SiNND

[ReligFree]

tbh i dont know how you can say ND would never have got in top10 as we have tbh been there for 90% of the round before the merge

[Barrow|Pony]

ND already has achieved what we wanted with this merge.

We brought a new energy to our member base. As hard as it may be to believe, we play for our members, not for AD.

[themast]

as countless people have said b4 moral was one of the main reasons why we merged and now that moral has increased i see people more active and willing to go on attacks etc.

[Lupin]

why have your members now a greater moral and are more active?

i could imagine it is because you climbed in ranks.

[TehVader]

I would imagine it's because they want to know what we can do now, we're able to defend properly again and with the merging we've doubled our MO staff so attacks should also be easier to coordinate, and judging from the last two nights roidgain it's gone pretty good too. I also think that they're interested in finding out who these new people are, I know I am, and so far they've turned out to be a bunch of nice guys with the same sense of humour as us. That may be the most important of all imo

Gaining ranks is just a bi-product, although I'm sure they're happy with that too...

[Gio2k]

[troll]
Top or not
I am still leet and you are sh..
[/troll]

Btw, nothing personal here, i just liked it bc it rimed

[Lupin]

Originally Posted by TehVader

Gaining ranks is just a bi-product, although I'm sure they're happy with that too...

i say, gaining ranks and being the centre of the momentary universe is the fundament for what you described.

[Barrow|Pony]

Maybe for some alliances.

The pr0n stash of SiN really gets our jumpers running.

[_Kila_]

Originally Posted by TehVader

and with the merging we've doubled our MO staff so attacks should also be easier to coordinate

no. we have half ur MO's. but we are just as effective .
hehe 5 HCs and 3 MOs ftw

[aNgRyDuCk]

Originally Posted by TehVader

so far they've turned out to be a bunch of nice guys with the same sense of humour as us. That may be the most important of all imo
...

that's a scary thought

[[Unknown]]

Originally Posted by Clogg

And Kjeldoran, you really need to speak with your memebers, cause wouldn't it be best for Angels to speak the same langanguage instead of contradicting eachother?

/me sighs

Just because we have our own views about this situation doesnt mean it represents the whole of Angels.

[Kjeldoran]

Originally Posted by [Unknown]

/me sighs

Just because we have our own views about this situation doesnt mean it represents the whole of Angels.

Don't bother, Unknown ...

[noah02]

Originally Posted by Veedeejem!

SiN & ND are 2 ally's i personally respect
But now my respect for the both of them has dropped alot.
Without their merge both of them would never even have gotten in t10.
It's just pretty focking lame if you ask me.
But anyway, gl to tearz & the rest of SiNND, i hope for your sake you'll achieve something with this merge, or else you'll all be looking pretty stupid.

why lose ur respect?why not just respect them more for there choices they are right next to exil (200k score off atm)now and i can see them moving 2nd place at this rate.

[virogenesis]

Originally Posted by Barrow|Pony

ND already has achieved what we wanted with this merge.

We brought a new energy to our member base. As hard as it may be to believe, we play for our members, not for AD.

A little story.....
Please take note I am not talking as a officer in behalf of EnTitY & my views are NOT EnTitY's they are just my own & can somewhat be flawed as my posts are somewhat far from being perfect.


From the start of round 9

Prior to the start of Round 9 I was approached by my former TRG hcs in which they were making a few gals & they wanted me to be part of them they were going down the road the weet road due to the connections we had inside WP.
Our sister gal was also WP this lead me to be very concerned about what would happen if wp faced a shortage of def.

Attitude was looking like a complete mess & was deemed a failure from the start I was approached by my gal mates to find an alliance I had already been contacted by Edge for me to come join EnTitY by this time I was considering such a move but with my gal mates wanted me to join one of the allies within weet having spoken to cheetos about recruitment he basicaly said he wasn't interested in me as I wasn't a top 100 player & having zitoz in the gal I soon contacted Zh|l who could not vouch for me at the time having not dealt with him before.
My gal then tried talking me into joining nos but instread I decided to go for EnTitY in which i knew nothing about the alliance before.
So it stands the two gals both made up of a TRG & 4D core were made up.
I focused my energy in trying to convince the rest of the gal to join me in the nar incase anything turnt messy I explained to them how nar were a neutral block & allowed either side to be in the block.

