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8 Jan 2009, 17:57
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#151
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This Space for Rent
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 583
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Re: r30 ship stats
there are already a lot of crash through and equal init combat combinations already. the calcs will almost always favour the attacker imo, unless you're attacking some retard that doesn't know how to run his fleet - even so the defense probably wouldn't make even with salvage.
__________________
When in doubt, blame Ascendancy.
#pastats
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9 Jan 2009, 10:15
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#152
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-||-
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Trondheim, Norway
Posts: 92
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Re: r30 ship stats
looks interresting with 3 pod types
__________________
-Death walks in many ways, IM only one of em-
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9 Jan 2009, 12:15
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#153
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LDK
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Norway
Posts: 2,220
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Re: r30 ship stats
xan looks too good to me.
the fi is pretty imba this round
__________________
[Omen]
Quote:
Originally posted by Newt
I would give me right testicle to be in a gal with you wishmaster!!! wonder if thatd be enough to bribe spinner with hmmmm
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<JC`> i sent him a msg saying Wishmaster 0wns, so he recalled
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9 Jan 2009, 16:01
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#154
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Belgium
Posts: 673
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Re: r30 ship stats
i will just have to steal some xan fi then
__________________
At some point the world shits on everybody. Pretending it ain't shit makes you an idiot, not an optimist."
If life hands you lemons, drink more tequila
After the game is over the king and the pawn end up in the same box
HA - asc -rdm-asc-VR- #ODDR - APP
Finally retired
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9 Jan 2009, 17:25
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#155
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Banned
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Further to the right
Posts: 19,441
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Re: r30 ship stats
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wishmaster
xan looks too good to me.
the fi is pretty imba this round
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What do you feel is the best tactic and how would it best be brought more into line with the rest of the stats?
__________________
Some might ask what good is life without purpose but I'm anticipating a good lunch.
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10 Jan 2009, 17:36
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#156
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Denial
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 41
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Re: r30 ship stats
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
What do you feel is the best tactic and how would it best be brought more into line with the rest of the stats?
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Looking at it the only reason i think that fi looks like the best fleet is as 4 out of 5 races has a good anti fr/de ship at fi/co class, making it very difficult for someone to play this pod class without getting mass deffed everytime.
Im not sure what you can do about this now, but to me as i hate playing cr/bs for the two ticks of def, it makes fi/co the only option or playing a very hard round as fr/de.
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10 Jan 2009, 17:48
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#157
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Paso Leaute
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 919
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Re: r30 ship stats
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rio
i hate playing cr/bs for the two ticks of def, it makes fi/co the only option or playing a very hard round as fr/de.
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fr/de also has 2 ticks of def... but generally i agree that the fr/de is the weakest of the 3 meta-classes under these stats, their attack fleets are always slightly weaker because unlike the other 2 they can be hit by all 3 so their attack fleet has to protect itself in all zones (admittedly Cr/Bs can only be ingal) this is increased by on average poor init vs the cr/bs that shoot at fr/de, and not great init vs the fi/co shooting up either.
Conversely they sometimes concentrate all their ships in 1 meta class and thus gain a sort of bonus in defence.
__________________
An optimist may see a light where there is none, but why must the pessimist always run to blow it out?
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10 Jan 2009, 17:53
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#158
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Noruega
Posts: 2,999
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Re: r30 ship stats
I agree on fr\de being the weakest class and i guess there will mainly be fi\co and cr\bs roidingfleets(aswell as deffleets?) this round
__________________
"Cry havoc and let slip the dogs of War"
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11 Jan 2009, 00:38
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#159
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Fook Yu
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Looked pal
Posts: 383
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Re: r30 ship stats
Patrick says (00:37):
how about a Co which targets Fi (either as t1 or t2) with init 4/5? maybe the harpy? (or switching the Harpy to init 4 right away, but i don't think JBG would approve of that )
__________________
HEROES - It's not cheating if you admit to it
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11 Jan 2009, 00:56
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#160
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Noruega
Posts: 2,999
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Re: r30 ship stats
Xan FI really arent THAT great to be honest, you have to build three types of fi\co and theyre really quite shit versus DE it would seem.
If Xan is so good just go them?
__________________
"Cry havoc and let slip the dogs of War"
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11 Jan 2009, 01:03
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#161
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Holland is GVD het HARDST
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Holland!
