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Unread 25 Jan 2007, 20:52   #1
Paisley
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A Strategy Guide for R20

Playing guide/strategy...

Terrans...

Use harpys and nixes as basic ally/self def...can use these to deter xan fi/co or cath co but these will be a deterent at best if you going to keep in harpys and nixies v xan fi/co incs make sure you know what you are doing... as there will be a certain risk on sending these on ally def but a DC worth his/her salt will reduce this risk. nixies v cath co will be 0 loss. harpys can also be used as EMP flak v cath co.

Syrens will be a key ship for terran it will be required to keep FR inc away
and also used in attacks.

Terran DE will be a good roiding fleet with etd (if the investor count is low), cath (low roach count) and possibily other terrans if the dragon count is low... if you are going to roid zik and xan (low thief/banshee count for example) make sure you know what you are doing otherwise it will end in tears.

Terran BS / Terran BS CR.

Terran BS or BS/CR can be used in a number of ways.
Terran BS can be used to attack other terrans and ziks if their respective anti BS is low but can be at risk to 0 loss ships from FRIG class anti BS for example shadows,mantis and merchants.
this would also be required to play chicken.
This is where syrens can be used in attacks... using BS/CR this can open xan and cath up to attack. however it does have the drawback of having one more class to target.

Other attack strategies.
It is possible to send fakes in the form...on the basis that they dont have JPG technology researched or that you have more distorters than they have amps...
1 DE + FI or CO = DE count
1 BS or CR + FI or CO = BS or BS/CR count depending on desired effect.
It is quite possible with a well configured fleet to fake DE as BS/CR this can be done by for example...
1 CR or BS + de = BS or BS/CR count.
But make sure that the fake is plausable and realistic. Do a calc to see what your defense tolerance is for either ship class...

What to do if you get terran incs?
If it is terran DE use suffient banshee which gets its cut in first. (which can be easily faked as 1 banshee/wraith = banshee/full fi except pods count due to cloak so it adds a unknown factor to the attacker) thiefs are 0 loss option aswell and also prevent cap but wont prevent the other ships from firing. ingal/cluster options are Roach, Investors and dragons these would have to be used in a useful means.

Terran BS or BS/CR.
If it is pure bs use frig class anti BS to target them for 0 loss... mass clippers is also a 0 loss option but there must be suffient numbers... mass tarants is also a 0 loss option but must be suffient numbers.
Chims can target BS but they will fire same time as dragons which can be messy...
When BS/CR is used this also leaves Syrens vunerable to targetting.. for 0 loss kill options use wyverns to target cr.
also brokers can be used to target syerns 0 loss to prevent them firing thus allowing FRIG class anti BS to fire unhindered. also using dealers and scarabs as an option to target the CR with getting in your cut in first.
Pirates will have to be used carfully here I would ideally recommend the use of tarants/cr flak to asist here.... or if the wyvern count is low.


Cathaar

Spiders will be a def ship in demand v other cath CO either in the capacity of getting their cut in first to prevent other ships like vipers and beetles from firing or as EMP flak v beetles. Also to use in freezing wraiths in xan fi/co combos.

Scarabs... this ship will be a valuble def ship in terms of get in the first cut wether it is used against Cath CR, Syrens and Zik CR fleets. More importantly Cath CR when you cant get suffient freezer flak to allow the CR Targetting ships a Chance to fire.
Mantis... This ship to be used as a supplimental anti BS. This will need to be used carefully as it has a slow init.

Cath CO general roiding options would be Etd and zik. (Although is capable of roiding terrans using disposble spiders. xans and other caths if their respective 0 loss kill ships are out. But would need the right conditions to do this may need spider assistance.) in a def capacity beetle will be effective v FI fleet and vipers V FRIG fleets.

Cath CR general roiding options would be xans terran zik and other caths.
a well configured fleet will be needed here. A roach heavy fleet may leave you vunerable to BS and vice versa.There is a cr class anti Co aswell.

Other attack strategies...
Whilst it may be more difficult to fake spiders as co as your spider would have to be equal or around your CO fleet count... I have seen this in the past. it is possible to fake CR as 1 CR + other ships = CR count on the basis that your target does not have JPG scan researched or you have more amps than they have distorters for the purpose of def draining.

