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Unread 10 Jul 2007, 17:52   #1
Tomkat
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Make Multying Legal

This was vaguely suggested before. Kal's answer was:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal
The complex answer is this: PA is a team player game, therfore having more people on your side directly influences your chance of winning, therefore having multiple accounts make it easier to win. As I've said before if people want legal multiying then the game needs to somehow be designed so that working with other people benefits you, while working with multi accounts does not. So until someone can think of a really clever and interesting way to do this, there is no point even talking about this.


I think that implementing a system where people could own more than one planet (multi accounts) with rules could benefit the game though.

Advantages
  • More targets for everybody
  • More money for PA, which eventually hopefully might lead to developers being paid (what... I can dream!)
  • Less people quitting over their fleet getting mashed, as they can play with different accounts
  • People being allowed to try different techniques, which could encourage newbies to join as they won't be scared if they screw up

Disadvantages
  • Stopping people from abusing it (...the usual suspects) will require more work from the multihunters - this could be combatted by recruiting more people into it.
  • Setting the rules out clearly - that is the main reason for this thread though. To brainstorm some possible rules.
  • Is it fair that the person who wins is the person with the most planets? Would this even happen though?

Notes
  • The bot stopper should still be implemented. Multies are still played by people. Bots are not.
  • The rules would need to be crystal clear, with no ambiguity. The support planet rule needs to be revised anyway - this would be an excellent time to do it.
  • People always hark back to the Golden Era of PA when 10k planets were in existence. This could bring that back, as let's be honest - most people did multi in those days anyway.
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Unread 10 Jul 2007, 17:56   #2
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Re: Make Multying Legal

if done properly it probably could work,
but this is pa so if they did it , it would be half-arsed and probably create more problems than it solves
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Unread 10 Jul 2007, 17:59   #3
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Re: Make Multying Legal

I am generally in favor of this.

I assume that limiting the number of accounts (or better said, planets, as I assume it would still be one actual "account") to a certain number would be needed, though.
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Unread 10 Jul 2007, 18:07   #4
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Re: Make Multying Legal

What rules would you be thinking of?
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Unread 10 Jul 2007, 18:16   #5
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Re: Make Multying Legal

If the disadvantages of working with your own legal multi planets are so big that it should encourage working with other planets of other players, it will just end up with people having illegal multi planets besides their legal multi planets. Wich probably changes nothing to the current problem of people having or wanting multi planets.

You might have the situation with more planets/roids/tactics , but it will not stop illegal multis.
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Unread 10 Jul 2007, 18:43   #6
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Re: Make Multying Legal

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk
What rules would you be thinking of?
1. If you interact with any planet (covops/scans/attacks/defence), then your multi is not permitted to interact with that planet for 200 ticks.
2. Accidents may happen where you do not realise that you've interacted with the same planet. This would be at the discretion of the MHs. Maybe a "two strikes and you're out" rule...?
3. You would not be permitted to share a galaxy with your multiple accounts.
4. You would not be permitted to scan, covert op, attack or defend any of your multiple accounts.
5. You would need to declare that another planet is a multiple account, to receive an IP Exception from the MHs.

I can't think of any others, right now.


*In reference to point 1 - people would not be able to own 1 scan planet and 1 proper planet, as there would be interaction with same targets. HOWEVER, you could create a scan planet for the purpose of helping your friends, and they could do the same.
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Unread 10 Jul 2007, 19:06   #7
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Re: Make Multying Legal

What I'm thinking is, would we really need the non-interaction rules, though?

If we assume several facts:

1) Everyone is allowed the same (limited?) number of planets.
2) Farming would still be illegal. In fact, attacking your other accounts is illegal (easy to check and prove if it happens).
3) It would be openly known to the MH team which planet belongs to who (pretty much as in your rule #5).
4) All players are aware (and encouraged to) have multiple planets. Which is kind of the point, since if only the limited number of ("hardcore") players uses this feature, it will not give a significant boost to the playerbase, and it would be hard as hell to make up the rules that would balance people who play 10 accounts and those who have only a single account (and even harder to implement them).

There would be nothing wrong with attacking together with your planets, or scanning and cov-opping without limitations. I'm not sure about defending, but I'm inclined to make it legal as well (would need to see how it plays out though).

Basically it all just depends on the management of your planets. The game essentially remains the same, except you have much more options at your disposal, more fleets, and more depth in organizing your "empire" (as in collection of planets) and specializing individual planets for specific roles in the grand picture.

