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Unread 4 Mar 2014, 17:06   #151
isildurx
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Re: Round 56 shipsstats

http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?
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Unread 4 Mar 2014, 17:40   #152
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Re: Round 56 shipsstats

Quote:
Originally Posted by isildurx View Post
Yes it's strong, but unlike round 55 it only targets 3 classes. Caths need to build at least 4 ships, so their efficiency have to be high.

edit:

The beetle has a bit higher efficiency than round 55
The viper has no T2
There is A LOT more available fi/co class anti co def available compared to last round

Bottom line: I don't think cath co is too good. Don't get me wrong, it's really good, but it's no better than normal.

Well if viper targets de t1. The Pegasus t1 should change to co. It's worth trying IMO. It might open ter up to fi a little too
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Unread 4 Mar 2014, 18:21   #153
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Re: Round 56 shipsstats

I might swap the targetting of the peg yeah, anyone else have opinions on this?
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Unread 4 Mar 2014, 19:10   #154
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Re: Round 56 shipsstats

Seems reasonable, with Banshee T2 against De as well.
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Unread 4 Mar 2014, 20:00   #155
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Re: Round 56 shipsstats

Pegasus now a DE with T1= CO T2 = FI
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Unread 4 Mar 2014, 22:03   #156
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Re: Round 56 shipsstats

Update:

Lowered the armor of the Pegasus and Drake slightly(about 4-5%) to be more in line with the overall efficiency of Zik DE

I'm also trying to remove the 15% terran salvage bonus which has annoyed me for many rounds now, really no reason for it to still be there.
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Unread 6 Mar 2014, 22:03   #157
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Re: Round 56 shipsstats

General opinion:

Ter looks good.
DE fleet + Harpy and you look rather covered all around.
Even with Fi and Bs at T2 it shouldn't really be a problem.

Cath seems to have to much EMP in my opinion.

Xan is rather hard to look at until I try it.
I believe the problem with so many ships is that stats look a bit overdefensive with these targets.

Zik has no Co at T1.
I'd switch T's on Thief.
Also way too many Norm targeting with sooooo lower inits. It's like Ter but better. People complain about Tiamat's stats...but this looks worse.
Maybe I'm wrong, it's just an opinion after all.

Love the ETD setup, seems very balanced.


It's getting rather boring to see the constant attack fleets across the races.
Ter gets FR/DE and BS.
Cath with CO and CR.
Etc
Etc

Yes yes I'm complaining/criticising and I ain't giving another options.
It's really just an opinion.
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Unread 6 Mar 2014, 22:11   #158
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Re: Round 56 shipsstats

very similar opinion to me
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Unread 6 Mar 2014, 22:55   #159
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Re: Round 56 shipsstats

Ehh, zik has one ship with a really low init.... Zik has many normal ships å) so they are better at attacking and b) so they dont steal useless ships
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Unread 6 Mar 2014, 23:07   #160
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Re: Round 56 shipsstats

Quote:
Originally Posted by isildurx View Post
Ehh, zik has one ship with a really low init.... Zik has many normal ships å) so they are better at attacking and b) so they dont steal useless ships
Being high or low it's rather relative.

Just look at Pirates for instance. What can stop them from firing 1st?
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Unread 7 Mar 2014, 00:05   #161
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Re: Round 56 shipsstats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fruntxas View Post
Being high or low it's rather relative.

Just look at Pirates for instance. What can stop them from firing 1st?
Scorpions fire first but pirates do fire first kill wise.
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Unread 7 Mar 2014, 07:47   #162
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Re: Round 56 shipsstats

WHat can stop pirates for firing first?

How about;

Rogue init 5
Black WIdow init 3
Tarantula init 2
Investor init 5
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Unread 7 Mar 2014, 08:47   #163
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Re: Round 56 shipsstats

Quote:
Originally Posted by isildurx View Post
WHat can stop pirates for firing first?

How about;

Rogue init 5
Black WIdow init 3
Tarantula init 2
Investor init 5
think he might mean Rogue?
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Unread 7 Mar 2014, 09:22   #164
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Re: Round 56 shipsstats

Well, some ships have to fire "first". Etd, zik, xan and ter all have at least one such ship. If you want balanced stats where every race can solo then that's how it has to be.
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Unread 7 Mar 2014, 09:42   #165
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Re: Round 56 shipsstats

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Originally Posted by isildurx View Post
Well, some ships have to fire "first". Etd, zik, xan and ter all have at least one such ship. If you want balanced stats where every race can solo then that's how it has to be.
i have no complaints about it. I really like these stats
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Unread 7 Mar 2014, 12:35   #166
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Re: Round 56 shipsstats

i would like 3 pod classes
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Unread 7 Mar 2014, 13:13   #167
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Re: Round 56 shipsstats

Maybe next time!

