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Unread 11 Jul 2007, 10:59   #151
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Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red-
That didnt start till after they got in troubble.
I'm not exactly sure of the series of events, I think Achi set up #transcendancy after Rob or someone was closed (clarification would be nice) but Achi has been giving me scans since pt72. I have no links with Ascendancy (apart from the fact that I'm a celebrity in #ascendancy and joined the Transcendancy tag for the lol effect), so it's pretty fair to say that Achi did give scans out to anyone. It's not really his fault if most of the people who asked him were in Ascendancy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gio2k
Anyways, the support rule should be dropped. Hell, if 500 guys want to play together, let them. For purposes of rankings and deciding the winner of a round, you can always say only the first 60 or so count towards the alliance ranking.
I think it's fine as it is, alliances can split their players over 2-3 tags so that not all of them can get the benefits of reduced ETA.
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Last edited by _Kila_; 11 Jul 2007 at 11:08.
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Unread 11 Jul 2007, 11:57   #152
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Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

/signed.

After what i have read in this thread, i'd really wish Remy would be told to resign from the MH team.
A position like this should be done by reasonable and sensitive people. Unfortunately too often you get the impression its kids on a power trip.
This is a free round, yes - yet still you annihilate time, effort and passion of people and should be aware of that. Doesnt feel like that was the case here, feels like stubborn monarchs too often.
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Unread 11 Jul 2007, 12:03   #153
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Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

Can I ask one simple question? Why did *scendancy feel that they _had_ to have their scanners out of tag? Most other alliances manage well with having them in tag.
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Unread 11 Jul 2007, 12:07   #154
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Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

it wasn't out of tag, I think jester mentioned that Rob was in a different tag (Descendancy) and Achi just didn't seem to want to join a tag
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Unread 11 Jul 2007, 12:08   #155
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Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kargool
Can I ask one simple question? Why did *scendancy feel that they _had_ to have their scanners out of tag? Most other alliances manage well with having them in tag.
This post is based on a wrong assumption, so the question is unanswerable.
Please read the gazillion of other posts and threads where this has been discussed already.
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Unread 11 Jul 2007, 12:12   #156
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Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coltaine
This post is based on a wrong assumption, so the question is unanswerable.
Please read the gazillion of other posts and threads where this has been discussed already.

Aha, so the defacto claim of the closing here is that since he was in another tag and got closed he could not be counted as an supportplanet for ascendancy?

I am still having some issues with Achi's first post in this thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Achi
Transcendancy will most definitely be playing this way and I will be actively meeting with and encouraging other alliance HC's within the intervening period.
What way do you intend to play?

As I dont see any referance to any style of playing in your initial post.
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Unread 11 Jul 2007, 12:13   #157
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Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

I wasn't told to stay outside the tag or anything of the sort, infact JBG asked me several times to join the Asc tag so I would have access to the fund for galraid scanning, which I couldn't afford as an independent scanner. I refused because it was always in my mind to go a different direction this round and to find a natural extension of Jesters idea of public intel.

To answer Kila's question, Transcendancy was created ingame many ticks before Rob was closed. There was a subsequent delay in the channel setup though as I had to wait a day for Alki to support and then half a day for cservice to accept. However, even without P and Munin we had made our offer of free scans public prior to Robs closure.

Kargool: Transcendancy, and hopefully many other alliances (I have over 100 individuals who have pledged support so far) will be playing free accounts as far as possible next round. While we may have 3-4 paid planets for the purposes of providing scans once more that will likely be the limit.
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Unread 11 Jul 2007, 12:16   #158
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Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kargool
Most other alliances manage well with having them in tag.
Do the have them in their own tag though?
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Unread 11 Jul 2007, 12:16   #159
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Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

Quote:
Originally Posted by Achilles
I wasn't told to stay outside the tag or anything of the sort, infact JBG asked me several times to join the Asc tag so I would have access to the fund for galraid scanning, which I couldn't afford as an independent scanner. I refused because it was always in my mind to go a different direction this round and to find a natural extension of Jesters idea of public intel.

To answer Kila's question, Transcendancy was created ingame many ticks before Rob was closed. There was a subsequent delay in the channel setup though as I had to wait a day for Alki to support and then half a day for cservice to accept. However, even without P and Munin we had made our offer of free scans public prior to Robs closure.
I see, so this quest here has been to make scans a public issue instead of a alliance based phenomena?