Posts: 39
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Re: r30 ship stats
Quote:
Originally Posted by isildurx
Xan FI really arent THAT great to be honest, you have to build three types of fi\co and theyre really quite shit versus DE it would seem.
If Xan is so good just go them?
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now you give them ideas i wanted to go xan and pwn them
__________________
WHEN THEY THINK WE ARE HISTORY, WE WILL SHOW THEM THE FUTURE -=i am youre alpha and youre omega=-
WP SiN eXilition 1up CT SubH Ascendancy Apprime
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11 Jan 2009, 11:18
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#162
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Noruega
Posts: 2,999
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Re: r30 ship stats
Yeah thats the whole thing. I think people who whine about xan fi being to strong now is people who refuse to go xan and just try to make xan fi as shit as possible in order to make 'their own' race stronger.
__________________
"Cry havoc and let slip the dogs of War"
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11 Jan 2009, 12:44
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#163
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Dictator
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 634
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Re: r30 ship stats
As i said before, i dont think xan fi is all that. Take cath for instance.. xan have to build either to stop their de or to stop their fi.. put the same value fleets together vs xan and you only stand a chance to stop one.
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11 Jan 2009, 12:45
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#164
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;D!
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,810
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Re: r30 ship stats
Xan FI is probably the strongest fleet on paper.
How well it performs in reality depends on what everyone else builds. If there is a good mix of FI, CO and FR/DE class anti FI in the uni then xands shouldn't be overpowered because they'd have to invest so heavily in all 3 of their FI/CO ships. If there's very few harpy/interceptor, then I suspect xands will be able to concentrate on their vsh/pulsar fleet and will do much better.
In that case, CR terrans should have a better round.
__________________
[ND]
Kicked from Ascendancy
Proud to have been a Dark Lord Rising.
Last edited by Gate; 11 Jan 2009 at 17:09.
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11 Jan 2009, 13:32
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#165
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Noruega
Posts: 2,999
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Re: r30 ship stats
The fact that xans have to build one more fi than usual does make quite a big difference and yes perhaps xan fi is very strong on paper but the fact is that they are going to struggle vs DE and they cannot invest too much into fi\co because then they are going to be completely open to cr\bs inc.
__________________
"Cry havoc and let slip the dogs of War"
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11 Jan 2009, 16:04
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#166
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Retired
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Back Porch Bar
Posts: 2,593
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Re: r30 ship stats
Quote:
Originally Posted by isildurx
The fact that xans have to build one more fi than usual does make quite a big difference
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They have two fighters, as they did last round...?
Quote:
and yes perhaps xan fi is very strong on paper but the fact is that they are going to struggle vs DE
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There's only two DE roidfleets though, and one is EMP (zero loss defense + salvage ftw) so I really don't see a struggle...
Quote:
and they cannot invest too much into fi\co because then they are going to be completely open to cr\bs inc.
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Cross defend
__________________
I'd rather be fishing.
Utterly useless since r3
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11 Jan 2009, 17:06
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#167
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Noruega
Posts: 2,999
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Re: r30 ship stats
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cochese
They have two fighters, as they did last round...?
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Yeah fi\co one more small ship than last round nehow
Im not saying xan isnt good, I just dont think that its too good and needs to be nerfed any further.
Maybe beta(lol) will prove me wrong, but I do not think that will be the case.
__________________
"Cry havoc and let slip the dogs of War"
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11 Jan 2009, 17:13
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#168
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Retired
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Back Porch Bar
Posts: 2,593
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Re: r30 ship stats
Ah yeah, I agree there. They're definitely not "too good" or need any nerfing.
Lol beta lol
__________________
I'd rather be fishing.
Utterly useless since r3
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11 Jan 2009, 17:53
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#169
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 499
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Re: r30 ship stats
Lets all play cath and have a nice, friendly, 0 loss round, deal?
__________________
Founder and HC of [Denial] and [Evolution]
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11 Jan 2009, 17:55
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#170
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Retired
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Back Porch Bar
Posts: 2,593
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Re: r30 ship stats
Sounds wonderful and cuddly.
__________________
I'd rather be fishing.
