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9 Feb 2003, 18:36
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#1
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: I hate you all
Posts: 718
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NTL broadband is going to start download limits
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I admit it, i'm a [TiT]
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9 Feb 2003, 18:37
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#2
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The Twilight of the Gods
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 23,481
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'It defines the one gigabyte limit as equivalent to "200 music tracks, 650 short videos, 10,000 pictures or around 100 large software programmes downloaded per day". '
And here's me thinking a large program was a gig or so, not 10 megs.
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9 Feb 2003, 18:39
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#3
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: I hate you all
Posts: 718
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__________________
I admit it, i'm a [TiT]
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9 Feb 2003, 18:39
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#4
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 8,476
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Surely thats breach of contract if they apply it to existing customers and not to new ones?
Anyway, the free market will sort it out. Its not like there isnt large amounts of competition in the UK broadband industry.
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9 Feb 2003, 18:39
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#5
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Henry Kelly
Join Date: Apr 2000
Posts: 7,374
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I'd be surprised if anyone regularly downloaded over a gig a day of content, and they'll probably only warn you about it if you're doing it day in day out.
It's not much of a change, really.
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9 Feb 2003, 18:40
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#6
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Retired
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Back Porch Bar
Posts: 2,593
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That's absolute crap.
__________________
I'd rather be fishing.
Utterly useless since r3
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9 Feb 2003, 18:41
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#7
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Anal Crumb
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Liverpool
Posts: 1,126
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Quote:
Originally posted by pablissimo
I'd be surprised if anyone regularly downloaded over a gig a day of content, and they'll probably only warn you about it if you're doing it day in day out.
It's not much of a change, really.
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even i dl at least a gig a day
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(MarilynManson) Im from Scotland
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9 Feb 2003, 18:41
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#8
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The Twilight of the Gods
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 23,481
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Quote:
Originally posted by pablissimo
I'd be surprised if anyone regularly downloaded over a gig a day of content, and they'll probably only warn you about it if you're doing it day in day out.
It's not much of a change, really.
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I downloaded 100 Gigs in about 2 weeks, and that was just Kazaa running in the background.
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9 Feb 2003, 18:42
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#9
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, Mr. Fluffie
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,273
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"The company now limits its customers to one gigabyte of downloaded data per day"
and i can survive with 2,500 gig per month? quit whining..
__________________
i want to cover her body with apple pie and eat it off her
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9 Feb 2003, 18:42
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#10
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The Twilight of the Gods
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 23,481
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Quote:
Originally posted by Fluffie
"The company now limits its customers to one gigabyte of downloaded data per day"
and i can survive with 2,500 gig per month? quit whining..
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The point of broadband is to download stuff though.
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9 Feb 2003, 18:43
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#11
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Henry Kelly
Join Date: Apr 2000
Posts: 7,374
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Quote:
Originally posted by MrL_JaKiri
I downloaded 100 Gigs in about 2 weeks, and that was just Kazaa running in the background.
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Would that be copyright material?
Thought so. As such you can't really complain to them that 'This bandwidth cap is stopping me from stealing music and videos from the respective industries', they'll laugh somewhat.
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9 Feb 2003, 18:43
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#12
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, Mr. Fluffie
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,273
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i know.. you 'limit' yourself to an amount of stuff per month? it's not that hard you know...
__________________
i want to cover her body with apple pie and eat it off her
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9 Feb 2003, 18:44
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#13
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 8,476
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Quote:
Originally posted by Fluffie
"The company now limits its customers to one gigabyte of downloaded data per day"
and i can survive with 2,500 gig per month? quit whining..
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If youve paid the extra for 1Mb/s as opposed to sticking with 512Kb/s, youre obviously going to be a pretty heavy user who downloads more than a few mp3s a day.
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9 Feb 2003, 18:45
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#14
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Mr. Blobby
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Belgium
Posts: 8,271
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:eek:
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9 Feb 2003, 18:46
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#15
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The Twilight of the Gods
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 23,481
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Quote:
Originally posted by pablissimo
Would that be copyright material?
Thought so. As such you can't really complain to them that 'This bandwidth cap is stopping me from stealing music and videos from the respective industries', they'll laugh somewhat.
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They don't know that; freedom of information and all that.
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9 Feb 2003, 18:47
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#16
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: I hate you all
Posts: 718
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pablissimo, it means customers using xbox live will be limited to about 5 hours a day, and thats without downloading anything on the pc. If you have it as a family console where theres different people using it at different times its easy to go over that.