If that means you will attack with all fleets together, or even use all planets as escort for the "main" one, it's not neccessarily unfair. In fact, in an environment where many players would have multiple planets, I wouldn't see it as particularly wise strategy to have the flagship and dedicated support planets as such.

I'm not sure yet, but the non-interaction rules seem kind of difficult and vague, and trying to simulate an environment where planets/accounts would still be independent, as if they were played by different players. I don't see the neccessity for this. If people can have multiple planets, make it obvious and possible for them to openly use all the new options that this feature would give.
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Unread 10 Jul 2007, 19:19   #8
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Re: Make Multying Legal

I'm aware that making people pay more for their extra accounts would make more money for PA but does anyone think that just having a flat 2 or 3 planets per account or whatever would be a good idea? Personally I'd prevent farming your extra accounts but I don't know if I'd go much further. This would be a reasonable opportunity to remove the gay need for scans as everyone can have a part scan planet or at least a planet which specialises in scans, if they want.
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Unread 10 Jul 2007, 19:23   #9
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Re: Make Multying Legal

Just for the sake of simplifying things - feel free to assume that hard coded limitations would be possible i.e. a single account could own multiple planets - so you could have a single username and password for all your planets and then the game would stop you interacting too much (of course that would need defining).

A good point was raised above though - if the limitations are too big, what's the point, people will just carry-on with illegal multiying - which brings us back to the point of mine that was quoted - how could you incentivise it so legal multiing was a good thing to do and illegal muliting brings no benefits.
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Unread 10 Jul 2007, 19:35   #10
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Re: Make Multying Legal

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
I'm aware that making people pay more for their extra accounts would make more money for PA but does anyone think that just having a flat 2 or 3 planets per account or whatever would be a good idea?
It's hard to tell. The only real downside I see of allowing multiple planets is that some people who play casually would simply not bother to put the effort in managing 3, 5 or 10 accounts (however much is allowed), and as such be overwhelmed and helpless. If this would prove to be the case among the majority of new/casual players, then there is a problem with the feature, yes.

(And I agree with nothing beyond farming being illegal, as I said earlier)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal
A good point was raised above though - if the limitations are too big, what's the point, people will just carry-on with illegal multiying - which brings us back to the point of mine that was quoted - how could you incentivise it so legal multiing was a good thing to do and illegal muliting brings no benefits.
Have you ever considered the possibility that there might be a physical, human limitation on how many planets is possible to manage (without using bots, which are, of course, illegal)?

Let's say the game allows everyone to have 3 planets. Just during the protection time, due to different population setups, keeping up with all the researches would be a physical issue (waking up, staying up, having 3 times as many "responsibilities" towards PA). Your 3 planets could be under attack at 3 different times, and so on.

These aren't "illegal" multi planets that you can only use as support, or even worse, as farms, and as such pay them little overall attention. You must count on everyone having 3 planets, and all the advantages that come with it. This means all 3 planets would have to be cared for, if any of them is to be successful.

I imagine that there would be much less people who would want to manage 4 to 6 planets in such an environment, than those who would want to have a second planet/account in PA as it is now. And isolated, those people won't be hard to catch (using the same MH methods as now, really).

Ultimately, I don't see this feature as means to eliminate multiing (although I do believe it would be reduced). As TK said, it would lift the number of planets involved by at least 3 times the amount, which is excellent. It would also give the game much more strategic depth, and micromanagement options, which is also excellent. Illegal multiing would have to be dealt with as so far.
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Unread 10 Jul 2007, 20:16   #11
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Re: Make Multying Legal

Its a daft idea imho and i'll explain why.

People currently multi for pretty much a single reason, to gain an advantage. It could be a direct advantage such as having on demand defence or an indirect reason like helping your alliance be stronger by supplying them with with scans or cov ops but in the end you get an advantage from it.

Now a system that allows multing simply cant have any limits to it otherwise whats the real attraction for the official system to be used. Then you have the problem of suddenly you make 'success' dependant on who not only has the money to do so but also the time to run multi accounts. I know some people will go, it doesn't take much time to run extra accounts but the simple fact is alot of people dont have a lot of time to spend running a single account. I know I have struggled on numerous occasions to try and play other mmo's when I've had alot more spare time than alot of PA players have, and hey ive struggled to keep just my PA account ticking over for a couple of rounds where my work at the time has meant I haven't at much spare time at a computer.

