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Unread 18 Mar 2007, 14:24   #51
Amycus
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Re: And now for something different.

DeLoS winning was a good show imo and well diserved.

However, in regards to what Kal said, if you have a game that is meant to be diverse in races, then when it's over say:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal
BUT - surely everyone knew all the formulae and stats at the start of the round - if one particular person, group, alliance adapts to this best and wins surely it shows they are using the correct tactics etc for a given round - people can complain about the balence issues etc., but in the end the winners still did a better job than anyone else - if it was a play for XP round, why didn't everyone adapt and play like that?
If this was the case then why have races? Why provide different playing strategies? Why not just give everyone the same ships and go with it? Because it sounds to me like your saying we can do what we want - BUT - if we want to win we better go X-race and play X-style.
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Unread 18 Mar 2007, 14:49   #52
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Re: And now for something different.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal
Some food for thought:

Yes the stats and xp this round were a mess,

BUT - surely everyone knew all the formulae and stats at the start of the round - if one particular person, group, alliance adapts to this best and wins surely it shows they are using the correct tactics etc for a given round - people can complain about the balence issues etc., but in the end the winners still did a better job than anyone else - if it was a play for XP round, why didn't everyone adapt and play like that?

In general you don't complain about how a particualr game doesn't play the way you want to play it, you learn how to play a particular game - sure you can lobby for feature changes - but not on the grounds that the current game doesn't suit your style, but on the grounds that you think another way of doing things will be more fun.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amycus
DeLoS winning was a good show imo and well diserved.

However, in regards to what Kal said, if you have a game that is meant to be diverse in races, then when it's over say:


If this was the case then why have races? Why provide different playing strategies? Why not just give everyone the same ships and go with it? Because it sounds to me like your saying we can do what we want - BUT - if we want to win we better go X-race and play X-style.
These are great posts, but they really aren't of relevance to AD and quite honestly would probably be far more useful on another part of the forum (PD/PS/SD?). If anyone can suggest a good thread to move them to via pm I'd be grateful.

Cheers,

Lok
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Unread 18 Mar 2007, 16:56   #53
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Re: And now for something different.

I just love how everyone has such great heinsight. He adapted his game to suit the current formula and win. That's not cheating, it's not immoral, it's not just 'proving a point'...it's called playing the game the way it's set up.

Yes, the XP formula should've been fixed pre-round, and the stats should've been more fine tuned, but throwing a bitch fit about it after the round is over seems pointless. Saying that winning by knowing how to play the game as it's set up is also pointless, if people would get off there high horse and adapt to the game instead of wishing the game would adapt to there style they'd probably have more fun.

But I don't ever see this happening, what fun would it be to have a round where everyone agrees on stats, xp, and everything...then they wouldn't be able to complain when they or there alliance didn't win.
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Unread 19 Mar 2007, 05:53   #54
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Re: And now for something different.

It's strange that you posted this on AD considering the only really alliance-related part of it is your attack on Ascendancy, or some part of the alliance anyways (maybe you could provide us with some names).

I'm not sure if all of us enjoy playing a primarily xp-dominated way, it's just that was the best way to play this round due to a few factors, lack of a militarily dominant alliance, the addition of new ships and the zero-loss defence element. Nor are we all just sitting here moaning and whining, six of the threads on the front page of the suggestions forum were posted by ascendancy members for example and a number of ascendancy members have spent, or are spending, considerable time helping this game.

Understandably not all of us are complete carebears who run around hugging each other and jerking off alliances we may think are largely boring, unoriginal or otherwise rubbish. That's just who we are, abusive, psychotic and variously different. I imagine you're rather irritated by the lack of credit given to your alliance after it won its first round. However a lot of people just aren't going to be that impressed by the narrowest margin of victory in PA history. As a man who I've been told knows what a successful alliance looks like posted after last round
Quote:
With Exi (and 1up) not playing next round some crap alliance can finally win - make the most of it - and when you celebrate remember that you're only winning because noone decent is left playing, not because you're actually half-competent.
I just chucked that in because I like stirring up trouble
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Unread 20 Mar 2007, 01:54   #55
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Re: And now for something different.

