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Unread 4 Dec 2011, 12:40   #51
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Re: R45 Stats Discussion

The thing you are missing from the equation is how easy it is to defend a planet that flaks itself against everything, which is what Isil is referring to.
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Unread 4 Dec 2011, 14:31   #52
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Re: R45 Stats Discussion

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Originally Posted by isildurx View Post
Errr... WHAT? Why would every fi/co buildt be anti fr/de? Basically you are saying that people who go cr/bs class will build fico anti fr/de, my question then becomes; how are these planets going to stop fi/co?
Without fi/co pods... Why would they even need to stop fi/co?

And yeah... Fr/De has it easiest early in the round, since you can defend against everything. Just build enough ships to roid noobs with and keep the rest in stock.
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Unread 4 Dec 2011, 16:37   #53
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Re: R45 Stats Discussion

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Originally Posted by Shev View Post
The thing you are missing from the equation is how easy it is to defend a planet that flaks itself against everything, which is what Isil is referring to.

BUt surely if as Isul was saying your whole alliance is one meta class, fr/de, then its harder for you to defend against fi/co - plus you have to attack with a lot of your ships - you dont leave much back to help out - its easy for fi/co and cr/bs to leave stuff at base and help out with alliance defence, whilst sticking to a 3 ship build - fr/de has to build 4 ships to help with alliance defence vs fi/co no??
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Unread 4 Dec 2011, 16:54   #54
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Re: R45 Stats Discussion

Not if Fr/De is pretty much immune to Fi/Co. You can take care of most incs with simple ingal crossdef - it takes huge, huge waves to roid a top 10 value Fr/De gal.

If you're getting lots of fi/co incs, cover the first wave with ingal def, have alliance pl def for 2nd-4th waves. It's probably not something alliances of these days can pull off, though.
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Unread 4 Dec 2011, 17:26   #55
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Re: R45 Stats Discussion

And early round alliance don't even send def, afterall we are talking about early round here.
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Unread 4 Dec 2011, 17:43   #56
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Re: R45 Stats Discussion

Ok fair enough Isul - but i still dont see how fr/de is amazing - i think possibly it works for forted alliance play - such as DLR used to enjoy playing but for a the normal alliance there invariably isnt the defensive activity required to pl - plus all it would take is staggered attacking lts and pl def is redundant. I would assume a comptent bc would stagger LT's if warring against a fr/de ally to minimise the effective of pl def.

You say that early round alliances dont send def but thats not strictly true... alliances dont actively coordinate def but def is still sent - not to the levels of mid round - but its still there - especially xan fakes.

I just dont see how fr/de is better than fi/co - from my point of veiw fi/co gets the alliance eta advantage defensively - it gives the defenders against it no advantage offensively. You have to attack with a large chunk of your fr/de ships as you have to expect a range of fi/co/fr/de/cr/bs ships deffing you from alliance and ingal... whereas with fi/co you only have to worry about fi/co ships from alliances and fr/de ingal really... it just seems a more sensible and easier choice to play with.

And ofc of most recent rounds we have seen its been a fi/co planet winner and i think mainly fi/co alliance win (please correct if im wrong my memory isnt perfect)
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Unread 4 Dec 2011, 19:15   #57
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Re: R45 Stats Discussion

I'm not debating the fact that fi/co fleets, for a multitude of reasons, tend to do better than fr/de fleets, I just pointed out some errors in your previous posts.

There are pretty much two scenarios in which fr/de fleets can be superior;

1) An alliance has decided to go for fortress gals, or a whole galaxy goes for the same strategy, and decide to go for pure fr or de meaning that the gal is hard to roid and ingal def is very powerful. This strategy also requires an active alliance to accomplish successfully.

2) You are a solo planet trying to avoid much incs, a pure fr or de class fleet will get a lot less incs than if you spread your ships out over multiple classes. The downside here is that once you do get incs they tend to be very big and hard to cover.
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Unread 4 Dec 2011, 20:51   #58
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Re: R45 Stats Discussion

Ok thats fair

Back on topic tho.. and drawing from Isul's post - does this mean that Tias stats which a pushing players to go down the fr/de route are built more for active players/alliances/galaxies and not for everybody??

