attitude is still "We play the game for our sake, not yours".....

An attitude that followed Planetarion for rounds, and is a part of running it into the ground. If people dont get off their high and mighty horses and open their friggin eyes soon there wont be a game to play anylonger.

Planetarion is a business, unless it earns it upkeep and give a slight profit it have no fesible future. The amount of players is shrinking, not growing. It wont be easy to turn that tide unless the players of this game changes and help create an gaming-enviroment players can trive within and have a fair chance to succeed in the game without have incoming 24/7 wave after wave. Sadly most of the power to actually change anything is in the hands of alliance hc's out there that is to conserned about current roids, score and the #1 position to not care about the state of Planetarion, tomorrow, next week or god forbid next round....

Unfortunately you are right!

[K-W]

Originally posted by Hardin
Mate I think you will find it is your biased recounting of previous rounds that has drawn more scorn than my version of history! Either you have had your head buried in the sand or you are beginning to believe your own propoganda...

I am particularly glad however that the debate has descended to this level... As you are a senior and generally well respected player in this game I find it funny that when someone disagrees with you or puts another view you accuse them of 'lying'. How four year old!

I have a few questions for you..

1) NARSWEET coalition is excessive. Even many of your own 'coalition' members acknowledge that. Why did you feel you had to become part of it and now try and defend it? Why couldn't WEET have fought on its own? I know u say NaR asked for the NAP but did u have to grant it?

2) Why do you get so upset when I make the suggestion that the other non-WEET alliances that make up NARSWEET should get out before VOM is completely dead or end up as the next victims? Is it because you see this as potentially the only way WEET and Eclipse will not dominate the game?

3) Razorback aka Focht has already stated that Eclipse's intent is to completely destroy VOM. Okay fair enough goal and understandable! But I still haven't had an answer about which of your NARSWEET coalition members you intend to kill off as soon as VOM is dead?

4) How exactly will you maintain interest for the bulk of players in this game when you have quickly won your war with VOM thanks to the excessive numbers of NARSWEET and then used WEET to destroy all other opposition? Maybe you could wear a thong and give us a dance like Rumad did?

5) Do you really believe (HONESTLY from the bottom of your soul) that once VOM is dead there is really a force in the universe capable of actually beating (rather than causing an inconvenience) to WEET? I mean really honestly you believe that? You honestly feel that NoS, Auld & Rah will last long against WEET and be a real challenge for #1 spot...really? I am interested on what 'spin' you put on this!

6) How long do you intend to keep NARSWEET together anyway? Is it just until VOM is dead and the universe is stagnating? Or do you have any plans to try and even things up before then?

7) From the tone of your previous replies I rather get the impression that you welcome stagnation if it means your alliance wins the round. Is this truly the case? Is your attitude win at all costs or have I judged you wrong?

Thanks!

This has nothing to do with respect. You recounted a version of rd 5 and rd 7 that never happened. It is not the truth, it is therefore a lie. Fury never dumped its allies one by one to roid them. In never happend, that is simply a lie. Take as much offense as you want from that I dont care. Perhapse you could just learn the truth and the matter would be settled.

1) excessive... yes, so? What is your point? The first objective set by weet was to defeat vom. It is in the process of doing so. I agree that the nap with Nar is excessive and not particularly neccessary for that goal to be accomplished, but hindsight is 20/20 and there would have been an unofficial nap anyway if both groups were hitting vom, so whats really the difference? Excessive = wrong or bad. This is, after all, a war game.

2) I never got upset at that. Go for it. I got upset at the silly and false statments being made.

3)We may not intend to kill anyone off. We may just see what happens. Why does eclipse have to intend to kill anyone off after vom?

4)Clearly you are playing the wrong game. This game by neccessisity is a process of players being bumbed to insignificance. The nature of roids demands it. Under no possible way of having a round will you not end with lots of players whove been crushed. That has nothing to do with any alliances policies. Im not sure what you want. Should we try our best to keep the roid average of the universe even among all players? Last time I checked this is a competitive game so IM really not sure what you are doing here if your complaint is that some players beat others.

