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Unread 1 Oct 2010, 22:29   #1
ReVolt
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Run and Hide fleet option

So after a long absence from PA i returned to round 38. I though playing ZIK would be fun for steeling ships.

Turns out there's some new fangled option to have your fleet run and hide. Now while i have no objection to having this option for the casual players it really does beg the question, why have ships that can steel ships if everyone can have there fleet automatically moved.

I think a better solution would be to have a default selection for this for "stay and fight" and it would reset to this after 100 ticks of being set. You can change this at any time and have the 100 tick clock start.

This way if someone does stop playing and go inactive there fleet can be caped

the 100 ticks is just a random suggestion and may be to long or to short.
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Unread 1 Oct 2010, 22:53   #2
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Re: Run and Hide fleet option

Yeah the run and hide has made it a lot harder to steal random ships, but I personally don't mind (I played zik last round too). It just means you need to be a lot more active on defense (and get lucky) and participate in good Fleet catches. I managed to steal 150k terran DE that way, so it can be done. It just takes planning, you can't be lazy like many have been in the past.
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Unread 1 Oct 2010, 23:01   #3
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Re: Run and Hide fleet option

Still an idiot I see. I'll explain why...

1) There's already been threads about the run and hide option, and details all the pro's and cons and arguments for and against. No, I won't find it for you.

2) Steal ships can steal on defense too, so why you can't see the use for steal ships simply because you can't noob bash is anyone's guess. Oh, that's right, you're an idiot.

3) You can use covert ops to find out if a planet has fleet home or not (ship covop), and check idle times to see if they're likely to change status. Knowing if somebody's fleets are out saves you a lot of time.

4) The whole point of this was to protect people's fleets who can't be here 24/7 so that they're not bashed by somebody with nothing better to do with their time than play PA all day.

I don't think your absense was quite long enough to be honest.
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Last edited by t3k; 1 Oct 2010 at 23:29.
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Unread 1 Oct 2010, 23:17   #4
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Re: Run and Hide fleet option

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny

3) You can use covert ops to find out if a planet has fleet home or not (ship covop), and check idle times to see if they're likely to change status. Knowing if somebody's on 'run and hide' saves you a lot of time.
Ship covop still hits the base fleet even if its on run & hide..
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Unread 1 Oct 2010, 23:19   #5
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Re: Run and Hide fleet option

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Originally Posted by Kenny View Post
3) You can use covert ops to find out if a planet has fleet home or not (ship covop), and check idle times to see if they're likely to change status. Knowing if somebody's on 'run and hide' saves you a lot of time.
While your post was rather harsh, this part is just untrue. Only ships that are flying in/outwards (or in prelaunch to do so) are protected from the Sabotage covert op.


But yes, the whole point of Run and Hide is that you can't steal ships from people that aren't online 24/7. How is that a bad thing, exactly?
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Unread 1 Oct 2010, 23:29   #6
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Re: Run and Hide fleet option

I can't believe I've just been misquoted twice. That's bad craic.
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Unread 1 Oct 2010, 23:43   #7
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Re: Run and Hide fleet option

In Reply to Kenny, dude you need to learn how to talk to people. Your post was both childish and offensive.

While it's true you can steal ships while defending most attackers will recall with too much defence. Your best chance to steal ships is through offence.

Also who mentioned anything about noob bashing? It seems you made an asumption there. It's easy to attack larger people who rely heavily on 1-2 class of ships for attacking.

Also your point on people not being here 24/7 is crap. 100 ticks gives you a little over 4 days to be away and if your not going to be playing for more than 4-5 days then you have Vacation mode.
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Unread 1 Oct 2010, 23:51   #8
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Re: Run and Hide fleet option

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Originally Posted by ReVolt View Post
In Reply to Kenny, dude you need to learn how to talk to people. Your post was both childish and offensive.

While it's true you can steal ships while defending most attackers will recall with too much defence. Your best chance to steal ships is through offence.