As the round continued VVOM were getting smashed into the ground by both nar & weet.
By this time It appeared that they were no valid targets left in the universe in which case WP made the first move for weet by declaring war on Nar giving us a few hours to get ready for our first night of incoming that night we had as a block had 92 gals hit & with hirr leaving the block earlier that round we went into combat with only nos, newdawn & rah.
Later that round we had internal problems leaving us without tygercub (our head dc).
With SirOrion & the rest of the command team including myself & the ROs taking dcs calls we knew without a doubt we were pushed the moral of the alliance was decreasing when Nar contacted us we were made away of what was happening inside nar with nos waning to go into vac mode & rah seeing this as a cowardly move we decided to go for a tactical retreat in which the officers & members could rest.
When we told our meetings at the meeting about our plan we had many members
seeing this as a cowardly action but when we explained to them that a break within weet would happen most were forth coming.
Colcarp then accounced in Auld they would not be going into vacation mode & told the entity members o go against EnTitY orders in which some were stupid enough to believe NewDawn would look out for there interests but instead used them as def while the members that were foolish enough to believe nd would provide some def didn't.
EnTitY members that weren't already in vacation could not be helped & many suffered because of NewDawn's traitorous ways.
This was round 9 I know but when you have an allie & you even share a channel together you learn to respect that allie.
Up to the end of round 9.5 entity were disrespected by ND up until the point were we accounced to the public we would be disbanding & then ND came along after trying to convince members to join Newdawn (please note thegreatone was i think their biggest member & he was the average of an Ety member damn that was fun mocking them )

Please also take into consideration that I played mainly with xanadu gals in which I have played with Newdawn many times before even with Dravvin a former dc in Newdawn so I shouldn't really have a hatred.

One bitten twice shy.... just remember that...
If it looks like an apple, tastes like an apple & smells like an apple then it is more than likely to be a apple... still looks like the ND who can't fend for themselves really just don't let them take credit & also make sure they don't try to poach members when the merge splits if it does.

Please understand this is my personal warning to S!N.
I do understand I'll be flamed for this post of mine & I actually expect that to happen & also expect to hear some say that was r9 its history.
Yes its history but history plays a big part of who we are & what we will become.
Thanks

[Storebo]

Originally Posted by Remy

Hehe, i won't complain. LCH and HR did something similar a few rounds ago (resulting in FYTFO) and we were massacred in AD for it. :-)

If they did it, then hurray for them, let them, i don't care. As long as they didn't kick mass members to make it 100, like some other alliance did last round or the round before (forgot which one)

the phraktos/mistu merge in round 11, i think you are talking about..
Merges can either wreck everything or make things better... is a bold move actually. And there is still almost a month left of the game... So who knows what will happen.

[Barrow|Pony]

Oh good lord.

Yes, we said that Auld shouldn't go into vacation mode. And if you didn't run off into vacation mode, we would have had more resources to deal with the hostiles that came up, and we would have had more resources to put out better attacks to alleviate pressure on us.

Your accusations about using ETY to soak up defense are unfounded, completely false, and slanderous.

I've outlined what ND did and why about four hundred bazillion times since then and I've no desire to do it again. I'm sorry that your clouded judgement still reigns supreme.

Cheers.

