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Unread 23 Jun 2004, 15:16   #51
Treveler
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Re: 1up on top!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Fish
heh, so alliances should try to take down bigger alliances than themselves solo? yeah, good one.
Ehhh, do you think there is only one alliance out there that wants to win besides 1up?

LCH and mistu can for example focus on 1up without having an agreement. This does however mean that balls bigger then the size of a peanut is required.
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Unread 23 Jun 2004, 15:19   #52
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Re: 1up on top!!

so if you were MISTU HC, and wanted to take down 1up, you wouldnt ask the help of LCH etc?
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Unread 23 Jun 2004, 15:23   #53
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Re: 1up on top!!

Not if I had made an agreement not to block pre tickstart. Mistu and LCH would of course be a too massive force for 1up to fight alone and we all know what that leads too.
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Unread 23 Jun 2004, 15:46   #54
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Re: 1up on top!!

Not if they bash them for a few days, and break up again. Fluid politics = the win, everyone solo = :zzz:
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Unread 23 Jun 2004, 15:58   #55
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Re: 1up on top!!

I doubt 1up will just sit by and do nothing while being bashed for a few days by a block.
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Unread 23 Jun 2004, 16:38   #56
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Re: 1up on top!!

Thing is Fish it'll never be fluid politics, a few days will become a few weeks and then you may wel do it for the rest of the round but I agree everyone solo is indeed boring.
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Unread 23 Jun 2004, 16:42   #57
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Re: 1up on top!!

PA was only interesting when everyone took it seriously and we were all right ****s about it too
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Unread 23 Jun 2004, 20:00   #58
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Re: 1up on top!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Fish
Not if they bash them for a few days, and break up again. Fluid politics = the win, everyone solo = :zzz:
This would then give everyone else a license to block though. If a hypothetical Mistu/LCH block did form, it's more likely that other alliances would form blocks too. After all, if Mistu/LCH defeat 1up, the other alliances would be foolish if they did not cooperate to make sure Mistu/LCH don't do it to them too.

A license to block may not be such a bad thing, though. It would certainly reduce the time needed for an alliance to become dominant, and would place more emphasis on political astuteness, and possibly duplicity and backstabbing. These were all fun components of past rounds, although many people objected to them.

tbh, most of the top 10 alliances are fairly close together. Any block between two of these top 10 alliances would easily be the most powerful force in the game. Therefore, they're merely more likely to make themselves targets for further blocking.

A further point is that nobody really wants to be at the forefront of a block war. It didn't do Xanadu and Fury any good in r6, nor did it do Legion and Fury any good in r4. It's often far better to sit back, watch the fireworks, then make your move at the right time. Being the first one over the cliff is normally a bad idea (unless you're hirr, in which case very little of the above applies ).
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Unread 23 Jun 2004, 23:45   #59
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Re: 1up on top!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Fish
Not if they bash them for a few days, and break up again. Fluid politics = the win, everyone solo = :zzz:
Lol.. U just started this game?
The 2 bashing alliances would ofcourse not want the same thing to happen to them and would stay on friendly terms.

Asking for everyone to block up and destroy whomever is #1 this week is stupid tho, that policy would lead to blocking as #2 knowing he'd be next to go would make good friends with #3.. and maybe even #4.
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Unread 24 Jun 2004, 00:28   #60
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Re: 1up on top!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ComradeRob
tbh, most of the top 10 alliances are fairly close together. Any block between two of these top 10 alliances would easily be the most powerful force in the game. Therefore, they're merely more likely to make themselves targets for further blocking.
I agree with most of your post, but surely it is a tad early to determine the above?
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Unread 24 Jun 2004, 01:38   #61
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Re: 1up on top!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazyConrad
Get a life ffs :/

WAY FOR 1up!!!! They are so much more 1337 on initiating roids...
what? this cannot be true
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Unread 24 Jun 2004, 02:26   #62
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Re: 1up on top!!

1up have not initiated any roids. That is FAnG propoganda.

Honest.
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Unread 24 Jun 2004, 06:42   #63
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Re: 1up on top!!