5) What are you talking about? This is a competitive game. What part of that do you not understand? We are playing to win, we all are. If we dont play to win why in the heck are we spending all this time here. It is not my job to try to lose. It is my job to try to win. Your complaint is, that we may do it in such a way that ends the round months before it is set to reset. I think that NAr is very clearly strong enough to fight a good war against weet. It contains experienced leaders and good alliances. Weet isnt FLTV. As much as im impressed by elysium, wp, and even eclipse, it is no where near the tested experienced military machine that a block with Legion and Fury was. I think if Vom had not made certain tactical mistakes they probably could have made this a much more interesting war. and its really sheer numbers that is hurting them. Nar/Vom could do a damn good job fighting weet, im sure of that. IF there is good organization I would see that as a serious threat.

6) Thats not a decision of one alliance. Im sure each individual alliance is strategically planning for making moves or anticipating moves.

7) Well, I have to strongly suggest you improve your reading skills. I have made it abundently clear that I hate stagnation and that I hope that it does not occur. But this clearly shows your inability to read what I write and not assume I am saying what you think I am going to say.

YOu see me as some evil ex-Fury who loves ot kill the game. Plots evil plans to win at any costs. Sorry to burst your bubble but that person and that alliance is and always has been a myth. Its very unfortunate that we are in rd9 and so few members of this community have realized that. The game would be so much better if more did.

Keystroke, you are a prime example. You still buy into this myth. Everyone plays this game for thier sake. Everyone. You, me, everyone. This isnt charity. We arent making other peoples lives better. We are playing an online game. You speak of getting off horses. The only person I see on a horse is you. Looking down on us as if you were some moral wizard. Get off your horse, realize that you arent a better person than me just because your alliance doesnt win rounds, and maybe this game can improve. Recognize that everyone is in this game for the same thing, fun.

[Psi_K]

Originally posted by K-W
Recognize that everyone is in this game for the same thing, fun.

Thank you for completly dis-proving some of your points.
Eclipse is playing to win, not to have fun.
They can have fun while winning, but under no conditions will Eclipse ever give up the fact that they're in this to win.

IF the HC's of WEENAR were competent enough to understand that everyone is indeed playing this game to have fun, WEENAR (sorry ToT it sounds better) would NOT have formed, PERIOD.

[Treveler]

Originally posted by K-W
Recognize that everyone is in this game for the same thing, fun.

Hehe, oohhh the irony

[K-W]

Originally posted by Psi_K
Thank you for completly dis-proving some of your points.
Eclipse is playing to win, not to have fun.
They can have fun while winning, but under no conditions will Eclipse ever give up the fact that they're in this to win.

IF the HC's of WEENAR were competent enough to understand that everyone is indeed playing this game to have fun, WEENAR (sorry ToT it sounds better) would NOT have formed, PERIOD.

Of course they are in it to win. I'm frankly confused by your post.

Correct me if im wrong, but last time I checked, planetarion was a competitive game, where people attacked each other to grow bigger than others.

Now im not sure, but if thats the game we are playing than desire to win/succeed/grow/whatever is an integral part. A neccessity for the game existing.

This isnt real life. You cant just chill out and throw parties. YOu have to attack, defend and compete. Without competition there is no game.

So please explain to me what is wrong with a desire to win? Why that isnt assumed when playing, and why that cant be fun.

Maybe the round without weetnar would be more fun. But that has nothing to do with the desire to win.

Some of you want to create a game that NO ONE would ever want to play, where all you do is stress out about making sure that everyone is doing ok, and no one is getting roided too much and everyone always has a shot.

[K-W]

Has anyone here ever played a sport?

Competition and a desire to win are not impediments to fun.

Lets say you are in a soccer league. Even the players on the bad team that goes o-10 have fun. Maybe less fun, maybe they get frustrated. Thats just inevitable in competition. For there to be winners there have to be losers. But for some reason people play on the 0-10 team anyway. Maybe its just the fun of the game, maybe its the community.

Its a direct comparison to Planetarion.

Now The issue with Nar/weet vs vom isnt that some people want to win. All people want to win. Hell, if some people didnt want to win, then no one would be complaining. The issue is that the thrill of the game is gone because its so one sided. ITs a valid concern and one that I share. I dont think this is particularly fun either, I just dont see the future as bleak as some of you do. If I did I wouldnt still be playing.


One interesting thing to add, is that after a soccer match, the two teams can shake hands(in a good friendly league, like i think wed like PA to be) and have a beer. The problem with PA is that instead losers hold grudges.