[virogenesis]

Barrow|Pony explain to me why I'm so bitter towards ND please as if thats not the case & edid Nos decide to go into vac mode... yes they did so it wasn't only ety who went into vacation mode so please tell me how on earth we were meant to manage.
MY accusations are not false infact they are fact I'd suggest you check your irc logs then come back & say sorry because as it stands I was an officer that night & had to explain to my members about having no def available.
I'm sorry about you clouded memory about that night & I'd suggest speaking to h3ll if hes still a member because he was a gal mate at the time & will tell you how annoyed I was.
ND at the time made an offer to protect the ety members that didn't go into vac mode & then when i had a go because ety members came under fire & then colcarp's reply was we will defend ety members but first we need to take care of the nd members.
Prior to the ety members getting incoming a def call was made by nd dcs.... can any ety with available fleets pm me....

[Barrow|Pony]

Your accusations are totally based in fiction, I'd call that false.

NoS and ETY decided to go into vacation mode, leaving ND and RaH to handle themselves in an environment where they were completely outnumbered and outgunned. If ETY had consulted with their allies and partners before issuing their death warrant by leaving them to get assraped, they would have learned that ND was willing to contribute to ETY's success assuming you would help out. Your alliance took the easy way out and tried to pawn off the blame on ColCarp and I, and I'm not too keen on th at.

Sometimes alliances don't have enough defense. It's bad, but it happens. If you're trying to say that ND is "traitorous" because there weren't enough friendly ships to go around, you need to rethink your evaluation of alliances in general.

[virogenesis]

no i see this as a traitous action because you influcenced ety members when they were given DIRECT orders from myself & the rest of the command team.
It had already been decided that nos didn't at the time have the firepower to cope.
Do you think Dingo enjoyed using this tactic i'd say it would of hurt his pride I was the miltary officer for ety at the time so I know what resources we had available & it wasn't much bit more than nd i'd say so please stop passing the buck i have nothing to gain by this as you & many others are aware I no longer play.

Definition:

1. [adj] deliberately and abominably disloyal or likely to betray trust or confidence; "the faithless Benedict Arnold"; "a lying traitorous insurrectionist"

Disloyal.... we gave orders to OUR members you then decided to go against our orders we gave to our members... this my friend is disloyal...
Many would vouch for me being an honourable player even when i was unhappy in wp in 10.5 I shared my views i could of said alot of nasty things behind their backs I never instead i made my views at the time public & infact I along with sid were pushing for a war when innocent wp members were geting roided at the time.
ND had no ships to offer ETY & likewise the whole block was dry & thanks to us a split came sooner.

[Gumbie]

Stop hijacking my ego thread

[Gumbie]

As said before, it's undecided.

[aNgRyDuCk]

Barrow is about as much a traitor as I am a big fat woman with 46DD hooters and a mustache(god I know I'm gonna pay for that one in channel...I do hope you all enjoy the visual though )

[virogenesis]

angryDuck does that mean us lot with a bbw fetish get to see pics?
you're paying for it already

[Barrow|Pony]

You're calling ND HC disloyal?

Which alliance was it that stopped fighting and left their allies to a conflict where they were outmatched, outgunned, and outmanned?

Which alliance was it that gave up and left the partners which they had previously agreed to stick with through thick and thin?

Which one vir?

[Gumbie]

It was SiN, in a move of PBKGobi proportions, we are dramatically kicking all the ND peeps, so they are boned for 72 ticks, and merging with Exi. Haha! I win at the internet!

As a SiN HC, I don't give a rat's ass (Sorry TheRat) about your babble from round 9, where any number of things could have happened. I like the ND people now, and I have no evidence in my experience with Barrow that he'd do something like that.
In conclusion, here's 20p, to call someone who cares.

P.S. You sound like a more coherent Yeh :/

[Kjeldoran]

Originally Posted by Gumbie

P.S. You sound like a more coherent Yeh :/

A less coherent person then Yeh would be difficult to find

[virogenesis]

Originally Posted by Barrow|Pony

You're calling ND HC disloyal?

Which alliance was it that stopped fighting and left their allies to a conflict where they were outmatched, outgunned, and outmanned?

Which alliance was it that gave up and left the partners which they had previously agreed to stick with through thick and thin?

Which one vir?