In that way I can vaguely understand that its a "good" thing you are doing here, but surely first intel gained from doing scans like this benefits Ascendancy, and also while Ascendancy have claimed to have made their webintel public (yes I know it is) I dont see any referances or links to your public munin site anywhere, so maybe if you really want to make this a public thing go all the way?
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Unread 11 Jul 2007, 12:18   #160
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Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nadar
Do the have them in their own tag though?
Well exepct for crusie international who runs around trying to get into 12515 tags each round and perhaps Cain (for whomever he might be scanning for) I havent seen any requests from anyone to have their scanners in other tags. I do despise the morons who actually agree to have other alliances scanners in their tag however.
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Unread 11 Jul 2007, 12:20   #161
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Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kargool
In that way I can vaguely understand that its a "good" thing you are doing here, but surely first intel gained from doing scans like this benefits Ascendancy
They benefit Ascendancy, you say? What about all the other alliances? Everyone can idle in #transcendancy and pick up scans for intel, and besides of that, not all the scanners are in Ascendancy.
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Unread 11 Jul 2007, 12:21   #162
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Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nadar
They benefit Ascendancy, you say? What about all the other alliances? Everyone can idle in #transcendancy and pick up scans for intel, and besides of that, not all the scanners are in Ascendancy.
Naturally, its still not an "public" service in that way.
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Unread 11 Jul 2007, 12:22   #163
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Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

Not quite. Transcendancy isn't just about free scans and free intel. It's about the idea that these things shouldn't just be widely available to the elite players. As regards intel, why don't you pop into #Transcendancy for a chat. There you will have full access to Munin, with the exception of the Target booking commands.

Last edited by Achilles; 11 Jul 2007 at 12:41.
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Unread 11 Jul 2007, 12:23   #164
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Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kargool
I see, so this quest here has been to make scans a public issue instead of a alliance based phenomena?

In that way I can vaguely understand that its a "good" thing you are doing here, but surely first intel gained from doing scans like this benefits Ascendancy, and also while Ascendancy have claimed to have made their webintel public (yes I know it is) I dont see any referances or links to your public munin site anywhere, so maybe if you really want to make this a public thing go all the way?
Munin is available in #transcendancy where you can use him for intel.


For those who don't know of the website that Kargool mentioned - http://munin.clawofdarkness.com/
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Unread 11 Jul 2007, 12:24   #165
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Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kargool
I do despise the morons who actually agree to have other alliances scanners in their tag however.
I think you've misunderstood. Let's say I'm a full-time scanner. I'm originally a Nublars member, but my HC convinces me to go join 1337lars and leech on their alliance fund. To cover myself I do scans for both 1337lars and Nublars. No one will ever be able to "close/take/get" me on that unless they have the conversation between me and my HC.

Agreeing to knowingly take in another alliance's scanner is another thing.
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Unread 11 Jul 2007, 12:25   #166
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Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nadar
I think you've misunderstood. Let's say I'm a full-time scanner. I'm originally a Nublars member, but my HC convinces me to go join 1337lars and leech on their alliance fund. To cover myself I do scans for both 1337lars and Nublars. No one will ever be able to "close/take/get" me on that unless they have the conversation between me and my HC.

Agreeing to knowingly take in another alliance's scanner is another thing.
Been a while since you have been playing now?
The alliance scan log shows where u have been doing scans.
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Unread 11 Jul 2007, 12:28   #167
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Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

So I guess that by Ascendancy's 81 known members in their own arbiter kinda indicates that they are using supportplanets?
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Unread 11 Jul 2007, 12:29   #168
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Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

Guy's, it would be awesome if we could stay on topic here. Kargool, either you choose to believe in what we are doing or you don't. You're as entitled to to be a :hater: as not. But I would ask, both you and everyone else, to give the channel (and the idea) a chance before you go knocking it.