__________________
I admit it, i'm a [TiT]
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9 Feb 2003, 18:47
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#17
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Henry Kelly
Join Date: Apr 2000
Posts: 7,374
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Quote:
Originally posted by MrL_JaKiri
They don't know that; freedom of information and all that.
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But if asked, you can't show that you're downloading over a gig a day of legitimate, uncopyrighted material each day.
You would however be able to show them the ample collection of mp3s and divx's on your machine.
Whether they can prove it or not doesn't matter.
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9 Feb 2003, 18:48
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#18
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Henry Kelly
Join Date: Apr 2000
Posts: 7,374
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Quote:
Originally posted by Xillah
pablissimo, it means customers using xbox live will be limited to about 5 hours a day, and thats without downloading anything on the pc. If you have it as a family console where theres different people using it at different times its easy to go over that.
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This hardly accounts for the lion's share of broadband users, does it?
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9 Feb 2003, 18:48
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#19
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The Twilight of the Gods
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 23,481
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Quote:
Originally posted by pablissimo
But if asked, you can't show that you're downloading over a gig a day of legitimate, uncopyrighted material each day.
You would however be able to show them the ample collection of mp3s and divx's on your machine.
Whether they can prove it or not doesn't matter.
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They have no right to access my computer. I also have used more than a gig a day entirely legitimately.
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9 Feb 2003, 18:49
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#20
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Henry Kelly
Join Date: Apr 2000
Posts: 7,374
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Quote:
Originally posted by MrL_JaKiri
They have no right to access my computer. I also have used more than a gig a day entirely legitimately.
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I'm sure you have, I know I have.
But is this what you usually use your broadband line for? Is it what takes up the majority of your downloaded data.
Probably not.
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9 Feb 2003, 18:50
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#21
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The Twilight of the Gods
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 23,481
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Quote:
Originally posted by pablissimo
I'm sure you have, I know I have.
But is this what you usually use your broadband line for? Is it what takes up the majority of your downloaded data.
Probably not.
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Well, I'm not using file sharing apps atm, but I'm using circa that amount.
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9 Feb 2003, 18:52
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#22
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 8,476
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Quote:
Originally posted by MrL_JaKiri
They have no right to access my computer. I also have used more than a gig a day entirely legitimately.
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Why would they have to? Everything you download goes through their servers.
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9 Feb 2003, 18:54
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#23
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The Twilight of the Gods
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 23,481
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Quote:
Originally posted by Nodrog
Why would they have to? Everything you download goes through their servers.
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I was referring to pab's comment about looking on my pc
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9 Feb 2003, 18:54
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#24
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 8,476
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Quote:
Originally posted by pablissimo
Would that be copyright material?
Thought so. As such you can't really complain to them that 'This bandwidth cap is stopping me from stealing music and videos from the respective industries', they'll laugh somewhat.
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Id guess that about 90% of their income comes from people who want to "steal music and videos from the respective industries", so no, they probably wouldnt.
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9 Feb 2003, 18:55
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#25
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Ball
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 4,410
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Does this mean I can't listen to di.fm all day? 
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9 Feb 2003, 18:56
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#26
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 8,476
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Quote:
Originally posted by pablissimo
This hardly accounts for the lion's share of broadband users, does it?
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Id imagine that quite a lot of broadband users (especially the ones paying for 1Mb/s) have multiple computers using it on their home network...
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9 Feb 2003, 19:06
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#27
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Henry Kelly
Join Date: Apr 2000
Posts: 7,374
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Quote:
Originally posted by Nodrog
Id imagine that quite a lot of broadband users (especially the ones paying for 1Mb/s) have multiple computers using it on their home network...
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True. But I was referring specifically to the XBox comment, didn't think instantly of home networks to be honest.
And I don't think they'd care too much (read: they'd laugh) if your only reason for not paying your bill in protest or whinging about a download cap was 'because I can't rip off the music/film industry any more'
Maybe it's RIAA's master plan! and other such conspiracy theories.
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9 Feb 2003, 19:08
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#28
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Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 618
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I'm shocked the broadband companies have started doing this already.
They usually do it to force users onto higher plans. The did it to modem users to push them onto broadband (using time rather than data as an excuse).
Now they're doing it to broadband users? what, we gotta get 2mb DSL or something?
__________________
i am banned cos i am a complete and utterl moron. i wish i wash litke hajmyjimmm cos hes gthe greatest person in te the rowlrd.
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9 Feb 2003, 19:10
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#29
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The Twilight of the Gods
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 23,481
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Quote:
Originally posted by Vanilla
I'm shocked the broadband companies have started doing this already.
They usually do it to force users onto higher plans. The did it to modem users to push them onto broadband (using time rather than data as an excuse).