Personally I wouldn't mind a set of stats where every race had 3 podclasses and/or a stealship each!
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Unread 7 Mar 2014, 14:23   #168
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Re: Round 56 shipsstats

it would allow more races in alliances strats
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Unread 7 Mar 2014, 15:30   #169
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Re: Round 56 shipsstats

Quote:
Originally Posted by isildurx View Post
Maybe next time!

Personally I wouldn't mind a set of stats where every race had 3 podclasses and/or a stealship each!
That'd be way more complicated in my opinion.
You can already achieve that in some races (or other rounds), by stealing the specific pod-class through warpdrive.

Regarding the init of races (and the pirate discussion etc), I'd take a look at the Xan's race description:
" Their weapons, on average, kill faster and with more power than other races; unfortunately, this comes at the expense of their ships' armour."

I'm not saying it should be like this for all xan ships.
But it could help with init problem.
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Unread 7 Mar 2014, 15:46   #170
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Re: Round 56 shipsstats

On average xan DO "kill faster". ALL their ships can't have the lowest init

Also, that race description is about 50 rounds old and it's stupid to follow it incredibly close.

I don't see any init "problems"
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Unread 7 Mar 2014, 17:09   #171
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Re: Round 56 shipsstats

Quote:
Originally Posted by isildurx View Post
On average xan DO "kill faster". ALL their ships can't have the lowest init

Also, that race description is about 50 rounds old and it's stupid to follow it incredibly close.

I don't see any init "problems"
It also says they have fast class and low init SKs pal.
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Unread 7 Mar 2014, 22:32   #172
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Re: Round 56 shipsstats

Yeah where are my Co Sk's I need them!
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Unread 7 Mar 2014, 23:21   #173
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Re: Round 56 shipsstats

When will stats be final?
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Unread 7 Mar 2014, 23:27   #174
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Re: Round 56 shipsstats

They're in Appoco's hands now.
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Unread 8 Mar 2014, 02:01   #175
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Re: Round 56 shipsstats

I think cath CO is too strong per usual. Would be nice to reverse the T1/T2 to make it easier to flak against or out EMP. That's my biggest quam. But other than that i think there are a few different viable strategies with the stats.
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Unread 8 Mar 2014, 03:04   #176
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Re: Round 56 shipsstats

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I think cath CO is too strong per usual. Would be nice to reverse the T1/T2 to make it easier to flak against or out EMP. That's my biggest quam. But other than that i think there are a few different viable strategies with the stats.
I agree, CO is too strong again - moderate to big waves will be impossible to stop.
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Unread 8 Mar 2014, 04:18   #177
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Re: Round 56 shipsstats

Co will be just as strong as it is in most rounds. Stoppable with any number of def fleets depending on the attackfleets.
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Unread 8 Mar 2014, 09:34   #178
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Re: Round 56 shipsstats

I think you guys are suffering from recency bias. Yes cath co is good, it always is, but it's far from as good as it was last round.
Beetle T2 isn't frightening imo, and gl to caths hoping to easly hit DE-heavy planets
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Unread 8 Mar 2014, 18:53   #179
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Re: Round 56 shipsstats

Im quite liking the stats. I have 3 strategies in mind if I was to play
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Unread 8 Mar 2014, 19:02   #180
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Re: Round 56 shipsstats

Which you of course are!
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Unread 8 Mar 2014, 20:48   #181
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Re: Round 56 shipsstats

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Which you of course are!
I'm hoping that weekend speed games are brought back for my PA fix.

I'm semi retired from PA.
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Unread 8 Mar 2014, 23:51   #182
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Re: Round 56 shipsstats

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I'm toying with the idea of giving cath a third podclass(DE) and a DE->FICO EMP ship. It would probably have init 3, and Defenders change its init to 2.

Thoughts?