Success at this game already requires a reasonable amount of activity time from you and your alliance and your galaxy do we really want to double or triple the time that needs committed or for that matter make it so the game is won by the person who can afford to buy the most accounts
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Unread 10 Jul 2007, 20:42   #12
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Re: Make Multying Legal

Quote:
Originally Posted by wakey
People currently multi for pretty much a single reason, to gain an advantage. It could be a direct advantage such as having on demand defence or an indirect reason like helping your alliance be stronger by supplying them with with scans or cov ops but in the end you get an advantage from it.
If you'd read the posts before yours you'd see that it was agreed people should have a limit on the number of planets they could own. Once you go beyond 5 planets per person that really is a lot of micromanagement to be dealing with (not to mention a lot of money).



Quote:
Originally Posted by wakey
Success at this game already requires a reasonable amount of activity time from you and your alliance and your galaxy do we really want to double or triple the time that needs committed or for that matter make it so the game is won by the person who can afford to buy the most accounts
Noone's forcing you to sign up multiple accounts. Also, who's to say that a multi account holder WILL win? We have people multying now yet not winning rounds (as far as we know).
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Unread 10 Jul 2007, 20:46   #13
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Re: Make Multying Legal

You could also have multiple planets without having to pay for them, so buying one account gets you three planets for example.
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Unread 10 Jul 2007, 20:52   #14
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Re: Make Multying Legal

Following on TK's arguments, I'll also add the one that managing an (illegal) multi account is neither as easy nor as profitable as it sounds in theory. For example, having 5 planets you control in a single galaxy might sound awesome, until you lose an internet connection or go out for a day, and end up wiped out with ease.

In an environment where everyone could (and most would) have multiple planets, there is no advantage anymore, bar the advantage that the players provide for themselves.

As for the price, I'm guessing that with the drastic increase in the number of accounts, the price per account could be slightly reduced as well to make a pack of 3 or 5 planets fairly affordable (EDIT: or what JBG said above).

As for the time and effort that needs to be put into managing multiple accounts, it also has the other side of the medal. Currently, when you get fleetcaught or otherwise wiped out, you're left with pretty much nothing. With 3-5 planets scattered accross the universe, you always have the alternative, and getting completely annihilated will be much harder.
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Unread 10 Jul 2007, 21:00   #15
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Re: Make Multying Legal

Quote:
Originally Posted by Talin
With 3-5 planets scattered accross the universe, you always have the alternative, and getting completely annihilated will be much harder.
...and also gives you the chance to have your revenge on the people who decimated your planet
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Unread 10 Jul 2007, 22:32   #16
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Re: Make Multying Legal

you could have it that 1 account/credit buys you 1 planet of each race
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Unread 10 Jul 2007, 23:21   #17
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Re: Make Multying Legal

Slightly off-topic, but this would pretty much make Ziks obsolete as a race (or at least the stealing ability). Perhaps the best option would be keeping it at 3 races then, which is probably easiest to balance. On that note, a while ago someone made the stats for only 3 races, which were quite decent if I remember correctly.
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Unread 11 Jul 2007, 09:47   #18
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Re: Make Multying Legal

Quote:
Originally Posted by Talin
Slightly off-topic, but this would pretty much make Ziks obsolete as a race (or at least the stealing ability). Perhaps the best option would be keeping it at 3 races then, which is probably easiest to balance. On that note, a while ago someone made the stats for only 3 races, which were quite decent if I remember correctly.
why would it make zik's obsolete?
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Unread 11 Jul 2007, 10:12   #19
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Re: Make Multying Legal

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal
why would it make zik's obsolete?
Because quite a few people go Zik for their stealing ability, so that they can play with all the ships as opposed to just the ships on one race.


On topic, I remain opposed to allowing multiple planets.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomkat
People always hark back to the Golden Era of PA when 10k planets were in existence. This could bring that back, as let's be honest - most people did multi in those days anyway.
The golden era of PA was when 180k planets existed and there were about 80000 players. 10k still wouldn't be enough to re-create those conditions.


I looked at your hardcoding suggestions and you missed the main problem - you could do a gal raid with your multiple planets pretty easily. Sure, they're not attacking the same planets but x:x:1, x:x:2, x:x:3, etc. Is that fair?


