USA = Roman Empire

[DoctaDre]

Alright, time to shake things up a bit.





We're in our twilight, our decline




Best part is we don't even know it yet





Now, are we evil or merely pawns on history's chessboard? (yes)




BEGIN DISCUSSION

[Hicks]

America is no where near Italy.

[lokken]

the US is actually a modern empire, even though in theory it's meant to be anti-imperialist.

[Hicks]

The Roman Empire was the most powerful empire in the world 2000 years ago declining due to a complex mix of internal (Weak emperors/lack of military manpower/economic weakness) and external (Barbarian invasions/migrations) pressures. America is a powerful country today, surely the relevance is obvious, oh hang on wait a second.

[s|k]

While the U.S. has some enourmous influence, it's nothing close to the organizational and poltical aspects of Rome. Who in the U.S. can compare to Cicero, well known members of the Roman Senate, Julius Ceaser, Horace, Juvenile, and others? There were leaders who could fight, write, and lead politically. The Romans were around for hundreds of years, I bet the dominance of the U.S. wont last as long or have the lasting influence.

[DoctaDre]

The ensuing population shift from the Anglo-oriented society to one of Latin American dominance will be the catalyst for major foreign and domestic policy shifts




Combined with the influx of foreign technology and corporate clout, namely that of the Japanese, will turn the American economy from the one leading the world to one of the followers




Cap it all off with China's rise to become the world's next superpower through purchasing and military power (overwhelming numerical superiority vs. US tech advantage) will see the GREAT WHITE SATAN fall into history's shadow....





By the year 2075, American history will be rewritten by the new world order, as history always is....




TALK AMONGST YOURSELVES

[s|k]

Okay I don't see where this thread is going anymore :/

[DoctaDre]

Originally Posted by s|k

While the U.S. has some enourmous influence, it's nothing close to the organizational and poltical aspects of Rome. Who in the U.S. can compare to Cicero, well known members of the Roman Senate, Julius Ceaser, Horace, Juvenile, and others? There were leaders who could fight, write, and lead politically. The Romans were around for hundreds of years, I bet the dominance of the U.S. wont last as long or have the lasting influence.

The chronology of Empires has nothing to do with their influence



German dominance of Europe lasted all of what, a decade, and here we sit almost 75 years later just beginning to look at how to prevent another world war



The rise of technology as the new power and the new currency will see the pace of history accelerate, so forget over 1000 years of Roman dominance as the benchmark of historical influence



It was the American drive for ingenuity, innovation and progress that sowed the seeds of our own downfall, just as Roman drive for land, conquest and glory, which initially fueled their rise to power provided the impetus for their fall....



cyclic, baby, it's all cyclic

[DoctaDre]

Originally Posted by s|k

Okay I don't see where this thread is going anymore :/

this is the point of discourse, it has no destination, only evolution

[s|k]

Originally Posted by DoctaDre

The chronology of Empires has nothing to do with their influence

I said nothing of this.

Originally Posted by DoctaDre

German dominance of Europe lasted all of what, a decade, and here we sit almost 75 years later just beginning to look at how to prevent another world war

Are we really looking at preventing another world war? Really? Who are the supposed antagonists and protagonists in this "world war" we are preventing?

Originally Posted by DoctaDre

The rise of technology as the new power and the new currency will see the pace of history accelerate, so forget over 1000 years of Roman dominance as the benchmark of historical influence

New currency? What, the Euro? Electronic commerce? How can the pace of history accelerate? Time moves faster? I think we wouldn't even be able to notice if time moved faster as we are within it's domain, so to speak. Anyhow, history probably always appears to move faster within one's own lifetime because our perspectives are skewed by the daily going ons. If any of it is historical will not be known in our lifetimes.

Originally Posted by DoctaDre

It was the American drive for ingenuity, innovation and progress that sowed the seeds of our own downfall, just as Roman drive for land, conquest and glory, which initially fueled their rise to power provided the impetus for their fall....

I don't think you know what lead to U.S. dominance or Roman decline.

[DoctaDre]

Then tell me what did




Enlighten me





Also, to say we cannot know whether an event of our own time is historical or not is well......







heh

[s|k]

What is up with you and the enter key? I'm no longer paying attention to you.

[JammyJim]

Chinese numerical superiority is meaningless in the nuclear age. Noone will risk going to war.