[§pa¢e¢ook¦e]

Originally posted by K-W

1) excessive... yes, so? What is your point? The first objective set by weet was to defeat vom. It is in the process of doing so. I agree that the nap with Nar is excessive and not particularly neccessary for that goal to be accomplished, but hindsight is 20/20 and there would have been an unofficial nap anyway if both groups were hitting vom, so whats really the difference? Excessive = wrong or bad. This is, after all, a war game.

excessive in this way is bad not only for vom but for weet/nar aswell, its a wargame there are no rules whatsoever that tells you not to combine as much force as possible .. but itll make stagnating the game only quicker if you fail to see that not my prob then go ahead and dont worry.

3)We may not intend to kill anyone off. We may just see what happens. Why does eclipse have to intend to kill anyone off after vom?

ehm to have some entertainment for your alliance ? you dont want them to get bored do you

4)Clearly you are playing the wrong game. This game by neccessisity is a process of players being bumbed to insignificance. The nature of roids demands it. Under no possible way of having a round will you not end with lots of players whove been crushed. That has nothing to do with any alliances policies. Im not sure what you want. Should we try our best to keep the roid average of the universe even among all players? Last time I checked this is a competitive game so IM really not sure what you are doing here if your complaint is that some players beat others.

competitive yes, if you fail to see whats trying to be done or are that naive that some others dont see it ... competitive in my eyes would be pick partners where you wanna share gals with in voms case 3 partners thatll share gals and thus working together thus an alliance is easier to be made and the other hand weet getting as much of all kinda alliances in there gals so that theyll have some kind of prot that other gals wont hit them, if your honourable you respect your galm8s alliance you have in your gal. so anyway yes its a war game and ppl are to be crushed loose ships/roids so theres no wrong in that but theres also a point in it thats called fun ... killing of your enemy in a few days i can hardly call fun over a 3 moths game yes its a game not rl war where you would need to kill off your enemy asap so you will have minimum losses and that its over and done and go on to the next stage.

5) What are you talking about? This is a competitive game. What part of that do you not understand? We are playing to win, we all are. If we dont play to win why in the heck are we spending all this time here. It is not my job to try to lose. It is my job to try to win. Your complaint is, that we may do it in such a way that ends the round months before it is set to reset. I think that NAr is very clearly strong enough to fight a good war against weet. It contains experienced leaders and good alliances. Weet isnt FLTV. As much as im impressed by elysium, wp, and even eclipse, it is no where near the tested experienced military machine that a block with Legion and Fury was. I think if Vom had not made certain tactical mistakes they probably could have made this a much more interesting war. and its really sheer numbers that is hurting them. Nar/Vom could do a damn good job fighting weet, im sure of that. IF there is good organization I would see that as a serious threat.

i think Vom doesnt need nar to fight weet, if weet was so brave to keep it with weet this prolly can/could be an interesting round. wow so your actualy saying that you want to kill of your biggest threat that you needed to kill off 1st and thus ganging up nar to your cause, then want a fight with nar against weet coz you think its evenly matched ... hmm might be but i doubt by that time nar will stand a chance, i dont doubt the qualities of nar ....

7) Well, I have to strongly suggest you improve your reading skills. I have made it abundently clear that I hate stagnation and that I hope that it does not occur. But this clearly shows your inability to read what I write and not assume I am saying what you think I am going to say.

"1) excessive... yes, so? What is your point? The first objective set by weet was to defeat vom."


contradicting yourself ?

YOu see me as some evil ex-Fury who loves ot kill the game. Plots evil plans to win at any costs. Sorry to burst your bubble but that person and that alliance is and always has been a myth. Its very unfortunate that we are in rd9 and so few members of this community have realized that. The game would be so much better if more did.

i doubt you purposly want to stagnate the game but you want to win at any costs its what i make out of your post and i can put in parts where you say it to make it more clear where you are saying it, but not directly.


edit : ps competitive is where you take eachother on in fights (in this case) take a partner or make an equal block that is matched and that will be fun, everyone gets bored if theyre never to be attacked or only attack ... the fun is that you once in a while loose roids loose ships or whatever ... that you have to use you BRAIN to accomplisch something ... not like this ehm brainless mass ganging i would hardly call that competitive

[KeyStroke]

Originally posted by K-W
Keystroke, you are a prime example. You still buy into this myth. Everyone plays this game for thier sake. Everyone. You, me, everyone. This isnt charity. We arent making other peoples lives better. We are playing an online game. You speak of getting off horses. The only person I see on a horse is you. Looking down on us as if you were some moral wizard. Get off your horse, realize that you arent a better person than me just because your alliance doesnt win rounds, and maybe this game can improve. Recognize that everyone is in this game for the same thing, fun.