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what? this cannot be true
BUT IT IS!!!
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Unread 24 Jun 2004, 14:05   #64
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Re: 1up on top!!

bash them!
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Unread 24 Jun 2004, 14:41   #65
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Re: 1up on top!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Fish
heh, so alliances should try to take down bigger alliances than themselves solo? yeah, good one.
Would just like to remind you all, going from the members who have been added, and now removed on the alliance member numbers, 1up are actually the 2nd smallest alliance in the top 5 atm, there is no reason why anyone should block, we are doing nothing different than what anyone here could do, we are not cheating, we have not blocked to kill our allies, the only difference is, we are active and we are playing to the best of our abilities, or so I think anyway.

Now please can someone close the thread as imo it is only trying to incite flaming and perhaps a block against 1up, and that would only ruin what so far has been a decent game of pa.
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Unread 24 Jun 2004, 16:30   #66
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Re: 1up on top!!

Mav, be serious, alliances want to win. You expect 1up, who are soon to be miles ahead of the chasing pack, to be not blocked against? You want people to hand it to you on a plate, like LDK had it in 9.5?

No-one is accusing you of anything, but letting the top alliance stay top without fighting them is surely what you'd expect?

Note: This is in no way representative on ND's views.
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Unread 24 Jun 2004, 16:34   #67
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Re: 1up on top!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Fish
Mav, be serious, alliances want to win. You expect 1up, who are soon to be miles ahead of the chasing pack, to be not blocked against? You want people to hand it to you on a plate, like LDK had it in 9.5?

No-one is accusing you of anything, but letting the top alliance stay top without fighting them is surely what you'd expect?

Note: This is in no way representative on ND's views.
No, what I said was simple, most alliances outnumber us memberbase size, so there is no possible way that none of you can not catch up if you put more effort in, Im not trying to protect 1up here, but the game in general, we do not need to see any more blocks.
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Unread 24 Jun 2004, 16:36   #68
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Re: 1up on top!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mav
No, what I said was simple, most alliances outnumber us memberbase size, so there is no possible way that none of you can not catch up if you put more effort in, Im not trying to protect 1up here, but the game in general, we do not need to see any more blocks.
a totally solo round would be very very boring. Blocks are good for the game, they make it interesting, overblocking, is bad. FPM's dominance last round was very bad for the game, people chopping and changing allies throughout a round is the ideal situation. See R6.
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Unread 24 Jun 2004, 18:22   #69
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Re: 1up on top!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Fish
a totally solo round would be very very boring. Blocks are good for the game, they make it interesting, overblocking, is bad. FPM's dominance last round was very bad for the game, people chopping and changing allies throughout a round is the ideal situation. See R6.
You're kidding me right....please tell me you are....
The_Fish name one round apart from r6 that your members enjoyed because in r9 I know your members hated the fact they were losing.
Blocks are for losers imo & as for how 1up got there ranking well that comes down to how hard we are trying if others can't be arsed putting in time to ensure they win or alteast do well.
Heres a example for you if you have a football match which consists of two teams.
Team A & Team B if team A plays harder than team B why shouldn't team A win?
Blocks are only fun if you are on the winning side.
1UP could have blocked but we never & i'm sure you would whine & say how blocks are bad.
If you look at the uni you will see many alliances changing places by the day which shows you how fluid the game is how many ND members you hear complaining?
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Unread 24 Jun 2004, 19:37   #70
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Re: 1up on top!!

I've had fun every round except r7 tbh, but that's not the point here. We all agree that big bad blocks like WTFVE in r5 and FPM last round are bad. But it's not so bad if those blocks change during the round as we then get fluid politics. From what I've seen isn't that what 1up ultimately wants? A round where the winner isn't decided untill the fat lady sings. Atleast that's what I want .

As for your football analogy, how many times haven't you seen the a team get lucky and win or draw vs an opponent that played much better?
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Unread 24 Jun 2004, 20:20   #71
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Re: 1up on top!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Fish
Mav, be serious, alliances want to win. You expect 1up, who are soon to be miles ahead of the chasing pack, to be not blocked against? You want people to hand it to you on a plate, like LDK had it in 9.5?

