I just cried for the first time in years...

[s|k]

The Strongest Dad in the World

Read the first comment and then see the video.

[Tomkat]

So his dad pushes his crippled son around marathons?

I don't understand why that's tear-inducing.

I cried a little bit this afternoon when watching Watership Down!

[All Systems Go]

Originally Posted by Tomkat

So his dad pushes his crippled son around marathons?

Isn't that cheating?

[Hicks]

I didn't think it was so much sad but really ****ing cool that he'd do that

There's a video of him on Youtube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WjPrL3n63yg

[Knight Theamion]

****ing ace!

[s|k]

I didn't cry because it was sad, I got a little teary eyed because of the dads face when he finishes the triathalon and all he can do is look at how happy his son is.

[Tomkat]

Originally Posted by s|k

I didn't cry because it was sad, I got a little teary eyed because of the dads face when he finishes the triathalon and all he can do is look at how happy his son is.

Happy more like Crappy am i rite?

[jt25man]

It didn't make me cry, but I think it's cool that the guy would do that for his son. No offence to Tomkat, but you're attitude is totally disrespectful to the guy in my opinion. There's nothing funny about people with disabilities, if you had a son that was disabled in the same sense, I would hope your attitude would be different.

[Tomkat]

Originally Posted by jt25man

There's nothing funny about people with disabilities, if you had a son that was disabled in the same sense, I would hope your attitude would be different.

Well I certainly wouldn't run marathons with him, to try to get some sort of "I'm the BEST DAD EVER!!!!" achievement.

[s|k]

I probably would be more internet cool if I had made cynical remarks about the thing, was too busy drying my eyes at the time though. :0

[Tomkat]

Originally Posted by s|k

I probably would be more internet cool if I had made synical remarks about the thing, was too busy drying my eyes at the time though. :0

I wasn't trying to be internet cool (I was being serious about crying at watership down ;/ )!

[Knight Theamion]

I think TK has cancer of the sympathy

[Hicks]

Originally Posted by jt25man

No offence to Tomkat, but you're attitude is totally disrespectful to the guy in my opinion. There's nothing funny about people with disabilities, if you had a son that was disabled in the same sense, I would hope your attitude would be different.

Someone being disrespectful and making fun of something serious on the Internet, astounding Why I might give him some negative rep to teach him this is not how we do things on the Internet these days !

[Apothos]

This reminded me of Paul Gascoigne on A Question of Sport, where he told a story about how he'd pushed this wheelchair-bound man around the Great North Run (maybe the London Marathon or something). At the end, when they'd finished and he was all out of breath, people were coming over to them and congratulating the crippled fellow for completing it.

[milo]

Originally Posted by jt25man

It didn't make me cry, but I think it's cool that the guy would do that for his son. No offence to Tomkat, but you're attitude is totally disrespectful to the guy in my opinion. There's nothing funny about people with disabilities, if you had a son that was disabled in the same sense, I would hope your attitude would be different.

Tomkat has cancer you horrible ****. CANCER. Do you have cancer? How would you feel if you had cancer and someone criticised you on the internet? Theres nothing funny about cancer.




Nice video, didn't make me cry but that is a nice dad. I think a father having to carry his son, feed him and take care of him in a third world country without any universal health service is more impressive. I don't mean to be shit towards him, but why are you crying? because of his father or because of him? I think its a little patronising to get 'misty eyed' just because someone is disabled. They're still human beings as complex as anyone else. Theres quite a few physicists who would happily push stephen hawking down a very long flight of stairs.

[Dante Hicks]

Originally Posted by milo

I think its a little patronising to get 'misty eyed' just because someone is disabled.

I doubt that's why anyone is crying per se (and I'm not sure where you got the impression that it was). I personally find the video a bit mawkish (what's with that music?) but it's still quite affecting.

If the story is as outlined in the first comment then it's a guy who's doing something pretty impressive not because of some Nike sponsorship deal, or just to win some pretty meaningless contest but out of some kind of affection for his son. Now, you can probably criticise this on rational grounds (his son might be just as happy knowing his dad loved him if they sat at home and played video games together) but that seems to be missing the point slightly.

