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Unread 30 Jan 2007, 19:51   #101
The Real Arfy
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Re: Ticks stop - rollback etc

While I would love to see a rollback to tick 72 (doesn't really affect me either way - didn't attack, didn't get attacked) because it seems most logical, I am lolling at all of you chumps who didn't predict that PA would **** up like it has done every bloody round since PaX

Seriously though:

* Those with 300+ roids are at a good advantage - admittedly not everyone will be able to take that advantage, but it doesn't require rocket science.
* Those ziks who have built ships to steal/anyone else building out of defence is now kinda screwed.

EDIT: I originally said I wanted to see a recall
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Unread 30 Jan 2007, 19:51   #102
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Re: Ticks stop - rollback etc

Quote:
Originally Posted by lokken
I have offered a solution that seriously minimises unfairness, keeps a lot of people happy and for those it's even slightly unfair on, gives people sufficient notice to act, and arrange to be online if at all possible because it's at least giving you a chance to do something. If people think they can guess their fleets accurately enough and plan to be online while the game is unaccessible so they can defend in a one hour window for those attacks that might be at ETA 5, best of luck to them.
Except your solution doesnt minimise unfairness and screws over alot of people in potentially alot more damaging ways than than losing out on a single attack. It helps the people who have nothing to lose and only something to gain
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Unread 30 Jan 2007, 19:53   #103
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Re: Ticks stop - rollback etc

Quote:
Originally Posted by DogsGrowl
If you try reading the latest posts you will realise this discuss has finnished

Its not finished just because you say so.

I have not responded days after the initial post so i fail to see how i am "resurrecting" a dead thread. This thread is still relevent even if you have nothing more to add.
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Unread 30 Jan 2007, 20:07   #104
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Re: Ticks stop - rollback etc

wakey asif you are so mistaken im not guna try explain why cuz it shud be obvious
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Unread 30 Jan 2007, 20:08   #105
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Re: Ticks stop - rollback etc

Didn't we agree on the tick stop and game lockdown precisely BECAUSE it allowed you not to have to recall any fleets?

This thread here discussed the unfairness of not recalling fleets when the game went down UNLESS you lock people out of the game so they can't send defence.

If you're going to go ahead and recall outstanding fleets anyway, then why bother to lock the game up?
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Unread 30 Jan 2007, 20:18   #106
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Re: Ticks stop - rollback etc

Quote:
Originally Posted by Furyous
Didn't we agree on the tick stop and game lockdown precisely BECAUSE it allowed you not to have to recall any fleets?

This thread here discussed the unfairness of not recalling fleets when the game went down UNLESS you lock people out of the game so they can't send defence.

If you're going to go ahead and recall outstanding fleets anyway, then why bother to lock the game up?

Probably becuase of exiles? Not sure on that one either.
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Unread 30 Jan 2007, 20:19   #107
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Re: Ticks stop - rollback etc

I agree with almi...

Ppl who have landed will get a big advantage since they get there fleets home right away and can launch a new attack... its like giveing then free roids and attack xp...

tick stop, downtime, rollback.. all good

Recalling all fleets... WTF? u might wanna think twice, cause every single player getting ****ed by this, which is like 90% of PA is quiet mad...

Maybe u would think twice if 90% of the players just walked out on the game today...
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Unread 30 Jan 2007, 20:23   #108
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Re: Ticks stop - rollback etc

Quote:
Originally Posted by myk
Okay, let me put this in context.

Our Downtime Procedure was placed upon the Portal 8 weeks ago after discussions which Chef has already commented upon. The community as a whole has had 8 weeks to comment on the Downtime Procedure, however we have received nothing against it until now, when it becomes convenient.

The main problem we encountered last downtime was that we were inconsistent with our decisions, and there were calls for a procedure to be put in place.

The main issue here is the recall of fleets, we are following the downtime procedure that has been in place now for 2 months, as Chef has said, this decision will not be overturned.

i did say the pulling of fleets is just as unfair as not pulling and the 1 hour open on a set time is crap for people not beeing in that time zone or working at that time the game should be open atleast for 12 hours before tick restart
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Unread 30 Jan 2007, 20:24   #109
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Re: Ticks stop - rollback etc

The only argument I see here FOR fleets being recalled is the fact that some people will have extra time to gather def. The only way that is applicable is if their eta is somewhere around 5-10. That gives Atleast 5 hours to login ,10 at most. You're saying thats the situation the MAJORITY of PA players are in? I think the MAJORITY are eta 1-2-3 from their target and are getting royally screwed over from their roids, while the others are getting an unfair advantage, and this early in the round it is a MONUMENTAL difference.