Im in the game for the sake of fun and friends playing it with me. I dont care about what position I end within the game. Its secondary to everything else. Claiming moral high ground? Maybe I do. Both you (I hope) and me know the situation with Planetarion. At least Im not taking part in making things worse than they already are. I always tired to make new players I came in contact with feel welcome to Planetarion, and give a helping hand when I could. And yes I do look down on all of you that dont care about the future of this game. At least your actions within it gives reason to believe you dont care. I never claimed to be a better person than you. I never attacked your person either. As for my alliance never win rounds. Maybe the achievements and goals we set for ourselfs is our victory regardless of score and roids. Heck, its not like we didnt have offers to block up prior to this round, but we didnt want to join something we hate and look down on.

And you are completely right, Its not a charity, hence Planetarion closes down when it cant cover its upkeep and yield any profit for its owners. Atm its 4,627 planets(players) in the game do the friggin maths yourself.

[§pa¢e¢ook¦e]

Originally posted by K-W
Has anyone here ever played a sport?

Competition and a desire to win are not impediments to fun.

Lets say you are in a soccer league. Even the players on the bad team that goes o-10 have fun. Maybe less fun, maybe they get frustrated. Thats just inevitable in competition. For there to be winners there have to be losers. But for some reason people play on the 0-10 team anyway. Maybe its just the fun of the game, maybe its the community.

Its a direct comparison to Planetarion.

Now The issue with Nar/weet vs vom isnt that some people want to win. All people want to win. Hell, if some people didnt want to win, then no one would be complaining. The issue is that the thrill of the game is gone because its so one sided. ITs a valid concern and one that I share. I dont think this is particularly fun either, I just dont see the future as bleak as some of you do. If I did I wouldnt still be playing.


One interesting thing to add, is that after a soccer match, the two teams can shake hands(in a good friendly league, like i think wed like PA to be) and have a beer. The problem with PA is that instead losers hold grudges.

OMFG what a comparisson, you cannot compare it with soccer. if you would you get really weird odds, lets say like the brazilian team would play in an amateur league of the dutch competition or whatever amateur league but then you would be outclassed in which this case never happend/happens its the thing you could say the teams 1 has 14 players and the other has 11 well i wonder who would win altho its no guarantee for winning

[KeyStroke]

Originally posted by K-W

One interesting thing to add, is that after a soccer match, the two teams can shake hands(in a good friendly league, like i think wed like PA to be) and have a beer. The problem with PA is that instead losers hold grudges.

It seems more like premier league take on 5th division and then hooligans take on the crowd watching... No good come out of such

[Hardin]

Originally posted by K-W


excessive... yes, so? What is your point? The first objective set by weet was to defeat vom. It is in the process of doing so. I agree that the nap with Nar is excessive and not particularly neccessary for that goal to be accomplished, but hindsight is 20/20 and there would have been an unofficial nap anyway if both groups were hitting vom, so whats really the difference? Excessive = wrong or bad. This is, after all, a war game.

Okay...as I have said from the beginning NARSWEET is excessive...now you are agreeing with me.

We are making progress here

Now if you think this is excessive why don't you end the nap with NaR now?

VOM is battered but not dead yet...WEET has already built an advantage by using NARSWEET...you would probably still win...but at least we would have a war people on both sides could enjoy and avoid the stagnation which is rapidly heading our way?

As you agree NARSWEET is excessive do something about it! End the nap now... It's better for everyone Your win may not be as guaranteed but the WEET members I know would rather like a real fight than a simple walkover


---------------
btw...I don't hold a grudge against you for being Fury...I know and like many ex-Fury peeps...(honestly I do ) I just don't like the tactics they adopted previously and which Eclipse (till now) seem to have adopted in this one!