No-one is accusing you of anything, but letting the top alliance stay top without fighting them is surely what you'd expect?

Note: This is in no way representative on ND's views.
We're not miles away from the decent allies.. And aslong as round stays without blocks I doubt anyone will get miles ahead of each other. And imo we need the start to be without blocking for start of the round. Kinda reminds me of round 4. Where first part of the round was just roiding and getting big. A block war right out of protection is just gay, and 2/3 of most alliances members will get bashed and give up, or stay alive but just don't care for the rest of the round. So the longer we can keep the round without blocking.. the more exciting the end will be. The different alliances will easier be able to hold their own and manage to put up a better fight.
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Unread 24 Jun 2004, 20:39   #72
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Re: 1up on top!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ComradeRob
Am I the only one who saw the original post as a joke?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Achilles
I think Villeh himself admitted it was a troll, albeit one in good humour. I only joined the thread to object to DF's mindless drivel.

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Unread 24 Jun 2004, 21:15   #73
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Re: 1up on top!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Fish
Mav, be serious, alliances want to win. You expect 1up, who are soon to be miles ahead of the chasing pack, to be not blocked against? You want people to hand it to you on a plate, like LDK had it in 9.5?

No-one is accusing you of anything, but letting the top alliance stay top without fighting them is surely what you'd expect?
Surely you are capable of fighting without a block behind you?

Secondly, 1up aren't that far ahead of everyone else. If any of the top 10 alliances blocked now, their combined score would be well in excess of 1up's score. And by your logic, the only way 1up can fight back is by making a block too... pretty soon we have the old arms race to see who can get the most allies, then a week-long fight to see who got the most allies, followed by the winning side roiding their gullible weaker partners.

I can see your point - it would be foolishness in the extreme to allow any alliance to simply accelerate away from everyone else (funny how nobody listened when I said that about LDK in r9.5 though ). But I think it would be jumping the gun to start talking about blocks just three days out of protection. Any block formed now would itself be the #1 power, and so it would quite probably lead to counter-blocks. As an example, if Mistu and LCH were to block, they would be a threat not just to 1up but also to Vision, FAnG, ND, Rock and so on. Even if 1up didn't form a counter-block, I find it hard to imagine those other alliances sitting by whilst the Mistu/LCH block becomes the dominant force. (this is a completely hypothetical example, not based on any real Mistu/LCH block).

Blocks should only be used when they are necessary for an alliance to compete. They are quite clearly not necessary now, and probably won't be necessary for some time. When the only way for the #2 alliance to catch the #1 alliance is to form a block, then it might just be necessary.
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Unread 24 Jun 2004, 22:58   #74
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Re: 1up on top!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Fish
a totally solo round would be very very boring. Blocks are good for the game, they make it interesting, overblocking, is bad. FPM's dominance last round was very bad for the game, people chopping and changing allies throughout a round is the ideal situation. See R6.
PA does not have the memberbase for a "fun" block war, and that is why blocking will ruin the round.
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Unread 24 Jun 2004, 23:25   #75
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Re: 1up on top!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
PA was only interesting when everyone took it seriously and we were all right ****s about it too
Best post in the entire thread, just go for the victory and **** everyone else over with blocks, politics, lies, backstabbing and general evilness.

The universe isn't big enough to have morals.
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Unread 25 Jun 2004, 03:50   #76
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Re: 1up on top!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ComradeRob
Surely you are capable of fighting without a block behind you?
Be serious, would you really expect ND to defeat 1up 1v1?

player for player, 1up have the best memberbase in the Uni, and letting them get bigger than everyone else is just silly.

My views are clear, I dont want massive block wars, but then a round completely solo would be boring. There IS a middleground, and we would make this the most interesting round, politics wise, since R6.

Also, it seems only 1up members are posting here to say they dont want any blocks. Which seems coincidental, as they are Number 1, on average score and total score.
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Unread 25 Jun 2004, 03:53   #77
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Re: 1up on top!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Fish
Be serious, would you really expect ND to defeat 1up 1v1?

player for player, 1up have the best memberbase in the Uni, and letting them get bigger than everyone else is just silly.

