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Unread 28 Nov 2006, 02:09   #151
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Re: eXilition

for all the unsung heroes you have qebab, you have far too many self-centred, narrow-minded planetarion players who are just not good enough at grasping enough about the game than at a simple planetary level, who ruin your alliance in most ways possible (rank, reputation, morale..)
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Unread 28 Nov 2006, 02:14   #152
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Re: eXilition

Quote:
Originally Posted by qebab
I would say the typical Angels player is people like LT^, icewind, IsildurX, me, Migi etc. Most of these people are good guys, and I'm sick of you slandering them on every opportunity, after you, in all your greatness, decided to shipjump after what? 2 weeks? While these guys stick with us during the entire race course, no matter what. They deserve better.
You'll notice, though, that he said 'stereotype' not 'typical'. The two are vastly different. You guys do have a bad reputation. Some of it is undeserved, some of it is deserved. The fact that you can stand up for the decision and that the defenders chose to stay definitely says something in favor of their character and loyalty.

That still doesn't excuse rain's throwing all his toys out of the pram and whining that jer is an EXilition support planet.
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Unread 28 Nov 2006, 02:17   #153
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Re: eXilition

ascendancy damage-control squad jumping to ur little mascot's defence?

its a fact that most ppl knew of what was going on in the FC.also fact that they decided to stay on their own. nothing wrong with that.
and also fact, that u wanted the free ships and didnt get them, and now are acting like you were somehow entitled to them? LOL?

there were plenty other FC's more or less successfull during the round? why arent THOSE on AD? because certain loudmouth(s) weren't invoved?

and as for who is the better player, that is for everybody to decide on their own. 100% subjective decission


p.s. whats a pussyfooter ?
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Unread 28 Nov 2006, 02:18   #154
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Re: eXilition

Quote:
Originally Posted by qebab
I would say the typical Angels player is people like LT^, icewind, IsildurX, me, Migi etc. Most of these people are good guys, and I'm sick of you slandering them on every opportunity, after you, in all your greatness, decided to shipjump after what? 2 weeks? While these guys stick with us during the entire race course, no matter what. They deserve better.
Shipjump? Where to? I just decided I rather be in Ascendancy only and no longer in two alliances. It's been about three weeks btw. And maybe they deserve better once they get their act together and stop allowing themselves being exploited.
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Unread 28 Nov 2006, 02:21   #155
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Re: eXilition

Quote:
Originally Posted by voodoo
there were plenty other FC's more or less successfull during the round? why arent THOSE on AD?
We were just tired of all this exilition talk. So why shouldn't we take a piss at rain for this piss-poor attempt of surviving himself at the cost of killing two of his alliance mates?
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Unread 28 Nov 2006, 02:23   #156
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Re: eXilition

had it been the other way around, and if there were him deffending some other planet against FC, im fairly certain he would have done the same thing and stayed to minimise the lossess. or at least spread them between more planets not just one.

that is the face you have yet to see. and then judge. after having known a person in different scenarios and from different angles.
as i try and refrain from passing judgement on you based on ur AD posts, maybe u should do the same for others, not because u care, but because it would insult ur oh-so-praised intelect not to!
or not?
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Unread 28 Nov 2006, 02:26   #157
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Re: eXilition

Quote:
Originally Posted by voodoo
ascendancy damage-control squad jumping to ur little mascot's defence?
I don't really see the need to control any damage. While anything jerome says reflects on Ascendancy, we really don't give a shit how much anyone thinks we're damaged by it.

Personally, I think the landing was just nasty. I avoid landing stuff like that, but that doesn't mean it's wrong to. For the two EX players it's obviously worth it just to **** up the FO defenders. Killing defense fleets is a big part of wars. The three other players obviously made their own calls, and jerome is entitled to his opinion that it was dumb to land the defense.
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Unread 28 Nov 2006, 02:41   #158
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Re: eXilition

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heartless
Shipjump? Where to? I just decided I rather be in Ascendancy only and no longer in two alliances. It's been about three weeks btw. And maybe they deserve better once they get their act together and stop allowing themselves being exploited.
Three alliances, you mean. Or did you not intend to mention P|M?