I've mentioned this before, but I certainly feel an emotional reaction when I see people act heroically, or demonstrations of solidarity, bravery, sacrifice etc*. I would say it seems a fairly hard wired response but apparently some other people don't get it. I guess when you become a capitalist a bit of you dies inside.

* = That's why I like the movie 'It's a Wonderful Life'.

edit : TK's posts in this thread are dreadful.

[milo]

Originally Posted by Dante Hicks

I doubt that's why anyone is crying per se (and I'm not sure where you got the impression that it was). I personally find the video a bit mawkish (what's with that music?) but it's still quite affecting.

If the story is as outlined in the first comment then it's a guy who's doing something pretty impressive not because of some Nike sponsorship deal, or just to win some pretty meaningless contest but out of some kind of affection for his son. Now, you can probably criticise this on rational grounds (his son might be just as happy knowing his dad loved him if they sat at home and played video games together) but that seems to be missing the point slightly.

So you're crying because of what the dad is doing rather than the disability?

I've mentioned this before, but I certainly feel an emotional reaction when I see people act heroically, or demonstrations of solidarity, bravery, sacrifice etc*. I would say it seems a fairly hard wired response but apparently some other people don't get it. I guess when you become a capitalist a bit of you dies inside.

Personally i always feel a little out of control, i appreciate an intellectual solidarity and discussion rather than physical displays of solidarity. Theres just an uncomfortable air of mob-esque (too strong a word couldn't think of anything else) behaviour for me. To me its a hop skip and jump from that to crying when you raise your national flag and sing the national anthem.


And i said i support a welfare state!

edit : TK's posts in this thread are dreadful.

He has cancer

[dda]

Originally Posted by Dante Hicks

apparently some other people don't get it. I guess when you become a capitalist a bit of you dies inside. (

You must be kidding! There is a lot of money to be made off of this kind of emotion. Capitalists love emotion. Just watch most commercials.

[Dante Hicks]

Originally Posted by milo

So you're crying because of what the dad is doing rather than the disability?

Well, I'm not crying at all, but yeah I'd say so. Obviously the scenario depends on the kid being disabled, a guy pushing his perfectly able bodied son might be a bit strange.

Personally i always feel a little out of control, i appreciate an intellectual solidarity and discussion rather than physical displays of solidarity. Theres just an uncomfortable air of mob-esque (too strong a word couldn't think of anything else) behaviour for me.

No offence but this sounds like you're fairly alienated from your fellow man. Your comment about the welfare state is interesting - you're (effectively) frightened by people helping each other spontaneously, but the idea of beaureacratic structures where no-one has to really care about anyone appeals to you? (I'm being unfair here, but you get the idea).

To me its a hop skip and jump from that to crying when you raise your national flag and sing the national anthem.

I'd say there's a big difference between solidarity between a father and son and nationalism. In fact one of the general criticisms of nationalism is that it attempts to replace "real" solidarity with a false consciousness of imaginary bonds* between the land owner and the peasant.

But what I'm terming solidarity here is extremely broad - for instance the other day I saw an old man trip and fall over on the way home. I went to help him up but four people beat me to it and lifted him up, made sure he was OK. Now, you can say that in some sense those people are on some sort of road towards pogroms or whatever, but that seems unlikely (and given they were all of a different ethnicity to the guy who fell over it's probably the opposite is true).

I'm also not trying to glorify sentiment and irrationalism here btw. These emotional responses are not meant as a substitute to rational action, or rational analysis but they are in addition to. I am suggesting people should help each other because rationally that will lead to the best results for everyone, but I'm also saying there's no problem with revelling in the good feelings this engenders.

* They're not always imaginary, of course which is why nationalism can be a progressive force. It was entirely correct that Britain appealed to nationalism during WW2, or that the Vietname did the same in their fight against the French & Americans (or as Cuba often does today).

[Dante Hicks]

Originally Posted by dda

Capitalists love emotion. Just watch most commercials.