Obviously the opinion of the MAJORITY of players doesn't mater. Also if I'm going to be treated unfairly I wont be back next round, making obvious my $ doesn't matter to you. I don't know what matters then other than the stubburness to stick to a procedure that maybe 5 HC had a part in putting together compared to the PA community who didnt have ANY say in this. It's rediculous and its beyond me to understand other than 'we have rules..gotta stick by em'
I'm glad that wasn't the opinion during civil rights movements.
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Unread 30 Jan 2007, 20:41   #110
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Re: Ticks stop - rollback etc

This is how things played out from my point of view.

During the last downtime the community was very vocal on the PA team not having a consitant stance on the downtime. The reason for this loose flexable procedures was so that Things could be changed and adapted as we saw fit.

This previous stance seemed unacceptable to you (not all but again a large vocal majority) so a set of guidlines was thrashed out so that players would know exactly what to expect if things happened. As per your request. Now that these guidlines do not suit you all. You are claiming that we should be more flexable and allow for different scenarios.

Im sorry but you cannot have it both ways. We annonced these guidlines after listening to the community (omg it does happen!) and now they dont suit you all. It is impossible to please everyone. With these guidlines it is felt that they would have the leaste impact on the game, of all possible scenarios. Now in hindsight it appears that they should probebly be changed and im sure they will be. But we cannot change them now. The guidlines were annonced far in advance so that people would know exactly what to expect after X amount of downtime.

Edit: I was not a member of the PAteam when the guidlines where made. And i agree that they should be changed. But i support the desicion to not change them now after the incident has happened. People need to know in advance what to expect
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Unread 30 Jan 2007, 20:45   #111
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Re: Ticks stop - rollback etc

But where is the logic in the fact that your recalling all fleets and letting some people get roids and a huge advantage and others going to have nothing.
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Unread 30 Jan 2007, 20:45   #112
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Re: Ticks stop - rollback etc

Quote:
Originally Posted by Squishy
With these guidlines it is felt that they would have the leaste impact on the game, of all possible scenarios.
the course of action to have least effect, would be to roll back, and continue... fleets recalling has BIG effect :P
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Unread 30 Jan 2007, 20:45   #113
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Re: Ticks stop - rollback etc

Quote:
Originally Posted by wielklem
i did say the pulling of fleets is just as unfair as not pulling and the 1 hour open on a set time is crap for people not beeing in that time zone or working at that time the game should be open atleast for 12 hours before tick restart
So, not pulling fleets, 12 hours before restart is what you are saying? You're making very little sense. Pulling fleets and 12 hour open game is useless, but not pulling fleets and 12 hours open would, at the moment, then screw those who are floating on ETA5+ and have planned their ticks there.

So it's really from sh'te to sh'te.
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Unread 30 Jan 2007, 20:46   #114
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Re: Ticks stop - rollback etc

in fact in this case, as its so early in the round, the fleet recalling has a MASSIVE effect on the game
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Unread 30 Jan 2007, 20:47   #115
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Re: Ticks stop - rollback etc

Quote:
Originally Posted by Squishy
This is how things played out from my point of view.

During the last downtime the community was very vocal on the PA team not having a consitant stance on the downtime. The reason for this loose flexable procedures was so that Things could be changed and adapted as we saw fit.

This previous stance seemed unacceptable to you (not all but again a large vocal majority) so a set of guidlines was thrashed out so that players would know exactly what to expect if things happened. As per your request. Now that these guidlines do not suit you all. You are claiming that we should be more flexable and allow for different scenarios.

