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Unread 6 Oct 2008, 20:15   #1
Zar
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How to make some money

Yes yes, I have a reputation. I love money, I love talking about money... blah blah blah blah.

Anyway, I wish to share this with you and if this is not your sort of thing then just skip over it. If you have some appetite and have always wondered "how can I make money easily?" read below:

Right some advice:

Get a trading account/broker account, put in some cash and start investing. If you're the more risk averse type - stick to Large Caps and companies that are well capitalised.

If you've a slightly more risky complexion invest in indicies - possibly have a look at China, India, Brazil and Russia. Larger cap mining stocks are also a good bet in this catagory (BHP, RIO, VEDANTA, XSTRATA etc.)

If you have a very risky appetite, start going for smaller caps, aim companies, adr's, financial stocks (larger financials and smaller if you look around properly), junior mining companies etc.

Look to invest at every dip. Days like today are a perfect opportunity. The goal here is not to make short term profit, but medium to long term profit. Yes the markets are crumbling, yes things are looking bleak - but the underlying fact is that the markets are starting to look cheap, to look oversold. P/E ratios are ridiculously low, well capitalised companies, with good financials are being hammered and quite frankly the market is in panic mode.

Assuming no major catastrophe such as liquidity drying up completely - in the medium to longer term (1-5 years) you should make very good returns on your investments. Much much much better than sticking your savings in a bank account and cheering on the 5% or so interest you get per year.

Don't be overly concerned if your investments dip by another 10-20%. The goal here is to dip, to drip feed your investments in at every leg down. That way you aren't being forced to call the bottom, if it goes down further you haven't committed all your purchases to a higher value, and if they rise you can benefit from purchases at a higher level.

Finally remember, the goal here is investing for the medium to long term. You should be prepared to leave your money untouched for 1-2 years or more at least and not be concerned if they drop in the next few months.

Of course be aware that you should be vigilant and always keep yourself updated on what is going on. Even the most risk averse investments have risk attached to them and I wouldn't want you to take this advice without understanding that there is always risk.

These are the best times to invest and you won't get a chance like this for many more years.

Last edited by Zar; 6 Oct 2008 at 20:37.
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Unread 6 Oct 2008, 20:23   #2
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Thumbs up Re: How to make some money

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These are the best times to invest and you won't get a chance like this for many more years.
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Unread 6 Oct 2008, 20:23   #3
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Re: How to make some money

NASDAQ

(it literally can't go lower)
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Unread 6 Oct 2008, 20:38   #4
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Re: How to make some money

How do people get trading/broker accounts?
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Unread 6 Oct 2008, 20:41   #5
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Re: How to make some money

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How do people get trading/broker accounts?
There are many ways.

You can either go for some of the bigger companies such as Barclays Stockbrokers (I use them), Natwest, HSBC etc.

Or you can go for some of the smaller companies such as Hargreaves Lansdowne etc.

Opening an account is actually pretty simple and not as daunting as many people think. For example a Barclays Stockbroker account can be opened in a matter of 5-10 minutes online and one can trade immediately (with funding).

Combine with an ISA etc if necessary
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Unread 6 Oct 2008, 23:00   #6
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Re: How to make some money

It might fall a bit further.. So I would keep my money at a savings account for now if I had cash to invest.
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Unread 6 Oct 2008, 23:12   #7
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Re: How to make some money

I thought this thread would be about short-selling.
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Unread 7 Oct 2008, 00:03   #8
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Re: How to make some money

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It might fall a bit further.. So I would keep my money at a savings account for now if I had cash to invest.
capitalist swine
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Unread 7 Oct 2008, 13:32   #9
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Re: How to make some money

Which companies have you invested in (or you would if you had spare cash etc), Zar?
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Unread 7 Oct 2008, 14:49   #10
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Re: How to make some money

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Which companies have you invested in (or you would if you had spare cash etc), Zar?
I don't really do long term investing so it wouldn't make sense for me to explain what I have (I tend to trade CFD's on margin which means I pay financing and therefore I don't like to hold on to them for too long)

From the top of my head and for long term investing:

BHP Biliton - Largest diversified mining company. Mining companies have been absolutely hammered recently due to falling commodity prices and slowing demand. This might fall a bit more in volatile conditions but its medium to long term potential is great. (lesser alternatives are RIO Tinto, Xstrata and Vedanta)

Barclays, HSBC or Lloyds - Possibly the safest UK banks now... possibly and with its (Barclays) purchase of Lehmans it has a great future ahead of it (much less competition than before this mess). These will do well in the long term. Edit: A note of caution. These are still moderately risky purchases. Darling (Labour) being the idiot that he is will probably look to help recapitalise the banks (partially nationalise) which would dilute equity for the current shareholders. This could help force the share price down (as evidenced today). However after that has happened they would become good buys.

Tesco - Won't give you massive returns but is likely to be moderately up rather than down into the long term.

