(another) new race idea (!)

[-Blue Moon-]

Resurrection race

Special ability: 25%(e.g.) deaths are recouped (if 100 ships die, 25 ships will return home alive again)
No salvage (to compensate for special ability)
Maybe: a specific Salvage ship (to compensate for zero salvage) edit: perhaps another way to do it is to have a ship which specialises in resurrecting killed enemy ships instead?
Ships are usually mid-sized (i.e. few, if any, FI and BS)
Slowest non-steal inits (i.e. nothing before init 10) edit: The 'Res' type ships would have inits of 10+ with high armour and high damage (advancement of terrans) whereas the 'norm ships could have extremely low inits (e.g. 3) for low armour and low damage (a downgrade of xans)

This way it also seems 'realistic' because they may have copied the Xan design but added more speed (at the cost of removing guns/weight), and they have copied terran designs but made them slower (by adding more guns/weight) - if we presume guns as a leading indicator on a ship's hypothetical weight and speed

All ships are ‘Norm’ or* new class: ‘Res’ to distinguish their difference edit and*
Higher costs per unit (so that it hurts when you actually lose units)

High inits for Res class ships
High armour per cost (like terrans – 60ish range) Res type only
High damage per cost (like xan – 50ish range)Res type only

Low inits for Norm class ships
Low armour per cost (like xan – 35ish range)
Low damage per cost (like Ter – 35ish range)

Production bonus -2 (to allow them to rebuild* fleets fast) edit:build fleets fast, to compensate for no salvage
Construction Penalty -1 [base: 13] (cannot easily be used as a quick dist/amp race)
Research Penalty -10% (to compensate for their ability and to slow ship researches)
Stealth level of 80% (kinda hard not to notice a resurrected corpse coming at you)
Cov-ops bonus +5 alertness (kinda hard to ‘blend in’ with them)

I can’t think of a good name, I do like Perriwinkle though….. wait no, just kidding…

Ideas/love/hate/suggestions?

-tux

[jerome]

i'd rather have the salvage resources than some ships back to be honest with you, and surely a resurrection race wouldn't be relying on 'rebuilding fast' especially if they get no salvage without a special ship

[-Blue Moon-]

yeah ok, but in my mind it's there to offset the slow inits compared to their resurrecting abilities - and if they had a salvage ship which could be slotted into one of their attack fleets instead of, or in the same method as, a structure killer could be, then it would nullify the zero-salvage aspect of the race (if they wanted to use their ship building resources to gain potential salvage)

I would imagine that this would be a good race for new players (off-hand) because even if they got completely bashed or crashed their fleets they would get a small rebate on their attack fleets (instead of salvage?) - I was just wondering what people thought about the general concept of 'resurrection' as a new ship type/race to the game?

-tux

[Mighteh]

ooh...
thats so Warhammer necrons...

slow and steady, untill they eventually res their way into the heart of your base and bring on da hurt !

i like the idea, it defo has to be tweaked...
with 60 Armor and 50 power, theyre gonna be pretty cheap ships... and init must not be always 10, or everybody will go visit them for some roids...
it does have to be lower then most, but probably not much lower then ter, with some ships shoting before their respective main targets (ie. def ships shoot before the ship that targets them in attack fleet they are designed to def against.)

[-Blue Moon-]

Originally Posted by Mighteh

i like the idea, it defo has to be tweaked...
with 60 Armor and 50 power, theyre gonna be pretty cheap ships... and init must not be always 10, or everybody will go visit them for some roids...

well.... i think you're prolly right about the init10 thing, there's gotta be a couple 'faster' ships to allow them to defend some fleets...

i've just become aware that you're right - with high dpc and apc ratings they will be cheap, by expensive ships i meant more like - a regular fighter you would imagine costs between 200-2000 of each resource, i thought it might be interesting to make them almost double that or something - this way it seems like they cost more because they will have less ships, and when one dies they really 'feel' it. The plus side is, if a whole bunch die, having them returned will make a happy difference.

Thanks for the input Mighteh

[Heartless]

Against it, for obvious reasons.

[Pilgrim]

Originally Posted by Heartless

Against it, for obvious reasons.

such as, i should have expected a shit quote like this from you heartless

I think 4 races was plenty 5 and now maybe 6? Blimey!

[Mighteh]

he thinks his idea is shit because it contradicts his idea. tbfh both are about as viable as a dead hamster... but hey, we got a new race... who knows what changes future brings

[voodoo]

any change would be good. any new approach is welcome. as long as its ballanced and well thought through.

havent read the post, only replied to the title

[Heartless]

Originally Posted by Mighteh

he thinks his idea is shit because it contradicts his idea. tbfh both are about as viable as a dead hamster... but hey, we got a new race... who knows what changes future brings

Not quite. I could actually live with another bunch of races added. The reason I am against it, and why I considered it obvious, is that tuxed0 is taking a cheap shot at the unbalanced design of the Etraides. He suggest a just as imbalanced race because it prefers his personal opinion of a perfect as opposed to other races available.

While I do see his issue with Etraides (or wtf they are spelled, who cares), it is certainly the wrong way to suggest implementation of even more of such non-desigend races. Instead it would be better to either address the issues Etraides bring into the game, or to address the issues of the current race / ship stat setup.