Im sorry but you cannot have it both ways. We annonced these guidlines after listening to the community (omg it does happen!) and now they dont suit you all. It is impossible to please everyone. With these guidlines it is felt that they would have the leaste impact on the game, of all possible scenarios. Now in hindsight it appears that they should probebly be changed and im sure they will be. But we cannot change them now. The guidlines were annonced far in advance so that people would know exactly what to expect after X amount of downtime.

i know i will pull all the hate of those 90% of PA community [and for those of you, i do not have ANY ships yet. so recall only affects me indirectly. (nor do i have ANY incoming at this time either)] but i agree with squi...

theree are rules. you made them. now you got ****ed over by decisions you made (helped make at least. If u didnt, someone did it on your behalf). Just because when rule applies in the way that would make it unfair, is not a reason to avoid implementing it alltogether. Only judges can avoid rules (they call them "laws") And thank god we dont have any PA Judges yet...
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Unread 30 Jan 2007, 20:48   #116
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Re: Ticks stop - rollback etc

[quote=Squishy]


But we cannot change them now. QUOTE]

Yes, because the wrath of Zeus would befall you!
Seriously thats how much sense your making, can't means impossible, unable. It is certainly possible, and you are certainly able! I don't know who asked for consistant ruling on these, I was not one of them. Even if it was asked for, I guarantee you didn't ask them what they wanted this ruling to be. You asked a few HC, how do you figure that is the wantings of the majority?

sigh
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Unread 30 Jan 2007, 20:55   #117
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Re: Ticks stop - rollback etc

When you have a set of rules in place detailing how certain situations will be handeled. You should not then back out on them when these ruilings become unpopular. You should stick with what you said you would do at the start of the round. And allow for discusion and debate on how things should be changed. Should the procedure be changed ?

Yes, i think this is pretty much the concencus throughout the community but to change it now would punish many people who now expect fleets to be recalled as per the downtime guidlines.
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Unread 30 Jan 2007, 20:58   #118
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Re: Ticks stop - rollback etc

Quote:
Originally Posted by Squishy
When you have a set of rules in place detailing how certain situations will be handeled. You should not then back out on them when these ruilings become unpopular.
No but you SHOULD when rulings become unfair. That is the reason they are unpopular. This can very well damn an alliance or damn many planets.
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Unread 30 Jan 2007, 21:00   #119
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Re: Ticks stop - rollback etc

If there is a rollback, I fail to see the logic. The ticks became screwed from circa 13:00 GMT, not 01:00 GMT. Why roll it back to tick 72, waste two nights of the round and then put a large proportion of those at risk of being roided.

A prime example is myself.

I attacked in cluster last night at 3am.

I prepared my round for the DE rush, and a nice little incluster attack.

Everything was okey kokey.

I launch, im eta 1 and the game gets pulled offline.

Now what implications does that have on me?

Well firstly it means that to launch the attack I made at 3am, I would be looking at 5pm in the afternoon, another 14 ticks will occur until the 3-5am slot I like to attack in (for those thinking attack earlier, well no, I don't want defence). 14 ticks makes a myriad of difference. Certain races can build ships to stop the ships i'll send at them, other planets will have a -1 built so can defend against me, the target planet gets 14 more ticks of resources so can easily build against me.

What do I get?

I most certainly don't get the roids that I was going to land on, but less so about that.

What I am concerned about is the fact that now in cluster a certain galaxy will know my intention (i.e. to attack them) obviously I can't do that now as they will be aware of this, but thats a galaxy who I can't attack and who may attack me for daring to hit them.

Sure I am selfish.

But the downtime didn't affect the game at all. Just run business as usual from 13:00, people will know and we can play as though nothing happened.


To summarise

If the ticks didn't go down at 13:00 people wouldn't be saying "rollback" because they lost roids/ships, or they were disadvantaged. In fact it wouldn't cross their mind. Where as this will have a negative, knock on effect on planets like mine. Don't be stupid, fix the bug and continue as normal.

Sure I am shooting this off as my opinion but that's how I feel.
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Unread 30 Jan 2007, 21:03   #120
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Re: Ticks stop - rollback etc

P.S. New thought. PATeam (so I heard) caved into a bunch of whiners in #planetarion asking for this decision. To ask them to now cave into a bunch of whiners on the forums asking for a different decision is pretty unfair.
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Unread 30 Jan 2007, 21:05   #121
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Re: Ticks stop - rollback etc

As was said, Squishy, this is a quite special situation... special in the sense that these are the first attacks which influence the game heavily... nobody would have thought and expected the combat engine would be erroneous so early ingame...

also was said that in other situations the rules are to be applied as they are...
in my opinion it means u have here an exception at hand which emphasizes the rule...