(read: Kargool, if you want to spam Asc hate, do it elsewhere and stop trolling my thread, which has nothing to do with Ascendancy)
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Unread 11 Jul 2007, 12:30   #169
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Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kargool
perhaps Cain (for whomever he might be scanning for)
The Omen BG in Jenova perhaps?
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Unread 11 Jul 2007, 12:32   #170
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Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

Quote:
Originally Posted by _Kila_
Munin is available in #transcendancy where you can use him for intel.
In fact, I believe Munin is now fully operational in all channels, with the exception of some commands used for Ascendancy target picking and sponsoring/inviting.
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Unread 11 Jul 2007, 12:53   #171
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Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk
In fact, I believe Munin is now fully operational in all channels, with the exception of some commands used for Ascendancy target picking and sponsoring/inviting.
Not yet, #transcendancy is special. Eventually the feature will be taken beyond the test phase and all channels will have extended access, but currently the lack of a trust web makes it unfeasible.

Kargool: there are some special features for people listed as Ascendancy in Munin, for this reason Ascendancy 'people' who play actively (and loyally, in the legal sense) in other tags, sometimes list themselves as Ascendancy in intel to gain access to these features.
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Unread 11 Jul 2007, 14:10   #172
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Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kargool
Been a while since you have been playing now?
The alliance scan log shows where u have been doing scans.
Under the Preferences link, there's this:

Code:
Alliance Options
Alliance Scan Option
No, I don't want my alliance to search and view all of my saved scans.
So don't be patronising to people, as it makes you look silly when you're wrong.
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Unread 11 Jul 2007, 14:24   #173
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Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomkat
Under the Preferences link, there's this:

Code:
Alliance Options
Alliance Scan Option
No, I don't want my alliance to search and view all of my saved scans.
So don't be patronising to people, as it makes you look silly when you're wrong.
Erm, so a alliance scanner is gonna hide the scans he does from the alliance's allyfund?

That would take first of all a huge effort hiding the fact that he had it hidden. But yeah, i guess techincally he could, but it would be discovered quite soon.
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Unread 11 Jul 2007, 14:29   #174
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Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

How? Hide the scans you do for alliance X whilst in Y tag. When scanning for Y turn scan saving back on again. I suppose you could employ real time monitoring of the alliance fund or something but please be realistic dude.

But let me guess, "OMG WE NOW NEED TO HAVE A WAY TO KNOW IF A SCANNER IS USING THE FUND FOR NEFARIOUS REASONS BECAUSE ANY KIND OF ASYMMETRIC PLAYING WILL RUIN PLANETARION AND PROBABLY DESTROY THE INTERNET IN A CATACLYSMIC BACKLASH OF PURE UNFAIRNESS ENERGY."

I disagree.
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Unread 11 Jul 2007, 14:32   #175
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Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

Quote:
Originally Posted by Achilles
How? Hide the scans you do for alliance X whilst in Y tag. When scanning for Y turn scan saving back on again. I suppose you could employ real time monitoring of the alliance fund or something but please be realistic dude.
Alliances are never going to keep an eye on this sort of thing, there's always far more important things going on. This especially applies when the scanner is presumed to be loyal. Even if a HC saw some scans for planets and wondered why, they'd just assume that someone else in the alliance asked for them to be done. There's too many possible reasons for a scan of Planet X to be done, from scanning defenders on a member's attack to covert ops reconnaissance.
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Unread 11 Jul 2007, 16:05   #176
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Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

Quote:
Originally Posted by Achilles
How? Hide the scans you do for alliance X whilst in Y tag. When scanning for Y turn scan saving back on again. I suppose you could employ real time monitoring of the alliance fund or something but please be realistic dude.
We're getting wildly off-topic again, but I don't think that's how the scan sharing feature works.

Anyway, we've successfully hid scanners in top alliance tags, with shared scans enabled. This proves that at least some top alliance HC are less anal about checking scans than Kargool. Fantastically interesting fact, is it not?

Now let's get back to arguing the case of Sanity vs Idiocy.
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Unread 11 Jul 2007, 18:05   #177
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Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

I'll have an extra large Idiocy burger with fries and a coke please jester! Remy, you too? No worries - it's on me!
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Unread 11 Jul 2007, 18:11   #178
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Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kargool
Been a while since you have been playing now?
The alliance scan log shows where u have been doing scans.
How many cares enough to actually check all the co-ords the scanners are scanning? How can they possibly check it and confirm everything? They can't.

Open your eyes, Kargool. I know you have a pair of those.
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Unread 12 Jul 2007, 16:01   #179
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Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

Tbh if the pa team gave a shit about game promo, they wouldve made sure scans were more widely available to new players.
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Unread 13 Jul 2007, 19:09   #180
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Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

Not signed ofc

Ascendancy have become Lame beyond my original belief

Ascendancy is the heightness of shiteness
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Unread 13 Jul 2007, 19:13   #181
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Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

First they came for the Communists,
and I didn’t speak up,
because I wasn’t a Communist.

Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn’t speak up,
because I wasn’t a Jew.

Then they came for the Catholics,
and I didn’t speak up,
because I was a Protestant.

Then they came for me,
and by that time there was no one
left to speak up for me.
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Unread 13 Jul 2007, 19:15   #182
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Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

Oi they never came for the Red's-
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Unread 13 Jul 2007, 19:16   #183
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Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

They came for the Reds first dude. Read it again....

In any case that post was merely to underline the thread. It seems to have run it's course.
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Unread 13 Jul 2007, 19:58   #184
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Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

Quote:
Originally Posted by CBA
Not signed ofc

Ascendancy have become Lame beyond my original belief

Ascendancy is the heightness of shiteness
That certainly was a highly valid and well thought argument with no room left for refutation.
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Unread 13 Jul 2007, 20:19   #185
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Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

Next round I intend to purposely blatantly cheat as much as possible with the aim of not being caught, and then pointing out how the "Multihunter" team does no multihunting at all, instead faffing around on stupid situations like this.

No offence guys! It'll be a competition though! Like an Internet version of Catch Me if you Can!
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Unread 13 Jul 2007, 21:07   #186
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Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

No offense, but i think most of you have been playing "Catch me if you can" with the MH and the PA team for a couple of rounds already.
EDIT: I meant to say 'some', not 'most'.
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Unread 14 Jul 2007, 07:39   #187
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Angry Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

I'm taking this thread quite late in, but...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Remy
Your analysis is wrong, you are free to speak to ME about it, so i can explain it a bit more in detail. You have no access to the logs like i do, so you might not even be ABLE to see WHY such scans are related to asc.
Translation and interpretation:
Your analysis is wrong
-> I know better than you what you did with your scans

you are free to speak to ME about it, so i can explain it a bit more in detail
-> If I bother answering you, I'll tell you why I know it (or ~I'll tell you why you don't know what you did with your scans)

You have no access to the logs like i do
-> I have the power

so you might not even be ABLE to see WHY such scans are related to asc
-> you can't know why I closed you.

.... ahem... This is pathetic. "I know, but you don't know what you did, you don't know why you did it". Isn't this really considering Achi as a plain dumb scanner? "you don't even know why this is related to asc", that's about what Remy is trying to tell him, besides (which is serious too...) "I know, you don't know, I can explain a bit more details, but for the rest I know better than you anyway"... :/

Surely this can't be serious. This is just plain "I have the power, stfu n00b".

Maybe indeed all playing free next round, and on top of it registering all of us several (5, 6, more?) planets. Let's give Remy some job to do.
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Unread 14 Jul 2007, 09:15   #188
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Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gio2k
No offense, but i think most of you have been playing "Catch me if you can" with the MH and the PA team for a couple of rounds already.
EDIT: I meant to say 'some', not 'most'.
If we're gearing a game to stop Ascendancy (which with shorter rounds and disrupting any method that doesn't involve straight value play it has been) rather than to actually play a game that works, then the game has lost focus. If the player base is frustrated by Ascendancy, they need to think up new ways of playing to combat it. From a development point of view, the game does not need changing simply because some people are playing the game well or in a different way to which most people would expect. It does however need changing to give it more depth and more ways to win. This is not by the way saying Ascendancy are 'good' in any way - I'm simply saying how they have played.

As much as people would label it as 'lame', last round several alliances decided that the only solution was for everyone to launch at Ascendancy and for Greenhills to accept mass donations. This is acceptable in terms of playing the game, because like us, they were playing within the game rules and got it organised. Obviously, in terms of alliance warfare it was a touch hypocritical, because a large number of these alliances could have displayed the same determination and proactivity earlier and got a victory for themselves.

The only thing the MH have reason to dislike Asc members for is abusive behaviour, but to be honest this has NOTHING to do with how the game is played.

A point that many Asc players make (along with others) about the support planet rule (which by the way we have followed and tried to observe regardless of our opposition to it) is that it is very uncertain, so it comes as no surprise to me whatsoever that a MH with the hump decides to interpret it in a way that goes against an ascendancy player. The problem is that the rule is so bad, that from the perspective of the rules he can't be wrong.