One of the great equalisers in Planetarion is that everyone only has one planet. Your opponent can be wiped out just as completely as you can, given the application of enough firepower. I don't believe that this should change.
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Unread 11 Jul 2007, 10:43   #20
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Re: Make Multying Legal

Would that be any different if everyone had two, or three, or four planets?
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Unread 11 Jul 2007, 10:56   #21
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Re: Make Multying Legal

how about colonisation where you can have the option to populate a 'dead' planet at a certain tech level and use it however you want - it only gives you bonuses when you have a sufficient force defending it and should you lose too much, it becomes free to be occupied by another player.

these 'dead' planets could vary in size and space for additional constructions and more scope for planetary mining of natural resources (i.e. metal heavy world would be wanted by terrans) and could add a whole new dimension to the game (with the tactics that come hand in hand).

we would have to add more fleets though (to allow one to occupy a second/third/etc... planet - but people have been asking for more fleets for years so i cant see anyone disagreeing with that).

either that or you can use a proportion of your population as a 'ground force' to protect your colonies.... hmmm
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Unread 11 Jul 2007, 10:58   #22
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Re: Make Multying Legal

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk
Would that be any different if everyone had two, or three, or four planets?
Slightly.

It would be much harder to wipe out a player completely, as furball pointed out. There would be 10k planets around, and at the same time it would add more depth to the actual gameplay. That's about the shortest possible summary.

All of those consequences have it's good and bad sides actually. I just happen to think that the good points outweigh the bad ones on this one.

And I still remain opposed to any (hardcoded or not) limits to multiple accounts interaction except farming. That would just lead to people trying to exploit all the possible holes in it, and I'm guessing it would be harder to implement than the support planet rule.

In theory, we're not even talking about "multiing" here. We're talking about adding the feature of a player controlling more than one planet.

Edit: tux's idea isn't bad either at first sight, but it would require a major coding effort, and as such I doubt it's likely to ever be implemented.
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Unread 11 Jul 2007, 14:16   #23
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Re: Make Multying Legal

Quote:
Originally Posted by furball
On topic, I remain opposed to allowing multiple planets.


The golden era of PA was when 180k planets existed and there were about 80000 players. 10k still wouldn't be enough to re-create those conditions.
Are you sure? I mean, MHs weren't in effect then - how do you know there weren't loads of multies? Plus there were a hell of a lot of planets that signed up and never played (it being a free round). Also, I thought it was nearer 80k. I didn't play then, so sorry if I'm wrong.


Quote:
Originally Posted by furball
I looked at your hardcoding suggestions and you missed the main problem - you could do a gal raid with your multiple planets pretty easily. Sure, they're not attacking the same planets but x:x:1, x:x:2, x:x:3, etc. Is that fair?
Seeing as you can call on defence from more people, as each of your friends has 5 or so planets, I think so. It's essentially exactly the same as it is now, except with bigger numbers.


Quote:
Originally Posted by furball
One of the great equalisers in Planetarion is that everyone only has one planet. Your opponent can be wiped out just as completely as you can, given the application of enough firepower. I don't believe that this should change.
Without meaning to be rude, I don't think you're looking at this laterally. You're still thinking of it as a few people having multiple planets, while some only own one or two. That isn't how it would work.
Most people would have 3-5 planets, and be able to use them together. The best players will be those who macromanage and use teamwork to make all planets work well together. If you screw up your managing, you're going to end up with one big planet and a load of little ones that get left behind (and are effectively useless).
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Unread 11 Jul 2007, 14:21   #24
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Re: Make Multying Legal

Not everyone wants to play multiple planets - consider the people who can only get onto PA for 5 minutes every few hours. Running multiple planets might be a bit tricky for them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomkat
Are you sure? I mean, MHs weren't in effect then - how do you know there weren't loads of multies? Plus there were a hell of a lot of planets that signed up and never played (it being a free round). Also, I thought it was nearer 80k. I didn't play then, so sorry if I'm wrong.
No-one has exact figures, but in Round 4 there were 180k planets. Estimating the number of actual players is very difficult, but 80000 seems to have been the number generally agreed on. Error bounds of +-20k, I'd say.
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Unread 11 Jul 2007, 15:12   #25
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Re: Make Multying Legal

I like the exploration aspect of it myself. If you could introduce it into the game at the right level you could make it a viable alternative to conventional gameplay. So you have new researches which enable you to find new planets and then build up these as per normal (perhaps with some/a total degree of cross-over with researches. This would make it so it wouldn't be a huge advantage to have extra planets and wouldn't dick over the relative "inactives" wakey mentions but it still brings a new aspect to the game which could prove beneficial for both solo and alliance players.

