The Pope is making someone who committed suicide a saint.

[JonnyBGood]

As a righteous member of the Roman Catholic community I'd like to take this opportunity to publicly voice my moral disgust at this disrespect for the teachings of our Lord. The fact she was pregnant is no excuse for effectively committing suicide. Euthanasia is an abomination in the eyes of God and I trust this witch will be found out for the charlatan she is in the next world.

[Cayl]

As a righteous member of the Roman Catholic community you also know that the Pope is infallible.

Can't have it both ways cupcake.

[Apothos]

"Sunday's ceremony will raise to more than 480 the number of saints created by John Paul II during his 25-year papacy."

I guess some of them have to share days?

[TheBerk]

how can this be seen as effectively commiting suicide??? she wanted for her child to live, to have the gift of life, surely this is a glorious thing?? does that mean jesus effectively commited suicide? 8i mean, he could have saved his own life, he knew what was coming, but allowed himself to die anyway, this is a damned similar case in my eyes, he died so others could be saved and be free to live their lives, the mother died so her child could live and have a chance at life.
480 though, thats freaking ridiculous

[Evergreen]

Jonny in troll against pro-lifers.

[Belgarath The Sorcerer]

Originally Posted by JonnyBGood

The fact she was pregnant is no excuse for effectively committing suicide. Euthanasia is an abomination in the eyes of God and I trust this witch will be found out for the charlatan she is in the next world.

You are so full of shit.

[Nodrog]

Does refusing assistance count as suicide?

[Snurx]

I give this thread gold!

[Marilyn Manson]

That man is the saint machine. Only death will stop him.

[Evergreen]

Let's hope they bring out the silver hammer before he get's down the line to people like Russel Grant.

[pablissimo]

I nominate Kevin Kennedy

[MrL_JaKiri]

Originally Posted by pablissimo

I nominate Kevin Kennedy

He was the Narrator in a production of the Rocky Horror Show I went to.

[Evergreen]

What's the miracle in all of this btw.

[Goodfellah]

Originally Posted by JonnyBGood

As a righteous member of the Roman Catholic community I'd like to take this opportunity to publicly voice my moral disgust at this disrespect for the teachings of our Lord. The fact she was pregnant is no excuse for effectively committing suicide. Euthanasia is an abomination in the eyes of God and I trust this witch will be found out for the charlatan she is in the next world.

so u would take the chance to murder (yes i said murder) the child with the threatment... thou shall not kill...remember that one johhny?i guess u are an egocentric selfish bastard

[MrL_JaKiri]

Originally Posted by Goodfellah

so u would take the chance to murder (yes i said murder) the child with the threatment... thou shall not kill...remember that one johhny?i guess u are an egocentric selfish bastard

[Marilyn Manson]

Originally Posted by Evergreen

What's the miracle in all of this btw.

The miracle is that she was ever nominated in the first place. Thus she is suitable for cannonisation.

[Vermillion]

Originally Posted by Goodfellah

so u would take the chance to murder (yes i said murder) the child with the threatment... thou shall not kill...remember that one johhny?i guess u are an egocentric selfish bastard

There was no child.
Once it was born, it was a child. Look up 'child' or 'baby' in the dictionary.
As such, there was no threat of murder. Please consult the criminal code of your country for more information on this issue.


Regardless, back to the original point:

She did not commit suicide, in particular by the definitions of the catholic church. She took actions in the preservation of what she felt was another life, at risk to herself. She no more committed suicide than a jesuit who gives themselves over to the hands of natives knowing they may be killed.

[JonnyBGood]

How was this thread taken seriously by anyone?

[pablissimo]

Hey I posted a picture of ****ing Curly Watts so I'm one-up on the serious-squad

[Intrepid00]

Originally Posted by JonnyBGood

As a righteous member of the Roman Catholic community I'd like to take this opportunity to publicly voice my moral disgust at this disrespect for the teachings of our Lord. The fact she was pregnant is no excuse for effectively committing suicide. Euthanasia is an abomination in the eyes of God and I trust this witch will be found out for the charlatan she is in the next world.

As a righteous member of the Roman Catholic Community I wish for you not to spew BS on our behalf.

[the_dastardley_chihuahua]

Originally Posted by JonnyBGood

How was this thread taken seriously by anyone?

not as good as my 'why isnt water flammable' thread that got on to three pages

[Goodfellah]

Originally Posted by Vermillion

There was no child.
Once it was born, it was a child. Look up 'child' or 'baby' in the dictionary.
As such, there was no threat of murder. Please consult the criminal code of your country for more information on this issue.


Regardless, back to the original point:

She did not commit suicide, in particular by the definitions of the catholic church. She took actions in the preservation of what she felt was another life, at risk to herself. She no more committed suicide than a jesuit who gives themselves over to the hands of natives knowing they may be killed.

i'm sorry but i believe that what a women is holding in her womb when she is pregnant is a lifeform... and killing it would be murder!! even killing animals is murder
Live and let live....!!!