[KeyStroke]

Originally posted by §pa¢e¢ook¦e
OMFG what a comparisson, you cannot compare it with soccer. if you would you get really weird odds, lets say like the brazilian team would play in an amateur league of the dutch competition or whatever amateur league but then you would be outclassed in which this case never happend/happens its the thing you could say the teams 1 has 14 players and the other has 11 well i wonder who would win altho its no guarantee for winning

It can be more compared to what is going on in Iraq atm when it comes to raw power.

[Cothaniel]

Everyone with a shred of maturity knows that winning is NOT all that counts. HOW you play is just as important. Even more important, maybe. We are all defined by our actions.

What this community lacks is empathy. People simply cannot picture themselves in the "enemy's" shoes. Fair play and good sportsmanship are totally unknown terms.

Treat others as you would like to be treated. Anything else is placing yourself above everyone else, stating that other people are of less value. No constructive discussion can come from that mental position. Most of the evil done in this world is committed from that mental position.

Now before you grab that one sentence and say "dont compare pa with RL": It has been stated again and again that PA skill is largely about social interaction - and that is as real as anywhere else. Too bad most people forget that there are actual, living, breathing, feeling persons behind each nickname.

Yes, PA is a game. No, the friendship and community of PA is NOT a game.

As my final argument (and to really freak out the 14 year olds) I will quote Buddha =)

The truth of Suffering - Life is full of suffering
The Truth of Harmony - Suffering arises because people let themselves be moved by their desires without regard for how their desired outcomes find a place in reality.
The Truth of Overcoming - Determination to regulate one's desires is the only way to win over suffering, for suffering cannot merely be escaped.

The reasonably intelligent/mature of you will figure out my point quickly enough.

[K-W]

Originally posted by §pa¢e¢ook¦e
Snip

Its just this simple. Yes this first war has been terribly fast and not particularly fun. This COULD mean quick stagnation and a boring round. If so, I will hate it as much as you. I simply dont see any reason to believe this is the end of the round.

Originally posted by KeyStroke
Im in the game for the sake of fun and friends playing it with me. I dont care about what position I end within the game. Its secondary to everything else. Claiming moral high ground? Maybe I do. Both you (I hope) and me know the situation with Planetarion. At least Im not taking part in making things worse than they already are. I always tired to make new players I came in contact with feel welcome to Planetarion, and give a helping hand when I could. And yes I do look down on all of you that dont care about the future of this game. At least your actions within it gives reason to believe you dont care. I never claimed to be a better person than you. I never attacked your person either. As for my alliance never win rounds. Maybe the achievements and goals we set for ourselfs is our victory regardless of score and roids. Heck, its not like we didnt have offers to block up prior to this round, but we didnt want to join something we hate and look down on.

And you are completely right, Its not a charity, hence Planetarion closes down when it cant cover its upkeep and yield any profit for its owners. Atm its 4,627 planets(players) in the game do the friggin maths yourself.

2 points

1. Without those who play to win, those who do what you do, and play to help new people and for the community would have no game to help new people in and would have no community to work in. You play the game in a different and perfectly good way, but without the basic competition of the game, the game doesnt exist.

2. Your assumption that more than a handful of people dont care about the future of the game is patently false and ignorant. And is the kind of accusation that breeds silly stereotypes and unjustified resenment of alliances that hurts the game overall by splitting the community.

If we all played like you there would be no game, without people like you the game would suffer. There is room in this community for people who like to win and room for people who work for the community. There is even room for the handful of people who dont care about anything but score. And this is just a handful. There isnt room for anyone in the community to think they are good others are bad and devide it accordingly.

Originally posted by §pa¢e¢ook¦e
OMFG what a comparisson, you cannot compare it with soccer. if you would you get really weird odds, lets say like the brazilian team would play in an amateur league of the dutch competition or whatever amateur league but then you would be outclassed in which this case never happend/happens its the thing you could say the teams 1 has 14 players and the other has 11 well i wonder who would win altho its no guarantee for winning

Actually its a very good comparison. Lets think of this community as a local football(adjusted my terms for the rest of the world) league. Your comparison of a top class and ametuer team does not apply, or at least it shouldnt. Nor does your changing the players around. That is simply a constraint of the game. Just as PA has constraints soccor doesnt. The simantics of the game dont matter. The idea that it is a competitive game is the point. Pls put down your attitude and think about why a football league works. There are parts of PA that should change to fit the model better, but it gives an important understanding of the nature of a competitive game, something alot of people seem to forget this is.