What to do I you get cath incs.
As Co fleets are purely an EMP fleet this would also add dimentions to a defense strategy....Spiders can be used to get your cut in first. For example EMP flak can be used for example. for the purposes of anti fi just add harpys, xan fi, cutlasses and spiders this would likely allow more Fi class anti CO target to target the CO. same can be applied for frig ships to act as flak to allow Rangers to fire more.... there are 0 loss options that can be used v this for example at ally eta is the phoenix... other ingal/cluster options would consist of spectres and widdowmakers.

Yet again cath CR incs are emp to all those it targets for example DE and BS class there are 3 ways to def against this fleet.
1. Out flak it at the DE end using de ships as emp flak. (enabling the likes of drakes, ghosts and buccaneers to fire)
2. Out flak it at the BS end this would consist of zik, terran and etd bs fleets, even cath SKs if need be. (enabling the likes of wyverns to fire as broker is on the same init as tarantulas)
3. hitting it from FRIG class anti cr for example scarabs although 0 kill they do have the advantage of firing before the CR fleet hence reducing the amount of flak needed. dealers are true 0 loss kill on this fleet. which do have the cloak advantage and can be easily faked...

Xandathrii.
with the military scan being disabled for this round this leaves xans with alot of possibilities. You will be surprised how many players nerve goes when they cant get a scan.

The use of wraith will be a valuable ship as it fires before the phantom as a self preservation def ship as it fires before the xan fi but will needed in suffient amounts. and that it will xans to roid terrans if they have harpys at base.

the use of xan de will be critical as def ships in terms of what they can target and also their fakeability. for example spectres can target co ships 0 loss for ingal and also ghosts can target pure cr at 0 loss with the only exception of a zik aquiring investors as part of their cr fleet... they will be vunerable to terran BS/CR fleets.

Xan FI or FI/Co fleets these can roid any race with a painful exception of xan as they would get their cut in from wraiths firing before phantoms...although cant rule this one out. To roid terans for example suffient banshee and wariths would need to be used to roid a terran with harpys and pegasus. other races it will just be a question of outnumbering their anti fi. Caths and Etd will be 0 loss options here. ziks will be an easy loss option up until they aquire rogues then it would become would certain losses be worth the roids/xp.

Xan FRIG only their roiding option would be caths with low viper count however there are ways to attack using other ship classes taking full advantage of the cloak.
See Below.

Other strategies.
The key to using xan ships will be your configuration of how many FI and FRIG pods you have for example... as this is the only thing that will be certain on landing. xans fleets will only show pods and SKs

To use an effective fake with FI for example you can use 1/2 your fi pods. (that would allow full cap on the targets roids remember keep the fake realistic and plausable)
in one fleet and send a fake second wave vice versa. This could lead the target to suspect that the fi fleet is "split". the only safe way to assume is full coverage on both waves. the only person that knows what either fleet contains is you. The only sure way of this being revealed if the target has the ability to Fleet scan you and this will only reveal the total ships and not fleet composition with the exception of pods/sks. The target would Need to have JPG researched and have more amps than you distortors.
there is also other tactical advantages that xan have aswell...
1. Cant be Advanced scaned until around pt 200ish It is possible for a Cath (as they have a race 10% research bonus), on research on as engineering priority 1 (another 15%) and 20% research lab bonus AKA 55% max research time. To get to adv scan before pt 200 but would have to sacrifice Heavy Cargo research or ship hulls.) and that on the basis that that they have more amps than you have distorters....spot the scanner time
2. JPG fleets cant reveal what you have sent (exception of pods/sks) to an ally/cluster/gal mate the attackers would have to work on "worse case senario" calculations to decide to land it or not or effectively land "blind".
Name your fleet "best poker face"
3. Unit scans will be useless against xan only would be effective in revealing pod/sk count.
4. It is possible to send Frig Ships as an attack fleet but discuise FI/CO ships in that fleet (remember the only way that it can be revealed is via Fleet scan to reveal the total numbers) examples of this would be....

Xan sending FRIG fleet V zik for example there is nothing stoping a xan from sending fighters and de in that fleet to hit them for example...
http://bcalc.thrud.co.uk./index.php?loadfile=main44354
All that will look like is 200 incomings on gal and overview (only a JPG scan can reveal the full amount of ships on the basis that they are scanable with your target having more amps than you distorters.) if the zik thought that was pure frig he/she would naturally send their cr for easy cap however as demonstrated in the calc things dont always apprear to what it seems.