Utterly useless since r3
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13 Jan 2009, 22:57
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#171
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Reject False Icons
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Your Hotel.... Fee:$999
Posts: 896
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Re: r30 ship stats
so whats the latest on stats now the private beta has started?
__________________
The Illuminati- NoS
[]LCH[]- dc
-=Destiny=-
Wolfpack - Dc
xVx - DC
Apprime -_-
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13 Jan 2009, 23:16
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#172
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Banned
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Further to the right
Posts: 19,441
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Re: r30 ship stats
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rinoa
so whats the latest on stats now the private beta has started?
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There's a private beta on? Man let's hope nobody's going to base anything on something as retarded as that.
__________________
Some might ask what good is life without purpose but I'm anticipating a good lunch.
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13 Jan 2009, 23:48
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#173
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Tides of Fire
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 318
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Re: r30 ship stats
I don't really understand the idea behind having Xan BS, but other than that this rounds stats certainly show some new dynamics.
Although it might end up a FI heavy uni and just end in xan vs xan wars.
__________________
Quote:
"Hold the newsreader's nose squarely, waiter, or friendly milk will countermand my trousers."
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14 Jan 2009, 12:40
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#174
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;D!
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,810
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Re: r30 ship stats
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeyi
I don't really understand the idea behind having Xan BS, but other than that this rounds stats certainly show some new dynamics.
Although it might end up a FI heavy uni and just end in xan vs xan wars.
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Or an alliance with plentiful terrans and good anti FI def having a whale of a time.
__________________
[ND]
Kicked from Ascendancy
Proud to have been a Dark Lord Rising.
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14 Jan 2009, 12:46
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#175
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Noruega
Posts: 2,999
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Re: r30 ship stats
I think its going to be hard to have both to be honest
__________________
"Cry havoc and let slip the dogs of War"
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14 Jan 2009, 16:40
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#176
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LDK
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Norway
Posts: 2,220
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Re: r30 ship stats
While there are combos which can roid xans, the thing is that if u go for those races / combos u will just end up being fi/co waved to the ground, and be unable to build value.
How can anyone go ter cr and survive in this environment? will have to xp hoe and or defleech like crazy.
__________________
[Omen]
Quote:
Originally posted by Newt
I would give me right testicle to be in a gal with you wishmaster!!! wonder if thatd be enough to bribe spinner with hmmmm
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<JC`> i sent him a msg saying Wishmaster 0wns, so he recalled
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14 Jan 2009, 17:07
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#177
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Noruega
Posts: 2,999
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Re: r30 ship stats
Not like xan doesnt have a gaping anti cr\bs hole.
If there is alot of ters then xan is gonna struggle, if there is a lot of xans then ters are gonna struggle. Hopefully there will be some form of balance.
__________________
"Cry havoc and let slip the dogs of War"
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14 Jan 2009, 17:19
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#178
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LDK
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Norway
Posts: 2,220
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Re: r30 ship stats
how likely is that though?
I m guessing like 35-40% xans.
And its not just that..its that the ter anti fi/co is really utter useless, unless u go FR, and even then u will end up in a situation where u need ingal FR to cover u, or full cover pretty much from FI/CO.
__________________
[Omen]
Quote:
Originally posted by Newt
I would give me right testicle to be in a gal with you wishmaster!!! wonder if thatd be enough to bribe spinner with hmmmm
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<JC`> i sent him a msg saying Wishmaster 0wns, so he recalled
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14 Jan 2009, 17:29
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#179
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Noruega
Posts: 2,999
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Re: r30 ship stats
Yeah well JBG has said that cath\ter might be upgraded if the beta implies that they are underpowered.
If Terrans purely build CR and FI it means that they can invest alot of value in harps and this will make it hard for xans to roid them unless the xan pumps alot of res into phants.
Afterall harps can be used to fake CR aswell so having alot of them isnt necessarily that bad.
I do guess xans will have quite a bit more phants than the other two FIs though due to fr\de probably being the weakest megaclass.
__________________
"Cry havoc and let slip the dogs of War"
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14 Jan 2009, 17:30
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#180
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Noruega
Posts: 2,999
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Re: r30 ship stats
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wishmaster
how likely is that though?
I m guessing like 35-40% xans.
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Heh then its going to be a painful round for xan fi where alliances will rely on their xans to build phants as a defship and a huge amount of 0 loss deffleets flying around the uni.
