so, the english are raping again

[MrL_JaKiri]

Originally Posted by Perle

wicki is saying something about vercingetorix having used it against cesar

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scorched_earth

I'm also pretty sure that the Greeks used it against the Persians when they invaded in 5BC.

[Ste]

Originally Posted by Perle

ahhh this is so frustrating. defending our interest. using euphimism to cover up massslaughter, armed robery and tyranny over other people. Actually you are right, my list of battles are really pure CRAP. i should have instead listed a much better list of the invading and killing lwhich were not even on that list. the list is crap, ill make a new one. It will take some time, but it wont be so easily dissmissable

I await your list.

so??? does that make the sloughters and killings of the aboriginess ,maorees , chinese ,any less grave???

No, But it puts it in perspective.

I know you intentionally misinterpret the sentence because you do not lkike what i am saying. The stress of that sentence lies on the word THAT. Meaning that i do not claim to know history so well to know every ruler of every country in every country of the world. but of course, its really easy to dismiss someone by being a pedant and not actually facing the facts.

Actually i realised you could have meant it that way about 30 mins later. You should have emphasised the that using italics or bold or something. The thing is - your knowledge of history is up against a lot of people here who's knowledge is far greater. And there is not one single person backing you up. Does that strike you as odd?
Are we all wrong and you're right?

please put your money were your mouth is. id like you to quote me once and show me where i made that claim!!!!
the other empires in the last 1000 years were not as bad as the english. tell me how many times was there a war between afghanistan and britain now??? 4 ****ing times!!!!!!!
how long were the english robbong iraq??? 40 ****ing years!!!!

how many other european countries have that record with those 2 countries alone??? none!!!!

Ah, so, because Britain has been involved in battles in Afghanistan and Iraq more than other European countries that makes us the worst bunch of people ever? I like the way you narrowed it down to just european countries now as well. USA? Russia? Mongolia? Ottomans? They've all attacked that area a number of times.

tell you, what. let us make a list. forget about the wars between the european powers. lets make a list of the countries/people invaded/assaulted/robbed by those empires and lets see who has done the most shall we???

So which countries are we talking about now? And why does it make a difference if they're in Europe or not?

but hey, i know, you wont do it
why??? you dont like losing!!

Yeh, I'm an Aries, apparently we don't like losing.
If you could strip your posts of Hyperbole, exaggeration, emotive comments and simple falsehoods, then maybe we could have a proper discussion.
But hey, I know you wont do it.
why??? because you're an idiot who has no idea how to put forward a decent argument.

In fact - What is your argument?

put your money where your mouth is, make a list

I haven't got time now, revision to do. I'm sure one of the other guys would be happy to assist in your historical understanding though.

Oh and keep off the personal abuse - you may be heading for a ban.

[Perle]

Originally Posted by demiGOD

ah! the romans pioneered it then.. 1st recorded anyway.. but although not recorded on your reference, i remember seeing on some text somewhere that one of the barbaric techniques of the mongols against china was the scorched earth policy - i'm sure the english/scots used this tactic too, and the later dynasties of china and japan during conflicts with rebellion groups and such

but then again, popularized by modern war histories because of the more technological capabilities of the modern world

ehh no, as i understood the text, the gauls used it agains cesar. and by trhe way, the mongols way of fighting was damn effective.

[Perle]

Originally Posted by Stew

Wow, the 50th worst film EVER!

what did you expect. christopher lambert in the leading role hehehe

[Ste]

Originally Posted by Perle

ehh no, as i understood the text, the gauls used it agains cesar. and by trhe way, the mongols way of fighting was damn effective.

But brutal and bloody. or were the Mongols nice guys?

[Perle]

Originally Posted by Ste

But brutal and bloody. or were the Mongols nice guys?

the mongols kiled lotsa people in iran. but strangely enough, they left almost nothing of their culture. when the arabs invaded irran, they destroyed alot of our culture and brought islam. the mongols on the other hand , seemed not interested in spreading their culture at all.
the mongols were not nice guys. the only people ever that managed to invade russia and actually conquer it. chingiz khans conquest is still a big mytery to me. how could a guy conquer and establish such a huge empire in just one lifetime?? the mongols had only 700000 people and they defeated so many people.

[demiGOD]

Originally Posted by Perle

ehh no, as i understood the text, the gauls used it agains cesar. and by trhe way, the mongols way of fighting was damn effective.

ah you are right! gauls against them - and i agree with the mongols, very effective indeed, very mean people also, heh..