Also who mentioned anything about noob bashing? It seems you made an asumption there. It's easy to attack larger people who rely heavily on 1-2 class of ships for attacking.

Also your point on people not being here 24/7 is crap. 100 ticks gives you a little over 4 days to be away and if your not going to be playing for more than 4-5 days then you have Vacation mode.
Revolt I feel I must sincerely apologise, I honestly thought it was 'revol' posting and that guy is a total spanner.

I have nothing against you and have no idea whether you're an idiot or not.

I'm very tired, and I blame that for misreading your nick.

Sorry once again.
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Unread 2 Oct 2010, 00:26   #9
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Re: Run and Hide fleet option

I have no problem with ziks being unable to steal from inactives.
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Unread 2 Oct 2010, 10:28   #10
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Re: Run and Hide fleet option

ReVolt,

Kenny said most of it already. But i would like to add something :P

Ever since run and hide is present, i have been looking at Ziks' AU's and Newsies. I know its very hard to steal anything usefull beyond the first few days (where ppl kamikaze for roids, with few ships and no scans).

Still i see Ziks (and to some lesser extent, Etd's) with HUGE amounts of stolen ships. THis round, I marked a number of those planets in my journal, and did a regular newsie on them. My findings (yes, i am no longer MH, but I am tempted too much sometimes) clearly lead me to the following rough conclusion:

ZIK's, and to a lesser degree, ETD's, with stolen fleet beyond the incidental luck on defense or (fake) attack, seem to be cheaters by default since the existance of the option 'Run and Hide'. There is no other way then ship-farming to achieve a very large stolen fleet.
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Unread 2 Oct 2010, 10:40   #11
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Re: Run and Hide fleet option

What, people who like to steal ships are also cheaters ?
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Unread 2 Oct 2010, 10:50   #12
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Re: Run and Hide fleet option

No dimwit, i am stating that there is no way to get a large stolen fleet other then by cheating (ie, shipfarming, ie, agreeing with someone to steal ships, or have multiple accounts to feed your main zik (etd) planet ships), GIVEN the incidental exception.
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Unread 2 Oct 2010, 11:01   #13
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Re: Run and Hide fleet option

Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by incompetence. Your incompetence, that is.
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Unread 2 Oct 2010, 11:06   #14
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Re: Run and Hide fleet option

Quote:
Originally Posted by Remy View Post
ZIK's, and to a lesser degree, ETD's, with stolen fleet beyond the incidental luck on defense or (fake) attack, seem to be cheaters by default since the existance of the option 'Run and Hide'. There is no other way then ship-farming to achieve a very large stolen fleet.
Yeah man. And how the **** do those top planets steal so many roids all the time?!?!?! Cheaters I say!
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Unread 2 Oct 2010, 11:37   #15
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Re: Run and Hide fleet option

Absolutely astounded how you make such a claim Remy. Undoubtedly there are some players out there who 'cheat' in order to get certain ships, but to bombastically claim that every player who have achieved a huge amount of stolen ships have done so by cheating is quite simply rediculous.
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Unread 2 Oct 2010, 13:45   #16
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Re: Run and Hide fleet option

I dont think remy's claim is that far out. Seriously How does someone get 300k+ cat Co during a round baring 4-5 FC's If you were to news scan the ziks you'd see a lot of them are donations to either gal mates or ally targets.

Run and hide has made it almost impossible for Zik's to steal which is the only real thing that make zik playable. I think you should either get Rid of Zik or Run/hide. It ruins the game, there is no actual benefit from it it rewards laziness and punishes activity. If people had to actively check to see if there planet is being attacked it would better the game. And if people need to go away for 2-3 days at a time then go into vacation mode.

This is a WAR game and should be treated like one. In War you cant just hide your army or navy or air force. So everyone should be able to attack them.

