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Unread 1 May 2009, 01:26   #1
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Dear zPeti

Hi, I am sure you've by now taken some of your first impressions about Planetarion in, and have decided where you want with this game.

However, you claim this being your bread and butter, I feel your involvement in the game is what I would call pathetic and lowly. Just based on the level of interest you show in the game, and your involvement in a few of the running discussions on the forums.

There are several large debates going now that lack your input and apparently your interest, and I would like to challenge you to actually show that you are true with your statements that you want this game to do well.

1: The debate ongoing about alliance size.

2: The future for Planetarion: Where next? what do we want?

3: The current debacle about salvage. Are we being attacked to death?

Read up on it, and please reply where you think the direction should head.
Because at the moment, I really don't feel like contributing to your budget towards bread and butter because of your lack of intrest.
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Unread 1 May 2009, 01:39   #2
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Re: Dear zPeti

While, i'd like to see more input.. It isnt very wise for him to comment on things which he does not fully understand. This will be his first full round and he can see how things go (hopefully, he's playing a planet) and how each feature is used.

For alliance sizes and salvage, he cant really base an opinion on one thread and viewing half a round. He's still got to rely on input from the PA/Dev Team about the consequences and results of each.. However, the best thing you could ask for (which i'd like to see) is that when he is leaning towards one decision, he makes it public before he finally decides so we can debate it and hopefully iron out any flaws.

He stated earlier, that his efforts at the moment are to find a stable and reliable hosting solution for PA and try to prevent any downtime. You've got to give him this round, so watch, play and understand Planetarion before you can demand answers and debate changes with him. At the moment, you can class him as a 'new player' and debating a new player about Planetarion isnt very noteworthy and will only result in zPeti saying opinions and views which are thrown out by the Planetarion community.
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Unread 1 May 2009, 07:46   #3
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Re: Dear zPeti

I'm OK with zPeti concentrating his efforts on making the game look good and reliable. It doesn't bother me if he's not involved in the fine tuning of some games features (on which the community is divided anyway).
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Unread 1 May 2009, 11:49   #4
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Re: Dear zPeti

Considering he has no experience with playing pa he should not be involved in any gameplay discussions at the moment, ie exactly what light and makhil said.
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Unread 1 May 2009, 12:06   #5
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Re: Dear zPeti

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Originally Posted by BoredPaPlayer View Post
Considering he has no experience with playing pa he should not be involved in any gameplay discussions at the moment, ie exactly what light and makhil said.
Yes but it would be wise for him to listen and watch what the community is thinking.
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Unread 1 May 2009, 12:07   #6
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Re: Dear zPeti

I totally disagree.

He should 1) Involve himself and get to understand more in order to be able to sell the game. If he doesn't how is he going to sell it? It's a space game, you steal roids is not much of a sell for a commercial now is it?

I also think that some new eyes need to look at the game and come with some input in order to actually develop the game further. For as much as we like to think of it as huge changes, there are no large changes to the game since I came back in r11, and that is why PA is not attracting new players.
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Unread 1 May 2009, 12:12   #7
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Re: Dear zPeti

How do you know that he isn't reading said threads and trying to understand? I don't expect him to post anything about these issues as he seems to still be relatively new, give him some time and he'll grasp the concepts before giving his input on them.
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Unread 1 May 2009, 12:18   #8
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Re: Dear zPeti

Quote:
Originally Posted by _Kila_ View Post
How do you know that he isn't reading said threads and trying to understand? I don't expect him to post anything about these issues as he seems to still be relatively new, give him some time and he'll grasp the concepts before giving his input on them.
I don't know that, I just pressume so since he only post 1 time each full moon, which is rather sad.
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Unread 1 May 2009, 12:19   #9
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Re: Dear zPeti

I also feel that the need to have new stats every round is ok for keeping it fresh for older players, but just inconsistant for newer players.
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Unread 1 May 2009, 12:20   #10
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Re: Dear zPeti