[Makhil]

I like the idea, but not the explanation. Ships being blown to bits and resurrecting out of nowhere is hurting my brain.
I'd prefer a 'hollow' race. Their special ability would be to generate hollow ships. Hollow ships divert the enemy fire.
This race could also have the ability to generate hollow roids...

[-Blue Moon-]

Originally Posted by Heartless

Not quite. I could actually live with another bunch of races added. The reason I am against it, and why I considered it obvious, is that tuxed0 is taking a cheap shot at the unbalanced design of the Etraides. He suggest a just as imbalanced race because it prefers his personal opinion of a perfect as opposed to other races available.

Wrong. I was actually thinking of this idea on the 23rd when I got a bad headache and 'rose' up from my bed and thought "hey that's like how zombies resurrect"... then I thought, "why hasn't anyone thought of this as an idea for a race?"

I have absolutely no problem with the Eitraides, there's nothing wrong with them (asides from the name :P) and I've never publically criticised them. Heartless is wrong (no offense, I can see why you might think this, i have been severeley publically bashing the Xan stats).

The race would obviously need to be balanced well against the others - but the most interesting thing that comes to mind is that with 6 races that means 12 roiding fleets - which has the potential for 2 roiding fleets per class - which would be A LOT easier to balance (e.g. Ter DE could hit Ter, but Zik DE couldn't) ... alternating through the races.

If you want an explanation here goes:
We could presume that these ships are remotely operated, and that their destruction is never absolute - instead we could imagine that say, 25% (which is only a rough guess) have been damaged extensively and have lost their coms towers, or have had their mainframe severeley battered - but these 25%, unlike the other 75% which just explode, can be helped by the other ships who can do a quick fix and upload the operating system onto those partially damaged ships.

If you wanted to, you have the potential to add the need to 'repair' a ship, at a fixed cost increasing per class : (e.g. fixed 10%, or fi=500,co=1000,fr=1500, etc...) - but in that case it means they need to spend more on repairs and would obviously need salvage.

edit: there's the potential to have an option sent to the ruler for these ships in need to repair (once they get home) which could be 'repair the ships for 10% of the original cost' or 'salvage them' - this way if they dont want to take advantage of repairing they can have the salvage(?)

Just basic ideas - but I was thinking more indepth, and have updated the original post to reflect it....

-tux

[Lei~]

Sounds like an good idea.
Might be cool to make it possible for them to ressurect enemy units if any got killed. To give them a stealing option to a certain extent. Theyll have to kill and ressurrect tho. 2 steps instead of one as for ziks. And if resurecting enemy ships they die. Because they have to take out the enemy ships personnel and have to leave some pilots behind.

[-Blue Moon-]

now thats good thinking lei... the SK ship could even be removed in favour of a ship 'resurrector' which specialises in resurrecting dead ships (limited by its value of course), maybe thats something that could be added instead of the salvage ship..


i'll update my original thread to reflect this
keep the ideas/comments coming

-tux

[Rc mayhem]

We don't want more races. I remember starting a different game years ago that had lots of races and to a novice user it is just confusing. Besides, we can't often balance 3 races that well, what chance have we at 5? Further it would be impossible to build attack fleets aimed at one race as there will be so few in each race, although I suppose that could be a good thing meaning more varied fleet creation but it could just mean the same few ppl get attacked by the same planets every day.

[-Blue Moon-]

rc
with 6 races you have 12 attack fleets
with 6 classes of ship that means two types of each class as roiders

it would be SO easy to balance this, because you could create attack immunities/dependencies/exceptions for each race.

example 1:
you dont want cath to be hit by FR you make sure that of the attack fleets there is nothing that targets a BS (for example) then give the Cath a BS>FR killer and BAM. Immunity.

example 2:
you want Xan to be hit by Xan FI but not Zik FI. you make the Xan anti-FI ship targeted by the Xan FI fleet (e.g. phantom fi>co whups the spirit co>fi), and not by the Zik FI fleet and BAM. Controlled exception.

example 3:
you want terran to be completely useless against CR so you make the Cath CR freeze/kill their only anti-CR and Zik CR kill it and BAM. Race flaw and gal/ally/friend CR defence dependency.


I'm working on a hypothetical set of stats now (have been since 20-01-07) - it's easy until you get to the proposed new race and zik -- but it's doable and SO SO easy to balance.

RE:confusing players - it might, but there would be publically available guides *coughMANUALcough* to help players understand the remit of their race choice, public discussions on stats *coughFORUMScough* and would not be any harder for a general player *coughEXPERIENCEcough* asides from descyphering stats *coughFRIENDScough* and memorising what kills what and what race to look out for etc...

- tux

[Riddim]

Originally Posted by Makhil

I like the idea, but not the explanation. Ships being blown to bits and resurrecting out of nowhere is hurting my brain.
I'd prefer a 'hollow' race. Their special ability would be to generate hollow ships. Hollow ships divert the enemy fire.
This race could also have the ability to generate hollow roids...

holoroids! \o/
round 1 all over again