India/China - Purchase ETF's (Exchange Trade Funds) to get a broad overview of the index. JII (Investment Trust) for India is a good one or FXC for China. These are likely to be among the better performing indexes into the long term and probably one of the safer options (they're one of the only major countries that are actually guaranteed growth into the next few years). These two countries represent a very decent mix of growth and safety and would probably be my first recommendation to put your money with a view of holding for at least 3-5 years.

Brazil/Russia - Not as safe as the above two into the long term but still good bets. IBZL for Brazil.

Combine the above fourtogether and you can get a BRIC (Brazil Russia India China) etf.

S&P 500 - Good long term bet. US markets are likely to outperform European markets. IUSA (ETF)

I'll think of more later.

Alternatively you can invest in funds and get a fund manager to do the work for you. This is probably better for someone who is new to investing and is (usually) much less risky as you get overall exposure. I'll explain that later too.

Last edited by Zar; 7 Oct 2008 at 21:18.
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Unread 7 Oct 2008, 15:17   #11
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Re: How to make some money

http://www.easyonlineincome.org/download/PipsOnFire.pdf
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Unread 7 Oct 2008, 18:17   #12
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Re: How to make some money

I've signed up for a Natwest Stockbroker account but I haven't put any money in it yet. I'm receiving my "Golden Hello" at the end of this month (ICT is a "needed" subject so we get a bonus after a few years of teaching) so might use it for this!
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Unread 7 Oct 2008, 19:11   #13
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Re: How to make some money

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I've signed up for a Natwest Stockbroker account but I haven't put any money in it yet. I'm receiving my "Golden Hello" at the end of this month (ICT is a "needed" subject so we get a bonus after a few years of teaching) so might use it for this!
Before you put your money anywhere speak to me as circumstances might have changed.

Are you able to open a self select isa account? If so open that as you won't have to bother with tax issues then. FYI you prob wouldn't have to anyway in a normal account as you're CGT exempt upto £9,600 or something similar.
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Unread 7 Oct 2008, 19:19   #14
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Re: How to make some money

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One shouldn't FX trade without dedicating time and understanding to it. This is certainly not an option for the casual trader.
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Unread 8 Oct 2008, 07:23   #15
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Re: How to make some money

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capitalist swine

he's just putting his weight in to speed up the process
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Unread 8 Oct 2008, 21:06   #16
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Re: How to make some money

I'm sorry. My mind is still reeling from the thought of Zhukov "investing."
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Unread 9 Oct 2008, 18:21   #17
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Re: How to make some money

Why is the mining sector such a good investment right now? I don't understand that
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Unread 9 Oct 2008, 20:40   #18
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Re: How to make some money

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Why is the mining sector such a good investment right now? I don't understand that
Mining stocks have dropped around 30-60% in the last few months. They are massively off their highs and their P/E ratios (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PE_ratio) are around 6-7 for the bigger companies I named.

They are not very good short term bets as commodity prices are still falling and global growth is slowing more than expected. One thing you have to realise about stocks is that things get priced in.

Think about it like this. A trader will predict that the next six or 12 months will be bad (for the company - remember a companys value is determined by estimated future profit/assets/dividend) and will sell stocks in anticipation of this. Therefore if things continue to fall over the next 6-12 months as expected the price should remain (in theory) quite static. If in 6-12 months it is shown that things are worse than expected the price will fall further. If things are better, the price will rise. This is oversimplified but take that understanding in theory.

If we apply the same logic to mining stocks, the theory is that mining stocks have been sold quite heavily and have priced in a slow down in global growth. Therefore even if we expect that the world gdp will slow massively from last year, the equity prices might not drop that much further.

Further we know that although demand for commodities (metals) will decrease, the demand will not fall completely. There is still a lot of growth potential out there in countries like China, India etc. Once commodity prices drop to a certain level, they will bounce back (countries tend to stockpile commodities and use their surplus closer to depletion - also mining companies will produce less).

Anyway the point is that in 2-3 years things will start to bounce back. As i said before traders tend to predict future growth and therefore traders will buy back mining stocks in anticipation for future growth. In this scenario that means that mining stocks will be much much higher in 5 years (remember we're investing for the long term) than they are now. At most I think mining stocks might drop a little bit further, but they are beginning to look massively oversold now. I can't say that I can predict where the lows for mining stock are. They might be around this point or just around the corner, but we are close. Some like VED are starting to approach their NAV. That makes no sense whatsoever.

Hope that explains.
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Unread 9 Oct 2008, 22:17   #19
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Re: How to make some money

Would you recommend any type of mining or just general mining?

I've bought some shares in RBS as they dipped to 90p today and I'm hoping that in the next 12-18 months they'll go up again! Is that really dumb?
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Unread 9 Oct 2008, 22:23   #20
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Re: How to make some money

seriously, if you do not know what you are doing, don't do it.

now is probably the worst time to make (mis)educated guesses about where to invest. Goverment bonds aren't even save (well eurobonds are saver then dollarbonds but still)

so kids, don't invest, spend. consume. let keynes do his job.
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Unread 9 Oct 2008, 22:29   #21
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Re: How to make some money

i tried to invest in hockey but couldnt find any
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Unread 9 Oct 2008, 22:33   #22
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Re: How to make some money

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Originally Posted by Tomkat View Post
Would you recommend any type of mining or just general mining?