I know Isul said about solo planets but all the 'semi active' alliances (like rank 6 downwards) would struggle to play with fr/de no??? over half the playerbase...

So should the fi/co ships not so much be improved stat wise but maybe give a viable fi/co roiding fleet to zik/etd (so that capping pods will make them playable too)

Maybe every race could gain 1 more ship - to incorporate this

Terran Cr ship > t1 Cr (int around 6-7)
Cath BS Ship> t1 BS (emp int 1) - Change Taran to int 2 and just target CR
Xan DE ship > t1 Fr (int around 5-6)
Zik Co ship > t1 Fr (kill ship int 8) - change Corsair to just t1 De
Etd Fi Ship> t1 De (emp int 2)


Im just throwing out ideas here - please refine or dismiss them - im not a statmaker so i know shit all about effiences and so on
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Unread 4 Dec 2011, 21:27   #59
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Re: R45 Stats Discussion

Kai Check at my stats. My Biggest Goal From these stats was to Avoid a ship that T1's its own class. As when that happens they tend to be suicide or Chicken Def. Also I have NO same init fire, its intended to be that way.

As for Tending people toward Fr/De by no means is that the case. Fi/co In mass numbers will still beat Fr/de due to Emp and Lolwaves. Also Cr/Bs will still be VERY strong vs Fr/de PLanets because they have no Init Adv over cr/bs. Also Given that Both Cr and Bs has good Emp ships, i would hope that people would see that Cr/bs is playable especially Vs Fr/De.

Now to Address this Issue Kaiba Fr/De planets are naturally unhittable. Just Look at 6:3 this round. They have So much De ingal that they can cover almost every inc with De. Here are some bcalcs to prove my point.

http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=qxxa8udg4zj2uql

This Decently Value'd Terran Planet, It takes 3 Fi/co Fleets to even consider Causing a Dent to him. The Reason for the smaller value'd Fi/co fleets and the higher % of anti fi/co are to similate Real planets, you Will RARELY find fi/co planets build equal or majority anti fr/de. You see the "Flacking" power of the De. All he would need is either some more Pegs/Vsh or even just some more De Flack to allow his own Pegs to fire.
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Unread 4 Dec 2011, 21:39   #60
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Re: R45 Stats Discussion

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Originally Posted by Tiamat101 View Post
Kai Check at my stats. My Biggest Goal From these stats was to Avoid a ship that T1's its own class. As when that happens they tend to be suicide or Chicken Def. Also I have NO same init fire, its intended to be that way.

As for Tending people toward Fr/De by no means is that the case. Fi/co In mass numbers will still beat Fr/de due to Emp and Lolwaves. Also Cr/Bs will still be VERY strong vs Fr/de PLanets because they have no Init Adv over cr/bs. Also Given that Both Cr and Bs has good Emp ships, i would hope that people would see that Cr/bs is playable especially Vs Fr/De.

Now to Address this Issue Kaiba Fr/De planets are naturally unhittable. Just Look at 6:3 this round. They have So much De ingal that they can cover almost every inc with De. Here are some bcalcs to prove my point.

http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=qxxa8udg4zj2uql

This Decently Value'd Terran Planet, It takes 3 Fi/co Fleets to even consider Causing a Dent to him. The Reason for the smaller value'd Fi/co fleets and the higher % of anti fi/co are to similate Real planets, you Will RARELY find fi/co planets build equal or majority anti fr/de. You see the "Flacking" power of the De. All he would need is either some more Pegs/Vsh or even just some more De Flack to allow his own Pegs to fire.

Jesus i thought i had just finished this debate with Isul...

Firstly as i said im not a statmaker i just added in some random extra ships so everyone had 10 ships - allowing the second etd fi/co ship - making etd fi/co possible...

Secondly and to finish the debate... i dont think after Isul and I had exchanged posts that we said that ingal fr/de wasnt strong - infact we both agreed that forted fr/de gals are massively strong - BUT - fr/de is for the 'more active/dedicated alliance player' - im just using a random example here so no flaming Misty please but HR would struggle to run a fr/de alliance - even if they forted - they dont have enough super dedicated players/dc's to pl def and completely cover up ingal for any attacks.

FR/DE is better used for top 5 alliances and active BG alliances such as ToF or DLR - that leaves half the playerbase unable to use fr/de well and therefore have a bad round.