Which alliances do you mean?
Well if you consider one of the main parties involved NoS to be a traitor aswell because that is what you are implying we were outmatched, outgunned & outmanned so you tell me why not to go into vacation mode & cut down half the targets in the universe because lets face it look what happened to vvom they were bashed into the ashes.
We decided we would go for a tactical retreat it gave our members time to get some sleep to build up their energy it gave us time in which we could look further a field for help else where.
The only con was we would be called cowards for using a lame tactic but in all honesty how many did you hear call fury cowards back in r6?
It was a valid tactic used just like your so called merge.
Our allies were mainly nos i myself didn't have much contact with rah don't think.
Like angryDuck says in the other thread when your members start to become inactive due to bashing that was happening you have to really ask yourself is it worth fighting now or should we back off & fight another day.
So if thats traitours looking out for your own members then I'm a traitor & you can quote me on that if you wish but truh is you knew we would go into vac mode along with nos to force a split & you thought you were clever by not entering like rah.
Quite a pitty because I'm sure your members would of rather recovered a bit more I'd say I know when our members came back they were alot more positive with things & when the split came about like we said it would I personaly had a big grin on my face as it worked.


So you sum up the pros vs cons.

+ time to recover
+ time to sort out ideas
+ turn one another against each other

- get called cowards.....does that even happen?

3 vs 1 well it sums it up for me

so now answer the reason how you could ever even dare call us traitors as you did give orders to ENTITY.... keyword EnTiY....not NewDawn members who were given strict orders\advised to go into vac.
Funny that itself seems to be more disloyal then anything I have ever heard of.

Gumble I'd suggest you check around before putting me in the same catergory as that loser.
Yeh is totaly the opposite of me as many will tell you I'm well respected by many hcs as a loyal & trusting member but on the otherhand Yeh is extremely amusing (Does anyone remember when he roided dravvin in r5?).
But like i say I gain nothing from this as a retired player do I?
Infact by me even posting I've probaly annoyed korenchkin.
But I think I've made my point now I just wish you the best of luck you'll need it

[Gumbie]

Ranting about past rounds via current affairs threads was a particular favourite passtime of yeh's. I just call 'em as I see 'em.

[virogenesis]

fair enough that I do understand anyway good luck with the remainder of the round i hope you get out of this merge what you require.

[Zh|l]

Originally Posted by virogenesis

Which alliances do you mean?

We decided we would go for a tactical retreat it gave our members time to get some sleep to build up their energy it gave us time in which we could look further a field for help else where.
The only con was we would be called cowards for using a lame tactic but in all honesty how many did you hear call fury cowards back in r6?
It was a valid tactic used just like your so called merge.

Hang on a cotton picking minute.

Where was this Fury mass exodus into vacation mode? Fury never condoned the use of vacation mode in such a manner, and my memory seems to indicate that Fury was one of the alliances that kept on fighting tooth and nail in r6. Jester, Rob, and Sid can attest more to r6 politics but I do believe what you say here is slanderous and lies.

As for ETY, you and NoS entrance into vacation mode didnt make a blind bit of difference to us. WEET and NAR broke up when we felt it was right to do so, the same with WEET,, not before. I don't recall any discussion within Eclipse regarding a change in politics due to enemies going into vacation mode. The break in WEET came from WP/Eclipse tensions where WP hit us, we hit them, and then it calmed down only for them to hit us again after Elysium attempted to mediate the issue. It didn't happen and Eclipse weren't willing to let WP get away with attacking Rob's galaxy. So we declared war on WP. Rest is history. You have overblown the mass vacation thing totally as it never registered once in any HC discussion I was part of.

As for ND, I've only had the chance to speak/work with them the last few rounds and I've never found them to be liars nor backstabbers at all. They stick to their guns and principles and there is no other alliance that I quite trust as much as them currently in the game. (Apart from my own obviously.)

