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Unread 27 Nov 2009, 22:00   #351
Fuzzy
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Re: Interesting change in politics

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wishmaster View Post
qft

think most in subh hate me now tbh, cause I yell at the crashers, while the others say we should teach them how to not crash.

:facepalm:
"ok well, have you heard of an alarm clock? no?
right...well, an alarm clock is like a normal clock, but you can set it to make loud noises at a certain time! crazy i know.

so the first thing you do is buy an alarm clock, then you need to set the time. set the time on your alarm clock so it goes off BEFORE eta 1 not after...i think this is where a lot of people go wrong.

you see, when you set the alarm clock AFTER eta 1 then its too late and youve already landed, this is why your fleet died.

So in order to not crash in the future you must

a/ buy alarm clock
b/ set alarm clock
c/ calculate attack using a BATTLE CALCULATOR
d/ press recall button if youre going to die

Once you master this complex and secret trick of the trade youre well on the way to becoming a semi-useful planetarion player, congratulations! "
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Unread 27 Nov 2009, 22:01   #352
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Re: Interesting change in politics

Fuzzy, can you maybe go in to a bit more detail? I'm not quite sure I follow
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Unread 27 Nov 2009, 22:05   #353
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Re: Interesting change in politics

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Originally Posted by lokken View Post
Looking at it from an entirely outside perspective, subh's profile on sandmans suggests that in terms of making an impression on this round, they're dead. They've been stagnant since PT 500, and it's days like this that are just an accumulation of what's happened before.

If they care about their long term future, they'd do well to pull out of this conflict, kick out all the people who crashed and getting cheap roids wherever they can find them.
And then to think that Ali used it in his motivational speech (something he is doing more and more, a sign of fail I think) that we asked him for a NAP.

I can only quote Lokken for truth.
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Unread 27 Nov 2009, 22:06   #354
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Re: Interesting change in politics

im currently in the process of writing a book titled 'HOW NOT TO CRASH IN PLANETARION', with the input and assistance of experts in the fields of physics, psychology and zoology.

this book is set for release in early 2017, pre-purchase is available from amazon.co.uk within the next 6 months.

each copy comes with a free alarm clock!
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Unread 27 Nov 2009, 22:22   #355
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Re: Interesting change in politics

Doing 'decent' in planetarion is more about planning ahead, knowing whether you are going to be around for the landing time, and if it's a maybe not, I'd be thinking of doing something like not attacking.

Trying to wake up early for PA is pretty much people's primary mistake when it comes to this game.
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Unread 27 Nov 2009, 23:46   #356
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Re: Interesting change in politics

Quote:
Originally Posted by lokken View Post
Doing 'decent' in planetarion is more about planning ahead, knowing whether you are going to be around for the landing time, and if it's a maybe not, I'd be thinking of doing something like not attacking.

Trying to wake up early for PA is pretty much people's primary mistake when it comes to this game.
Getting drunk or laid (or both) also means you probably shouldn't push PA buttons.

I believe I lost 1200 roids to a rank ~800 planet once because of a particularly heavy night
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Unread 28 Nov 2009, 00:42   #357
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Re: Interesting change in politics

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gate View Post
Getting drunk or laid (or both) also means you probably shouldn't push PA buttons.

I believe I lost 1200 roids to a rank ~800 planet once because of a particularly heavy night
I also heard that being decent involves that you treat the people you are working with kindly. That is why I wonder subh/ND take it that Euphoria has later LT's then them when sharing targets. Using your allies as flak is not so nice!
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Unread 28 Nov 2009, 01:14   #358
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Re: Interesting change in politics

Do you have news scans to back up that most slanderous claim Theam?!
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Unread 28 Nov 2009, 01:22   #359
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Re: Interesting change in politics

In fact I have them here, don't worry!

http://game.planetarion.com/showscan...3wanc26bpw2yr6 one of NDs targets first wave landing 665.

http://game.planetarion.com/showscan...23bd6e31s38m71 one of Subh's targets, first wave landing 665

http://game.planetarion.com/showscan...zt8p9utvwpp5up one of CT's targets, first wave landing 665

http://game.planetarion.com/showscan...68h8h4jchxs8w7 one of Euphoria's targets, first wave landing 665 (seeing the pattern here yet?)