You say how the stats arent psuhed towards fr/de but i would counter that the first thing you spot when looking at them is that there is 4 races with 3 fr or de ships (of all the same class) - that will make less wise players think de/fr is the way to go - the same players who are most likely in alliances that will struggle using fr/de.

Maybe you could change a couple of the classes of ship to stop this being an obvious reaction to the shipstats - give the races 2 de and 1 fr ship or vice versa just so that fact isnt so glaringly obvious when you load the page - i also think this might be because you have reduced the amount of ships each race has...
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Unread 4 Dec 2011, 22:03   #61
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Re: R45 Stats Discussion

Massing FR/DE is by default a defensive way of playing planetarion, as

1) you are hard to roid
2) you normally aren't very good offensively (can't really attack with more than one fleet either usually)

This is fine, some players like to play planetarion this way and thus fr\de really should be a viable combo, unfortunately it often isn't.

In contrast, fi/co is a lot more offensive(particularily xan) and thus almost* always favored by a lot of players as you are likely to cap more roids and xp.

I find it fairly obvious in your posting Kaiba that you really do prefer fi/co rounds and don't want fr\de to be that strong. I disagree that "FR/DE is better used for top 5 alliances and active BG alliances such as ToF or DLR - that leaves half the playerbase unable to use fr/de well and therefore have a bad round", FR/DE can be used by everyone, the active alliances will be active enough to PL def while the smaller alliances players likely won't become so fat that they will attract big enough incs to roid their FR/DE fortress planet and will also avoid a lot of random incs.

Bottom line; I can't say that I've looked at the stats too closely, however, in general as long as fi/co is fairly good plenty people will go them, so I really don't think it would be so bad if fr/de was the strongest combo on paper for once.


* obviously if the fico class is BEYOND SHIT noone will go them
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Unread 4 Dec 2011, 22:30   #62
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Re: R45 Stats Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiba View Post

FR/DE is better used for top 5 alliances and active BG alliances such as ToF or DLR - that leaves half the playerbase unable to use fr/de well and therefore have a bad round.


So Kaiba I must ask, How many alliances are there this round? There are Atleast 16 alliance's with over 10 members. If I were to taylor the Stats toward the top 5 how would the other 11 alliances feel about that?

By no means is everyone forced to go one strat or another.
Fr/De>Fi/co>Cr/bs>Fr/de

I am a big Fan of Rock paper Scissors, and i believe that's what I've created. If that means the strat of "all Fi/Co" alliance don't work then so be it. Then again I am not by any means ruling out the idea that someone could just go balls to the walls Fi/Co and still be very strong, but that leaves you open to other things.


But Kaiba until you can actually PROVE to me that these stats need changing with calcs and logical Reasoning. There is no reason to change them, Especially Adding more ships into the mix.
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Unread 4 Dec 2011, 22:57   #63
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Re: R45 Stats Discussion

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Originally Posted by Tiamat101 View Post
So Kaiba I must ask, How many alliances are there this round? There are Atleast 16 alliance's with over 10 members. If I were to taylor the Stats toward the top 5 how would the other 11 alliances feel about that?

By no means is everyone forced to go one strat or another.
Fr/De>Fi/co>Cr/bs>Fr/de

I am a big Fan of Rock paper Scissors, and i believe that's what I've created. If that means the strat of "all Fi/Co" alliance don't work then so be it. Then again I am not by any means ruling out the idea that someone could just go balls to the walls Fi/Co and still be very strong, but that leaves you open to other things.


But Kaiba until you can actually PROVE to me that these stats need changing with calcs and logical Reasoning. There is no reason to change them, Especially Adding more ships into the mix.
http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=jiwo9odvh25jn1w

You've also stated earlier that cath should attack into xan, but that is plain suicide.