There didn't appear to be an alliance that "deserved" victory over another. No great war was fought, or great political manouvere or sheer class that earned a victory.

It just seemed like the alliance with the most grit and determination pulled through. I think Lokken said at the start of the round that CT would win on merely grinding out a victory.

Which if we face it, it wasn't a spectacular victory. But a victory nevertheless.
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Unread 20 Mar 2007, 09:52   #56
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Re: And now for something different.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowly
All these value players are just crying into their pillows at night because instead of bashing on people 1/3 their size and stealing their roids, the people 1/3 their size are now bashing on them and outscoring them.

'I've played since rd 2 and xp has ruined my life!'

Adapt, boys and girls, stop moaning that you can't actually play the game as it's set out and see if you can learn to.

good you mention it...if all adapt you the XP way of play there is no more XP way of play m8

And to answer kal on his "out of the loop comment"

Get a clue Kal nopt ALL PA players want to play the XP way of play, ac lot of ppl like the old way of playing aka playing for value.
Dont go tell ppl they have to change the way they like to play if those ppl are the paying customers that keep you in your job in PA.

It's called bad marketing if you do so
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Unread 20 Mar 2007, 09:56   #57
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Re: And now for something different.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gimmick
There didn't appear to be an alliance that "deserved" victory over another. No great war was fought, or great political manouvere or sheer class that earned a victory.

It just seemed like the alliance with the most grit and determination pulled through. I think Lokken said at the start of the round that CT would win on merely grinding out a victory.

Which if we face it, it wasn't a spectacular victory. But a victory nevertheless.
If you where not part of a top 3 alliance and you didn't see the incomming they had all round I doubt it's your call to say who deserves what and when.

Yes it was close, very close, wasnt that what some ppl moaned about too ? that it's allways the winning alliance decided weeks before the end ?

You know what.

I'm done with this, no matter what ppl do some will allways complain (you can never please all but some are never happy)
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Unread 20 Mar 2007, 10:20   #58
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Re: And now for something different.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ace
good you mention it...if all adapt you the XP way of play there is no more XP way of play m8
This isn't true. It was vaguely true in r16 (although even then the guy with more roids has more value) with the xp formula now also being based on score you can gain from that. Note that I'm not advocating this, I'm merely pointing out that saying it's de facto impossible is untrue.

Quote:
If you where not part of a top 3 alliance and you didn't see the incomming they had all round I doubt it's your call to say who deserves what and when.
fyi the inc you get can be seen by your gal-mates on the gal status.

Quote:
Yes it was close, very close, wasnt that what some ppl moaned about too ? that it's allways the winning alliance decided weeks before the end ?
This wasn't so a much a moment of decision as an arbitrary point in time. I wouldn't have been that surprised, certainly much less so than in any previous round, if another alliance had been in first place if the round had lasted a week longer. Obviously it's bad if the winning alliance is decided too quickly but it's rather unsatisfying if it's not really decided at all.

Quote:
I'm done with this, no matter what ppl do some will allways complain (you can never please all but some are never happy)
Those damn whiners starting all these threads on AD
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Unread 20 Mar 2007, 10:51   #59
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Re: And now for something different.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
This isn't true. It was vaguely true in r16 (although even then the guy with more roids has more value) with the xp formula now also being based on score you can gain from that. Note that I'm not advocating this, I'm merely pointing out that saying it's de facto impossible is untrue.

fyi the inc you get can be seen by your gal-mates on the gal status.

This wasn't so a much a moment of decision as an arbitrary point in time. I wouldn't have been that surprised, certainly much less so than in any previous round, if another alliance had been in first place if the round had lasted a week longer. Obviously it's bad if the winning alliance is decided too quickly but it's rather unsatisfying if it's not really decided at all.