Remy's logic is flawed, but so is that of the rule. It's more than flawed - it's batshit insane. The OOGOOA concept has also been shown to be completely crazy, simply because it railroads over what in my opinion is one of the key rules which is "no donations". The fact that there has been a total disrespect for alliance limits in the past 2 rounds contributes even further to back up my argument that the rule is totally useless.

But there's an additional point to be made here. Whether you really can't stand a particular group or person is neither here nor there when you are in a position of administration. There are people on AD who I would very much love to ban but until there is a good reason to do it, I just won't. Because bias leads to inconsistency which leads to chaos.

This isn't just about game concepts and rules; it's about responsible use of power.

Signed.
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Unread 15 Jul 2007, 14:24   #189
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Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

support planets, and especially initiatives such as #transcendancy should be openly encouraged and not arbitrated against.

This is a war game. Let us make war
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Unread 15 Jul 2007, 17:16   #190
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Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

Being a big fan of #transcendancy im clearly in support of Achilles and think that the public scan/intel channel is possibly the most refreshing addition to the game in many rounds. If it is in violation of the EULA (without reading it i wont make any judgements on that) then the EULA should be changed as surely the PA teams sole purpose in rule making is for the benefit of the PA community, which without a doubt these selfless scanners are. So many a player quits due to crashing when they cant get the approapriate scans, normally being the newer players without a strong alliance scanning support team, and without new blood into the game it'll come to a close ever sooner, which surely cant be the PA teams objectives in all this?

/fight the power
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Unread 15 Jul 2007, 17:27   #191
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Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

Achilles was deleted this tick. I believe he is starting a new account now to do the same thing and provide scans for everyone who asked for them.
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Unread 15 Jul 2007, 17:27   #192
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Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

147 ppl in #planetarion
130 ppl in #transendancy

whether or not all the ppl in #tran support the initiative, facts speak for themselves that the initiative is clearly a welcome and wanted addition
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Unread 15 Jul 2007, 17:38   #193
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Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

Right.
Multihunters of planetarion.
I implore you to do your ****ing job properly!

Try closing down REAL support planets.
What achi has done is something GOOD for the game.
His channel and his attitude to it has made somewhere people can go for help. This is mainly for solo planets or those in alliances that dont have scanners on 24/7. They now have a place they can go to get scans and from the feel of the channel get a sense of community.
Ive been in there the past couple of days and got a few scans off them as well. You gonna close them for supporting Orbit?
The general atmosphere in that channel is good and is encouraging.
You you are closing down the creator of such a community building scheme?

Best intrests of the game are really on your agenda aren't they.

ps* signed!
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Unread 15 Jul 2007, 18:53   #194
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Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

Someone had to make a cartoon
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Unread 15 Jul 2007, 20:43   #195
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Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

Does this mean that if you have an alliance scanner in your galaxy that is not in your alliance they can no longer give you a scan?

If this is the case then this is the biggest anti player, anti buddy pack, anti galaxy mate rule I have ever seen from the PA MH team.

You better close me too because I provided my galaxy mates with some scans and I am not an alliance scanner.

In fact close all planets that have performed scans as God only knows who those scans have been provided to.
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Unread 15 Jul 2007, 22:16   #196
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Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

Quote:
Originally Posted by Travler
In fact close all planets that have performed scans as God only knows who those scans have been provided to.
God ... and Remy!
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Unread 15 Jul 2007, 22:55   #197
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Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

In Remy we thrust (not a typo)
Booom shakka lakka lakka!
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Unread 16 Jul 2007, 00:33   #198
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Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

How do multi hunters breathe, what with them having their heads up their own arses ?
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Unread 16 Jul 2007, 00:44   #199
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Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaio
How do multi hunters breathe, what with them having their heads up their own arses ?
So that's what they mean when they say they're out scuba diving.
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Unread 16 Jul 2007, 00:51   #200
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Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

I think the idea of giving free scans to other people is great. On the other hand, this service should be directed towards those that don't have easy access to scans. One would think decent alliances already have scanners intag. I don't think the occasional jgp for a member of an alliance is cause for closure. 90% of the jgps made, on the other hand, is something entirely different.
If anything, this shows us that the alliance member limits and the support planet rule should be revised for the next round. I really don't see much point in demonizing Remy for applying the rules.
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