Certainly I think this is something which deserves serious consideration.
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Unread 11 Jul 2007, 15:45   #26
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Re: Make Multying Legal

Quote:
Originally Posted by furball
Not everyone wants to play multiple planets - consider the people who can only get onto PA for 5 minutes every few hours. Running multiple planets might be a bit tricky for them.
These kind of people aren't likely to be serious contenders for a top planet anyway, as their activity is low. In all honesty, I'm not sure they even exist. 5 minutes every couple of hours isn't enough to get on, ask for scans, receive the scans, analyse the scans, and then decide on a recall or not.

In fact, having more than one planet would probably make it easier for them. Log into your designated scan planet, JGP all targets, do a couple of units if necessary, then log into the necessary other planets and recall if necessary. Much quicker than loading up IRC and asking around for scanners, then realising you're out of time and have to logoff the computer.
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Unread 11 Jul 2007, 16:02   #27
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Re: Make Multying Legal

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
I like the exploration aspect of it myself. If you could introduce it into the game at the right level you could make it a viable alternative to conventional gameplay. So you have new researches which enable you to find new planets and then build up these as per normal (perhaps with some/a total degree of cross-over with researches. This would make it so it wouldn't be a huge advantage to have extra planets and wouldn't dick over the relative "inactives" wakey mentions but it still brings a new aspect to the game which could prove beneficial for both solo and alliance players.

Certainly I think this is something which deserves serious consideration.
Now that's a superb idea, I'm very intrigued by the possibilities of that. If you make founding a new planet subject to a fairly major capital investment, their effects shouldn't dominate the top ranks too much (trade-off between building ships and founding planets) while still being viable for everyone else. A balancing act, obviously.
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Unread 11 Jul 2007, 16:07   #28
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Re: Make Multying Legal

Quote:
Originally Posted by furball
If you make founding a new planet subject to a fairly major capital investment, their effects shouldn't dominate the top ranks too much (trade-off between building ships and founding planets) while still being viable for everyone else. A balancing act, obviously.
Actually, wouldn't the requirement for a capital investment in order to get an additional planet do exactly the opposite? Instead of allowing everyone additional planets, only those who can afford it will get them, and those who can afford it will be in the top ranks.

That said, I do think the basic idea is pretty good regardless.
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Unread 11 Jul 2007, 16:13   #29
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Re: Make Multying Legal

Not if it's research/construction style development related as opposed to resource expenditure related development. So you need to research exploration for 120 ticks and then you get your new planet. Or you copy the early days of roid scans and it's more like research for 120 ticks and build 10 spaceports and get a % chance of finding a new planet when you launch an exploration mission which costs, say, 500k of each res. And to get a new planet after that (for both approaches) you have to research for 180 ticks let's say.
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Unread 11 Jul 2007, 16:16   #30
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Re: Make Multying Legal

That makes much more sense, yeah. It would also provide plenty of planets of all sizes in the universe, and it shouldn't be a problem for every low/average ranked player to find some underdeveloped planet to attack.

It would be nice to get the entire idea properly formatted.

(Although considering the amount of work required to implement it, I'm slightly sceptical)
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Unread 11 Jul 2007, 16:20   #31
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Re: Make Multying Legal

I'm not sure about the amount of work. Do x, get a new planet (not even necessarily linked to the old account). New planet has x,y and z starting researches and interactions between the two are limited, preferably hardcoded.
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Unread 11 Jul 2007, 16:27   #32
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Re: Make Multying Legal

Quote:
Originally Posted by wakey
People currently multi for pretty much a single reason, to gain an advantage.
Do you have any evidence towards this claim?
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Unread 11 Jul 2007, 16:30   #33
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Re: Make Multying Legal

I thought we weren't going with the interaction limitations (bar attacking/farming)? Especially when planets are incorporated into the development process like this, and players pay the price of developping a secondary or tertiary planet, they should be allowed to fully use the benefits of this (such as attacking with fleets from both planets, and the like).

As for the work, it would also require interface modifications to accomodate additional planets, and I'm guessing the "planet" would have to be separated from the "player" (although I'm not quite sure how the database is structured currently), which would involve a lot of changes here and there. It's not massive work anyway, but it's more than just spawning an additional account.