Those damn whiners starting all these threads on AD

I allways thought of you as someone with brains and commen sence.
gal members can see incomming yes but do they see the total incomming and from who ? no way
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Unread 20 Mar 2007, 11:01   #60
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Re: And now for something different.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ace
I allways thought of you as someone with brains and commen sence.
Running out of arguments, are we? Why else would you have to attack Jonny on on that level?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ace
gal members can see incomming yes but do they see the total incomming
They do not see the total incoming, but just like your alliance other alliances also have members in different galaxies. Just because your alliance was unable to track them all down and as such you wouldn't know what the enemy knows, doesn't mean that the enemy knows nothing at all.
Apart from that it's also easy to see how many incoming you in particular got. In a full scale war that would be a significant amount higher than usual.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ace
and from who ?
Yes. Other alliances also have intel.
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Unread 20 Mar 2007, 11:18   #61
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Re: And now for something different.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heartless
Running out of arguments, are we? Why else would you have to attack Jonny on on that level?

They do not see the total incoming, but just like your alliance other alliances also have members in different galaxies. Just because your alliance was unable to track them all down and as such you wouldn't know what the enemy knows, doesn't mean that the enemy knows nothing at all.
Apart from that it's also easy to see how many incoming you in particular got. In a full scale war that would be a significant amount higher than usual.

Yes. Other alliances also have intel.

Nope hearty not running out of arguments just never seen him post like that.

ofc other alliances have intel too and ofc we had that too what are you talking about hearty ?
handing out intel to alliances again m8 ?

you got no idea waht we had incomming every day so plz stop posting nonsence with your fullscale war thingy.
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Unread 20 Mar 2007, 11:22   #62
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Re: And now for something different.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ace
good you mention it...if all adapt you the XP way of play there is no more XP way of play m8
actually the more players who play 'for xp' the less profitable and sensible it is to play as a value planet because there won't be as much roids around to pay off enough over daily xp gains the xp whores would get.
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Unread 20 Mar 2007, 12:17   #63
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Re: And now for something different.

Can you please stop talking about the amount of incomming you got, your calls averaged to about 45 calls a day, which is basically nothing. As you stated in your eorc, you had x amount of calls (i cba looking it up) and i know for fact you didnt wait till week 4 before sending def or whatever you said, it was more around the week 2 mark. Unless you are actually saying you didnt 'war' destiny at the start of the round, and just let them pick up all your roids for free
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Unread 20 Mar 2007, 12:28   #64
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Re: And now for something different.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
This isn't true. It was vaguely true in r16 (although even then the guy with more roids has more value) with the xp formula now also being based on score you can gain from that. Note that I'm not advocating this, I'm merely pointing out that saying it's de facto impossible is untrue.
Certainly from my experiences this round i'd say that xp players with low value had a much higher amount of incomings. As a high value to lowish score ratio xan i had a hell of a lot less incs from xp players than the high score low value etds in gal who had similar roids. As it is atm you don't really need value players to xp whore off.
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Unread 20 Mar 2007, 13:04   #65
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Re: And now for something different.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ace
you got no idea waht we had incomming every day so plz stop posting nonsence with your fullscale war thingy.
Agreed, I cannot state anything about what your incoming looked exactly like, but as stated and reasoned in the post you quoted, it's not that hard to get samples from which one can draw conclusions. And of course you won't agree with any conclusions because it is not in your interest, cause you try to justify this rounds win as something like hard work, which it certainly was not when compared to what 1up and exi did.
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Unread 20 Mar 2007, 13:06   #66
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Re: And now for something different.

ooohhh ofc no one will ever get to work as hard as 1up or exi did right ?

Get real.
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Unread 20 Mar 2007, 13:10   #67
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Re: And now for something different.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ace
ooohhh ofc no one will ever get to work as hard as 1up or exi did right ?

Get real.
Yeah, because the remaining alliances simply are incapable of doing so. If they really would want to be as good they should simply do the things necessary. I'll leave it as an exercise to you to figure out what that means. Hint: It does not mean avoiding incoming at all costs.
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Unread 20 Mar 2007, 13:18   #68
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Re: And now for something different.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ace
good you mention it...if all adapt you the XP way of play there is no more XP way of play m8

And to answer kal on his "out of the loop comment"

Get a clue Kal nopt ALL PA players want to play the XP way of play, ac lot of ppl like the old way of playing aka playing for value.
Dont go tell ppl they have to change the way they like to play if those ppl are the paying customers that keep you in your job in PA.