[virogenesis]

Sorry I do apologize zhil about the whole fury thing as you are well aware from playing with me I did not intend for me to be slanderous towards fury.
I actually played along side you & for sid to have vouched for me to join 1up is an extreme honour & that itself demands my respect.
I myself left 1up with honour I can sadly say I was 1up not because I was 1up but because I'm former 1up I understand exactly why I wasn't invited back for r12 it was under bad circumstations that my comp broke during the round & didn't really have the money for new parts straight away.
You yourself are a great player I admit this & for me to dishonour my former allie mates is not what I set out to do I would say sorry to you in a more personal manner but as I no longer visit irc much I ng longer have a regged nick so joining public in out of the question.
what time i spent as a 1up member i truely enjoyed one of the best alliances around without a doubt & playing along side you in wp was fun... all the KJ jokes sorry Kj but you're fun i'm afraid
Having played with me do you really think that i'd just make something up for the sake of it?



But back to the whole nar thing dingo had an idea someone would make a move that was all & we knew by doing the whole vac thing would speed up the process you could say we were a catalyst. The fact is you yourself knew WEET wasn't cerment to start with anyone could of told you that.
The thing is the events only took place after a few days of nar being out of vac so while we were in vacation mode I'd personaly say tensions built up more don't know if you would agree with me or not?
But once again I'll say I'm sorry about my patchy memory about r6 but the vac mode thing did help but then again fury going after xeta worked well.

[Banned]

From my cooperation with ND in round 6, I can attest to them being reliable, stand-up chaps. Coming from someone who worked with about 10 different alliances that round, this is no small compliment.

I think people are being overly harsh about the SiNND thing. If you turn around and look at it the other way around: ND, one of the oldest running alliances, with round 1 veterans and other experienced players is sharing this experience with a new alliance.

[Barrow|Pony]

To be honest, we're learning just as much from SiN.

[virogenesis]

Just so you know Zh|l having checked irc logs we were a where of dragons hitting ecl prior to us going into vac mode.
We also note after consulting my logs I also noticed Zoby stating hirr would be going into vac mode then about the matter & tygercub stating rah would be aswell.
Which leaves the whole entire block in vac mode.
Zh|l If you have any logs concerning the whole matter about Dragons hitting ecl you will find that we went into vac mode after that happened

One thing I did notice from the logs was colcarp setting the topic to Any ety member not going ino vac mode will recieve temp nd def.
But as ND knew they would be alone in this fight.
Zh|l I got confused a bit & dread you've worked with me in r3 along side cornish & the rest of TRG come on you know leff, cornish, rabba, lord_death you really think they would like me & do you think cornish would of joint me in entity because that was cornish's last alliance he was in.

[Doorsdown]

Originally Posted by Barrow|Pony

To be honest, we're learning just as much from SiN.

ofc

the new learn from the old and the old learn from the new

Originally Posted by Banned

From my cooperation with ND in round 6, I can attest to them being reliable, stand-up chaps. Coming from someone who worked with about 10 different alliances that round, this is no small compliment.

I think people are being overly harsh about the SiNND thing. If you turn around and look at it the other way around: ND, one of the oldest running alliances, with round 1 veterans and other experienced players is sharing this experience with a new alliance.

definatly, my time with them was great and even after i was no longer a member there community effect is still great.

[Cannon_Fodder]

Originally Posted by Barrow|Pony

To be honest, we're learning just as much from SiN.

Yeah, like how to def properly

Originally Posted by virogenesis

I myself left 1up with honour I can sadly say I was 1up not because I was 1up but because I'm former 1up I

Could you word that a bit better please?

[Spritfire]

Our community rock, it make my tits go hard ( I dont even have tits )

[Zh|l]

Originally Posted by virogenesis

Zh|l If you have any logs concerning the whole matter about Dragons hitting ecl you will find that we went into vac mode after that happened

If this is true (I frankly can't remember the exact timeline of events) then that proves my point all the more. The unravelling of the WEET block had nothing to do with the majority of NAR going into vacation mode or not. Saying you went into vacation after Dragons hit Eclipse is simply admitting you bore no weight in our decision to go to war with Wolfpack. There are no If's Buts or whatnot's about it - you can't tell me what factored a decision in my own alliance. I know what factored within it - it was the fact they hit us and WP/Elysium seemed unable to stop it from happening over and over again.