What to do if you get Xan Incs.
If you were to defend against Xan incs getting as much infomation as much as possible can be as important as getting as much def ships as possible.
early on in the round xans will be hard get scans on...
1. UNIT scans will reveal the pod/sk count
2. TECH scan will reveal the eta/hull research
3. NEWS scans migh show previous battle reports from which an estimate fleet can be based apon if you choose a defense strategy (previous fleet sizes or attack behavour/style. (Bare in mind that these will be at least 4 ticks old)
4. JPG scan to reveal total ship amount
5. ADV unit if available.

If it is against FI or FI/CO
the only true 0 loss option to def v this would be rogues (but spent once used). As there is nothing FI class that can target BS. other options worth considering is harpys but would be vunerable to pure Xan FI fleets but there are no certain means of knowing this.... if they decide to throw in their wraiths.
The strategy I would mainly use against this would be harpys, spiders as first choice as spiders would freeze any would be wraiths and allowing harpys to fire unhindered. (cutlasses could be added to suppliment spiders)... even then there will be some risk without obtaining a ADV unit scan. as a no win senario I would use rogues to target the fi and widdowmakers to target wraiths.

If you are able to obtain an ADV unit scan the method I would use is a reverse calc (put their full fleet against yours and take out unessesary ships this way can reveal the attackers strategy. same one I would use to calc zik fleets in previous rounds when a FA scan was not available) and determind what would be the best way to defend against it would it be better to outflank the FI using CO class anti FI like beetle,vendors and wraiths that get their cut in first. or alternatively use harpys (make sure that if there is/likely to have wraiths ensure suffient harpys there to fire and also decide if the losses are worth keeping the roids) and spiders (would ensure that the wraiths dont fire if there in suffient numbers)
A JPG scan would be able to determine the full fleet count and it might be possible to determine if the full cloaked fleet or if wraiths are added to the fleet.

If it against a FRIG fleet or Worse yet...against a Discuised fleet.
similar method against xan FI/CO do the reverse calc and determine what is being sent... if you cant obtain an ADV Unit the use of ships like roach, dragons, syrens and tycoons may have to be used to ensure they get a cut in first.

Zikonian
The 1:1 steal ratio seems to cause some distrubance it is possible to cap more than this. The key to a good zik this round will be a good fleet composition

Cutlasses... To be used in capping CO ships in particular cath CO...
(Co ships that will help v fi and frig incs or as a possible roid option)

Corsairs wont have much use this round but can be used as a Kill option on xan fi...if the fi fleet is suffiently frozen or hit by wraiths...also can be used as viper flak in the event of a gal/cluster m8 being hit by cath co.

Thiefs... If there will be a def ship in demand it will be this one, 0 loss steal ship which can also cap at a profit on zik ships and also get terran de Which gives a stronger/more roid options for your de fleet. (and thats without salvage)
http://bcalc.thrud.co.uk/index.php?loadfile=main42799
http://bcalc.thrud.co.uk/index.php?loadfile=main93307

Rogues...another 0 loss option against fi fleets... but is really an Ingal option only one way to build up an FI fleet.

DE fleets... one tactic to use for roiding with this fleet would be to use the DE fleet to feed your cruiser for example...
terrans...http://bcalc.thrud.co.uk/index.php?loadfile=main93924
aquire syrens to aid your cr fleet.
Caths...http://bcalc.thrud.co.uk/index.php?loadfile=main13906
aquire cath cr to aid your cr fleet.
etd...http://bcalc.thrud.co.uk/index.php?loadfile=main67285
If you specifically want a cr fleet that has can kill de.

Also your de ships can be used as effective anti cr and bs for defence aswell.

Zik CR... will be hard to get going at first due to its slow init... but can get you extra frig and bs if used right. to start off with you may have to hit caths for their frig ships like scarabs. Etd may be an option aswell along if the dealer count is low.

Other Attack strategies.
ziks can be used quite effectively to fake attacks when they have the right fleet compositions... examples could be DE faked as CR...BS faked as CR and other combinations it would depend on your fleet compostions.
Whilst Fleetcatches might not be the same that they once were from previous rounds... these can still effectively be done.

What to do if you get zik incomings
If it is DE using ships like roach and banshee will allow their ships to get their cut in before they fire (handy if you are a terran)... ships like investors will fire before buccs can steal but clippers will shoot before this. other ships like dragons will fire after clippers do. thiefs are a true 0 loss option.
But the above can change if they aquire DE from other races.