In fact, it seems we (DLR) launched a tick later for some reason http://game.planetarion.com/showscan...bbcxnpzi11ut60 (contains bonus crash brep)

So get your facts straight man

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Unread 28 Nov 2009, 01:37   #360
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Re: Interesting change in politics

check how many fleets of Euph went to 6 6. The 'easy roids'.

I am learning this whole politics thingy. But I always learned you give your allies something to be allied with you. It should be a synergy. At the moment it seems like Euph are having their allies with them in fear, while the reality is that it all started as an Euph/DLR gangbang vs Apprime. Subh/ND joined for easy roids, but are getting the full shaft at the moment back. Subh is crumbling under it, members leaving, emo'ing, access removed, while ND is getting reluctant to launch on these 'attacks that don't yield roids anyway'. I won't talk about CT. You really have to see how you are treating your allies.
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Unread 28 Nov 2009, 01:46   #361
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Re: Interesting change in politics

lol
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Unread 28 Nov 2009, 02:00   #362
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Re: Interesting change in politics

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Originally Posted by [ND]Byrney View Post
In fact, it seems we (DLR) launched a tick later for some reason
Yeah, my bad.
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Unread 28 Nov 2009, 03:10   #363
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Re: Interesting change in politics

I guess you're trolling Theam but just in case you're not

http://game.planetarion.com/showscan...yrwjgtf0p7tgrw (another bonus crash brep inside) 6.6.6 first wave landing at 665.

As for why Subh/CT/ND joined our block in the first place, I expect it had more to do with the fact that they could never beat Apprime or Ascendancy in a roid race and less to do with easy roids.

Oh and as far as 'synergy' goes, how about we're hitting the 2 main threats to their ally ranks (also the 2 hardest allies to roid ofc) consistently when we could be peacefully galraiding and building up planet ranks?
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Unread 28 Nov 2009, 07:24   #364
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Re: Interesting change in politics

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Originally Posted by Knight Theamion View Post
I also heard that being decent involves that you treat the people you are working with kindly. That is why I wonder subh/ND take it that Euphoria has later LT's then them when sharing targets. Using your allies as flak is not so nice!
lol propaganda

u fail at this Theam, JBG did a better job
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Unread 28 Nov 2009, 08:28   #365
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Re: Interesting change in politics

What a sad day, Theam getting owned on the forums Bring JBG back!
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Unread 28 Nov 2009, 09:37   #366
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Re: Interesting change in politics

I'll make it easy for you Fuzzy:

How not to crash, by Linkie:

Don't do it.
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Unread 28 Nov 2009, 10:36   #367
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Re: Interesting change in politics

It's a rather bizarre line of attack from Theamion, as in Ascendancy's position he doesn't need to do it even if what he's saying was true. In fact, in Ascendancy's position I'd be quite content with the situation as it is - losing 5%, keeping your roid lead and gaining more score than everyone else is an excellent result if you ask me.
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Unread 28 Nov 2009, 12:56   #368
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Re: Interesting change in politics

I guess I was in the wrong then. In that case the coordination within the block just doesn't seem to be that awesome. I was looking for a reason behind it and the most obvious one was 'one is being opportunistic and launching a bit later and on easier targets'.
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Unread 28 Nov 2009, 20:21   #369
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Re: Interesting change in politics

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuzzy View Post
"ok well, have you heard of an alarm clock? no?
right...well, an alarm clock is like a normal clock, but you can set it to make loud noises at a certain time! crazy i know.

so the first thing you do is buy an alarm clock, then you need to set the time. set the time on your alarm clock so it goes off BEFORE eta 1 not after...i think this is where a lot of people go wrong.
"

ok well, have you heard of beer? no? makes you not hear your alarmclock
crazy i know,
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Unread 28 Nov 2009, 20:25   #370
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Re: Interesting change in politics