A suggested replacement would be a 4th fleet slot that could only be used for galaxy/alliance defending it would allow people the option to still hide there fleets but not for an entire round.
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Unread 2 Oct 2010, 14:21   #17
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Re: Run and Hide fleet option

Well to be honest all you need is for caths to crash on def (Jinstarro crashed 1.2m worth of cath co last round.... TWICE.... and Crash King RaiN also left his record untarnished and never made it through the whole round without crashing some of his cath co) and you've got 500k cath co right there. Organise your def properly etc...
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Unread 2 Oct 2010, 14:32   #18
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Re: Run and Hide fleet option

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiamat101 View Post
I dont think remy's claim is that far out. Seriously How does someone get 300k+ cat Co during a round baring 4-5 FC's
Some players are actually competent enough to do it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiamat101 View Post
If you were to news scan the ziks you'd see a lot of them are donations to either gal mates or ally targets.
I don't believe you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiamat101 View Post
Run and hide has made it almost impossible for Zik's to steal
Wrong.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiamat101 View Post
steal is the only real thing that make zik playable.
Wrong again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiamat101 View Post
I think you should either get Rid of Zik or Run/hide. It ruins the game, there is no actual benefit from it it rewards laziness and punishes activity.
No, it does not. You are confusing "not punishing inactivity" with "punishing activity". And you are also confusing "no actual benefit" with "no actual benefit for me me me".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiamat101 View Post
If people had to actively check to see if there planet is being attacked it would better the game.
Allow me fix that for you: if new players knew they had to be able to log in at least every 8 hours they would not play the game. But it would sure make it easy for you to steal anything your heart desires!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiamat101 View Post
And if people need to go away for 2-3 days at a time then go into vacation mode.
I'd rather just remove vacation mode altogether.
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Unread 2 Oct 2010, 23:31   #19
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Re: Run and Hide fleet option

Ive always had a problem with the Zik stealing mechanic anyway. I love the idea of stealing ships and certainly wouldnt ever recommend removing them. However, arguing that 'run and hide' ruins a ziks ability to farm inactives/casuals is not really an argument against 'run and hide', to me.. Its an argument for it.
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Unread 3 Oct 2010, 22:03   #20
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Re: Run and Hide fleet option

I'm a fan of the zik and have played them numerous times, allthough some rounds it was hard to get a decent steal, there were rounds where i found myself having 500k fico stolen from xan/cat.

besides a bit of luck it doesn't take much to reach that amount.
1 good crash on your def and 1 good fc is all it takes.
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Unread 3 Oct 2010, 22:19   #21
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Re: Run and Hide fleet option

Quote:
Originally Posted by HeimdallR View Post
I'm a fan of the zik and have played them numerous times, allthough some rounds it was hard to get a decent steal, there were rounds where i found myself having 500k fico stolen from xan/cat.

besides a bit of luck it doesn't take much to reach that amount.
1 good crash on your def and 1 good fc is all it takes.
cheater
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Unread 4 Oct 2010, 02:08   #22
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Re: Run and Hide fleet option

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cheater
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Unread 18 Oct 2010, 23:04   #23
Remy
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Re: Run and Hide fleet option

Forgot about this thread.

My claim was quite bold, but i still support it. Yes, some people will be able to fleetcatch some ships, yes, some will have people crashing on them,of course, and yes, sometimes you land and you're in luck.

I have played zik quite often, and i was quite good at it, wether i stole ships or not (some rounds were lucky on steals, some werent)

My point is, that since the introduction of hide and run, there is no reason to lose ships to ziks other then crashing, regular defense or being fleetcaught. Of course ziks will steal ships at some point, and yes, you can have a decent amount with one crash and one fleetcatch. But if you take a look at a good number of ziks at the end of each round, you look at that AU, and think: no way that has been captured in an honest way.

But to get back at Revolt's original thread opener: the only thing run and hide prevents is you grazing ships from inactives; you have to actually work to get some ships, instead of finding some (usually) cath at around your bash limit,newsie them to find out which ones are inactive, and then nick them ships.
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