There's a big difference between selling emotions and experiencing them.

[jt25man]

Originally Posted by milo

How would you feel if you had cancer and someone criticised you on the internet? Theres nothing funny about cancer.

You're right, there's nothing funny about cancer, it's a horrible disease. I however was pointing out there's nothing funny about Mental and/or Physical disabilities.

If you or a member of your family were mentally or physically handicapped how would you feel if someone criticized you or your family member on the internet?

[ReligFree]

Tbh i think the kids being a bit lazy not doing anything himself...

[Snurx]

I work with children. Lots of children. Some are disable, some have ADHD/ADD/Insertwhateverlabelhere, and some are normal.

It gives me hope to see parents that care this much about their siblings. I can say that from my experience it's not the norm. Good going

[TouRiQueT]

Touching story.

Tomkat you're a ****ing asshole.
________
SaLoMmE cam

[Tomkat]

In all honesty I hadn't actually watched the video. I just read the article and it sounded like a lot of sentimental bullshit, so I didn't even bother.

This stuff about "omg you cannot laugh at disabled people!!!" is a load of crap.

Just because they have a disability doesn't mean they're exempt from jibes or insults. Look at all the Stephen Hawking jokes that are around. Look at all the ****ing CANCER jokes aimed at me! I don't think I'm exempt from them!

This holier-than-thou attitude given just because of a cripple being pushed around by his dad in a wheelchair (for a marathon) is truly pathetic. You can't make fun of black people and girls who get raped on these forums and then turn right round and say that that's ok but making fun of disabled people isn't.

[TouRiQueT]

I too just read the article and if it makes the guy happy then why take the piss? If you know what its like then why dish it back out? There's no point, man.
________
Small Tits Webcams

[Dante Hicks]

Originally Posted by Tomkat

Just because they have a disability doesn't mean they're exempt from jibes or insults. Look at all the Stephen Hawking jokes that are around. Look at all the ****ing CANCER jokes aimed at me! I don't think I'm exempt from them!

I think your argument would be considerably stronger if you'd never posted this thread.

(Obviously it's perfectly acceptable to make jokes about rape, the disabled, the holocaust, cancer, etc. But they still have to be good jokes. A crap post about someone with a disability (or cancer for that matter) isn't automatically transformed into a good post by being "edgy".)

[Tomkat]

Originally Posted by Dante Hicks

I think your argument would be considerably stronger if you'd never posted this thread.

That was just a simple request to not "tempt fate". I've put up with and laughed at most of the cancer jokes for about 3-4 months.

Originally Posted by Dante Hicks

(Obviously it's perfectly acceptable to make jokes about rape, the disabled, the holocaust, cancer, etc. But they still have to be good jokes. A crap post about someone with a disability (or cancer for that matter) isn't automatically transformed into a good post by being "edgy".)

I'm pretty sure that when I was told that I'm a horrible human being for saying that, they weren't referring to the quality of the joke.

[Dante Hicks]

Originally Posted by Tomkat

That was just a simple request to not "tempt fate". I've put up with and laughed at most of the cancer jokes for about 3-4 months.

Yeah, I get that, but then you can't say there's no limits on jokes when you've asked people to stop for whatever reason.

I'm pretty sure that when I was told that I'm a horrible human being for saying that, they weren't referring to the quality of the joke.

Well obviously I don't speak for everyone else, I'm only referring to my earlier comments.

[milo]

Originally Posted by Dante Hicks

Well, I'm not crying at all, but yeah I'd say so. Obviously the scenario depends on the kid being disabled, a guy pushing his perfectly able bodied son might be a bit strange.