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Originally Posted by HeimdallR View Post
ok well, have you heard of beer? no? makes you not hear your alarmclock
crazy i know,
then dont attack if your going out on the beer , its that simple .
if you have any doubts that you cannot be on when your due to land (meaning eta 1 not 0) then dont attack
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Unread 28 Nov 2009, 20:37   #371
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Re: Interesting change in politics

i take the amount of my beer consumption into consideration when
figuring out my best landing times,
btw i can't blame beer, im belgian, Stella runs through my vains each day


just letting my teamups doing calcs is usually that gets me to crashing.
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Unread 28 Nov 2009, 22:10   #372
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Re: Interesting change in politics

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Originally Posted by HeimdallR View Post
i take the amount of my beer consumption into consideration when
figuring out my best landing times,
btw i can't blame beer, im belgian, Stella runs through my vains each day


just letting my teamups doing calcs is usually that gets me to crashing.
Always somebody else's fault!
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Unread 29 Nov 2009, 07:58   #373
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Re: Interesting change in politics

ND's motivation for being involved is obvious (surprised even Theam missed it). Its Subh's involvement that is bewildering, they turned down an opportunity to take out ND whilst they were 2nd and seemed to be round contenders, then jumped in with the block and when offered the opportunity to withdraw with no negative consequences from Asc/Apprime their answer was they wanted to win the round and as such couldn't let either Asc of Apprime get a lead.

Imo one of the first things as a HC you should be aware of is the potential of your alliance, if Subh's HC team genuinely believes they can win this round then I respectfully ask that they share whatever it is they're smoking with me!
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Unread 29 Nov 2009, 08:22   #374
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Re: Interesting change in politics

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ND's motivation for being involved is obvious (surprised even Theam missed it). Its Subh's involvement that is bewildering, they turned down an opportunity to take out ND whilst they were 2nd and seemed to be round contenders, then jumped in with the block and when offered the opportunity to withdraw with no negative consequences from Asc/Apprime their answer was they wanted to win the round and as such couldn't let either Asc of Apprime get a lead.

Imo one of the first things as a HC you should be aware of is the potential of your alliance, if Subh's HC team genuinely believes they can win this round then I respectfully ask that they share whatever it is they're smoking with me!
Agree with pretty much all of that. Subh played like an alliance who felt they could win, it seems obvious now that it was never a possibility.
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Unread 29 Nov 2009, 10:39   #375
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Re: Interesting change in politics

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Agree with pretty much all of that. Subh played like an alliance who felt they could win, it seems obvious now that it was never a possibility.
I personally never had the feeling Subh could win, and I think most (ex) insiders will agree with me here. We're more of the casual players, which is fine up until the point where it's gonna get rough.
Though, I -was- willing to give it a shot, because not winning is too often simply the cause of not trying.

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Unread 29 Nov 2009, 11:21   #376
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Re: Interesting change in politics

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Originally Posted by Turtle View Post
Its Subh's involvement that is bewildering, they turned down an opportunity to take out ND whilst they were 2nd and seemed to be round contenders, then jumped in with the block and when offered the opportunity to withdraw with no negative consequences from Asc/Apprime their answer was they wanted to win the round and as such couldn't let either Asc of Apprime get a lead.
To be honest, that sounds pretty sensible.


No alliance can outroid Asc or Apprime. I don't think any other ally could take them on one on one either.

Even if Subh had taken down ND, that would have left them in the situation of either a) roidracing Asc/Apprime (they lose) or b) fighting Asc/Apprime with one fewer ally (they're more likely to lose).

If Subh hadn't crashed as much and had eventually worn down Asc/Apprime so they weren't in the running (which would take well over a week. Even if Subh got a hard time to start with, they'd eventually get low on roids and Asc/Apprime would be forced to go elsewhere), they could either a) roidrace ND or b) fight ND. Both of which are easier.