I've bought some shares in RBS as they dipped to 90p today and I'm hoping that in the next 12-18 months they'll go up again! Is that really dumb?
Risky. V. Risky.

If it pays off and RBS manages to stay afloat then you'll do extremely well out of it. RBS finished up 8% today so if you bought around 90p (which I doubt as it was auction) you've already made 8%. HOWEVER be aware that this is one of the less safe british banks around and there is a chance RBS could collapse or becoming heavily nationalised in which case you'll end up losing a fair bit of money.

This isn't a bank that should be considered a long term (rational bet). Unless you're a trader with good information this is a punt.

Two scenarios:

Scenario 1) You have spare cash and you're willing to take a punt on it. Hold. There is going to be a massive rally soon. It might only last a day or two but there will be a rally. Sell on the rally

Scenario 2) You've a nervous disposition. Sell ASAP as this could implode in a worst case scenario leaving you nursing massive losses.

Ask me next time before you invest anything and read what I wrote above yesterday (that list didn't even include RBS)!

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Originally Posted by Zar
Edit: A note of caution. These are still moderately risky purchases. Darling (Labour) being the idiot that he is will probably look to help recapitalise the banks (partially nationalise) which would dilute equity for the current shareholders. This could help force the share price down (as evidenced today). However after that has happened they would become good buys.

Last edited by Zar; 9 Oct 2008 at 22:55.
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Unread 9 Oct 2008, 22:38   #23
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Re: How to make some money

Will investing in shares make me happy?
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Unread 10 Oct 2008, 02:15   #24
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Re: How to make some money

It would make me happy if you lost your shirt. Best to consider this a win/win situation and gamble everything. (Clothes are optional but metaphorically significant.)
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Unread 10 Oct 2008, 11:07   #25
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Re: How to make some money

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomkat View Post
Would you recommend any type of mining or just general mining?

I've bought some shares in RBS as they dipped to 90p today and I'm hoping that in the next 12-18 months they'll go up again! Is that really dumb?

79.70 and trending down =(

Edit: 82.20! This is exciting stuff!

Edit Edit: 71.80

Edit edit edit: 71.70?!
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Unread 16 Oct 2008, 09:35   #26
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Re: How to make some money

RBS - Banking
Vodafone - Telecom
Rio Tinto - Mining
Shell - Oil
Tesco - Retailers

These are what ive got money in and in my opinion are fairly safe bets, im a little worried about RBS but i think it will come alright in the end.

Personaly im watching Rio pretty closley at the moment, they have seen some pretty hefty drops the past few weeks, but i would expect them to recover in the long time. I will be investing some cash their as things continue to drop.
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Unread 16 Oct 2008, 21:28   #27
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Re: How to make some money

Quote:
Originally Posted by Squishy View Post
RBS - Banking
Vodafone - Telecom
Rio Tinto - Mining
Shell - Oil
Tesco - Retailers

These are what ive got money in and in my opinion are fairly safe bets, im a little worried about RBS but i think it will come alright in the end.

Personaly im watching Rio pretty closley at the moment, they have seen some pretty hefty drops the past few weeks, but i would expect them to recover in the long time. I will be investing some cash their as things continue to drop.
RBS is pretty safe now as the government have (somewhat - pending the issue) got their hands on it, but that also makes it a poor long term investment choice. Equity will be diluted, the best employees will leave because there will be a clamp down on bonuses/pay and quite frankly no institution functions competitively or efficiently with government interference.

I've always been a fan of vodafone and trade its stock frequently (short term basis). It is sourcing a much greater part of its revenue from emerging economies now so it will be shielded from slow downs in the west. My only concern with vodafone (into the long term) is VOIP/WIMAX etc and if they will pose a threat. I don't know how these will pan out and from that technological point of view i'm hesitant.

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Unread 19 Oct 2008, 19:47   #28
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Re: How to make some money

I didn't actually invest in RBS in the end. I cancelled the trade before it went through.

The silly thing about the sudden shock is that stocks have been falling for a lot of businesses since mid-late 2007. It's only now that the media have decided to take an interest in it.
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Unread 19 Oct 2008, 20:05   #29
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Re: How to make some money

I'm thinking NASDAQ and companies like Sun/Oracle/Intel/AMD

any thoughts Zar?
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Unread 19 Oct 2008, 20:52   #30
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Re: How to make some money

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zar View Post
My only concern with vodafone (into the long term) is VOIP/WIMAX etc and if they will pose a threat. I don't know how these will pan out and from that technological point of view i'm hesitant.
Vodafone Malta has rolled out a WiMAX system to cover the whole island and is using a complementary VoIP solution on the system.

How do I know? We sold it to them.
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Unread 21 Oct 2008, 19:28   #31
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Re: How to make some money

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Originally Posted by lokken View Post
I'm thinking NASDAQ and companies like Sun/Oracle/Intel/AMD

any thoughts Zar?
I don't know much about the other three but avoid AMD. They have been losing a lot of money, having trouble with new products, and seem to have a fairly crap management team.
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