So, by acknowledging this special situation and fitting the measurements taken to the situation, any later decision according to the rules as they are will be enforced and accepted..

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Unread 30 Jan 2007, 21:05   #122
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Re: Ticks stop - rollback etc

Quite simply do a poll on the forums

Close the topic. No debate. Rollback, yes or no. Then allow the voting to commence. Whoever is the winner by midday, then the pateam abides by that decision.

:edit: Advertise the poll on the portal and shit, so people know.
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Unread 30 Jan 2007, 21:11   #123
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Re: Ticks stop - rollback etc

Quote:
Originally Posted by pig
Quite simply do a poll on the forums

Close the topic. No debate. Rollback, yes or no. Then allow the voting to commence. Whoever is the winner by midday, then the pateam abides by that decision.

:edit: Advertise the poll on the portal and shit, so people know.
bad idea, no poll required the decision in regard to the way this has been dealt with is in line with the previously published guidlines.

If you dont like the guidelines, then lobby to get them changed but that should not affect this decision, otherwise everytime an unforseen event happens we will see the forums getting spammed with similar threads demanding that this or that be changed to suit the loudest voices.

PA team cannot act in any other way than that which was previously published, if they do then there is absolutely no point having any rules at all.
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Unread 30 Jan 2007, 21:15   #124
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Re: Ticks stop - rollback etc

it shudnt be a poll on rollback yes or no


it should be a poll on "Recall fleets yes or no" isnt everyone agreed a rollback is needed?
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Unread 30 Jan 2007, 21:16   #125
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Re: Ticks stop - rollback etc

Theres absolutely no need to recall the fleets. thats my fecking problem with this rubbish.
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Unread 30 Jan 2007, 21:18   #126
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Re: Ticks stop - rollback etc

There will not be a poll about the recalling of fleets in this instance. PATeam will of course take into consideration all of the complaints that have been made today regarding our following of the procedure which, we put in place due to public demand for such a procedure to be drawn up. With this in mind we will look at ways that the procedure can be improved so that this level of complaints can be avoided in future.
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Unread 30 Jan 2007, 21:20   #127
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Re: Ticks stop - rollback etc

This is why the action was taken, there is no excuse for not knowing it:-

Quote:
Originally Posted by Portal
Posted by: Chef
Posted on: Wednesday 13th December 2006 at 23:15


After the incidents of downtime which occurred during round 19 the PATeam has drawn up the following downtime procedure. This procedure will be available permenantly on the portal.

Downtime Procedure

Scheduled downtimes:
The community will be informed in advance via the portal, forums, topic of #planetarion and the MOTD. The game will be left as it is, no fleet recall, no donations, no rollbacks, etc. The game will restart at the same time it was taken down. In the event of extended downtime the round may be extended at the discretion of PATeam.

Unscheduled downtimes:
If only one tick or less is affected there will be no rollback.

If the game is down for two ticks or more there will be a rollback to the last accessible tick, and there will be a full fleet recall. Ticks will restart 24 hours after the time of the last good backup to ensure all players in all timezones have a fair chance. The game will be inaccessible during the 24 hour period.

Announcement of Unscheduled Downtime:
In the event of any unscheduled downtime affecting two ticks or more a member of PATeam will make an announcement detailing when the game will restart and if possible explain the reasons for the downtime.

NetGamers Downtime:
In the event of an extended period of downtime with the NetGamers service the PATeam may take the decision to halt ticks and close the game until NetGamers comes back online.
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Unread 30 Jan 2007, 21:23   #128
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Re: Ticks stop - rollback etc

Utter madness, can't be team use common sense instead of using rules, which while can serve a purpose need to be flexible in approach.

I wish the community as a whole were consulted instead of a few special ones in a channel who don't play the game.
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Unread 30 Jan 2007, 21:27   #129
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Re: Ticks stop - rollback etc

[20:24] <ReligFree> why not reset it to before any attacks were sent then
[20:24] <ReligFree> would get rid of any unfair advantage

Id be annoyed that its broke and stuff, but would clearly be able to understand how it could be considered fair and balanced as would just about anyone.
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Unread 30 Jan 2007, 21:27   #130
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Re: Ticks stop - rollback etc

Quote:
Originally Posted by pig
Utter madness, can't be team use common sense instead of using rules, which while can serve a purpose need to be flexible in approach.