It's called bad marketing if you do so
Last round was a value round, so Ascendancy played with zik, used fleetcatching and our other tried and trusted methods for gaining value. Although let me make it plain, you could have played with XP last round and done alright last round too, but probably not win.

This round looked set up for XP on the stats, so Ascendancy played largely for XP except for jer and maybe someone else.

This is called adaptation. If you don't have the sense to do this when it happens and cry about it because its XP and that activity and value somehow implies 'skills' then you're very very much mistaken. If everyone adapts, well there are people in 1:5 and 4:10 last round who can pretty much verify that my score is pretty much built from roiding their Etd XP whores. Please, learn how the game works. It would just become a matter of me outroiding every other XP whore, which yes is boring, but hey, Ascendancy are posting on PD and PS as to how we might avoid it!

All Kal was saying that if the stats don't turn out like they are meant to, you've got to adapt and that's exactly what Ascendancy does. XP is useful, but if the game doesn't work with it properly, it's counterproductive, much like this round, but that doesn't mean you shun it because its not your cup of tea, you get on with it.

As an aside, re Alki's stat that he quoted:

In the end of round ceremony, CT quoted 1550 covered calls. Over 46 combat days this equates to 33 covered calls per day, just over half per member per day. If you accept the 'we didn't defend for 2 weeks' (35 combat days) that Alki quoted, it rises to 44.2 calls which is shade under 0.7 per member per day. This isn't a lot considering an XP whore could get a sniff above 300 rocks and have 6 waves on him. So the 'lots of incoming card' and quoting a big number was pretty much a false economy in terms of being an impressive stat. If it is impressive relative to their level of incoming, then they can't have had much relative to everyone else and CT held roids reasonably well apart from 3 or 4 occasions, looking at their graph.
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Unread 20 Mar 2007, 13:22   #69
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Re: And now for something different.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lokken
In the end of round ceremonly, CT quoted 1550 covered calls. Over 46 combat days this equates to 33 covered calls per day, just over half per member per day. If you accept the 'we didn't defend for 2 weeks' (35 combat days) that Alki quoted, it rises to 44.2 calls which is shade under 0.7 per member per day. This isn't a lot considering an XP whore could get a sniff above 300 rocks and have 6 waves on him. So the 'lots of incoming card' and quoting a big number was pretty much a false economy in terms of being an impressive stat.
Good point. That's only the calls that were covered though. Wouldn't the uncovered tell us a lot more about under how heavy a fire they have been compared to their strength?
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Unread 20 Mar 2007, 13:42   #70
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Re: And now for something different.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hook
Good point. That's only the calls that were covered though. Wouldn't the uncovered tell us a lot more about under how heavy a fire they have been compared to their strength?
Well like I said, compare it to how well they held roids and you'll find out roughly how much incoming they had. Combine that with gal statuses and you get a more accurate picture.

I've edited my post above, so you might want to read it again. I'm sure they had incoming but relative to everyone else, quite possibly not as much as they would like people to think.
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Unread 20 Mar 2007, 13:46   #71
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Re: And now for something different.

Just to put the "1550 def calls" into context:

Quote:
Originally Posted by R15 EORC
<[eX-HC]Kaifux> for some statistics: we had just a bit less than 6k fleets incoming + unreported, that's pretty 4.75~ fleets per tick, yes it was pretty busy
Quote:
Originally Posted by R18 EORC
<+[eX]bwtmc> we had 5000 total incoming fleets (3468 defence calls)
<+[eX]bwtmc> 1up were by far the most hostile alliance
<+[eX]bwtmc> 1130 defence calls
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Unread 20 Mar 2007, 13:50   #72
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Re: And now for something different.

Nice stats, but I don't want to be unfair to CT as some of their HC haven't compared themselves to 1up or Ex - angryduck in fairness shied away from that. What I want to pick at them about is how they think their incoming stands up compared to everyone else.
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Unread 20 Mar 2007, 14:02   #73
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Re: And now for something different.

kila's stats are not an apples to apples comparison, those rounds were longer than 7 weeks, so pointless to use those as a comparison.

can't remember who it was above that said we defended 2 weeks into the round, that isn't accurate. We began defending in an organized manner the evening of 2/16/07, so 3 weeks in, which meant 1 month of defending.