[Vermillion]

Originally Posted by Goodfellah

i'm sorry but i believe that what a women is holding in her womb when she is pregnant is a lifeform... and killing it would be murder!! even killing animals is murder
Live and let live....!!!

Good for you, but the law does not agree (up to a point). Moreover, I have no problem at all with you believing that, nice to see someone with the courage of their convictions. However it is when people try and impose their beliefs on others that there is a problem. You are not a woman, and thus quite unlikely to get pregnant, thus your beliefs on this issue are pretty much moot.

[Dante Hicks]

Originally Posted by Vermillion

However it is when people try and impose their beliefs on others that there is a problem. You are not a woman, and thus quite unlikely to get pregnant, thus your beliefs on this issue are pretty much moot.

I agree with your views on your abortion of course. I do, however have a major problem with your above line of argument. Let's imagine a situation where (for some odd reason) it was legal to kill black people (or people of some particular kind, the mentally ill perhaps, it doesn't matter particularly).

Now, I am not black. I have no black family members, but that doesn't stop me having a damn strong view on the subject. If you were about to kill a black person in front of me, you can be sure I'd try to force my views on you (and worse).

So basically, while you may be right on abortion, if he was right (as he obviously believes he is) then he'd be absolutley right to try and force his opinions on everyone involved, as there'd be countless murders going on daily. If you believed this were the case, wouldn't you try and do something about it?

[Proteus]

Originally Posted by Vermillion

Good for you, but the law does not agree (up to a point).

The law of Ireland agrees (up to a point).

[MrL_JaKiri]

Originally Posted by Goodfellah

i'm sorry but i believe that what a women is holding in her womb when she is pregnant is a lifeform

No foetus (up until a certain point, anyway) has the capacity to survive on its own. It's a parasite of sorts.

[Vermillion]

Originally Posted by Dante Hicks

So basically, while you may be right on abortion, if he was right (as he obviously believes he is) then he'd be absolutley right to try and force his opinions on everyone involved, as there'd be countless murders going on daily. If you believed this were the case, wouldn't you try and do something about it?

That is why most countries have another authority to go to when it comes down to laws that may cross lines of concience. The constiturion in the US or the Charter of Rights and freedoms in canada list inalienable rights that cannot be countered by laws. Thus in your hypothetical situation where killing blacks is illegal, you have a basis for your claim. It is from this that a lot of the pro-homosexual marriage argument comes from: like it or not, we cannot discriminate.

Further, one has to ask, where does your belief in or against this particula l;aw come from? Is it religious in nature? Well if so our society is based on the principles of laws determined by secular authority. The principles of the church, which they may be deeply held personal convictions, have no say in the lawmaking of the state.


I should backtrack on one thing i said: If you were (say) anti-abortion, and a person you knew was getting one, there is nothing wrong with telling them your opinion and the reasons behind it. I do not consider an exchange of ideas to be 'forcing people to believe' anything. However, regardless of your opinions, you must accept their right to make the choice the law allows.

(Ireland aside apparently...)

[Dante Hicks]

Originally Posted by Vermillion

That is why most countries have another authority to go to when it comes down to laws that may cross lines of concience. The constiturion in the US or the Charter of Rights and freedoms in canada list inalienable rights that cannot be countered by laws.

Isn't the point though that society (or at least, the majority) doesn't recognise foetuses as human beings so constitutional protections, etc don't apply? Once again, it's trivial to imagine the law being altered (over a long enough period of time, etc) so retarded people weren't included under protected entities.

[Nodrog]

Originally Posted by Vermillion

That is why most countries have another authority to go to when it comes down to laws that may cross lines of concience. The constiturion in the US or the Charter of Rights and freedoms in canada list inalienable rights that cannot be countered by laws. Thus in your hypothetical situation where killing blacks is illegal, you have a basis for your claim. It is from this that a lot of the pro-homosexual marriage argument comes from: like it or not, we cannot discriminate.

I'm not convinced that 'the law says so' is a good justification for a person to take no action to prevent an act which they feel to be murder. If it were legal to kill asians on a friday, I'd like to think that most people wouldnt just shrug their shoulders and go "well that sucks but I suppose thats the law" as families were murdered in front of them. On a sidenote, I'd quite like a link to the section of the US Constitution that you feel states that 'discrimination' in marriage is prohibited.

Further, one has to ask, where does your belief in or against this particula l;aw come from? Is it religious in nature? Well if so our society is based on the principles of laws determined by secular authority. The principles of the church, which they may be deeply held personal convictions, have no say in the lawmaking of the state.

This isnt really true on a non-superficial level. The principles of the church tend to play a fairly large part in the law making of most states, simply because most people's moral principles have been largely affected by the church, and this often gets enshrined into law.