I wish the community as a whole were consulted instead of a few special ones in a channel who don't play the game.

I dont dissagree, but the problem is that this needs to be discussed and agreed prior to an event, not during it or in contradiction to the previously agreed guidlines.
(whether you agreed or not is irrelevant, the fact that everyone was mute on the issue does mean they consent)

Yes this has caused an issue and yes it needs a solution, but that agreement and soloution needs to be applied under the cold light of day and under calm circumstances not in the heat of a discussion when the event is current.

Hastily made laws (rules) are often bad laws.
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Unread 30 Jan 2007, 21:29   #131
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Re: Ticks stop - rollback etc

Ok the most FAIR UNBIASED I can be. should fix problem for ALL SIDES

Some ppl have THREE HUNDRED ROIDS
thats because they got attack off when no one else did, u tter bs and everyone agrees when we say that is unfair.

ROLL BACK TO PT 72
ROLL BACK TO PT 72

FAIR FOR EVERYONE. No need to recall fleets its just out of prot!

FAIR IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN FOLLOWING 'RULES' what if you called them guidelines? thats what they should be! The only reason you wouldn't do this is to prove ' we can make a decision and stick to it' well this is not the time.

ROLL BACK TO PT 72
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Unread 30 Jan 2007, 21:37   #132
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Re: Ticks stop - rollback etc

Ok this could prove quite lengthy but i will try and cover the basics...

Quote:
Originally Posted by pig
Utter madness, can't be team use common sense instead of using rules, which while can serve a purpose need to be flexible in approach.

I wish the community as a whole were consulted instead of a few special ones in a channel who don't play the game.
Ok firstly, the reason we have this procedure is because the community forced us to make a procedure of this nature. Secondly, We took time consulting with the alliance reps (who are supposed to represent all their members), the PA reps (support team, mh, news team, ops team and moderators) via a discussion thread that was on their forum. As well as this we took views from the umpteen threads that were on this very forum on the subject.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ReligFree
[20:24] <ReligFree> why not reset it to before any attacks were sent then
[20:24] <ReligFree> would get rid of any unfair advantage

Id be annoyed that its broke and stuff, but would clearly be able to understand how it could be considered fair and balanced as would just about anyone.
In this situation we have taken the decision to adhere to the procedures that have been drawn up. If we had written a procedure to cover all eventualities (including downtime this early in the round) the procedure could be limitless in size and simply isnt practical. As i said in a previous post we will review this procedure to improve upon it.
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Unread 30 Jan 2007, 21:43   #133
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Re: Ticks stop - rollback etc

Quote:
Originally Posted by Willzzz
i would rather see PA Team stick to somthing which was agreed upon last round then see another change becuase some of the community are bullying them into that decision.
pretty much says it all
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Unread 30 Jan 2007, 22:26   #134
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Re: Ticks stop - rollback etc

I'm not playing (only as a scanner but that doesn't count as playing for me) but still i'll pos my thoughts on the situation:
First of all, the procedure put in place for downtimes was needed imo, in the past you could simply guess what was gonna happen when ticks went down, they could go back up next hour or next day, so a standard procedure is good.
But does that mean the procedure itself can't be a little flexible?
Especially at this early stage of the game.
I mean, alot of people launched attacks and maybe 30-40 ppl landed, doesn't that seem to be just a liiiiiitle bit unfair to all the other people that launched attacks and now see themselves fallin behind alot because of the procedure?

Second thought i'd like to mention: this early in the game after such a long downtime and the game allready goes down? If this happens at tick 4-500 or so a recall might not be bad, but it wasn't even tick 100 and the game allready goes down.
Doesn't quite send a message to players (new & old) that you guys actually know what you're doing.
And it's quite obvious now (mention by alot of people) that a recall is unfair to most of the players, you hide behind your procedure instead of working for a solution that doesn't give some people a big unfair advantage while the rest is treated unfairly.

The only reasons mentioned here to enforce a recall is that people get the chance to find defence for an extra 24 hours and that you feel the need to show you actually have a spine.