The only way any other ally is going to beat Asc/Apprime is for there to be a block that fights those 2 down. In simple self interested theory free riding is the most sensible choice, but if alliances do that then there will be no block and they lose anyway.
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Unread 29 Nov 2009, 11:24   #377
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Re: Interesting change in politics

Should have stayed out of the block the first time App was hit. Ali felt brave though without realising App would turn to Subh. (or maybe ignoring that fact) The anti App-Asc block would have been made either way.
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Unread 29 Nov 2009, 11:32   #378
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Re: Interesting change in politics

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Should have stayed out of the block the first time App was hit. Ali felt brave though without realising App would turn to Subh. (or maybe ignoring that fact) The anti App-Asc block would have been made either way.
Had we not helped "the block" hit Apprime, Ascendancy would have never been hit.
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Unread 29 Nov 2009, 11:41   #379
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Re: Interesting change in politics

Cause 5 alliances wouldn't realize at some point Asc being twice as fat as App? I'm not saying Subh should have stayed out the whole round, i said the first time. Subh was doing very well with galraiding and had no reason to join in on a gangbang on App. After App hit them for 2 or 3 days it all went downhill
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Unread 29 Nov 2009, 12:08   #380
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Re: Interesting change in politics

Being hit isnt that bad. Every ally in the block gets hit, ofcourse. Its the ability to get over it that matters, and the loyalty of the members and their trust in the choices of HC.

If all those who left Subh stayed with them, they would still be #4 rank and would still have had a chance of winning the round. Now, with the few top100 players leaving and internal emoing and questioning of the authority of the HC, their chances are gone.

Ofc, its always easy to point ur finger afterwards and say: see, i knew you should've done this or that instead of what you actually did..but imo the choice of sticking to the block wasnt the reason for the collapse as we saw. I still have good hopes for them to recover and remain active till the end. Kick the emo's and come back strong!
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Unread 29 Nov 2009, 12:31   #381
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Re: Interesting change in politics

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I personally never had the feeling Subh could win, and I think most (ex) insiders will agree with me here. We're more of the casual players, which is fine up until the point where it's gonna get rough.
Though, I -was- willing to give it a shot, because not winning is too often simply the cause of not trying.
correct me if i am getting the wrong end of the stick on this one, but what i get from your post is that as soon as Subh joined the block and started to get some incommings, people bailed because that's essentially not what they signed up for?

So it begs the question, is it the command of Subh who are at fault here or is it the 'players' who are at fault for not being able to hack being attacked in a war game? (i am aware there is the option that both are as culpable as each other)
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Unread 29 Nov 2009, 12:51   #382
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Re: Interesting change in politics

Well there seems to have been a group of players who joined for galaxy fencing purposes or simply to avoid being involved in an alliance war. Its possible to ridicule people for both reasons but I can understand the sentiments behind both.
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Unread 29 Nov 2009, 12:54   #383
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Re: Interesting change in politics

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If all those who left Subh stayed with them, they would still be #4 rank and would still have had a chance of winning the round. Now, with the few top100 players leaving and internal emoing and questioning of the authority of the HC, their chances are gone.

but imo the choice of sticking to the block wasnt the reason for the collapse as we saw.
IF IF IF. And no they would not be still ranked #4
Subh managed to crash so much value on att and def it demotivated most decent players they had. How did this happen? yes by sticking to the block!

But i'm interested though, if the block is not the reason for the death of subh then what is it Onim?
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Unread 29 Nov 2009, 13:04   #384
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Re: Interesting change in politics

Subh were crashing well before they started hitting you, you're not that special man.
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Unread 29 Nov 2009, 13:06   #385
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Re: Interesting change in politics

Yes, ND taught them well
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Unread 29 Nov 2009, 13:08   #386
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Re: Interesting change in politics

They probably did, yes.
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Unread 29 Nov 2009, 13:10   #387
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Re: Interesting change in politics

What's your point though. There is a difference between crashing on random nobodies or crashing on an alliance that will put the value to better use + make fun of the crashers for it.
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Unread 29 Nov 2009, 13:15   #388
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Re: Interesting change in politics

All I'm saying is I think they were failing before they joined the block, didn't make a whole heap of difference if they stayed in or not imo. Maybe they could have held on to some more of their 'emo' members had they just withdrawn and started galraiding again though.
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Unread 29 Nov 2009, 13:18   #389
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Re: Interesting change in politics

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correct me if i am getting the wrong end of the stick on this one, but what i get from your post is that as soon as Subh joined the block and started to get some incommings, people bailed because that's essentially not what they signed up for?