I refer you to Oppenheimers scorpion analogy which still holds true today even if the actors are somewhat different.

The basic principle still applies.

[Dead_Meat]

Originally Posted by DoctaDre

Alright, time to shake things up a bit.





We're in our twilight, our decline




Best part is we don't even know it yet





Now, are we evil or merely pawns on history's chessboard? (yes)




BEGIN DISCUSSION

Rome had vomitoriums.
America has 'All You Can Eat' buffets.

I think I've wrapped this one up.

NEXT PLEASE.

[s|k]

Originally Posted by Dead_Meat

Rome had vomitoriums.
America has 'All You Can Eat' buffets.

I think I've wrapped this one up.

NEXT PLEASE.

[DoctaDre]

Originally Posted by JammyJim

Chinese numerical superiority is meaningless in the nuclear age. Noone will risk going to war.

I refer you to Oppenheimers scorpion analogy which still holds true today even if the actors are somewhat different.

The basic principle still applies.

True, major conflict in the nuclear age is not likely



But surely not impossible



The only countries with the ability to destroy the world in 13 minutes are (we hope) too controlled to let conventional warfare escalate


However, consumerism is the 'in-thing' right now....Americans advanced it, but the Chinese, with their half-hearted shift towards capitalism and over a billion mouths to feed and a few resources to back it up, may very well become the big hogs of the next century



If America stops consuming one quarter of the world's resources, SOMEONE will have to

[DoctaDre]

Originally Posted by Dead_Meat

Rome had vomitoriums.
America has 'All You Can Eat' buffets.

I think I've wrapped this one up.

NEXT PLEASE.

Have they no Pizza Huts in jolly 'ole Limey-land?

[Hicks]

Originally Posted by DoctaDre

If America stops consuming one quarter of the world's resources, SOMEONE will have to

Why ?

[JammyJim]

Originally Posted by DoctaDre

Have they no Pizza Huts in jolly 'ole Limey-land?

We have never compared ourselves to the Roman Empire


We always said we were bigger and better



and we were.

[s|k]

Originally Posted by JammyJim

We have never compared ourselves to the Roman Empire


We always said we were bigger and better



and we were.

The sun never set's eh. No doubt about what you say, but then they went and messed it all up by deviding up lands with borders contrary to cultural disperson of peoples causing all sorts of problems. If they only had listened to Lawrence of Arabia. :/

[DoctaDre]

Take the British Empire if you like




Same concept



Two simple matters, just like the Romans, just like the Americans: Over-extension and over-reach combined with the basic truth that no people like to have others lording over them




Romans and Brits were hated because of their military and political dominance just as the Americans are for their economic and suspect foreign policy




kings on the mountain always get knocked down

[MrL_JaKiri]

Originally Posted by DoctaDre

It was the American drive for ingenuity, innovation and progress that sowed the seeds of our own downfall, just as Roman drive for land, conquest and glory, which initially fueled their rise to power provided the impetus for their fall....

The impetus for the fall of the romans was the removal of the "drive for land, conquest and glory", not its presence. The Roman empire had stopped expanding for quite some time before the fall, you know, and the civilisation had gotten decadent and complacent.

[Deepflow]

posting in a Doctadre thread

[wu_trax]

Originally Posted by lokken

the US is actually a modern empire, even though in theory it's meant to be anti-imperialist.

since when?

[wu_trax]

Originally Posted by Toccata & Fugue

The US was anti-imperialist when it didn't have an empire and all the African/Asian states were locked up by the Europeans.

they killed 100,000s of indians to occupy their land, i hardly call that anti-imperialistic.

[wu_trax]

yes, but thats just a different name. for some time they turned to protectionism and focused mostly on themselfs (economically at the least), but for most of the time id call them imperialistic (same is true for most countries in europe though)

but what do i care? theyll be finished, at least economically, in the next 20-30 years

[Marilyn Manson]

America is the hegemon at the moment. China has the possibility of being a future hegemon. Russia is definetley finished in that regard. Europe probably also.

The problem for China is how to expand it's political influence so that it is commensurate with it's future economic dominance; you can be economically dominant, and still be a political dwarf; See Japan for details.

People have been saying America is in it's decline for at least thirty years though, and it's become something of a totally unsubstantiated platitude.