Do with it what you want, but keep in mind the negative publicity this is sending out if you stick to your rules.
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Unread 30 Jan 2007, 23:18   #135
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Re: Ticks stop - rollback etc

Quote:
Originally Posted by Squishy
Edit: I was not a member of the PAteam when the guidlines where made. And i agree that they should be changed. But i support the desicion to not change them now after the incident has happened. People need to know in advance what to expect
Just like when you introduced the support planets rule mid-round?
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Unread 30 Jan 2007, 23:27   #136
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Re: Ticks stop - rollback etc

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gio2k
Just like when you introduced the support planets rule mid-round?
differant scenario tbh as that was covered by the eula which says it can change game rules as need iirc
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Unread 30 Jan 2007, 23:32   #137
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Re: Ticks stop - rollback etc

I made the post because the posts up to this point appeared to be say that people with incs wanted the fleets recalled. I was just showing that was not the case. I really don't care how the problem is resolved so long as it is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wakey
You are not the only person playing this game,
I am aware that I am not the only person playing the game, if I was I wouldn't have had incs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wakey
they procedure has to be one that minimises losses on a whole not on individual basis and this is what this does.
No the procedure is not there to minimise losses on a whole, it is there to ensure consistency when dealing with problems that require the game to be stopped.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wakey
I mean seriously would you be happy if you hadnt been able to build enough ships to defend had sent your ships away but the rollback would mean your ships were at base and for whatever reason you couldn't be on when the game reopens to send away. Somehow I don't think you would especially if it was later on when you had more ships than you will do now.
These are very minor problems, the game has had much worse in the past, and these don't affect my happiness in the slightest, one way or the other.
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Unread 30 Jan 2007, 23:33   #138
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Re: Ticks stop - rollback etc

Quote:
Originally Posted by Veedeejem!
I'm not playing (only as a scanner but that doesn't count as playing for me) but still i'll pos my thoughts on the situation:
First of all, the procedure put in place for downtimes was needed imo, in the past you could simply guess what was gonna happen when ticks went down, they could go back up next hour or next day, so a standard procedure is good.
But does that mean the procedure itself can't be a little flexible?

Thats not what procedures are for.

PA Team did right imho to stick with those rules they had put upon themselves.

They should consider reworking and changing those "downtime-procedures" and addept them for the future.
That would give them the possibility to keep their face.

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Unread 30 Jan 2007, 23:43   #139
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Re: Ticks stop - rollback etc

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lockhead
Thats not what procedures are for.

PA Team did right imho to stick with those rules they had put upon themselves.

They should consider reworking and changing those "downtime-procedures" and addept them for the future.
That would give them the possibility to keep their face.

Lock.
No they didn't and no it wouldn't. Because next time the servers go down it will once again be a situation which they have not yet considered with their so-far created policies. A policy will never ever be able to take into consideration what would be good and what would be bad for the game, except on fairly few occassions. I totally fail to understand why they won't simply throw in a backup (which would be equal for everyone) if they actually go down for 24 hours instead of granting a few people the right to succeed with their early launch strategy and the rest to utterly fail in their quest for glory.

edit as reply to thrud
The consistency in their decisions when these kind of issues arise should be applying brainforce and common sense. "What will happen if we recall all fleets now?", "What will happen if we do not?" and a whole lot of other relevant questions which PA Team could answer should be considered in their evaluation of consequences. PA Team has enough tools to actually see what their administrative actions will cause in the game. But yes, I know, it would actually require them to think themselves and there is absolutely nobody in PA Team who is nowadays able to do that. All they can do is talking out of their arse to look as good as possible while watching the playerbase shrinking continously.</rant>
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Unread 31 Jan 2007, 00:12   #140
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Re: Ticks stop - rollback etc

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stylez1877
The only argument I see here FOR fleets being recalled is the fact that some people will have extra time to gather def. .
Well then your blind as I've given more than the extra time for defence myself. For the sake of those who seem unable to read I'll post some of the reasons a recall is needed again
  1. More time for defence, as much as 24 hours to find people to be online if the person themselves or their alliance or galaxy knew about it
  2. Defence that was sent could now be screwed up if it was sent after the tick it rolls back to. Leaving other defence potentially walking into a suicide
  3. Anyone who sent their ships away after the tick we roll back to as they were being attacked now run the risk of having their fleet destroyed if they cant get onto pa when it reopens
  4. The procedure was decided in advance and published. Any procedure is going to annoy one group of players and it doesn't matter if its tick 72 or tick 1500 the procedure has to be stuck to.