What is he supposed to post in threads that he doesn't know enough to post in/about?
He clearly reads the forums:
Quote:
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Unread 1 May 2009, 12:24   #11
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Re: Dear zPeti

Quote:
Originally Posted by _Kila_ View Post
What is he supposed to post in threads that he doesn't know enough to post in/about?
He clearly reads the forums:
But where was the interest, where was the communication with the community?
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Unread 1 May 2009, 12:36   #12
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Re: Dear zPeti

I whole-heartedly agree with Kargool. zPeti should be massively more involved in all activities pa related. Or have someone inbetween him and pa, where they can actually discuss the feelings of the members with zPeti, sort of like a personal advisor, but someone that the community know exists so we can direct our problems at someone!
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Unread 1 May 2009, 12:45   #13
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Re: Dear zPeti

Let's face it, zPeti is utterly clueless when it comes to the game mechanics of PA. And that's fine! You don't really think that the owners of Blizzard could do game development for Starcraft II either, do you?

zPeti should be a manager, nothing more. He should not tell people what to do or how to do it, simply what they should achieve. We have people far more suitable to decide how to reach these goals (Cochese, for instance).

That said, he should definitely stay in touch with the community. Ideally he would participate in it, but simply taking note of it (as he's doing) does just fine as well.
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Unread 1 May 2009, 13:56   #14
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Re: Dear zPeti

I'll be the one making some of those decisions, Kargool.

Not alliance sizes...though I suppose I'll have some input on it.

Salvage will be changed for next round. The current change was far too drastic, and you're all seeing the results of it. I think everyone is in agreement there.

As for the future, I think PATeam has a pretty good idea of where the game needs to go; I know I've put my two cents in, and most of the feedback was positive. Obviously I cannot control the marketing/advertising aspects, only the game mechanics and such.

I think the consensus is, that we have to start getting new players in, and give them something they can use easily without feeling lost or overwhelmed. Finally, make sure the game is playable for the casual gamer, while maintaining depth at the higher levels for those that choose to put more time and effort into it.
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Unread 1 May 2009, 14:00   #15
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Re: Dear zPeti

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kargool View Post
However, you claim this being your bread and butter, I feel your involvement in the game is what I would call pathetic and lowly. Just based on the level of interest you show in the game, and your involvement in a few of the running discussions on the forums.
this is like the most unfair and biased accusations i have read in a while.
i dont remember any "owner" of the game, beeing that much into working on PA with checking what the community thinks about it then zPeti.
And like stated before, zPeti´s job isnt to do game balancing (yet), and that would be pretty stupid to do without having a clue about what PA is and how it works.

So if you wanna complain about game mechanics, you better should adress Appoco, Cin & Co
i dont say the game is perfect, but moaning at someone whos working for PA (the first time in ages, someone does that) and who isnt responsible for alliance limit, salvage rule is just totally wrong

so my advice to zPeti is to not listen to this moan-post (but i am sure he did read it allready)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kargool View Post
Read up on it, and please reply where you think the direction should head.
Because at the moment, I really don't feel like contributing to your budget towards bread and butter because of your lack of intrest.
i think he can survive without your 5 Pounds

sorry if i sound harsh, but this accusations in the original post, just piss me off, cause i think zPeti is the best that could have happend to PA (maybe apart from Spinner coming back)
and for the first time in ages i think something is moving, and this pathetic moaning will do just one thing: kill morale

so kargool leave it be, or change your tone
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Unread 1 May 2009, 14:05   #16
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Re: Dear zPeti

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cochese View Post

Salvage will be changed for next round. The current change was far too drastic, and you're all seeing the results of it. I think everyone is in agreement there.
1) how can anyone be sure its that bad allready, with 1 week into the round ?