Obviously if VoM or NAR have put up more a fight then the inevitable would have been delayed longer into the round. (We always knew WP were hesitant about Eclipse from the very beginning)

PS: You have no need to prove your previous membership of 1up. I'm not attacking that, this is here and now. I'm disagreeing with your comments and giving you -my- opinion on events. Personally, I think a mass exodus into vacation mode is quite lame as its an obvious abuse of the feature. More power to ND for not doing it when their allies did. That shows backbone more than anything.

[I am Idler]

ITT - Idler is getting bored of the word 'honour'

please note thegreatone was i think their biggest member & he was the average of an Ety member damn that was fun mocking them

I remember thegreatone. He was a proper gimboid

[virogenesis]

Originally Posted by sniborp

Could you word that a bit better please?

Yeah sure I can word it bit better pretty amazed at how I haven't been flamed as bad as I first thought I would be.
I consider I left 1up with honour sure I was kicked but I was kicked for good reason as I wasn't performing aswell as the others in attacks & def.
I enjoyed myself playing with sid I learnt a great deal from him & he kept a tight ship with no signs of internal power struggles which is good considering all the players have a well known rep with many officers.
When I was told I wasn't making it through to next round with them I had no problem & I do like the member base even the ex fury mebers the few that are there.
Hopefully if I decide to play again I do hope ours paths cross maybe on the battle field against each other maybe I'd say that would be pretty fun mocking each other.

Zh|l just so you know the night after we went into vac made dragons hit ecl hard you losing 3k of roids to them.
Dingo was right but if dingo didn't plan on ely taking part in the war things could of been different who knows but the best side won thats all that matters even if we did have to defend against bloody kill fleets ecl outplayed everyone that round
But if I do return it will look like I'll be either joining a small alliance like f-crew for fun & to train up noobs or I'll continue my personal vendetta against ND.
Having a vendetta truely helps it makes things so much more interesting if you get me & before you ask I do like some ND... pepsigirl seemed alright in the past & blue was ace when i was a member in r7 so they aren't all bad I've got good memories but also bad ones & the bad ones stick out like a thorn in the foot if you get me I'm afraid.

Damn how interesting has this been I actually looked at irc last night & its like damn I miss those guys

But anyway enough of me....lets see the drugded up bananna

Ps: I'm still bloody tired from last night went to bed at 6 & woken up at 9 worst thing is i'm not even working so whats the need in waking up evil people.....

[Scorpio]

To all the FAnG'ers complaining:

I don't remember anyone yelling "unfair, now we're gonna lose!!" many rounds ago when FA merged with nG !!

Grow up and live with it!




Go NewDawn, go!

[Scorpio]

Originally Posted by virogenesis

Dingo was right

When you've finally become a veteran, you will know that Dingo was/is NEVER right.
Until you have realized that, there's no point in you criticizing other alliances/players.

[Dingo]

Are you still alive Scorpio? I thought your stupidity would have gotten you killed by now.

Still sprouting crap as always.

[Kjeldoran]

Originally Posted by Scorpio

To all the FAnG'ers complaining:

I don't remember anyone yelling "unfair, now we're gonna lose!!" many rounds ago when FA merged with nG !!

Grow up and live with it!




Go NewDawn, go!

Hey scorp m8

yes I admit, adding 30 nG pple with 3 FA pple IN BETWEEN ROUNDS was a shocking merger that manipulated the outcome ...

Little do you know about r7 when we founded our alliance ...

[Scorpio]

Originally Posted by Dingo

I thought your stupidity would have gotten you killed by now.

Still sprouting crap as always.

See, you're not right.
Just proven my point.