Hostile Alliance History

Total Calls:
(Approx) Total COVERED Calls: 1968

VGN: 1047
Destiny: 827
Ascendancy: 228
Newdawn: 236
F Crew: 187
Tides of Fire: 115
TGV: 93
xVx: 68
Orbit: 57
Myth: 38
h3lls angels: 32
Hidden Agenda: 27
unknown/others: 156

total 3111 63% coverage (these numbers I pulled directly from our defence tools)

Destiny came at us immediatly out of protection, so if we had tracked incoming in those first 3 weeks, those numbers would ofcourse reflect a fair amount of incoming in addition to what tools tracked above.
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Unread 20 Mar 2007, 14:10   #74
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Re: And now for something different.

I don't think Ace intends to compare CT's first round to the strenght of 1up in it's prime, eXi in it's prime, or for that matter the LCH team that 1up battled. I certainly wouldn't make that comparison. We kept things simple in CT, as it was our first round in, we didn't want to complicate things. We were not the War machine those alliance were, but we did attack consistantly, and when we needed a good push offensively, we got it. We were not bored, our Defence Officers had plenty to do. We are a different alliance, and in the environment we played our first round in with stats the way they were, it took a grind it out team affort to get it done. If the round had gone longer, who knows what would have happened, but it's pointless to speculate, as VGN, Destiny, and CT all hung in the fight the entire round, so as the last week could have seen any of those three emerge victorious, a longer round could have seen that same scenario, there's just no way of telling. There WERE some political moves made that payed off by CT, and allthough we didn't call CNN when they were made, they were made nonetheless. We fielded a good team, players worked well together and no one put themselves in front of the alliance, with one exception, and that player left the tag with 3 days in the round. Another player left the day after. Those 2 planets totaled about 5.5 mil - 6 mil score.
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Unread 20 Mar 2007, 14:16   #75
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Re: And now for something different.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aNgRyDuCk
kila's stats are not an apples to apples comparison, those rounds were longer than 7 weeks, so pointless to use those as a comparison.
Agreed.

Quote:
can't remember who it was above that said we defended 2 weeks into the round, that isn't accurate. We began defending in an organized manner the evening of 2/16/07, so 3 weeks in, which meant 1 month of defending.
"in an organised manner" pretty much makes this statement worthless. Alki's stat was an observation.

Quote:
Hostile Alliance History

Total Calls:
(Approx) Total COVERED Calls: 1968

VGN: 1047
Destiny: 827
Ascendancy: 228
Newdawn: 236
F Crew: 187
Tides of Fire: 115
TGV: 93
xVx: 68
Orbit: 57
Myth: 38
h3lls angels: 32
Hidden Agenda: 27
others: 156

total 3111 63% coverage (these numbers I pulled directly from our defence tools)
3111, thanks very much for that stat, no idea when you were collecting data from so here goes anyway:

Over 46 combat days this equates to 67 hostile fleets per day, which equates to approximately just over 1 incoming per member per day.

Over 35 combat days this equates to 88 hostile fleets per day, which equates to approximately just over 1.4 incomings per member per day

Over 28 combat days this equates to 111 hostile fleets per day which equates to just over 1.7 incomings per member per day. As this is your best stat, it works out to roughly 47 waves per member over the space of a month.
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Unread 20 Mar 2007, 14:17   #76
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Re: And now for something different.

Just to ask, aNgRyDuCk, how many of your members asked not to receive any defence or not to have their calls reported, perhaps because they intended to XP-whore?
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Unread 20 Mar 2007, 14:22   #77
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Re: And now for something different.