If you and keystroke both believe it is like a premier league against an ameteur team, the only solution is to have premier and ameteur universes. I dont think this is the case, but if you do, there is your solution.

Originally posted by Hardin
Snip

Since I never said it wasnt excessive, im not sure what progress you think is being made.

The reason to not end the nap with Nar now, is because it makes no difference. The nap means nothing really. As long as both weet and nar are war targetting vom, there is either an implied or a real nap, it has no effect on things, and when either of those alliances chooses to not just target vom, they can simply break the nap. The nap is really just ornemental at this point, since all sides know who is who. If it hadnt been entered into at the beginning this wouldnt have been the case and it would have slowed things down, that is not how it is now.

What you should be doing is trying to convince weet or nar that whatever thier motivation for targetting vom is satisfied and they should move on. THe nap is really nothing at this point and making it your focus doesnt help your cause.

Youve shown a bit of ignorance on furies tactics. Feel free to pm me and I can clear history up for you. Eclipse has not shown you any tactics really. It is stupid for you to think you know thier plan or tactics when the only move theyve made so far is to attack vom. ITs been a week into the round and you think you know eclipses tactics. Its silly things like this that destroy your credibility to any weet or nar people reading this. Stop making assumptions, stick to the facts and remember that we are not so very different than you.

[K-W]

Originally posted by Cothaniel
Everyone with a shred of maturity knows that winning is NOT all that counts. HOW you play is just as important. Even more important, maybe. We are all defined by our actions.

What this community lacks is empathy. People simply cannot picture themselves in the "enemy's" shoes. Fair play and good sportsmanship are totally unknown terms.

Treat others as you would like to be treated. Anything else is placing yourself above everyone else, stating that other people are of less value. No constructive discussion can come from that mental position. Most of the evil done in this world is committed from that mental position.

Now before you grab that one sentence and say "dont compare pa with RL": It has been stated again and again that PA skill is largely about social interaction - and that is as real as anywhere else. Too bad most people forget that there are actual, living, breathing, feeling persons behind each nickname.

Yes, PA is a game. No, the friendship and community of PA is NOT a game.

As my final argument (and to really freak out the 14 year olds) I will quote Buddha =)

The truth of Suffering - Life is full of suffering
The Truth of Harmony - Suffering arises because people let themselves be moved by their desires without regard for how their desired outcomes find a place in reality.
The Truth of Overcoming - Determination to regulate one's desires is the only way to win over suffering, for suffering cannot merely be escaped.

The reasonably intelligent/mature of you will figure out my point quickly enough.

How you play is important. You must play within the rules and within the spirit of the game. But wanting to win is the basic reason that a game exists. Without fair play(as in rules and spirit, not making sure everyone is equally strong), you have a bad game. Without competition between people you have no game.

Lol, empathy eh? I agree fully. If people could realize that we are all normal human beings this good vs evil garbage would stop.

Erm. The big problem with your golden rule is this. PA is a war game. you have to take roids from other people and try not to have roids taken from you. I cant imagine the game would benefit if everyone tried to get roided as much as they roid. I know this isnt exactly what you mean, but recognize that competition demands that you best your opponants.

You cant have Buddhist PA m8. It doesnt work. People have to want roids and want to keep them. The social aspect is important, but this game is more than just a chat network. And your point about human beings is completely and totally on the mark. Too much villinisation and glorification occurs and we forget that fact. But we cant have a pacifist war game. Without people roiding each other, we should just get some channels on a chat network and stop bothering with the game.

[Zh|l]

Originally posted by Psi_K
Thank you for completly dis-proving some of your points.
Eclipse is playing to win, not to have fun.
They can have fun while winning, but under no conditions will Eclipse ever give up the fact that they're in this to win.

IF the HC's of WEENAR were competent enough to understand that everyone is indeed playing this game to have fun, WEENAR (sorry ToT it sounds better) would NOT have formed, PERIOD.

So the formation of VoM was to do what exactly? It was a block formation - there was no other blocks around at the time, not even in negotiation. The closest was Ely/WP that everyone believed would remain together.

Regardless, are you really surprised NaR are hitting VoM when VoM kept on calling them hostile preround and generally giving NaR no option but to fight VoM?

VoM has hardly seen any real big joint military campaign against them from WEET and NaR forces.