[Gumbie]

If all these countries are so ****ed up, they'd have left the commonwealth under the Queen, right? Right? The Aussies are thinking about it, but the strength of opposition to the move kind of indicates that the world doesn't hate Britain at all.
Also, having spent time working in an orphanage in China (Tianjin sp?), I thought I may as well use some of my power and advancements to help the less fortunate. I currently have a 6 year old Chinese sister (working on getting her English though), whos life Western medicine has saved from a critical heart defect.
Oh wait, I'm stealing babies

Screw you punk.

[queball]

I thought this would be a thread about Dizzee Rascal.

[Marilyn Manson]

Let us therefore brace ourselves to our duty, and so bear ourselves, that if the British Empire and her Commonwealth should last for a thousand years, men will still say "Perle was a total wanker."

[NibNub]

Originally Posted by Perle

if my ancestors were invloved in such brutal wars and acts of aggression i would be ashamed.

You've got a list too!!

And considering it only starts in 934 and the Persian State in one form or another has existed for almost 2000 years before that it lets you off lightly.

This is a german site and hence is utterly reliable.


http://www.zum.de/whkmla/military/ce.../milxiran.html


This list probably includes many defensive wars and conflicts but so did ours.

You may like to note however, the NUMEROUS invasions and incursions into Afghanistan (many more than four).

As you can see most of your wars were against your neighbours while we threw our weight around across the globe - well, we had better ships - Tough 5h1t.

So ARE YOU ASHAMED OF YOUR HISTORY?

I wouldnt be - theres a damn sight more to Persian history than wafare as i'm sure you are aware. For me to insist that all Persians should announce that they are ashamed because Persia committed atrocities and undertook numerous wars of conquest is utterly pointless and ridiculous.


BTW: US presidents without UK Ancestry include Van Bueren and the Roosevelts - yeah i know - not very many.

[max_vix]

Perle - early 1800's we go and save Portugal and Spain from France

1939-45 go and save France from Germany and at one point are practicvally the only country opposing Hitler.

1982 - go and retake the Fawkland Islands from Argentina. If we were truly evil as you believe - wouldn't we have gone and invaded Argentina?

And to answer your original post - of course no empire has ever caused so much bloodshed. We had the biggest empire so pretty obviously we are gonna cause the most bloodshed....

I could cite many more examples if I wasn't in such a rush...

early 2000's save Iraq from a nasty dictator

[Perle]

Originally Posted by NibNub

You've got a list too!!

And considering it only starts in 934 and the Persian State in one form or another has existed for almost 2000 years before that it lets you off lightly.

This is a german site and hence is utterly reliable.


http://www.zum.de/whkmla/military/ce.../milxiran.html


This list probably includes many defensive wars and conflicts but so did ours.

You may like to note however, the NUMEROUS invasions and incursions into Afghanistan (many more than four).

As you can see most of your wars were against your neighbours while we threw our weight around across the globe - well, we had better ships - Tough 5h1t.

So ARE YOU ASHAMED OF YOUR HISTORY?

I wouldnt be - theres a damn sight more to Persian history than wafare as i'm sure you are aware. For me to insist that all Persians should announce that they are ashamed because Persia committed atrocities and undertook numerous wars of conquest is utterly pointless and ridiculous.


BTW: US presidents without UK Ancestry include Van Bueren and the Roosevelts - yeah i know - not very many.

hello, I havent had the time to make a list yet. responding to your post: did you even take the time to look at that list???

lets see it ok???

Wars affecting Iran 945-1258
Buyid Conquest of Shiraz
Buyid conquest of Baghdad; Buyid Dynasty ruled western Iran, Azerbaijan, Iraq
Buyids took Mosul
Buyid Dynasty Succession Struggles
Uqaylid Arabs took Mosul from Buyids
Ghaznavids took Khorasan from Samanids
Rayy (near Tehran) fell to the Ghaznavids (previously Buyid)
Seljuk Turks entered Khorasan
Seljuk Turks took Nishapur
Seljuk Turks defeated Ghaznavids in Battle of Dandanqan, annexed Khorasan
Seljuk Turks conquered Rayy area from Ghaznavids
Seljuk Turks conquered Isfahan area
Seljuk Turks took Baghdad (hitherto Buyid)
Seljuk Turks took Shiraz (hitherto Buyid)
Seljujk victory over Byzantinians in Battle of Mantzikert
Qara Qitai defeated Seljuks in Battle of Qatwan
Ghurids destroyed Ghazna
Seljuk Shah killed in battle against Khwarizm Shah
Khwarizm Shah conquered Ghurid possessions in Afghanistan, eastern Iran
First Mongol Raid of Iran
Mongol conquest of Isfahan
Mongol Raid of Anatolia: Seljuk Sultanate of Rum submitted
Mongol Conquest of remainder of Iran, and of Iraq

is there even one atttack by the persians on that list???? seljik turks, arabs and mongols were invading iran and the neighbouring countries. what the hell does that have to do with iranian aggression????