And just to add Roach > Viper.
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Unread 5 Dec 2011, 00:17   #64
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Re: R45 Stats Discussion

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Omg a race that focuses 80%+ of their value in one class can roid Cath! ^^
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Unread 5 Dec 2011, 07:19   #65
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Re: R45 Stats Discussion

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Originally Posted by Tiamat101 View Post

The stats were created with the Following Priciple: Ter>Zik>Cath>Xan>Etd>Ter. As far as solo's go.
http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=dni1jxi0k0xqsie


I think is what TheoDD was trying to say... Cath cant roid Xan clean... something which you said it should be able to - solo....
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Unread 5 Dec 2011, 08:02   #66
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Re: R45 Stats Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiba View Post
http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=dni1jxi0k0xqsie


I think is what TheoDD was trying to say... Cath cant roid Xan clean... something which you said it should be able to - solo....

ooo look at me i can put random numbers into a calc and make it look bad for the attacker
the principle applys with equal fleet values but if you did that it would spoil your arguement

go you
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Unread 5 Dec 2011, 08:22   #67
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Re: R45 Stats Discussion

It's even worse than that! Look: http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=u3afi0dxs6h0i7g

Xan can't roid Etd either! Oh em gee!
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Unread 5 Dec 2011, 08:50   #68
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Re: R45 Stats Discussion

Looking at this NEW (lol) set of stats, i wonder why we have NEW (lol) ones anyhow...

could just go with RoundX ones instead

i secrectly was hoping for diversity - there it goes....
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Unread 5 Dec 2011, 10:52   #69
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Re: R45 Stats Discussion

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It's even worse than that! Look: http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=u3afi0dxs6h0i7g

Xan can't roid Etd either! Oh em gee!
Looking at that calc at least salvage is fixed
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Unread 5 Dec 2011, 12:36   #70
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Re: R45 Stats Discussion

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ooo look at me i can put random numbers into a calc and make it look bad for the attacker
the principle applys with equal fleet values but if you did that it would spoil your arguement

go you

yeh yeh, normally cath could have close to half the value of xan and fully emp.

with these stats cath needs more value than xan, and hence why i posted that calc in the first place.

Random numbers or not, the calc was just an example to show that cath can't attack into xan as tia stated. Not with co, nor with CR.
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Unread 5 Dec 2011, 18:17   #71
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Re: R45 Stats Discussion

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Looking at that calc at least salvage is fixed
Not sure how you can draw any conclusion from that calc...
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Unread 5 Dec 2011, 18:58   #72
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Re: R45 Stats Discussion

The fact That The beetle is 170% effective Vs Xan Fi, means that yes cath co can roid Xan Fi.
http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=1htgql4zjy4131u

As for Cat Cr They cant Roid Xan Fr solo but they would be able to roid any xan Fi/co Planet because of the value they would have in anti cr/bs.

Cath will Still be a Very strong early and mid round fleet, and if they keep there value and actually hold there roids long enough they will be VERY hard to roid solo.
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Unread 5 Dec 2011, 19:18   #73
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Re: R45 Stats Discussion

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The fact That The beetle is 170% effective Vs Xan Fi, means that yes cath co can roid Xan Fi.
http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=1htgql4zjy4131u

As for Cat Cr They cant Roid Xan Fr solo but they would be able to roid any xan Fi/co Planet because of the value they would have in anti cr/bs.

Cath will Still be a Very strong early and mid round fleet, and if they keep there value and actually hold there roids long enough they will be VERY hard to roid solo.
ok, that clears up my confusion.
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Unread 5 Dec 2011, 19:23   #74
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Re: R45 Stats Discussion

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Originally Posted by Tiamat101 View Post
The fact That The beetle is 170% effective Vs Xan Fi, means that yes cath co can roid Xan Fi.
http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=1htgql4zjy4131u

As for Cat Cr They cant Roid Xan Fr solo but they would be able to roid any xan Fi/co Planet because of the value they would have in anti cr/bs.

Cath will Still be a Very strong early and mid round fleet, and if they keep there value and actually hold there roids long enough they will be VERY hard to roid solo.

But you didnt say that - you said cat could roid xan - you didnt say xan fi - this is what i pushing at with the fr/de thing - its the fr and de ships that jump out at you and from mine and theodd's calcs cath cant roid xan fr so why would ppl go xan fi instead of fr??

Going xan fr would just stop every cath co rankwhore trying to rape you...

Gzambo: Why would a caths attacking value of its co ships be equal to an entire xan fleet??? i took the value of attacker down as cath players will need anti cr/bs ships at home - that would atleast make up 25-30% of there value which is roughly the difference in fleet values in that calc.