Now they're doing it to broadband users? what, we gotta get 2mb DSL or something?
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It's so they can sell more connections without having to upgrade the infrastructure.
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9 Feb 2003, 19:11
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#30
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Henry Kelly
Join Date: Apr 2000
Posts: 7,374
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Does ADSL suffer from the same shared-bandwidth crap that cable modems do? I've wondered somewhat see, if given the opportunity I'd go for ADSL or Cable.
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9 Feb 2003, 19:11
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#31
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 8,476
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Quote:
Originally posted by pablissimo
And I don't think they'd care too much (read: they'd laugh) if your only reason for not paying your bill in protest or whinging about a download cap was 'because I can't rip off the music/film industry any more'
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But that is the reason a lot of their customers are buying their service.
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9 Feb 2003, 19:13
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#32
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Henry Kelly
Join Date: Apr 2000
Posts: 7,374
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Yes it is. But they aren't going to be overly concerned if you're quoting that as your reason for protesting against a bandwidth cap, given its a criminal act and all.
How they react when new customers start signing up is a different matter, and I forsee them creating some kind of pricing structure for high usage customers.
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9 Feb 2003, 19:13
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#33
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The Twilight of the Gods
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 23,481
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Quote:
Originally posted by Nodrog
But that is the reason a lot of their customers are buying their service.
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Not the stated reason. and this is why they have long term contracts.
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9 Feb 2003, 19:23
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#34
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 8,476
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Quote:
Originally posted by MrL_JaKiri
Not the stated reason. and this is why they have long term contracts.
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It isnt good business sense to alienate a large amount of your existing customers.
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9 Feb 2003, 19:30
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#35
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The Twilight of the Gods
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 23,481
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Quote:
Originally posted by Nodrog
It isnt good business sense to alienate a large amount of your existing customers.
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But the broadband market is now opened to the general populace, who don't use it much, who don't understand how these things work; '1Mb is twice as fast as 512kb!' is something they'll understand as faster is better, rather than recognising that they don't use the higher bandwidth.
Plus I wouldn't say that NTL has a great business model given its financial history.
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9 Feb 2003, 19:33
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#36
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Angry Young Man
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Mister Cacciatore's down on Sullivan Street
Posts: 7,518
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without downloading illegal material, how is it possible to feasibly NEED to download more than 1GB a day.
OH NOES ILL HAVE TO WAIT 24 HOURS TILL I CAN DOWNLOAD ANOTHER GB (((((((((((
__________________
Believe in me, cause i don't believe in anything
And i wanna be someone, to believe, to believe in
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9 Feb 2003, 19:35
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#37
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 8,476
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Quote:
Originally posted by Deffeh
without downloading illegal material, how is it possible to feasibly NEED to download more than 1GB a day.
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Mirroring linux ISOs on your FTP/web-server.
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9 Feb 2003, 19:36
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#38
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Henry Kelly
Join Date: Apr 2000
Posts: 7,374
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Surely there's something in the AUP that prevents that kind of thing? I was under the impression you couldn't run a website from your broadband connection if it were popular enough for this kind of reason, a la Rockstargame in 'the old days'.
Perhaps not.
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9 Feb 2003, 19:37
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#39
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 8,476
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Quote:
Originally posted by pablissimo
Surely there's something in the AUP that prevents that kind of thing? I was under the impression you couldn't run a website from your broadband connection if it were popular enough for this kind of reason, a la Rockstargame in 'the old days'.
Perhaps not.
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I think youre allowed as long as its not commercial, but then I havent read the terms of use. I do know youre allowed to run web/ftp servers on NTL though.
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9 Feb 2003, 19:41
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#40
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Henry Kelly
Join Date: Apr 2000
Posts: 7,374
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If your website generates abnormally high hit levels or generates abnormally high levels of network traffic, we may at our discretion move it and/or restrict access to it and you shall be liable for any additional charges arising from our action. This may include but is not limited to suspending your Internet access
From the NTL AUP, which applied to both NTL served websites (using your free hosting space) or from your PC apparently.
Though I don't know if this has arised from the service changes regarding bandwidth caps or not.
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9 Feb 2003, 19:45
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#41
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NEWSBOT
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: The enby cave!
Posts: 4,872
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Quote:
Originally posted by pablissimo
If your website generates abnormally high hit levels or generates abnormally high levels of network traffic, we may at our discretion move it and/or restrict access to it and you shall be liable for any additional charges arising from our action. This may include but is not limited to suspending your Internet access
From the NTL AUP, which applied to both NTL served websites (using your free hosting space) or from your PC apparently.