Quote:
Originally Posted by furball
Just to ask, aNgRyDuCk, how many of your members asked not to receive any defence or not to have their calls reported, perhaps because they intended to XP-whore?
in those first 3 weeks, members were told to get defence from their galaxies and clusters. afterwards, no one was directly put on no defence( not including scanners, who we only defended vs structure killers), and priority was arranged by the amount of defence fleets each member sent. I don't personally remember anyone saying to me "don't defend me" but I realize there may have been a small amount of players that did so, Germania could verify the accuracy of that since he tracked it. I can think of 2 right off the top of my head but as I said, there could have been more.
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Unread 20 Mar 2007, 14:26   #78
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Re: And now for something different.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lokken
"in an organised manner" pretty much makes this statement worthless. Alki's stat was an observation.
it means our tools didn't track incoming fleets until the evening of Feb 16. It is what it is


Quote:
Originally Posted by lokken
3111, thanks very much for that stat, no idea when you were collecting data from so here goes anyway:

Over 46 combat days this equates to 67 hostile fleets per day, which equates to approximately just over 1 incoming per member per day.

Over 35 combat days this equates to 88 hostile fleets per day, which equates to approximately just over 1.4 incomings per member per day

Over 28 combat days this equates to 111 hostile fleets per day which equates to just over 1.7 incomings per member per day. As this is your best stat, it works out to roughly 47 waves per member over the space of a month.
Feb 16 to March 16 - 28 days
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Unread 20 Mar 2007, 14:32   #79
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Re: And now for something different.

Started counting back from the last pa tick (ignored havoc etc). I reached 47 by just after tick 1000 (just over a week back).

Not exactly illuminating as I'm just one planet, but you see what I'm talking about.
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Unread 20 Mar 2007, 14:46   #80
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Re: And now for something different.

so 3111 fleets over 28 days, 4.6 fleets per tick in the last 28 days of the round. eXi had 4.75 per tick for the whole of R15 so it's not like CT didn't get any incs, but I'm sure that if we discount protection and times when eXi weren't at war (not much actually) it would go up.

Quote:
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it means our tools didn't track incoming fleets until the evening of Feb 16. It is what it is
Feb 16th, I had a good day!
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Unread 20 Mar 2007, 14:50   #81
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Re: And now for something different.

it's pointless for me to attempt to guage what CT was capable of as opposed to alliances that didn't play in the same environment CT played in, with that in mind, like I said above, our DC's weren't bored. When we needed a push offensively, we got it, the last night being a good illustration of that. If we had sat on our thumbs and expected the win to fall into our laps the last day, it's likely Destiny would have overtaken CT, so we went into attack mode and gained over 6k roids and the xp/score that comes with them that evening/morning. I'm not going to sit here and attempt to belittle what those war machines got done, I am also not going to discount what CT got done in the battles it fought.
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Unread 20 Mar 2007, 14:54   #82
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Re: And now for something different.

with the statistics that you've shown; it's fair to say that you haven't had an "easy" round but many people (myself included) will question the way that you handled your politics as you spent much of the round doing galraids (you getting many incs at this stage doesn't justify it)
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Unread 20 Mar 2007, 15:00   #83
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Re: And now for something different.

we raided in the manner that most effectively allowed our members to land fleets and gain score. Some nights, galaxy raids got that done, others, we targetted opponents directly. Politically, we made the moves we needed to make to put ourselves in a position to win, obviously. Let's be clear here. It was not our intention to top what 1up, or eXi did. It was in fact our first round as an alliance. Our mission was to win round 20, nothing more. Just as our mission now is to win round 21, much like the other alliances that will field a team in the upcoming round.
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Unread 20 Mar 2007, 15:57   #84
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Re: And now for something different.

i played value this round as all rounds i have played , being #4 in value makes u quite hard get any xp , and if u get xp is few , in comparasion what xp-whores get , so there is no chance to win . i had been top 10 roid all round , since beggining and although i have had tons of roids my income and my steals had been quite good and , i was never able to join top 10 coz xp-whores outgrow me daily with their landings.
Xp was made to make other ppl no so active play the game and have succes , but doesnt looks like this atm , now its like if the ppl playing for value (usually more active) dont have a chance to win.
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Unread 20 Mar 2007, 16:05   #85
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Re: And now for something different.