the persian people were under foreign rule during that time!!!!!
the invasions you see are by the seljic urks, arabs and mongols, not from persians


for the rest of your list , it isnt much better

iran became independant only in 1503 under the safawids. so lets take a look at the years after that:

Portuguese capture of Hormuz (big aggression)
Portuguese capture of Hormuz (another aggression)
Uzbeks conquered Herat, Khorasan (i should be ashamed of this??)
Safavids conquered Diyarbakir, Baghdad, Iraq
Safavids conquered Herat, Khorasan from Uzbeks (so we got herat back after the uzbeks invaded it, big agression oooooh)
Safavid defeat at hands of Ottomans in Battle of Chaldiran; loss of territory in E. Anatolia
Repulsion of 5 Uzbek invasions into Khorasan (i should be ashamed of this??, defending the own province???)
Ottoman-Persian War; Baghdad conquered by Ottomans in 1534, Basra in 1546
Safavid conquest of Qandahar, from Mughal Empire
Ottoman-Persian War; Ottoman conquest of Azerbaijan
Rebels ousted Shah Muhammad Khudabanda, enthroned his son Abbas(i should be ashamed of this??)
Qandahar lost to Mughal Empire
Victory over Uzbeks; Herat regained ( there you go, they got it back)
Ottoman-Persian War, loss of Azerbaijan, Caucasus area to Persians
Ottoman-Persian War
Safavids took Hormuz from Portuguese (sorry to defeat the invaders, how aggresive)
Qandahar gained from Mughal Empire(war with the mughals)
Ottoman-Persian War
Qandahar lost to Mughal Empire
Qandahar regained from Mughal Empire
Qandahar lost to the Ghilzay Afghans
Afghan conquest of Isfahan; Safavid Dynasty terminated (look at this, the afghans conquer a city deep in iran)
Russian invasion(bad persians how aggresive of them)
Ottoman-Persian War; Ottoman occupation of Georgia, Azerbaijan, Shirvan (bad persians how aggresive of them)
Expulsion of the Afghans and reunification of Persia by Nadir Shah(i should be ashamed of this?? )
Ottoman-Persian War; Azerbaijan lost to Persia (bad persians how aggresive of them)

wao very aggresive persians, these are all battles between the mughals, uzbeks and the ottoman empire with the safawids. You cant call them atrocities and aggression. the struggle between these 4 powers in the middle east was marked by war in the hotspots of afghanistan, azerbaidjan and the place we know today (thanks to british meddling) as iraq.
Herat, the city that was so often invaded by iran and the uzbeks has always been a pesian stronghold. still today, it has very close ties to iran. lots of its inhabitants were or are persians.

Originally Posted by NibNub

You may like to note however, the NUMEROUS invasions and incursions into Afghanistan (many more than four).

afghanistan was between the 3 fighting powers(the safawids, mughals and the uzbeks) the numerous invasions mostly concerned herat and quandeharr. Herat used to be a persian city, you cant call the iranians aggressors for wanting to recapture their city from the uzbek invaders. what kind of a logic is that??.
and afghanistan is a neighbouring country. it isnt 1000s of kilometres away from us.



lets see the rest ok??

Persian Occupation of Oman
Persian Occupation of Oman
Invasion of Afghanistan, Punjab, sack of Delhi
Expedition against the Uzbeks
Ottoman-Persian War
Bukhara seceded from Persian Empire
Persian force conquered Fort Mosselstein on Kharg Island from the V.O.C.
Ottoman-Persian War; temporary Persian occupation of Basra
Qajars defeated, terminated Zand Dynasty in Iran, Afshar Dynasty in Khorasan
War with Russia
Afghan-Persian War
Ottoman-Persian War
War with Russia
War with Afghanistan
Persian occupation of Herat, followed by a British invasion of southern Iran
Herat lost to Afghanistan
Anti-Baha'i Riots in Isfahan, Yazd
Persian Revolution

as you can see , the only thing that could be called an aggression is the invasion of india and the sack of dehli. this was to finally defeat the mughals which we were in war with for several decades.

Ithe iranian list of aggression is not nearly 1/3 of that of the british. and we have been a power since 2500 years.

And yes, my countrymen have done alot of things which i am very ashamed of. the oppression of the kurds and the azerbaijan minority being one of those.

[Perle]

ooops double post

[Richie987]

Originally Posted by Marilyn Manson

"Perle was a total wanker."

Encore.