So it begs the question, is it the command of Subh who are at fault here or is it the 'players' who are at fault for not being able to hack being attacked in a war game? (i am aware there is the option that both are as culpable as each other)
I think that the first few weeks of the round gave us a wrong impression of what our actual strength was. So I'd say both, yes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turtle
Well there seems to have been a group of players who joined for galaxy fencing purposes or simply to avoid being involved in an alliance war. Its possible to ridicule people for both reasons but I can understand the sentiments behind both.
I'm sure a few players did. But I'm also sure not one of them expected Subh to house this many crashers.

And as Byrney pointed out, if people crash in a war, they would have crashed in normal galraids eventually as well.
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Unread 29 Nov 2009, 14:18   #390
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Re: Interesting change in politics

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But i'm interested though, if the block is not the reason for the death of subh then what is it Onim?
As i said in my post, and ill make it more general: the members are what makes an alliance. So the members' willingness to be loyal, to put time and effort into long term alliance goals (which means looking after your fellow alliance mates, teaching noobs, calling ppl who are about to crash or who are needed to send def even though it doesnt affect ur individual joy of the game etc)

i think Subh was too fat and became blinded by their rank, thinking they could actually be topranked alliance. They could, if their core was assembled as a loyal group playing fully for alliance. We all know there were some questionable players among their ranks, who had no ties to Subh nor their HC. 12 members left Subh (or were kicked) from tick 583 (last tuesday) onwards. Im not saying they are bad members, but relatively speaking 12 out of 65 who are not loyal enough to stick with the alliance of choice when the going gets rough, has a big enough effect on how the alliance works. Its like a virus or infection metaphorically speaking.

The crashing is merely a result of the alliance not being a natural 'group'. Maybe, with a smaller tag, they can work on that, its not that hard to imagine tbh.
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Unread 29 Nov 2009, 16:11   #391
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Re: Interesting change in politics

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Being hit isnt that bad. Every ally in the block gets hit, ofcourse. Its the ability to get over it that matters, and the loyalty of the members and their trust in the choices of HC.

Being a bit in the know on the bookings of Asc/Apprime, I wonder if subh and DLR agree with you there.
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Unread 29 Nov 2009, 16:14   #392
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Re: Interesting change in politics

id like to point out a few things. And at the same time explain a few things for those who doesnt know why apprime and subh are not best friends anymore!

1) you can not prepare an alliance for war by naping the universe. Subh hardly had incs and they had 70 members spread all around the universe with 2-3 in each gal. This resulted in nubroiding which combined with low incs made them grow a decent size over time.

hello admit the obvious and stop denying the NAPs!

What i have been countered with before is "we did have incs" and i dont challenge that, i am just saying that a 70man tag scattered around the universe is bound to get a lot of random incs. atleast 60 a night! when you dont, your HCs have NAPed someone and "forgot" to tell the "normal" members about it.

2) Its the officers and HCs job to know how good your alliance is when it comes to war.
When we heard subh helped set up the gangbang on apprime it was a stab in our face because we didnt want to hit subh, we wanted to help them build their alliance. much because of Ali. we also had a NAP! I think it took cardi just about 2,7 seconds to PM Ali and go to war on subh, with 100% support from all members. The next 3 nights we focused all firepower on their top gal, which held a lot of active members, resulting in the gal crashing fleets and disbanding. They held up alright the first night and defence was good, next night it was shit, and third night they crashed fleets in defence and their top gal disbanded. At the same time we recieved 0 fleets from Subh, so it was a really boring and short war and Apprime moved on to hit DLR instead

What i pointed out in the start, the HCs, or maybe in this case the HC, overevaluated the willingness of their members to have a war as they lasted 1 night, and collapsed the second and third.

3) Subh had the option to face their mistake and stop hitting apprime since it was obvious they had no memberbase to fight a war. But after we stopped hitting them they started hitting us with a bunch of other alliances again. So we put them on hold and waited for a chance to hit them back again.