:whine: Seriously i started off playing for value, as i do any other round, i still ended with respectable value, I just realised that with 5 days left, I needed big lands, so i went to get them. Top 10 in roids means nothing, who you land on does mean something
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Unread 20 Mar 2007, 16:28   #86
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Re: And now for something different.

i told i was top 10 roids uni , pointing at the income in resources i get daily that counts too , coz make grow in value= score . i wont changed the way to play , i wont do it , im not whining just telling the small guys whine coz they were bashed , then now the big guys whine coz they are bashed too, and u will be with me that the effort a value players puts in his planet is not the same than a xp planet i have saw it this round with dedin and cutulin as examples.
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Unread 20 Mar 2007, 16:43   #87
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Re: And now for something different.

i'm not sure these comparing incoming stats achieves anything: i don't believe even any ct has made a claim that they deserve to be compared to that of a top tier alliance or that ct is even remotely close to the plateau of exi/1up, and it's pretty obvious why. they won this round fair and square, just like elysium won r10 and fang won r10.5. let's leave that at that.

what i do have an issue is with people who are adamant to not wanting to change to a game's situation: that's just stupidity, the best players are the ones who can adjust accordingly and be as versatile. HOWEVER THIS IS NOT A SUPPORT FOR 'XP WHORING' - i'm all for a WAR(ROAR) game, but you can't blame anyone but yourself if someone gets a higher score than you because they used game FEATURES in a more EFFICIENT manner than you. regardless of how much the game features sux.
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Unread 20 Mar 2007, 16:57   #88
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Re: And now for something different.

Why Xp was implemented in game?
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Unread 20 Mar 2007, 17:31   #89
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Re: And now for something different.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Felagund
Why Xp was implemented in game?
So that we can point and laugh at people like you which fail to adapt to changes?

Edit: Yes I know this ain't constructive, but seriously, if some people still complain after a dozen rounds of xp's existance instead of offering reasonable alternatives / solutions I fail to see a reason to be constructive towards such people.
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Unread 20 Mar 2007, 18:47   #90
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Re: And now for something different.

to encourage people to attack above their own size and to not be able to ground someone's score down completely i think
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Unread 20 Mar 2007, 19:16   #91
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Re: And now for something different.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ace
I allways thought of you as someone with brains and commen sence.
gal members can see incomming yes but do they see the total incomming and from who ? no way
Actually I used to check the incoming on the ct members in my gal, sometimes because they asked but mostly because I was curious. I'm not belittling your accomplishments here (well maybe I am but I'm not saying you didn't win the round or you cheated someone out of it or something equally daft) and I think angryduck states your position quite well in a few of the posts above this. I just feel this was a really inconclusive round in some ways. To compare to something like r18 exilition had pretty much finished with the business of winning the round before the round actually stopped. This was pretty much the same with most other rounds (r6 was obviously not exactly done and dusted when ticks stopped, probably even less so than r8 which ended prematurely). I'm not saying you had to produce a military effort equal to those alliances, I'm just saying I find it hard to give a lot of credit without more closure. Obviously you seem to be mistaking this for whining.


Quote:
Originally Posted by angryduck
we raided in the manner that most effectively allowed our members to land fleets and gain score.
I think you probably took a too short-term view of this. Sure by mid-round you were in the situation that galaxy raids probably were almost as good for you as gaining score and you knew there were actions x, y and z you could take that would you give you score a, b and c which would probably be enough to win the round. However if you go after your opponents early on in the right fashion you can take sub-standard score gains then for an overall superior score bonus later on. Maybe that was impossible this round for various reasons though.
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Unread 20 Mar 2007, 19:47   #92
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Re: And now for something different.

I think to a certain extent you missed my point Ace.

In no way do I begrudge the victory of what is well earned for CT (or for that matter any alliance that win n.b. Hi Ascendancy round 16)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gimmick
Which if we face it, it wasn't a spectacular victory. But a victory nevertheless.
That was my main point. It didn't seem like a convincing victory.

I could harp on about how I launched 200 fleets this round, but my galaxy mate probably did the same.

Granted CT may have received a job lot of calls although 1500 over 60 days doesn't seem like that many. In fact it's 25 calls a day. Also you didn't defend for the first 2 weeks, so lets knock off 15 (1 for good measure, thats 45) That's still only 33 calls a day. Not a great amount.