Obviously this would strengthen the DE class a lot, so might have to reduce some efficiencies. It would make the stats more offensive at least.
I agree that the set needs another DE atk fleet otherwise DE will be too weak and as Cath the way it is now can only team-up with Ziks so giving just it a 3rd pod class would not just give a Cath player more options but would increase the number of good ship strategies.
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Unread 9 Mar 2014, 00:18   #183
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Re: Round 56 shipsstats

Stats are set in stone now, and besides, lots of people would unfortunately go ballistic if cath had a third podclass and noone else did.
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Unread 9 Mar 2014, 14:47   #184
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Re: Round 56 shipsstats

The stats have improved alot since the first draft.
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Unread 10 Mar 2014, 14:10   #185
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Re: Round 56 shipsstats

So now that the stats have been finalised, at what point do we hear word of the changes to the goverments and races that was mentioned in the end of round mail that went out. I have been unable to see anything as of yet related to it on the forums.
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Unread 10 Mar 2014, 21:53   #186
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Re: Round 56 shipsstats

Appocomaster is the one thats going to make those changes, so far what i know if that anarchy is going to be made more harsh, and that Terran will lose there Bonus Salvage.
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Unread 10 Mar 2014, 22:15   #187
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Re: Round 56 shipsstats

I would like the governments to be finalised for sign ups.

Makes tick plans easier
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Unread 10 Mar 2014, 22:20   #188
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Re: Round 56 shipsstats

You're not even playing?
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Unread 10 Mar 2014, 22:23   #189
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Re: Round 56 shipsstats

I might do something like dist whore or some set up where uber activity isn't needed, but a few folk have asked me for advice for tick plans so will post something on SD once the round has been finalised.
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Unread 10 Mar 2014, 23:07   #190
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Re: Round 56 shipsstats

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Originally Posted by KatoZee View Post
So now that the stats have been finalised, at what point do we hear word of the changes to the goverments and races that was mentioned in the end of round mail that went out. I have been unable to see anything as of yet related to it on the forums.
[22:01] <Paisley_> are you looking to have things nailed for sign up appoco?
[22:01] <Paisley_> think someone on forums was asking about governments
[22:04] <@Appocomaster> signps are fgriday
[22:04] <@Appocomaster> will announce then
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Unread 11 Mar 2014, 00:23   #191
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Re: Round 56 shipsstats

Thank you Paisley, now that I know the stats and the release date of the upcoming updates I can start to plan the best way to play badly under the guise of doing the right thing (^^,)
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Unread 11 Mar 2014, 13:43   #192
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Re: Round 56 shipsstats

Because of the black widows 3 init. It is operating at a very low efficiency against the cr and etd bs. You may consider changing it to normal
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Unread 11 Mar 2014, 13:56   #193
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Re: Round 56 shipsstats

a few folk on IRC ive spoken to recon that the beetle is too strong fighter wise and needs tweaking.
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Unread 11 Mar 2014, 14:37   #194
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Re: Round 56 shipsstats

Take it up with Appoco. You might also consider that perhaps those people want to go Xan?

I've given my reasoning for the Beetle's high efficiency here several times;

1. There are lots of fi/co class anti co ships
2. The cath co only targets three classes (i.e cath have to build at least one additional ship compared to last round)

http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=tnbet3spj4orzbp

Doesn't look terrible overpowered to me. Yes soloing caths near your own value with xan fi might be hard, tough cheese, you still have etd, zik and xan to go for.
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Unread 11 Mar 2014, 15:43   #195
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Re: Round 56 shipsstats

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Take it up with Appoco. You might also consider that perhaps those people want to go Xan?
thats always a possibility, one does have to question motives

Had a look at http://beta.planetarion.com/history/history.php but doesn't give stats analysis on historical stats too show it is relatively high or its is in the "Cathaarrrrrgh" class

but overall I think you've done a decent job on the stats.
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Unread 11 Mar 2014, 15:47   #196
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Re: Round 56 shipsstats

Round 50 had a very similar cat co and xan fi makeup, compare these stats to them? I'm not sure what the efficiency was back then.
Beetle have 1 more gun and cost like 15% less in my stats, but xan cost a LOT less back then and had a lot higher emp res.
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Unread 11 Mar 2014, 18:36   #197
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Re: Round 56 shipsstats

In r50, Beetle stunned Xan Fi at 168% efficiency.
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Unread 11 Mar 2014, 18:57   #198
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Re: Round 56 shipsstats

Another thing to consider is that xans, that build Wraiths can Also FAKE with Wraiths on attack vs caths, since its at a t2, and given most caths wont build all beetles you likely will still be able to deal damage with wraiths at the lower emp %.
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Unread 11 Mar 2014, 19:03   #199
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Re: Round 56 shipsstats

Xans did alright in r50 considering it looks like Zik was way OP. Think I'll keep the beetle/ranger eff as is
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Unread 12 Mar 2014, 05:51   #200
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Re: Round 56 shipsstats

i wish etd was more appealing to me
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