I don't see what's the huge difference between a shipjump and a triple membership where you decide to terminate two of those.
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Unread 28 Nov 2006, 02:45   #159
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Re: eXilition

voodoo: you need to read my posts again, i never said anything about free losses, as i explained to rain in pm right now AND EARLIER IN MY POST! i would've just removed the phantoms, and spread the loss, instead of focusing the losses on mostly phantoms. where did i act like i am entitled to the ships? i have not said ANYTHING about the stolen ships or so, my entire focus has been on misuse of alliance-mates. please, i don't want to have to explain one more time, R E A D.

if it had been the other way around, i would've.. done exactly what i have said i'd do several times now: remove phants. also most in ascendancy know my different faces considering i've played with them in 1up or in the world cup or even in-gal right now where some of us focus on roids and value

i'm not sure what damage control ascendancy needs right here as it was FO who came out of that FC worse in all respects apart from rain having more beetles now and us having some less, or maybe do you mean on the forums where you're inability to read and comprehend what i'm saying and apparent ability to just magically make up your own post that you accredit to me and try to be mean to me on that?!
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Unread 28 Nov 2006, 02:50   #160
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Re: eXilition

Just read up on the fleetcatch, looked at a few battlecalcs.

Now the difference between the two is down to professional judgment, in my opinion.

First off, let me state that if a DC sent people on that defence by force it would have been very unfair, but that was not the case, they knew exactly what they were getting themselves into. To send fleets into the fire like that for people who were unwilling/unknowing of their doom would have been unacceptable.

The phantoms result in a marginal reduction of loss for FO AND a 250k gain for ex etc reduced to a break even/minor gain. On pure numbers terms, obviously the phantoms are a good result for FO. However, if the planets who have just lost those fleets are attacked appropriately, in the long term it could be a very counterproductive measure, especially considering 2 substantial defence fleets have been lost.

Given a choice I don't think I would have gone for the phantoms, simply because 2 fleets are better than one. However, I still think it's a matter of opinion. If i was ex, I'd land either way, as it ****s up plenty of FO defenders and in war, that's the kind of landings you get.
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Unread 28 Nov 2006, 03:00   #161
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Re: eXilition

Quote:
Originally Posted by voodoo
or at least spread them between more planets not just one.

I support this statement fully out.

There are three ways to deal with a fleetcatch the way I see it. Its a) gets fully covered, all deffleets land etc. 2-3 attackfleets forget to pull and crashes. (Hi ViSioN)

b) It doesnt get covered by a half a mile, all defenders are told to pull, and poor Joe Alliancemember loses his fleet, gets a shoulder to cry on, and some nice nekkid photos from some quality porn site.

Then there is c)
Sometimes its a "stalemate" Now, in most cases (im not even gonna go close at commenting the "rain incident" Okay, i did anyways ) there will be huge losses on both sides, but atleast the damange will be spread out for the defenders aswell. Joe Alliancemenber gets some extra help from others that too "crashes" their fleets but the gainage for the attacker is lessened or even nullified and the defenders have some salvage to regain. (In theese cases I ALWAYS ask the planet getting fleetcaught to run everything he dont need, to make the salvage more fair on the others)

--

Also remember, that there is always a variation of the battlecalcs from both defenders and attackers. Attackers _think_ they got the fc good, but miscalculates or disregards ship in prod.

Rain should prolly have considered being a good sport and tell everyone else to recall and let the damage get on him, but sometimes when i've asked alliancemembers to pull from a fleetcatch, they've even refused stating that their care for an alliancemember outweighed the care for their ships. Maybe not always the most "intelligent" assumption, but in my belief, a very noble one.
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Unread 28 Nov 2006, 03:06   #162
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Re: eXilition

Quote:
Originally Posted by voodoo
had it been the other way around, and if there were him deffending some other planet against FC, im fairly certain he would have done the same thing and stayed to minimise the lossess. or at least spread them between more planets not just one.