By the way, would XP and bashlimits be planet or player related? And score, while we're at it.
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Unread 11 Jul 2007, 16:34   #34
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Re: Make Multying Legal

If they're incorporated into the development process I don't think I'd put many/any limitations upon them, aside from attacking each other or being on separate sides at a third planet (ship-farming by proxy).


I think it'd be quite a bit of coding work, as you say. As for XP/bashlimits, you'd have to make them planet-related since otherwise you'd be handicapping the new planet a great deal.
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Unread 11 Jul 2007, 18:08   #35
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Re: Make Multying Legal

Allowing people to multi wouldn't take much in the way of coding.

This idea of "founding new planets" would. That's the main difference. As nice it is, and as great it'd be, I really don't think it's realistic. Coming up with suggestions is fun (jeez... I think I've made 5 threads in here in this round alone) but if they're unrealistic and demand loads of work, they won't be done.

The topic is about legalising multi accounts with rules. Not about going off at a tangent onto a new area which (let's be honest here) wouldn't realistically be implemented until a new paid coder can join the scene.
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Unread 11 Jul 2007, 18:18   #36
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Re: Make Multying Legal

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomkat
The topic is about legalising multi accounts with rules. Not about going off at a tangent onto a new area which (let's be honest here) wouldn't realistically be implemented until a new paid coder can join the scene.
Then I'll go back to my point of being opposed to legalising multiple accounts and merely applying rules to them, for reasons earlier stated. I do believe, however, that a gameplay situation can be created for players to have multiple planets, and that this can be done via planetary development.
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Unread 11 Jul 2007, 19:27   #37
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Re: Make Multying Legal

I'm with furball here. That hardly ever happens
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Unread 11 Jul 2007, 19:44   #38
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Re: Make Multying Legal

I dont find multiable accounts per person an improving feature in pa.
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Unread 12 Jul 2007, 00:09   #39
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Re: Make Multying Legal

The idea that having more accounts would make the universe bigger isnt true. Of course in the beginning, people would have more targets. but as the game develops, its getting impossible to manage all those accounts. So people steadily drop their worst accounts, which become inactive or just small at best. So, in the end, you end up wioth only a few more actual accounts.

Also, If you want to limit accounts, you should prevent planets from joining the same galaxy or alliance, which would raise security issues: Hcs dont like it if you are in 2 alliances.....
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Unread 12 Jul 2007, 00:15   #40
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Re: Make Multying Legal

Quote:
Originally Posted by Remy
The idea that having more accounts would make the universe bigger isnt true.
What?

Also I'm not sure what you're basing your theory of "people will drop out as they get bored of their smaller planets" on. You have nothing to back it up with.
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Unread 12 Jul 2007, 00:42   #41
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Re: Make Multying Legal

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomkat
If you'd read the posts before yours you'd see that it was agreed people should have a limit on the number of planets they could own. Once you go beyond 5 planets per person that really is a lot of micromanagement to be dealing with (not to mention a lot of money).
What has your reply got to do with the part of my post you quoted?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomkat
Noone's forcing you to sign up multiple accounts. Also, who's to say that a multi account holder WILL win? We have people multying now yet not winning rounds (as far as we know).
While Winning == Success, Success != Winning and people need to actually realise this

Multing does give you an advantage and I don't think theres any denying that and while it doesnt guarantee a win there is a benefit so for those able to manage them well they have a massive step up

And you say no-one forces you to have multiple accounts if everyone else has them you will be starting at a disadvantage befire you even start

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomkat
What?

Also I'm not sure what you're basing your theory of "people will drop out as they get bored of their smaller planets" on. You have nothing to back it up with.
How about the fact that this happens Right Now when players only have a single account?

As such its a pretty solid theory to take that when players have accounts that arent good they will get bored of them and not bother to play them
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Unread 12 Jul 2007, 01:36   #42
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Re: Make Multying Legal

Quote:
Originally Posted by wakey
As such its a pretty solid theory to take that when players have accounts that arent good they will get bored of them and not bother to play them
That depends on wheter we have non-interaction rules or not.

In case there are no non-interaction rules, I doubt anyone would abandon their planets just like that. Everyone would want those additional spiders, vipers, nixes to be at hand to complement their main fleet. There wouldn't be many that would just drop that opportunity, and stop bothering with other planets. It's just too good to miss out on!

At the same time, it would provide the universe with plenty of planets that can't quite survive on their own, which means they would be decent targets for any average or smaller player to roid. In general, more targets for everyone, which means less chance for an individual planet to be hit.