__________________
"Cry havoc and let slip the dogs of War"
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14 Jan 2009, 17:47
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#181
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Tides of Fire
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 318
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Re: r30 ship stats
Terran CR would be an option if the harpy could compete with Xan FI.
That said, if most people are fi/co then with good cross defending and a powerful cr/bs fleet one of these people would have more potential to win, but at a much higher risk.
The cathaar co fleet looks like a bad option this rnd, the CR is similar situation to Terran CR.
Plenty of potential for zik, and ETDs are in for a very interesting round with 4 pod classes, all sorts of flight ideas may appear there.
__________________
Quote:
"Hold the newsreader's nose squarely, waiter, or friendly milk will countermand my trousers."
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14 Jan 2009, 19:52
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#182
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Noruega
Posts: 2,999
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Re: r30 ship stats
Seriously, if terrans split their fleet ~~60% Cr and ~~40% Fi then i am convinced that it is possible to survive unless you start losing value.
http://beta.thrud.co.uk/index.php?loadfile=beta12398a0
Here both races has 40%~~ in deffleet and 60% in attackfleet. It really isnt THAT bad if you ask me..
__________________
"Cry havoc and let slip the dogs of War"
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14 Jan 2009, 20:11
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#183
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Banned
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Further to the right
Posts: 19,441
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Re: r30 ship stats
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wishmaster
how likely is that though?
I m guessing like 35-40% xans.
And its not just that..its that the ter anti fi/co is really utter useless, unless u go FR, and even then u will end up in a situation where u need ingal FR to cover u, or full cover pretty much from FI/CO.
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I'd recommend going 100% xan bar scanners. Any strategy beats no strategy.
__________________
Some might ask what good is life without purpose but I'm anticipating a good lunch.
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14 Jan 2009, 20:25
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#184
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LDK
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Norway
Posts: 2,220
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Re: r30 ship stats
you recommend 100% of the universe to go xans?
A universal strategy your talkign about?
__________________
[Omen]
Quote:
Originally posted by Newt
I would give me right testicle to be in a gal with you wishmaster!!! wonder if thatd be enough to bribe spinner with hmmmm
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<JC`> i sent him a msg saying Wishmaster 0wns, so he recalled
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14 Jan 2009, 20:29
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#185
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Tides of Fire
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 318
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Re: r30 ship stats
If you recommend strategies like that maybe you should be altering your stats again...
__________________
Quote:
"Hold the newsreader's nose squarely, waiter, or friendly milk will countermand my trousers."
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14 Jan 2009, 20:37
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#186
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Banned
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Further to the right
Posts: 19,441
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Re: r30 ship stats
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeyi
If you recommend strategies like that maybe you should be altering your stats again...
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Yeah, because that's going to solve fundamental issues about targetability in planetarion.
Quote:
you recommend 100% of the universe to go xans?
A universal strategy your talkign about?
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In the grand history of things I don't care about this is certainly pretty high up there so I'm just going to ignore any posts like that in future.
__________________
Some might ask what good is life without purpose but I'm anticipating a good lunch.
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14 Jan 2009, 20:39
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#187
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LDK
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Norway
Posts: 2,220
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Re: r30 ship stats
I think hes trying to be somewhat witty, and trying to say Omen should do that.. not that I see why he would say that. but thats my guess! and also its more about any strategy is better than no strategy. But that has also been said before in this thread. Basicly I dont understand his post, and its rather shit
__________________
[Omen]
Quote:
Originally posted by Newt
I would give me right testicle to be in a gal with you wishmaster!!! wonder if thatd be enough to bribe spinner with hmmmm
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<JC`> i sent him a msg saying Wishmaster 0wns, so he recalled
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14 Jan 2009, 23:04
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#188
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 898
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Re: r30 ship stats
Are we going to get an independant (non-asc) review of the stats before they are finalised?
__________________
R4-5 DDK
R6 Vanx
R7-R10 FAnG
R10 Eclipse
R10.5-R13 FAnG
R20-23 CT
R23 (CT BG) ToF
R24-R82... CT
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14 Jan 2009, 23:33
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#189
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Retired
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Back Porch Bar
Posts: 2,593
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Re: r30 ship stats
Quote:
Originally Posted by [DDK]gm
Are we going to get an independant (non-asc) review of the stats before they are finalised?