that is the face you have yet to see. and then judge. after having known a person in different scenarios and from different angles.
as i try and refrain from passing judgement on you based on ur AD posts, maybe u should do the same for others, not because u care, but because it would insult ur oh-so-praised intelect not to!
or not?
Problem is Ascendancy doesnt do def so we'd never have that decision.
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Unread 28 Nov 2006, 03:07   #163
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Re: eXilition

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester
Personally, I think the landing was just nasty. I avoid landing stuff like that, but that doesn't mean it's wrong to. For the two EX players it's obviously worth it just to **** up the FO defenders. Killing defense fleets is a big part of wars. The three other players obviously made their own calls, and jerome is entitled to his opinion that it was dumb to land the defense.
I'll tell you too exactly what I told Jer.
Here is the bcalc of that battle.
http://bcalc.lch-hq.org/?id=111694363787841164651065
Remove as many phantoms as you want(5k, 10k, 50k, 100k, all). Observe the loss value difference between attackers and defenders. Let me know exactly how many phantoms to remove for MINIMUM loss difference(difference, not minimum loss).
PS: Removing xan defence would have equalised the losses between defenders(bigger losses though), yes. Also it would have brought bigger gains to attackers and smaller ship losses for them.

Here's a DC test for you. Those are all the def ships available. Feel free to remove any of those(any ship you want really). Let me know how that bcalc of yours looks like when your on def side. I really want to compare it to mine. Take your time. I'm open to discussions on this subject. Anytime.
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Unread 28 Nov 2006, 03:13   #164
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Re: eXilition

when the calc with phants isn't enough to make attackers pull (which it obviously wasn't), you have to move on to damage limitation strategies and remove the phants, spread losses between ziks and some nixes - and the cath who sent spids, which'd still be in smaller proportions than isil and the other guy losing 700k themselves
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Unread 28 Nov 2006, 03:26   #165
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Re: eXilition

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heartless
I am not sure if I should laugh or cry now, considering rain is pretty much stereotype for most angels player.
Laugh, obviously. Followed by pity.
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Unread 28 Nov 2006, 08:57   #166
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Re: eXilition

Quote:
Originally Posted by voodoo
im fairly certain he would have done the same thing and stayed to minimise the lossess. or at least spread them between more planets not just one.
Possibly. Here, on the other hand, the losses weren't (or well, were) spread, rather than reallocated: the guy getting FC'd didn't take much heat, instead capped to increase his value, while two defenders' fleets were pretty much smashed into bits. So, basically, it was redirecting the damage from the target to two defenders. Someone soaked up the ugly beating, and someone skimmed the cream.

edit. me, myself and grammar

Last edited by Tietäjä; 28 Nov 2006 at 12:59.
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Unread 28 Nov 2006, 10:55   #167
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Re: eXilition

Quote:
Originally Posted by qebab
Three alliances, you mean. Or did you not intend to mention P|M?

I don't see what's the huge difference between a shipjump and a triple membership where you decide to terminate two of those.
Well it's not like neither angels nor p|m knew I'd still be in ascendancy. Angels did also know I joiend p|m for some coord collecting (which failed horribly due to not being arsed enough to actually join their channels frequently). So at least with Sjor it was fine while I was angels. Looks like you are desperately seeking for a way to slander me. I am going into the corner now and will cry you a river if that makes you happier. :crymeariver:
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Unread 28 Nov 2006, 11:47   #168
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Re: eXilition

Quote:
Originally Posted by rain
I'll tell you too exactly what I told Jer.
Here is the bcalc of that battle.
http://bcalc.lch-hq.org/?id=111694363787841164651065
Remove as many phantoms as you want(5k, 10k, 50k, 100k, all). Observe the loss value difference between attackers and defenders. Let me know exactly how many phantoms to remove for MINIMUM loss difference(difference, not minimum loss).
PS: Removing xan defence would have equalised the losses between defenders(bigger losses though), yes. Also it would have brought bigger gains to attackers and smaller ship losses for them.