Im 100% with m0 on his thoughts btw - PLEASE REHASH AN OLD SET OF STATS RATHER THAN USE THESE GOD AWFUL ONES FROM TIA!!
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Unread 5 Dec 2011, 19:27   #75
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Re: R45 Stats Discussion

Also Gzambo: equal fleet values - http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=a3p6drerdxid1cx - im still not landing clean...
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Unread 5 Dec 2011, 19:50   #76
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Re: R45 Stats Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiba View Post
But you didnt say that - you said cat could roid xan - you didnt say xan fi - this is what i pushing at with the fr/de thing - its the fr and de ships that jump out at you and from mine and theodd's calcs cath cant roid xan fr so why would ppl go xan fi instead of fr??
For the exact same reason alot of ppl like to go fi/co and as you yourself have mentioned - eta advantage.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiba
Going xan fr would just stop every cath co rankwhore trying to rape you...

Gzambo: Why would a caths attacking value of its co ships be equal to an entire xan fleet??? i took the value of attacker down as cath players will need anti cr/bs ships at home - that would atleast make up 25-30% of there value which is roughly the difference in fleet values in that calc.


Im 100% with m0 on his thoughts btw - PLEASE REHASH AN OLD SET OF STATS RATHER THAN USE THESE GOD AWFUL ONES FROM TIA!!
Actually i think you will find that wouldn't be an entire xan fleet as you put it, as you have no anti fr there, unless xans are just going to leave themselves open to fr incs all round of course....
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Unread 5 Dec 2011, 19:54   #77
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Re: R45 Stats Discussion

Because Going Xan Fr means that your alliance cant Help you Vs mass Fi/co Team up and you get roided. It also means you'll get roided by almost all Cr team ups as well as Bs Team ups and All Fr Attacks.

As far as solo attack options for Cath Cr go:
http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=9odvh25jn1wyt7x
http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=sz88zceuyu13q50

As far as Solo Attack options for Cath Co go:
http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=8965e0wbhjiwo9o
http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=8ytz4dzmrjlsae8 (unlikely that cath will build with those %'s but still could.)
http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=h2y18unln24eidd (also unlikely but definatly possible.)

And OF Course Cat Co could roid into any cr/bs planet.

When Playing Fr/De planets you generally wont be doing a lot of damage in the calcs unless you put a lot of your value into one ship.

Fi/Co are very attack oriented as long as you have good team ups. Emp will make most of the attacks possible and given the enviroment now most people will be doing mass team ups anyway.

Fr/De are VERY defensive. They will be hard to roid even with good teams but not impossible.

Cr/Bs I havent had alot of time to actually sit down and crack out the numbers, but I intended for them be also be very attack oriented. They will be able to roid alot of planets, they will have some trouble with an alliance that massed Fr/De but they should be able to attack solo or in pairs against any planet.
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Unread 5 Dec 2011, 20:00   #78
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Re: R45 Stats Discussion

If you want i can list all of the possible attack combinations and there Team up options but, then I would be doing peoples work for them. Until Given PROFF that something in these stats needs to be changed, there is nothing to discuss.

Kaiba just because you think Fr/De is too strong doesnt mean that it is. In almost every round Fr/De eventually becomes unhittable espeically by fi/co because of the % of the fi/co fleets that focus on Fr/De. So I'll say this again for the 100th time. Provide me valid examples of how these stats should be changed and i will consider them.
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Unread 5 Dec 2011, 20:09   #79
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Re: R45 Stats Discussion

We dont want them changed... we want them scrapped!!

Old stats ftw!
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Unread 5 Dec 2011, 20:25   #80
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Re: R45 Stats Discussion

kaiba you dont even play anymore
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Unread 5 Dec 2011, 20:40   #81
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Re: R45 Stats Discussion

So i dont have an opinion??

Your a scanner - you dont even build ships!!
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Unread 5 Dec 2011, 20:57   #82
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Re: R45 Stats Discussion

an opinion of stats is fine but stating you want them changed seems odd when you wont be using them whateva they are. but anyways, i havent had a look yet. will try to asap and then give some constructive feedback.
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Unread 5 Dec 2011, 21:35   #83
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Re: R45 Stats Discussion

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kaiba you dont even play anymore
Yes he does. He was fakenicking in DFWTK this round, and they kicked him out because he found out he was getting incs and tried to avoid them by putting his planet into 'delete' mode.