Theres only really two options, you recall fleets and annoy people attacking as they lose roid gains or you don't recall ships and annoy people by losing them their fleets. The lesser of these evils is recalling ships (After all losing your fleet isn't just a drop in score, it stops yo defending yourself, your galaxy/cluster/alliance and prevents you attacking)

If you can come up with a third option which doesn't stop the roid gains but doesn't put peoples fleets at risk through no fault of their own then post it and maybe PATeam will use that next round but as it is thats the procedure thats been decided causes the least damage overall and thats what we have to work with. This time maybe its been bad for you but next time it could save you[
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Unread 31 Jan 2007, 00:16   #141
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Re: Ticks stop - rollback etc

Dude, wakey, with a 24 hour break you can do something against losing your fleet. And apart from that, what do you think how many roiding fleets can be stopped right at this time of a round?

And what exactly do you recommend can be done immediately against those which have just landed their attacks and can right now send out their fleets again after the recall? The resource gain is significant at this point in time.
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Unread 31 Jan 2007, 00:32   #142
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Re: Ticks stop - rollback etc

Quote:
Originally Posted by pig
To summarise

If the ticks didn't go down at 13:00 people wouldn't be saying "rollback" because they lost roids/ships, or they were disadvantaged. In fact it wouldn't cross their mind. Where as this will have a negative, knock on effect on planets like mine. Don't be stupid, fix the bug and continue as normal.

Sure I am shooting this off as my opinion but that's how I feel.
I'm assuming there's a reason that a roll-back was needed and the game wasn't just stopped, the bug sorted and continued later but even then there would be issues, less of them maybe but still issues.
  1. While its fixed its going to put the next tick at least an hour behind if not more. That screws people plans up. With people having a real life certain actions are often arranged to fit into rl commitments so surely you have to put a 24 hour delay on restart to limit the impact
  2. Any delay means some attacks are going to get defended as there's more time for defence to be arranged even if the game inaccessible. So now instead of those below eta 5 whining you have those above eta 5 whining as now there's even more players who have gained an extra attack over them

So while it may be a slightly better way of doing it (if there has been no other issue which means a rollback is needed) its hardly ideal either and will still upset some people
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Unread 31 Jan 2007, 00:50   #143
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Re: Ticks stop - rollback etc

Quote:
Originally Posted by wakey
Except your solution doesnt minimise unfairness and screws over alot of people in potentially alot more damaging ways than than losing out on a single attack. It helps the people who have nothing to lose and only something to gain
list them.

without including 'ifs'

such as 'if' they know what their fleet is, or 'if' they have defence tools or 'if' they can be online between 12 and 1pm to do anything.
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Unread 31 Jan 2007, 00:54   #144
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Re: Ticks stop - rollback etc

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heartless
Dude, wakey, with a 24 hour break you can do something against losing your fleet. And apart from that, what do you think how many roiding fleets can be stopped right at this time of a round?

And what exactly do you recommend can be done immediately against those which have just landed their attacks and can right now send out their fleets again after the recall? The resource gain is significant at this point in time.
If the game was accessible for those 24 hours maybe you could, as it is you have a tiny window to potentially save your fleet.

Lets say I had incoming (I didn't for the record) and on tick 89 with 1 tick remaining I sent them away to keep them safe. Now when the rollback happens at noon tomorrow my ships are back at base and my incomings 1 tick away. Now I have a real life and due to that have a meeting/interview/lecture/appointment/event to attend and wont be near a PC for the hours upto and after noon so now cant send my fleet away and they are then destroyed. And before you say "that could happen on a day without a rollback" yes it could but the chances are the you know the commitments you have and account for them accordingly

As for your question about those who landed attacks getting their fleet backs, I've mentioned this is the past but when fleets are recalled ive said it should only be outward bound fleets but thats not for me to decided and is really a different discussion


Oh and I haven't said the score gain is insignificant, just less significant than losing people's fleets for them (The attackers who get their fleets recalled lose out on 1 attack, without fleet recalls those who subsequently lose their fleets miss out on atleast 1 if not more attacks as they recover their attack fleet)
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Unread 31 Jan 2007, 00:59   #145
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Re: Ticks stop - rollback etc

An alternative (but complicated) solution is a complete shuffle of buddypacks/randoms and a return to tick 72, allowing planets to change their planet/rulers again.