Here's a DC test for you. Those are all the def ships available. Feel free to remove any of those(any ship you want really). Let me know how that bcalc of yours looks like when your on def side. I really want to compare it to mine. Take your time. I'm open to discussions on this subject. Anytime.
Regardless of whatever you've written there, you've now got several less useful fleetslots.
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Unread 28 Nov 2006, 13:22   #169
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Re: eXilition

Quote:
Originally Posted by voodoo
p.s. whats a pussyfooter ?
http://www.urbandictionary.com/defin...rm=pussyfooter
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Unread 28 Nov 2006, 14:23   #170
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Re: eXilition

Quote:
Originally Posted by rain
Here's a DC test for you. Those are all the def ships available. Feel free to remove any of those(any ship you want really). Let me know how that bcalc of yours looks like when your on def side. I really want to compare it to mine. Take your time. I'm open to discussions on this subject. Anytime.
I don't think that's his point. It's obvious the defenders are going to suffer heinous losses at your planet.

Jer was saying "why should the defenders lose all their ships for nothing, and you lose relatively few because theirs all act as flak". It's rather a nice little situation for you, having a whole load of flak that will throw itself in front of your ships to reduce YOUR PERSONAL losses.

Actually I'm amazed that as a DC (and you seem to think yourself a competent DC, at that) you sent these ships off after looking at that calc. Rule #1, don't send people's fleets off unless it's covered. Which that isn't.

If I was Angels HC I'd be hoping rain would resign as a DC, actually. But then what would happen if he got more incs?! A proper DC might not find him enough flak to protect his own precious shippies :crymeariver:
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Unread 28 Nov 2006, 19:41   #171
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Re: eXilition

Ascendancy is it cause i fleetcaught JBG?
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Unread 29 Nov 2006, 02:03   #172
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Re: eXilition

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester
rain: getting owned by Ascendancy since round 16.
why doesnt chipz have a Angels --> Ascendancy thing next to his name
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Unread 29 Nov 2006, 02:19   #173
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Re: eXilition

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sjor
Ascendancy is it cause i fleetcaught JBG?
No, that's why you got fleetcaught. This one was because we don't like rain.
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Unread 29 Nov 2006, 02:24   #174
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Re: eXilition

also if im truthful id be pretty happy if that was my planet dude!
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Unread 29 Nov 2006, 02:37   #175
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Re: eXilition

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alki
also if im truthful id be pretty happy if that was my planet dude!
We're not exactly fond of FO, Omen, Angels, eXilition, NewDawn, ToF, VisioN, Fury, Xanadu, Concordium, T6E or The 17th Legion either. Or your mother.
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Unread 29 Nov 2006, 02:48   #176
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Re: eXilition

eX isn't fond of her either.
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Unread 29 Nov 2006, 03:43   #177
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Re: eXilition

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
We're not exactly fond of FO, Omen, Angels, eXilition, NewDawn, ToF, VisioN, Fury, Xanadu, Concordium, T6E or The 17th Legion either. Or your mother.
But his sister is okay.
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Unread 29 Nov 2006, 11:40   #178
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Re: eXilition

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
No, that's why you got fleetcaught. This one was because we don't like rain.
i got FCed to save Satyrs 16k beetle and that worked
and unless Ascen has 6 members in 4 difernt alliances it wasnt Ascen that FCed me
and btw i had my CO fleet up again after 3 days
so wasnt really a FC that killed me
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Unread 29 Nov 2006, 11:47   #179
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Re: eXilition

Ascendancy doesn't actually do anything. We just sit behind the scenes orchestrating things and engaging in spontaneous rounds of mutual back-slapping.
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Unread 29 Nov 2006, 16:34   #180
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Re: eXilition

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alki
why doesnt chipz have a Angels --> Ascendancy thing next to his name
The same reason I don't have a DLR --> 1up next to my name.

(because it'd look stupid!)
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Unread 29 Nov 2006, 18:41   #181
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Re: eXilition

but other people have it, for example r13 rank stats
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Unread 29 Nov 2006, 20:59   #182
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Re: eXilition

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
Ascendancy doesn't actually do anything. We just sit behind the scenes orchestrating things and engaging in spontaneous rounds of mutual back-slapping.
but, but..... but we do drink alot!
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