SO THERE.
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Unread 6 Dec 2011, 08:29   #84
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Re: R45 Stats Discussion

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Not sure how you can draw any conclusion from that calc...
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Unread 6 Dec 2011, 15:14   #85
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Re: R45 Stats Discussion

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Patrikc meet sarcasm , sarcasm meet Patrikc
gzambo meet humour, humour meet gzambo.


I think you could learn something from eachother!
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Unread 6 Dec 2011, 19:02   #86
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Re: R45 Stats Discussion

If that was a joke, it was not a very good one.
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Unread 7 Dec 2011, 00:56   #87
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Re: R45 Stats Discussion

Changes:

Ghost init 4->init 6
Banshee T1- De T2- Fr
Tycoon Cr-Co T1-Fr T2-De Init-5

Reasons: I found that Xan Fr was a bit Too strong So by spliting up the High Init kill ships between a few races means that it'll be a more balanced set for attack/def.

Banshee change was to make hitting into Ter ALOT easier right now Ter De was very hard to de-Thrown. However because Vshaak still out Init banshee it means that De can still attack w/o much issue.

Other Changes I Moved Tycoon from being a high Init Cr to being a middle init Co that hits Fr/De. It make defending vs Fr a bit easier and gives another faster init ship than the peg, although at t2.
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Unread 8 Dec 2011, 11:59   #88
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Re: R45 Stats Discussion

Tia, wanted to ask you the rationale behind the juggernaut and the dragon. I know you´re trying to make no same class tier 1 hit, but making two identical ships (bar 1 init from 8 to 9) seems a waste of a ship class, seeing that ter and etd would teamup on attacks.

It would simply mean that there would be no reason for buiding one of the ships - atleast make a little more difference - like a t3 for the dragon - or make jugg cloak or steal based.
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Unread 8 Dec 2011, 17:08   #89
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Re: R45 Stats Discussion

I made The Juggernaut a Normal ship on purpose to make it harder for cr/bs attackers to land on Etd, while not making Etd Bs be able to roid everything. However because of the Init difference it means that Etd Bs can somewhat roid into Ter. I wanted to limit the steal ships that Etd has because ultimatly people end up only building those and playing etd much like a Zik planet.
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Unread 8 Dec 2011, 17:58   #90
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Re: R45 Stats Discussion

hmmm I see your points - however I don´t see the justification of two identical ships of the prefered teamup races. and I thought the entire point with etd was that you could pick if you wanted to play like cath/zik with a few norm ships as backup
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Unread 8 Dec 2011, 18:08   #91
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Re: R45 Stats Discussion

Actually i've come up with a different solution. Patrikc brought up that Etd/Ter have 2 identical ship strats. To avoid too much synergy I am going to switch Ter Bs and Cath Cr.

Edit: Significant changes were made to a various number of ships:

Ter Bs -> Cr
Cath Cr -> Bs
Switched the targeting on Dragon/roach/tarantula/Voyager
Increase Xan Fr Eff's a bit.
Retweeked the Emp Res on a number of ships.
Made Beetle 160% effective vs xan fi(was 180 before)
Dropped armor on Ter De and some Etd De


Imput is welcome. Please limit the flaming to a minimum.
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Unread 8 Dec 2011, 18:40   #92
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Re: R45 Stats Discussion

fair enough that might bring something different on the table for a change
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Unread 8 Dec 2011, 19:17   #93
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Re: R45 Stats Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiamat101 View Post
Actually i've come up with a different solution. Patrikc brought up that Etd/Ter have 2 identical ship strats. To avoid too much synergy I am going to switch Ter Bs and Cath Cr.

Edit: Significant changes were made to a various number of ships:

Ter Bs -> Cr
Cath Cr -> Bs
Switched the targeting on Dragon/roach/tarantula/Voyager
Increase Xan Fr Eff's a bit.
Retweeked the Emp Res on a number of ships.
Made Beetle 160% effective vs xan fi(was 180 before)
Dropped armor on Ter De and some Etd De


Imput is welcome. Please limit the flaming to a minimum.