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Sign up for a beta account and make up your own mind about them?
__________________
I'd rather be fishing.
Utterly useless since r3
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14 Jan 2009, 23:39
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#190
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This Space for Rent
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 583
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Re: r30 ship stats
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cochese
Sign up for a beta account and make up your own mind about them?
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or talk someone from another alliance into caring about the stats and sharing their ideas
__________________
When in doubt, blame Ascendancy.
#pastats
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14 Jan 2009, 23:45
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#191
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Retired
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Back Porch Bar
Posts: 2,593
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Re: r30 ship stats
Yeah, that too.
If such people exist anymore...and judging by the dead-zone these forums have become, I'd say they don't :/
__________________
I'd rather be fishing.
Utterly useless since r3
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14 Jan 2009, 23:49
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#192
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Ireland
Posts: 1,143
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Re: r30 ship stats
Quote:
Originally Posted by [DDK]gm
Are we going to get an independant (non-asc) review of the stats before they are finalised?
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cant you do it?
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14 Jan 2009, 23:52
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#193
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 898
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Re: r30 ship stats
we have thats why im asking, is pateam going to review these stats to either chuck them out or nerf xan
__________________
R4-5 DDK
R6 Vanx
R7-R10 FAnG
R10 Eclipse
R10.5-R13 FAnG
R20-23 CT
R23 (CT BG) ToF
R24-R82... CT
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14 Jan 2009, 23:54
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#194
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Retired
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Back Porch Bar
Posts: 2,593
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Re: r30 ship stats
No offense to PA Team, but if they were capable of making a decent set of stats, they would.
__________________
I'd rather be fishing.
Utterly useless since r3
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15 Jan 2009, 00:00
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#195
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 898
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Re: r30 ship stats
they are too busy coding to care about stats
__________________
R4-5 DDK
R6 Vanx
R7-R10 FAnG
R10 Eclipse
R10.5-R13 FAnG
R20-23 CT
R23 (CT BG) ToF
R24-R82... CT
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15 Jan 2009, 00:11
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#196
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Retired
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Back Porch Bar
Posts: 2,593
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Re: r30 ship stats
You just answered your own question then.
__________________
I'd rather be fishing.
Utterly useless since r3
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15 Jan 2009, 01:29
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#197
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Banned
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Further to the right
Posts: 19,441
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Re: r30 ship stats
Quote:
Originally Posted by [DDK]gm
Are we going to get an independant (non-asc) review of the stats before they are finalised?
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You should see some of the great hidden strategies I talk about in #ascendancy while laughing at everyone else thinking I might have wasted my time creating an interesting set of stats and asking for reasonable suggestions to make them more balanced
Anyways, here's what I'm going to do. I'm going to make the harpy 40% harder to kill. Unfortunately they've taken away my beta access (or I've forgotten my password, who cares) but once I get it back that's what's in line!
__________________
Some might ask what good is life without purpose but I'm anticipating a good lunch.
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15 Jan 2009, 01:37
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#198
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Retired
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Back Porch Bar
Posts: 2,593
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Re: r30 ship stats
Increase Xan Fi initiatives to 9/10 ish while you're at it, that should "fix" things!
__________________
I'd rather be fishing.
Utterly useless since r3
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15 Jan 2009, 07:47
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#199
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Noruega
Posts: 2,999
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Re: r30 ship stats
Shame if xan gets nerfed just so CTs who plan on going Terran can make their race the best.
__________________
"Cry havoc and let slip the dogs of War"
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15 Jan 2009, 11:25
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#200
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;D!
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,810
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Re: r30 ship stats
Quote:
Originally Posted by isildurx
I think its going to be hard to have both to be honest
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Like I said before, depends on race split.
Xands need lots of vsh to stop cutlass, but they also need lots of pulsars to nullify the init 5 FR (of which there are 3...) and lots of phants. Since ziks will probably build cutlass, the only thing phants are useful for are self def and stopping harpies.
If harpies aren't massively abundant in the uni, I would be inclined to go more vsh/pulsar heavy, making terr look better.
__________________
[ND]
Kicked from Ascendancy
Proud to have been a Dark Lord Rising.
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