Though I don't know if this has arised from the service changes regarding bandwidth caps or not.
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thats pretty standard policy for any isp.
__________________
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__________________
Pretty parks and funky scrap metal things here
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9 Feb 2003, 19:50
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#42
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 8,476
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Quote:
Originally posted by pablissimo
If your website generates abnormally high hit levels or generates abnormally high levels of network traffic, we may at our discretion move it and/or restrict access to it and you shall be liable for any additional charges arising from our action. This may include but is not limited to suspending your Internet access
From the NTL AUP, which applied to both NTL served websites (using your free hosting space) or from your PC apparently.
Though I don't know if this has arised from the service changes regarding bandwidth caps or not.
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1 GB a day is hardly abnormally high levels of network traffic. Id assume thats just there as a precaution so they can point to the contract if people abuse the service by running heavily accessed FTP servers 24/7 or something.
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9 Feb 2003, 20:14
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#43
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Clerk
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 13,940
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Quote:
Originally posted by Allfather
afaik the UN is making some kind of "law" this summer (i think) that says its legal to dl copyrighted material aslong as its for personal use.
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I think you misunderstand the way international agreements are made. The UN isn't like a parliament.
As for NTL, this sort of move is predictable. Their most profitable customers are those that will pay the £25 per month (or whatever it is) and only download the ocassional movie trailer and use the web. It's only natural they will try to cap the users who just download from Warez/Divx/MP3 servers 24/7.
It's not that they care about the intellectual property of course. It's that these people are effectively getting a third of a T1 for a fraction of the cost. Most ISPs I suspect will do the same, unless there's some sort of breakthrough on the backbone side of things.
I've suggested this elsewhere, but why don't they at least provide:
- More pricing options
- "Off-Peak" Download Times where they encourage people to download from (say) midnight to 6am by upping their bandwidth in this period but then limiting downloads in other periods.
It'd be easier to say whether their move was ridiculous or not if the actual amount the cable companies (or DSL providers) pay for their pipes was freely available info. I have no idea how much NTL pay for their connection, their network stats, etc so I can't really condemn them.
It doesn't affect me tho. Not yet at least.
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9 Feb 2003, 20:16
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#44
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Stoke
Join Date: Apr 2000
Posts: 92
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just how can NTL seriously say 'normal usage' is 1gb for 128k, 600k and 1mb alike?
The service is already capped at those download speeds, is this just NTL's way of saying "we've over subscribed, but you can blame those people that are using what they thought of an unlimited service alot of the time for our ****e performance" ?
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9 Feb 2003, 20:16
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#45
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Wankoverable
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: wherever I am
Posts: 726
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I'm limited to 10 gigs per month, and that is a cable connection :/
__________________
Don't worry, life is too long.
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9 Feb 2003, 20:18
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#46
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Henry Kelly
Join Date: Apr 2000
Posts: 7,374
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WHERE DOES ZOOS STAND ON THE SUBJECT?!"
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9 Feb 2003, 20:23
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#47
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Clerk
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 13,940
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Quote:
Originally posted by '|'empest
The service is already capped at those download speeds
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I think their point is that that is "peak" expected usage. At my local library I'm allowed to take out 8 books per visit. Generally, I don't take this many books out per visit, but I have on ocassion. If all of the libraries membership took out 8 books each and every time though, the system wouldn't work.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not agreeing with their move - although as I said it's predictable. But afaik, the idea of us all getting 1 mbit 24/7 dedicated lines for under £50 per month is probably a little unrealistic.
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9 Feb 2003, 20:33
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#48
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The Twilight of the Gods
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 23,481
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Quote:
Originally posted by Iniluki
Thats a stupid analogy, it really is. When you signed up at your local library you knew there would be a limit to the amount of books you could have out on loan at anyone time. There for you knew about a pre defined limit.
Yes?
Well NTL have advertised there Cable service as limit-less so why should users not take advantage of this?
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The limit on broadband is the bandwidth
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9 Feb 2003, 20:33
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#49
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Condemned to RP
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 1,654
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If you are going to offer a 24/7 1MBps line you by definition promise people a data traffic of 590GB per month.
If you limit it to 35GB month you CANNOT offer 24/7 1MBps anymore, since its just not true.
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9 Feb 2003, 20:37
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#50
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Aquafresh
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: [^-^]
Posts: 261
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Not paying the bill next month. Two months left of the contract - They can either cancel it, or not get paid.
ADSL here I come.
The most annoying thing, is the way they brought this is without informing me, or even giving me a chance to say "No id rather forget it".
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