Doesnt leave the same problem tho? except with Ter/Zik instead of Ter/Etd - the Dragon still doesnt need to be built as the Pirate targets the same stuff but ints quicker...
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Unread 8 Dec 2011, 19:37   #94
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Re: R45 Stats Discussion

Quick Q, why is it that Zik and cath are the only races with a full line of T1 - fi/co/de/fr/cr/bs.

Ter missing - CR
Etd missing - BS
Xan missing - FR

If your answer is that you want more attack oriented stats I´m all pro.

However that leaves the unbalanced issue of zik and cath - I can agree with the fact that zik due to being zik should have the full T1 range, but cath being a powerful defence race already might aswell loose 1 of its T1 - like i.e CO (change the spider) - or DE (change the viper).

oh yea and why you´re at it - the pirate should be steal - as kai pointed out.
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Unread 8 Dec 2011, 19:48   #95
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Re: R45 Stats Discussion

New changes have been added.

Pirate now t3 De
Worked the BS effeciencys a bit.
Guardian init 2
Voyager init 1
Spectre to Cr



As for the T1's Most of them are to make them weak to a class or to allow a specific race to attack into them much easier. In Xan's case both of there fighters Fire at Fr which means that they can defend vs Fr incs as a kind of 2nd thought. Also i specificly made it so that Fr doesnt fire at FR but De does.

As for the problems you are having with the Dragon Its meant to be a huge damage soak. It may not have the best init but it does have the best D/C. So it will TAKE ALOT of pressure off for other CR team up ships such as the clipper and even to some extent the pirate.
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Unread 8 Dec 2011, 20:15   #96
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Re: R45 Stats Discussion

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Originally Posted by Tiamat101 View Post

As for the T1's Most of them are to make them weak to a class or to allow a specific race to attack into them much easier. In Xan's case both of there fighters Fire at Fr which means that they can defend vs Fr incs as a kind of 2nd thought. Also i specificly made it so that Fr doesnt fire at FR but De does.
Thats really cool I like attack oriented stats - I still think it should apply to cath also tho
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Unread 8 Dec 2011, 20:49   #97
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Re: R45 Stats Discussion

As far as Cath are concerned a smart cath player will only ever build 3 ships total. There 2 attack class ships and 1 def ship. If they start putting value into 4 ship classes they become very vulnerable to attacks because of there value distribution.

Last change for the Day:
Cutter Init -> 7 Kill
Centaur Init -> 8
Gryphone Init -> 9

Reason: Make the Fr/de interaction Drake/Ghost/Cutter/Centaur
1/4 vs 2/3 Sort of balances it out.
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Unread 9 Dec 2011, 00:32   #98
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Re: R45 Stats Discussion

Yeah the stats seem to be shaping up better now tbh - atleast your willing to make changes Tia, thats a good sign.

You know im not hugely in favour of rounds that push on forted active galaxies and cr/bs rushing (tools i beleive are not able to be used effectively by half the playerbase due to knowledge and actvity reasons) but at least now fi/co is more playable giving them an easy to explain and implement option

I just wanted everyone to be happy with the stats, not just the 'active' minority
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Unread 9 Dec 2011, 00:33   #99
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Re: R45 Stats Discussion

But as i told you earlier Pegasus' getting out inted by Xan Fi just looks wrong still
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Unread 9 Dec 2011, 05:58   #100
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Re: R45 Stats Discussion

Not been negative but I partially agree with kaiba which I'm not perfectly happy with I looked at ter as defensive unit fi co cr bs can roid ter easy it can cover for fr de but not alliance ships only gal and its self so 4 classes can roid ter kinda makes ter looked owned with these stats atleast with lower init of peg makes them abit stronger to atleast try stop something else. I'm for attack orientated stats and there cr aslong as teamed with zik pirate ter wyvern will be unstoppable so ter is basically offence only race with these stats don't try and defend will mean ter will be targeted all day long and due to cap ratio constantly attacking will not pay back the gazillion waves of roids you will lose so ter is unplayable to be honest.

Here's another reason your argument is you flak out to make peg stronger and ability to fire but if cr is your attack fleet you have no flak for the peg so its a useless ship if you go peg class not cr your stronger due to having flakage but same principle you would attack with that class leaving ya wide open like isild mentioned only targeting 1 Target per attack
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