Nice video, didn't make me cry but that is a nice dad. I think a father having to carry his son, feed him and take care of him in a third world country without any universal health service is more impressive. I don't mean to be shit towards him, but why are you crying? because of his father or because of him? I think its a little patronising to get 'misty eyed' just because someone is disabled. They're still human beings as complex as anyone else. Theres quite a few physicists who would happily push stephen hawking down a very long flight of stairs.

whats the beef mong*? i agree what the dad is doing is nice, thats why i was questioning what the crying was about, i thought it might have been the disability itself - which can be patronising towards the disabled, i remember reading an article where a blind football cup was held, it was played full out ie they really tackled each other and although aware it was non traditional behaviour took the competitiveness seriously. The journalist commented that the airline check in totty said 'awwwwww bless' when she heard, which isn't exactly the responce a normal football team would expect.


*amusingly this made me google image mong to see if any funny pics emerged, guess whos #1

Originally Posted by don't patronise me

No offence but this sounds like you're fairly alienated from your fellow man. Your comment about the welfare state is interesting - you're (effectively) frightened by people helping each other spontaneously, but the idea of beaureacratic structures where no-one has to really care about anyone appeals to you? (I'm being unfair here, but you get the idea).
I'd say there's a big difference between solidarity between a father and son and nationalism. In fact one of the general criticisms of nationalism is that it attempts to replace "real" solidarity with a false consciousness of imaginary bonds* between the land owner and the peasant.

I have a problem with philanthropy since it can become a form of rich man colonialism, shrieky busybodies more than anything else. Don't take that as an absolute statement obviously not everyone is like that but i don't see why i should automaticallly be against a democratically accountable organisation being in charge of welfare or charity. Its certainly far preferable than some rich bastard offering free medical care. Although it obviously will help, im not overjoyed at billy gates and his mate warren donating xxxx billion to the africans. I have this vision of a geldof/gates future that scares the shit out of me. You're in favour of it amirite?*


*not serious

But what I'm terming solidarity here is extremely broad - for instance the other day I saw an old man trip and fall over on the way home. I went to help him up but four people beat me to it and lifted him up, made sure he was OK. Now, you can say that in some sense those people are on some sort of road towards pogroms or whatever, but that seems unlikely (and given they were all of a different ethnicity to the guy who fell over it's probably the opposite is true).

I'm also not trying to glorify sentiment and irrationalism here btw. These emotional responses are not meant as a substitute to rational action, or rational analysis but they are in addition to. I am suggesting people should help each other because rationally that will lead to the best results for everyone, but I'm also saying there's no problem with revelling in the good feelings this engenders.

* They're not always imaginary, of course which is why nationalism can be a progressive force. It was entirely correct that Britain appealed to nationalism during WW2, or that the Vietname did the same in their fight against the French & Americans (or as Cuba often does today).

k mang, and although your example of helping the old man is admirable i took our discussion to be about solidarity in the 'philosophical/ideological' sense because really, helping an old man up isn't that heroic.

[Dante Hicks]

whats the beef mong*?

There's no beef. I wasn't necessarily saying you were evil and/or wrong, I was just commenting on a few of the things you've said. Apologies if I went into Commie rant mode.

I have a problem with philanthropy since it can become a form of rich man colonialism, shrieky busybodies more than anything else.

Well, I'm not a favour of the Gates / Buffet version of philanthropy, no. But that's not solidarity - that's some idea of a white mans burden. And as I've said elsewhere the problems of Africa will be solved by Africans people, not Europeans (some leftists forget this and Eurocentrism corrupts their thinking terribly).

Of course, these gap-year types undoubtedly mean well, but yeah it's all a bit cringe-worthy and I rarely feel any sympathy where I hear "pretty white blonde girl from Hampshire horribly raped & murdered while in third world hell-hole".

k mang, and although your example of helping the old man is admirable i took our discussion to be about solidarity in the 'philosophical/ideological' sense because really, helping an old man up isn't that heroic.

No, of course it's not. But then again, neither is joining a trade union (in most cases, obviously it is in someplaces, unfortunately) or something like that, which is the essence of solidarity. Looking out for your fellow man shouldn't need to be heroic, it should be the default position in most cases. Obviously some people go "the extra mile" to use a particularly hateful corporate banality. Helping someone up is the first notch on the scale, throwing yourself on a grenade to save your regiment might be the highest. But it's all the same sort of thing.