2) where is everyone agreeing !? who is everyone ? jbg ?

this is the same shit as always, changes will be done and undone without checking anything, how can we known allready that salvage needs to be changed for next round!!!!!
if it needs to be changed, fine, but then announce it after you have seen all things it affects, and not decide because some scream louder then others
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Unread 1 May 2009, 14:23   #17
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Re: Dear zPeti

Quote:
Originally Posted by M0RPH3US View Post
this is like the most unfair and biased accusations i have read in a while.
i dont remember any "owner" of the game, beeing that much into working on PA with checking what the community thinks about it then zPeti.
And like stated before, zPeti´s job isnt to do game balancing (yet), and that would be pretty stupid to do without having a clue about what PA is and how it works.

So if you wanna complain about game mechanics, you better should adress Appoco, Cin & Co
i dont say the game is perfect, but moaning at someone whos working for PA (the first time in ages, someone does that) and who isnt responsible for alliance limit, salvage rule is just totally wrong

so my advice to zPeti is to not listen to this moan-post (but i am sure he did read it allready)



i think he can survive without your 5 Pounds

sorry if i sound harsh, but this accusations in the original post, just piss me off, cause i think zPeti is the best that could have happend to PA (maybe apart from Spinner coming back)
and for the first time in ages i think something is moving, and this pathetic moaning will do just one thing: kill morale

so kargool leave it be, or change your tone

While you might look up at it as whining, I think its not. A healthy and good game actually has some regular updates on changes and on things that are in the makings. Regular updates like development blogs, newsletters, organizations, even maybe play testing sessions that are not called betas, but testing sessions that are there to test new items before they get into play.

The designer who is making the new skin got that and set up an development blog. (albeit sadly not updated much) but atleast that is something. I expect something similar from Fubra or Renegade or whatever. What about a weekly newsletter?


I also do NOT feel I have been in any way very negative in my initial post, and I also remember so many people yelling at the people that seemed uncertain about what Jolt's intentions were, and we all know how that worked out. I was extremly positive when I saw his first post and even thought: Wow, this might be it, but after that I feel his interest in keeping us informed, and also keeping us updated on whats going on have dwindled away.
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Unread 1 May 2009, 14:29   #18
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Re: Dear zPeti

I agree with kargool about the newsletter, blueemu has just updated his blog regarding the new portal and seems to have taken peoples opinions on board and explained where he hasn't. He at least has a way of keeping us posted about changes. theres no way of the community at the moment having a clue about any ideas, planned changes or future changes. We need some way of appeasing the people, of letting us know that they care about us and are looking into the product we pay for and spend so much time playing.
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Unread 1 May 2009, 14:55   #19
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Re: Dear zPeti

Quote:
Originally Posted by M0RPH3US View Post
1) how can anyone be sure its that bad allready, with 1 week into the round ?
I've played this game for almost ten years, and have had a hand in designing parts of it off and on for about 8 of those ten. I can pretty accurately tell when a certain change is going to be shit, and the salvage change is one of them.

Quote:
2) where is everyone agreeing !? who is everyone ? jbg ?
JBG, other than occasionally doing stats, isn't involved in development. "Everyone" would be most of the people that are.

Quote:
this is the same shit as always, changes will be done and undone without checking anything, how can we known allready that salvage needs to be changed for next round!!!!!
if it needs to be changed, fine, but then announce it after you have seen all things it affects, and not decide because some scream louder then others
The previous comment applies here as well. It was a trigger-finger response to the salvage donation race of last round, without much thought put into it. Oops. Pretty safe to go ahead and put that on the "to do" list of changes for next round.
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Unread 1 May 2009, 15:00   #20
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Re: Dear zPeti

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cochese View Post
I've played this game for almost ten years, and have had a hand in designing parts of it off and on for about 8 of those ten. I can pretty accurately tell when a certain change is going to be shit, and the salvage change is one of them.
I could ask the obvious. If someone who's been doing this for years knows something is going to be shit..how the hell did it get so far as to be allowed in the game? Even if it wasn't you who played a part in that particular disaster, surely only someone of equal skill and experience should be mucking around with such key features of the game.
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Unread 1 May 2009, 15:04   #21
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Re: Dear zPeti

You'd think it wouldn't have gotten out of the "design on paper" stage, let alone the beta stage...