If you were at war, getting 33 calls a tick would be a lot of incoming. I am also pretty sure that the magic top 3 had pretty much the same amount of incoming as each other.

No great wars were fought, but like I said earlier a victory is a victory.
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Unread 20 Mar 2007, 19:58   #93
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Re: And now for something different.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Felagund
i played value this round as all rounds i have played , being #4 in value makes u quite hard get any xp , and if u get xp is few , in comparasion what xp-whores get , so there is no chance to win . i had been top 10 roid all round , since beggining and although i have had tons of roids my income and my steals had been quite good and , i was never able to join top 10 coz xp-whores outgrow me daily with their landings.
Xp was made to make other ppl no so active play the game and have succes , but doesnt looks like this atm , now its like if the ppl playing for value (usually more active) dont have a chance to win.
actually I believe there was a 5 to 5 split in the top10 of value players to xp players, and if caj and agony didnt nub it up late in the round, a value player would have won. If you werent able to join the top10 as a value player its becuase you werent able to hold onto your roids to create enough value.

All this talk about how hard it was with how many hostile fleets inc, my ticks roided was in the 40s and no complaints here!
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Unread 20 Mar 2007, 23:52   #94
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Re: And now for something different.

Goat i was not able to reach top 10 , for reasons like recall when m8s ask me to do it , or coz i was bored as hell ,waiting something to happen .just my roids and my lands didnt give me enough score to have the same grow as u.

heartless im not complaining i just play the game like i want ,and i liked play value this round and is the only way i like to play coz i like do calcs and combinations (im zik), for this reason i dislike xp coz u just need one kind of ships. But i play and i enjoy my way .
Atm dont have space in my head to think about how to improve game , i only play, i like ppl like u ,who are worried and give their time for the game, i cant(havent played a beta )

i have done a question: why was implemented xp in the game? , what pa team want get with it ?(not complain just ignorance)
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Unread 20 Mar 2007, 23:56   #95
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Re: And now for something different.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Felagund
i have done a question: why was implemented xp in the game? , what pa team want get with it ?(not complain just ignorance)
It was to give people a chance of recovering. Before XP, your whole round could be quite ruined after you've been attacked once. That's not the case now though, and I doubt they intended XP to play such an extreme role as it does now.
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Unread 21 Mar 2007, 01:43   #96
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Re: And now for something different.

it was also an attempt to "balance" the gap between small players and large ones, giving the small player who was getting bashed all the time a chance to strike back at the larger players.
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Unread 21 Mar 2007, 10:54   #97
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Re: And now for something different.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gimmick
I think to a certain extent you missed my point Ace.

In no way do I begrudge the victory of what is well earned for CT (or for that matter any alliance that win n.b. Hi Ascendancy round 16)



That was my main point. It didn't seem like a convincing victory.

I could harp on about how I launched 200 fleets this round, but my galaxy mate probably did the same.

Granted CT may have received a job lot of calls although 1500 over 60 days doesn't seem like that many. In fact it's 25 calls a day. Also you didn't defend for the first 2 weeks, so lets knock off 15 (1 for good measure, thats 45) That's still only 33 calls a day. Not a great amount.

If you were at war, getting 33 calls a tick would be a lot of incoming. I am also pretty sure that the magic top 3 had pretty much the same amount of incoming as each other.

No great wars were fought, but like I said earlier a victory is a victory.
My point was that when its a win weeks ahead ppl moan and when it's as close as it was now ppl moan too

about the call volume, I said we had 1500 covered calls I didn't say we had 1500 calls, thats a difference.
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Unread 21 Mar 2007, 10:58   #98
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Re: And now for something different.

Ace you know you cant please everyone 100% of the time, there will always be someone bitching no matter how the round turns out.
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Unread 21 Mar 2007, 11:00   #99
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Re: And now for something different.

I suggest bribery.
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Unread 21 Mar 2007, 11:06   #100
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Re: And now for something different.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGoaT
Ace you know you cant please everyone 100% of the time, there will always be someone bitching no matter how the round turns out.
I know m8 but it stikes me as weird every time i see the same old same old on forums
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