@ Kj

It however affected the rankings of said alliance(s), didn't it?
Noone complained about the LDK-Xanadu merger during round 4 and that sure as hell had an impact on the rankings.

[Grog]

Originally Posted by virogenesis

The only con was we would be called cowards for using a lame tactic

OK maybe that is the only con.
The question is......Why wasn't that enough?
Your mad at NewDawn because we wouldn't join you in your cowardly actions & we tried to convince others to not be cowards?
OK I can live with that.

You can judge a man (or an alliance) by the quality of his enemies.

To be hated by a coward for not joining him in his cowardice is a good thing.

Once again I find myself "Proud to be NewDawn"

[virogenesis]

Originally Posted by Grog

OK maybe that is the only con.
The question is......Why wasn't that enough?
Your mad at NewDawn because we wouldn't join you in your cowardly actions & we tried to convince others to not be cowards?
OK I can live with that.

You can judge a man (or an alliance) by the quality of his enemies.

To be hated by a coward for not joining him in his cowardice is a good thing.

Once again I find myself "Proud to be NewDawn"

No you are merely confused orders were given by korenchkin & the command staff in charge of entity for all members to go into vac mode because the rest of NaR would be going into vacation mode that weekend Colcarp offered ND protection when they knew completely they wouldn't be able to help as most of the block would be resting.
NaR choose the weekend to allow for big attacks to take place this was one bof the objective for going into vac mode what you have to remember is we knew there was an internal power struggle in WEET we just hoped it would be a more balanced fight.
Just before going into vacation mode we had only one NaR galaxy within the top 100 infact it was ranked 97th so it was a logical idea to let them fight it out between themselves while we rest our block was tired & the moral was low.
Our members came back refreshed & most enjoyed the weekend off I believe some even got brownie points with their girlfriends

Also remember earlier that round we were leading around 4 attacks per night when the war broke out it was lucky if we managed to provide our members with 1 attack per night.

We calculated that that each night 25%-30% were getting incoming it was only a matter of time before we would have been up to 70% & not to mention we were a neutral alliance meaning we had members within weet galaxys which then again gave us the problem of been accused of fence sitting if our members sat in weet gals protected by their galaxy mates.

Drastic times call for drastic measures & to having to do something like that takes true leadership having to send members on sucide missions where we are outgunned, out numbered is just plain stupid anyone can see this.
Now any good leader would of done a tactical retreat if they had the chance now ask yourself something did we roll over & die no we carried on we just hope wolfpack could of put up more of a fight & hope we could get back in the arms race.
Many members getting hit by kill fleets we decided it was in the best interest of our members & our alliance for the future & it gave our alliance a new sense of security knowing NaR gals weren't getting targeted so much so you decide for yourselves if thats cowardly or great leadership as you can tell i'm happy with the choices made & wouldn't change them to this day.

My personal belief we were being opportunists when we went into vac mode we saw Dragons hitting Ecl & tried to make ecl the prime targets for the weekend.
Also Grog just for you ND promised members def & left our server...why?
They went against our chain of command them being cowards was not the issue if this shed some light on the matter.
Hopefully you'll understand why I am angry towards NewDawn, bitter & why I actually feel betrayed.

[Zh|l]

I dont understand the betrayle of ND to be honest.

You cant protect non-members in the form of defence fleets. You can try, but it'll be mostly pointless. ND didn't approve of going into vacation mode, the members of the alliances who did go into vacation mode only had themselves to blame for not following orders. (Although, I personally think its a lame tactic)

ND bore no responsibility for the actions of their allies - they said what any ally would have said in the situation, in that they would try and support the members who didn't want to be 'cowards'.

The cowardice is from the use of the vacation mode. There was no cowardice whatsoever in ND's actions.

[Neferti]

I must say, this whole issue is confusing me too... probably as it's being poorly understood by me. As far as I can tell, ND are being accused of being cowards in some past round because they *didn't* use vac mode?