Unfortunately, the beta is a joke, and I was buried in school during the time when I needed to be around.
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Unread 1 May 2009, 15:06   #22
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Re: Dear zPeti

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cochese View Post
You'd think it wouldn't have gotten out of the "design on paper" stage, let alone the beta stage...

Unfortunately, the beta is a joke, and I was buried in school during the time when I needed to be around.
Im in no way saying this is your fault, but surely someone must have seen the problems that would occur? if you aren't here and someone isn't familiar with these things shouldn't they have been left well alone?
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Unread 1 May 2009, 15:08   #23
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Re: Dear zPeti

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cochese View Post
I've played this game for almost ten years, and have had a hand in designing parts of it off and on for about 8 of those ten. I can pretty accurately tell when a certain change is going to be shit, and the salvage change is one of them.
But all they've done is take it back to the formula that worked for many rounds before it was moved up? It may have been less noticeable then due to zik stealing but I think it's fine as it is now, with maybe a slight buff to salvage from attacking ships to reward people who kill off crashers. Being able to win a battle in attack was far too hard last round, and the current formula quite accurately reflects the "casualties on both sides" nature of battles.
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Unread 1 May 2009, 15:15   #24
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Re: Dear zPeti

I'm not implying it will change drastically, rather that it will change in some way.

The main thing is that it was changed without really considering the variables, just "okay lets drop it by x percent because it was "too high" last round" type of thing.

Stuff shouldn't be changed around in a two week period between rounds. Bad things happen, and have happened dozens of times in the past, with that sort of short-sighted approach to "development".
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Unread 1 May 2009, 15:18   #25
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Re: Dear zPeti

Do you think theres not enough time between rounds for the PATeam (or whoever makes decision) to fully analyse changes? Surely preparation for the following round should be done weeks before the end of the current one?
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Unread 1 May 2009, 15:24   #26
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Re: Dear zPeti

I completely agree, and have been pushing for an ongoing development approach. It shouldn't really end, and certainly can't be fully tested in two weeks.

Having discussions about different changes throughout the round is good, but it should be more aggressive. It's more like "work" rather than just tossing ideas around without coming to any real conclusions.

With some sort of long-term plan, round-to-round changes aren't really all that important as there are going to be mistakes along the way. However, by the time you get to where you want the game to be, those mistakes have all been sorted out and you're left with something that should very closely resemble what you originally designed.

The patchwork mentality of PA development needs to stop. It isn't effective, and we've ended up with a game that's nothing more than bits and pieces of stuff loosely strung together.
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Unread 1 May 2009, 19:24   #27
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Re: Dear zPeti

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cochese View Post
I'll be the one making some of those decisions, Kargool.

Not alliance sizes...though I suppose I'll have some input on it.

Salvage will be changed for next round. The current change was far too drastic, and you're all seeing the results of it. I think everyone is in agreement there.
Just to clarify, I've asked Cochese to look at stats, race and government bonuses, and salvage, as they're quite a 'block' and I've generally muddled through / delegated them / ignored them in the past. This way, they'll have more attention.
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Unread 2 May 2009, 06:19   #28
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Re: Dear zPeti

Quote:
Originally Posted by M0RPH3US View Post
1) how can anyone be sure its that bad allready, with 1 week into the round ?

2) where is everyone agreeing !? who is everyone ? jbg ?

this is the same shit as always, changes will be done and undone without checking anything, how can we known allready that salvage needs to be changed for next round!!!!!
if it needs to be changed, fine, but then announce it after you have seen all things it affects, and not decide because some scream louder then others
Maybe because he's right? If you have to rely on having emp to def with you to get positive salvage even if u destroy completely enemy fleet.. That's a fail and needs fixing.

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