In case we do have non-interaction rules (can't defend each other, or attack together), it's a vague point really. I'm not quite sure what would the benefits of the whole thing be then, from a player's perspective.
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Unread 12 Jul 2007, 12:06   #43
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Re: Make Multying Legal

I am against 1 player having multiple planets, for some of the reasons remy allready posted.
What i'd rather see in the game instead of people having multiple planets is people having 1 planet that has moons / spacestations you can use in any way you want.
These moons are limited in what they can do:
Production moon / station: speeds up your production time, ability to build your factories here.
Refinery moon / station: Increases your mining income with 10-25% + lowers initiating costs
Research moon / station: Increases the speed of your researches + has special researches of its own to make special parts for ships / constructions
Defence moon / station: a PDS like structure which shoots at enemy's when they attack you, it targets all ships. Ability to upgrade with stronger & unique weapons (steal, emp & subvert)
Security moon / station: defends your planet against covert ops & makes your own agents better. Learns your agents special cov ops.
Population moon / station: Increases your population level drasticly (though before this can work pa-team needs to figure out what they want to do with population and the increase of it)

A few more technical details:
Moons / Stations don't cost resources to teraform / build. They do however take a long time to research (in a seperate section so you can still do your researches as normal)
They require 10.000 population working on each that will be transfered from your planet to your moon / station.
You can only have a maximum of 3 moons / stations. This will cause each planet to be able to become more unique, giving the player the ability to go the way he wants too.
Moons / stations can't be completly destroyed, they can however recieve damage. The more damage it recieves the smaller the bonusses it gives will be (100% damage = 0% of the bonus it gives) & the longer it will take for the player to repair it & repairs cost resources.

I know this is not multying, but i think it's a good way to give players more things to do, become a more unique planet.
Though limited in functions these moons / stations add a level of management to your planet and need to be managed too (though on a smaller level than an actual planet.
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Unread 12 Jul 2007, 13:12   #44
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Re: Make Multying Legal

Quote:
How about the fact that this happens Right Now when players only have a single account?

As such its a pretty solid theory to take that when players have accounts that arent good they will get bored of them and not bother to play them
Even if true the number of active players is likely to increase anyways based on the fact people have more options. So instead of getting bored and quitting they might get bored and quit only one account or planet.

I think there is a lot to be said separately for ideas along these lines which are not "buy a new account" such as those outlined by veedeejem or, more simplistically, by myself. There is nothing objectionable about giving something up ingame in order to gain new options.
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Unread 12 Jul 2007, 15:27   #45
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Re: Make Multying Legal

Quote:
Originally Posted by wakey
Multing does give you an advantage and I don't think theres any denying that and while it doesnt guarantee a win there is a benefit so for those able to manage them well they have a massive step up
So you're saying that the game becomes worse by adding another element of skill/tactics/management to it?



Quote:
Originally Posted by wakey
How about the fact that this happens Right Now when players only have a single account?
So by having more accounts/planets, people are more likely to stick around and play the next round. If some of their planets don't grow at the same rate, then it's their fault for managing them badly. It doesn't make the game worse. As long as they have one decent planet, they're likely to still keep playing. Currently, if their ONE planet doesn't do well, they quit and that's it for the round.
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Unread 12 Jul 2007, 15:29   #46
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Re: Make Multying Legal

The thing is, JBG and VDJ, that people are suggesting things that require more coding on a large level. We know that the PA Team is already pretty strained with workloads. Giving them new ideas is nice, but there isn't much chance of them being implemented. The "allow people multiple planets, with a few of the rules tweaked" is relatively easy to implement.
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Unread 12 Jul 2007, 15:46   #47
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Re: Make Multying Legal

New research, new scan. One free credit and a planet created. Not exactly rocket science.
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Unread 12 Jul 2007, 17:53   #48
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Re: Make Multying Legal

Yeah JBGs is actually pretty simple, I like the idea of adding a research which can obviously be capped to say 5 planets, I actually thinkthere should be no restrictions with other planets though, bar being able to attack each planet and cov op that planet, everything else should be ok.
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Unread 12 Jul 2007, 20:38   #49
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Re: Make Multying Legal

Surely this would not be the salvation of PA i am quite sure.
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Unread 12 Jul 2007, 21:03   #50
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Re: Make Multying Legal

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red-
Surely this would not be the salvation of PA i am quite sure.
What the hell is your point?
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