This is the worst time for the game to go down, as anyone gaining an advantage does it by having double score. These are mainly people who chose races with low class pods, as opposed to those who didn't. Either the game is balanced, or it isn't.
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Unread 31 Jan 2007, 01:05   #146
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Re: Ticks stop - rollback etc

2 mistakes in 1 decision, you could hardly do worse.

1. if you want to rollback you have to do it to Tick 72, so as not to give an advantage to anyone. It is the only way to be fair, I think it's important so early in the game. People defending during these early ticks didn't get their XP...another reason, if needed, to rollback to PT72

2. recalling fleets just add to the unbalanced situation. People who launched early will have roids + xp and they will have their fleet home right away to attack again !

You have the power to make things right, you should use it rather than hidding behind procedures to justify a wrong decision.
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Unread 31 Jan 2007, 01:19   #147
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Re: Ticks stop - rollback etc

Damn this game has really gone to shit. I guess jolts plan is to keep milking a few bucks from this crap text-based game, until people finally realize that they are being used.
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Unread 31 Jan 2007, 01:20   #148
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Re: Ticks stop - rollback etc

Quote:
Originally Posted by lokken
list them.

without including 'ifs'

such as 'if' they know what their fleet is, or 'if' they have defence tools or 'if' they can be online between 12 and 1pm to do anything.
Yes Lokken because we live in a world where every things clear cut. Everythings a case of if's. You state for example in your post that doing it your way No one loses out but that very statement is based on the reverse of the very same if's I have used. The only difference is mine are rooted alot more in a real situation than yours.

  1. No-one will lose out IF the planet doesn't know the fleets incoming
  2. No-one will lose out IF the galaxy hasn't seen and recorded the incoming
  3. No-one will lose out IF the incoming hasnt been reported to the alliance
  4. No-one will lose out IF the alliance doesnt have defence tools to arrange
  5. No-one will lose out IF everyone can be on for that hour before ticks start

#4 especially is a problem for your idea because lets be honest here 90% of alliances have external tools, its only the handful that use the ingame features exclusivly who dont
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Unread 31 Jan 2007, 01:33   #149
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Re: Ticks stop - rollback etc

Quote:
Originally Posted by wakey
Yes Lokken because we live in a world where every things clear cut. Everythings a case of if's. You state for example in your post that doing it your way No one loses out but that very statement is based on the reverse of the very same if's I have used. The only difference is mine are rooted alot more in a real situation than yours.

  1. No-one will lose out IF the planet doesn't know the fleets incoming
  2. No-one will lose out IF the galaxy hasn't seen and recorded the incoming
  3. No-one will lose out IF the incoming hasnt been reported to the alliance
  4. No-one will lose out IF the alliance doesnt have defence tools to arrange
  5. No-one will lose out IF everyone can be on for that hour before ticks start

#4 especially is a problem for your idea because lets be honest here 90% of alliances have external tools, its only the handful that use the ingame features exclusivly who dont
No I conceded that and said the minimum number of people lose out if they do it my way. On the other hand people go on about "it being procedure" while refusing point blank to discuss the merits of the method being used, and just want to deliberate in issues of unfairness so minor, they are trivial compared to what is currently proposed.

An extra suggestion is to recall all fleets that are ETA 5 and above to their target if we REALLY want, so they don't lose out from the remote possibility of not getting extra defence.
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Unread 31 Jan 2007, 01:41   #150
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Re: Ticks stop - rollback etc

I landed my attack. Got roids. Why all the fuss?
( my second attack eta 5 got recalled though *whine* )

But, even though I understand the whining here.. its better to know what happens in such situations, than for it to be random ( which it has in the past ) IMO we need simple guidelines for a situation like this. It might not be the best one atm..but atleast no one can whine ( ofc u can, just kidding), as this is what they agreed to when signing up.
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