But yeah. Go socialism, ra ra ra.

[Dante Hicks]

Originally Posted by horn

i'm not sure frightened is necessarily the right word (unless you dislike the sudden attention helping someone in the street might pertain), i think it's a reluctance to indulge in false hope.

Well, he used the term "mob" so I'm presuming his reluctance was more than just not indulging in false hopes.

donating(through tax) money to a faceless beaureacratic structure to help others* has a lot less emotional incentive than helping your kid have a good life

Tax isn't a donation under any reasonable definition of the term.

But I am not criticising the idea of a welfare state per se, especially under current conditions. I just find it interesting that someone would prefer it to people helping each other directly. Of course, the NHS (and welfare states in general) can easily be justified on grounds of utility but his attitude (or my reading of it) seems to go beyond that.

what measures real and false solidarity? the actions you might expect i.e. altruistic behaviour towards one another would by symptomatic of both nationalism and father-son relationships.

I'm not particularly interested in "actions" in this context, it's more about the net effects of these relationships and the participants awareness of these relationships. A lot of the time nationalism isn't necessarily a false consciousness - and to a large extent a lot of this down is down to taste. A friend of mine might get a girlfriend and I might think she was using him and therefore the relationship is parasitical. He might think differently, as might she. I wouldn't say this is something that can be measured in some physical sense.

i'm not sure the action is enough to conclude it's cause being a feeling of solidarity.

No, of course not - but I'm not sure I've implied that it was. If I see someone being helped (e.g. the people who helped out the old man) I am the one who feels the sense of solidarity. It might be that two of the people did it out of obligation. Another might have been trying to pick-pocket the man. The last one might have been doing so because a terrorist had kindapped his family and threatened to kill them unless he helped out at least three people that afternoon.

The point is, I don't know people's motivation (and without going out of my way to find out it's difficult to find out) and so I assume the best. It makes me happier in the long run.

i'd have done the same simply because of social norms/pressures whether real or percieved. i'm far, far less likely to help someone who trips up/drops something/needs help with a pram if i know they nor anyone else has seen me. [...] infact i tend to resent helping them. i may be, but i'm not convinced i am the only one who feels this way.

Yes, I suspect there's quite a lot of people who feel like this, which was one of my points about modern society. However, I would also note (and please don't take this as ad hominem) that you feel like this and (as far as I am aware) you are a fairly depressed individual. I do not think these facts are unrelated.

i find it feels kind of baseless after rational analysis. for instance asking myself why i helped someone. the minute you question it the value seems to fall apart. at least for me anyway.

Well, when I said rational analysis I was talking prior to action, not after. Not "should I help this person off the floor" - I would hope most non-mentally ill people don't need a rational argument to do that. I am talking about joining a trade union, or refusing to cross a picket line, or giving to charity. These might be reflexes too, but they are also things that might require "a reason" too.

But saying rational analysis reduces the emotional intensity of something seems symptomatic of a larger fallacy. As Dawkins is fond of putting it, knowing how Rainbows are formed doesn't make them any more beautiful to witness.

[Dace]

Originally Posted by Snurx

It gives me hope to see parents that care this much about their siblings.

The word you're after is "offspring". Siblings = brothers or sisters.


[/helping the non-native english speaker :) ]

[Pilgrim]

Originally Posted by Apothos

This reminded me of Paul Gascoigne on A Question of Sport, where he told a story about how he'd pushed this wheelchair-bound man around the Great North Run (maybe the London Marathon or something). At the end, when they'd finished and he was all out of breath, people were coming over to them and congratulating the crippled fellow for completing it.

lol.
WHy dont these special needs people learn to do things for some selves like drive around the track in a golf cart rather than getting us innocent individuals to help them while they take all the credit.

Kind of like the guy in a wheelchair in the show Little Britain. lol

[Travler]

Some humor should be left up the experts. Even though I am Christian I find the musings of George Carlin funny. Even his bit on The Ten Commandmants is well crafted and thought out and has a great deal of comedic value.