4) Holding our heads just above the water with fighting DLR and Euphoria at the same time, both ND and Subh had a chance to exploit this and build up instead of hitting Apprime. I agree in that they made some easy roids by joining the party, but they could have made easy roids elsewhere while Apprime were busy. Instead they crashed stupid amounts of value for roids, landing 300k value to cap 150-200 roids for OK roids. When we hit them back this week to get them back, they had little value to defend with. It resulted in a neverending crashparty on apprime planets, while we roided most of their remaining active members.

5) At every stage of this fight against subh, apprime have been systematically pointing out every mistake that has been done by subh, and making fun of their crashers. Its really the only way people will learn that crashing is not ok in a war, and it lowers the morale of the entire group. The experienced players in subh should perhaps have tried calling people to make sure they didnt crash on their raids. or atleast JGP the raids!! my galmate crashed because he was told he would get a mail if its a recall, he heard nothing and crashed.

Maybe this is more then some bother to read, but this is how i think subh failed. They can still get out of it and build a good core but a good alliancerank is shot to hell by now.
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Unread 29 Nov 2009, 16:29   #393
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Re: Interesting change in politics

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my galmate crashed because he was told he would get a mail if its a recall, he heard nothing and crashed.
Not to pick on your galmate at all, but I think that's a fairly common excuse for people crashing. A lot of the time when people crash they do say it was because of person x not sending mail y, but ultimately - it your own responsibility to run your own planet and if you crash there's really nobody else to blame but yourself.

This is why there have been so many crashes this round, on Apprime especially. Because of the value a lot of App planets have it's taking big teamups to get through on some of their top planets (or so the theory goes) and this is where it's all going wrong. People assume that because they're teaming up landing becomes instantly less their responsibility to sort.

Look after your own planet, instead of waiting for somebody else to, and you'll be fine. You may not win, but you'll avoid embarassing round-ending crashes.
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Unread 29 Nov 2009, 17:06   #394
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Re: Interesting change in politics

crashers are just idiots that dont care about this game and cba to check things out emselves.. end of story
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Unread 29 Nov 2009, 17:09   #395
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Re: Interesting change in politics

well you are totally right ofcourse, i just used it as an example on what should improve. It was not my intention to excuse him, because it certainly was mostly his own fault for not making sure it was a land or recall. Lesson learnt for him i guess!

Just trying to send out some signals that taking care of eachothers planets is a good thing, not yell at them when the damage is done while doing nothing to prevent it.
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Unread 29 Nov 2009, 17:48   #396
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Re: Interesting change in politics

Why is subh doing so poorly this round?... 2 main reasons

1. Command...
Ali for being too easily influenced
patrikc for killing morale in ally
pommeh for being a political spastic

2. too many members crashing
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Unread 29 Nov 2009, 17:51   #397
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Re: Interesting change in politics

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crashers are just idiots that dont care about this game and cba to check things out emselves.. end of story
Not caring about Planetarion doesn't make you an idiot.
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Unread 29 Nov 2009, 18:43   #398
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Re: Interesting change in politics

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Being a bit in the know on the bookings of Asc/Apprime, I wonder if subh and DLR agree with you there.
Being even more in the know than yourself - I'm quite sure - I wonder what you even mean by this, especially with regards to DLR.

EDIT: May have misunderstood your post, did you mean you're in the know about Apprime/Ascendancy bookings or the blocks bookings on Apprime/Ascendancy? Either way I'm not entirely sure what we might not agree with. Please explain further!
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Unread 29 Nov 2009, 19:47   #399
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Re: Interesting change in politics

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patrikc for killing morale in ally
If me putting in more effort than anyone else killed your will to play; guilty as charged!
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Unread 29 Nov 2009, 22:02   #400
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Re: Interesting change in politics

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Originally Posted by [ND]Byrney View Post
Being even more in the know than yourself - I'm quite sure - I wonder what you even mean by this, especially with regards to DLR.

EDIT: May have misunderstood your post, did you mean you're in the know about Apprime/Ascendancy bookings or the blocks bookings on Apprime/Ascendancy? Either way I'm not entirely sure what we might not agree with. Please explain further!
Bookings of Asc/Apprime.
As far as I know Euphoria hasn't gotten to be hit just yet. Maybe one or two nights by Apprime, but never by 'us all'.
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