My views are clear, I dont want massive block wars, but then a round completely solo would be boring. There IS a middleground, and we would make this the most interesting round, politics wise, since R6.

Also, it seems only 1up members are posting here to say they dont want any blocks. Which seems coincidental, as they are Number 1, on average score and total score.
It is clear you have not listended at all...

1. The scores are not that far apart at all.
2. Even 2 alliances Vs 1 would cause the uni to get allies, and it would effectivly double the oppositions score.

And most importantly....

3. PA is no longer big enough for your round 6 block "fantasies".

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Unread 25 Jun 2004, 10:21   #78
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Re: 1up on top!!

Clearly, you are either a retard, or you didnt read what I wrote. Have another go fella
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Unread 25 Jun 2004, 10:36   #79
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Re: 1up on top!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Fish
Be serious, would you really expect ND to defeat 1up 1v1?
No, I don't. I do think that ND could put a reasonable amount of pressure on any top 10 alliance, including 1up. At this stage of the game, such pressure would be enough to slow down the growth of the larger alliance - the extra incoming would force resources to be spent on defensive ships, and would tie fleets up defending, not to mention the roids lost on attacks which could not be defended. Bearing in mind that 1up already receive incoming from other alliances, I think the effect of a war with ND could be enough to allow other alliances to overtake 1up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Fish
player for player, 1up have the best memberbase in the Uni, and letting them get bigger than everyone else is just silly.
Memberbase quality judgements are difficult to make. There are plenty of other alliances capable of winning this round, so while I agree with your point, I would extend it to include any alliance which reaches the #1 spot. 1up aren't intrinsically better than anyone else; rather than trying to judge member quality, we should use the objective method of judging alliance strength provided to us - the alliance ranking page.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Fish
My views are clear, I dont want massive block wars, but then a round completely solo would be boring. There IS a middleground, and we would make this the most interesting round, politics wise, since R6.
I agree in principle, but I think we differ on precisely how to achieve this.

First of all, I think that it's too soon to consider block formation now. A block comprising of any two top 10 alliances would immediately be the most powerful force in the game. The only possible reaction of other alliances would be to form a counter-block, and I don't see how that helps anyone.

Let's remind ourselves what a block entails - at the very least, attack coordination. Perhaps a NAP, which would require coord exchanges. Even attack coordination would reveal the block members' coords to each other via news scans of booked galaxies. Such cooperation requires a bond of trust which is not made easily, and is not broken easily either. I doubt that many major alliances would give their coords list over to someone who may become an enemy a week later. Once the block has formed, the cost of leaving the block can become higher than the cost of remaining within it.

Besides, it's perfectly possible for you to target 1up or anyone else, without a block. As I said earlier, a war would slow a top alliance down significantly; if you want to stop 1up racing away with the lead then you don't need a block to do so. Of course, that might require some courage, and it would be easier to just persuade everyone else to do it for you, but if you really want to do something, you can.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Fish
Also, it seems only 1up members are posting here to say they dont want any blocks. Which seems coincidental, as they are Number 1, on average score and total score.
We were posting that when we had less than 10 members, so it's not like we are being opportunistic in opposing blocks.

Besides, I don't see how blocks would necessarily be bad for 1up. In fact, I think a block would be an excellent way of keeping the #1 spot secure. I've commanded alliances which have been part of blocks in the past, and block politics really is extremely easy. I'd go so far as to say that a round with blocks actually makes 1up more likely to win than a round without one (fortunately I don't get to make those kinds of decisions, so we won't be forming any blocks ).
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Unread 25 Jun 2004, 14:59   #80
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Re: 1up on top!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Fish
Clearly, you are either a retard, or you didnt read what I wrote. Have another go fella
I read what you said, but the same applies, even if ND allied someone, then it would still knock 1up off the top spot by a good few millions of points, causing others to get allies and thus you end up with another crap round.

Every action has a consequence.
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