If you receive CR incomings using ships like buccs drakes and ghosts will be a 0 loss option at first but this can change once they aquire Different CR
other options would attack the cr from the frig side for example dealers can be effective in this (easy to fake these) and scarabs which will get its cut in first before the other ships. the other alternative is to defend them from the BS side for example the use of brokers and wyverns.

If you receive any other inc from zik
Do a reverse calc (take all of the ziks ships v yours and see what is isnt covered) 9/10 you will work it out. ziks do have the ability to aquire cloaked ships so ideally get an ADV unit.

Etraides
A new race that do have some advantages and disadvantages.

Voyagers will be required as an ally eta def ship. they can be readily faked as anti frig due to their cloak.
Vendors will be required to keep Fi incs at bay and will more likely to be readily available than vipers.

Investors...the only source of anti de until you can aquire some dragons
they can be decent anti de if the anti CR is Low.

Etd FRIG fleets these can be used against Terrans (by taking out most/all the syrens if the dealer count is high enough) caths if their viper count is low enough as a 0 loss attack option. they can also roid ziks if they dont have suffient CR or no other capped anti FRIG. if the fleet compostions are right then possibily Etd would depend on voyager/tycoon count.

Etd BS fleet would mainly roid caths, xans and other Etd if they cap suffient BS from other races they could consider targetting other races.

What to Do if you get ETD incs.

Etd FRIG these will most likely have dealers in these an advance unit will be required to show this. If these arent available then look at the xan section on how to aquire infomation on cloaked ships (ie NEWS scan for old Battle reports and so forth). also these can be deffed by cloaked ships namely apparitions at 0 loss before any ships can fire and voyagers but fire at same time as Rangers and (dealer). vipers are targetted but do get their cut in first. Those would be ally eta def options however tycoons can be used as an effective ingal/cluster def option. as they would get their cut in first before merchants can return fire but would be able to prevent rangers and dealers from firing. other def options like syrens and marauders would have to take a hit from the dealers before returning fire.

Etd BS will be hard to stop from a FRIG/CR perspective but not from a de point. there are 3 ways to target their BS.
1. Use DE class anti BS as they wont naturally have a BS ship that will target this. for example Chims and Clippers. neither wont prevent the tycoon or broker from firing.
2. Use CR class anti BS as a true 0 loss option tarantulas will be the only ship that will prevent the tycoon from firing (to allow more frigs to survive)
other cr can be used as emp flak to allow pirates to get cap on Etd bs without loss.
3. Use FRIG class anti BS only recommended if there is a low tycoon count and that the there is alot of frig ships willing to take a hit before returning fire.
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Unread 25 Jan 2007, 21:27   #2
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Re: A Strategy Guide for R20

Paisley FTW!!!!

I wish i had this much spare time
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Unread 25 Jan 2007, 21:48   #3
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Re: A Strategy Guide for R20

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pilgrim
Paisley FTW!!!!

I wish i had this much spare time
what he said !

thank you pais. eventho i slightly disagree on some points, this information wil be invaluable to anyone who would read it to provide some insigh ton other races.

<3
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Unread 25 Jan 2007, 23:55   #4
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Re: A Strategy Guide for R20

I wub j00 Benneh, but this is not the manner in which you go about showing your dissatisfaction with the ship stats on this forum. Thankyou, -UN
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Last edited by Ultimate Newbie; 26 Jan 2007 at 02:30. Reason: Not fully appropriate for this forum -UN
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Unread 26 Jan 2007, 09:20   #5
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Re: A Strategy Guide for R20

I probably agreed with what Benneh said before the edit.
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Unread 26 Jan 2007, 10:03   #6
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Re: A Strategy Guide for R20

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoom
I probably agreed with what Benneh said before the edit.
You ate a whole wheel of cheese? I'm not even mad. That's impressive!
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Unread 26 Jan 2007, 12:09   #7
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Re: A Strategy Guide for R20

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You ate a whole wheel of cheese? I'm not even mad. That's impressive!
true story
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Unread 29 Jan 2007, 07:20   #8
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Re: A Strategy Guide for R20

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoom
true story
Stoom you nub
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Unread 3 Feb 2007, 14:42   #9
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Re: A Strategy Guide for R20

ok as my posts constantly gets delated here by sove :/

0 loss ships vs all pods from xan is bad mkey means 20% is no go for them

sucks
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Unread 4 Feb 2007, 01:22   #10
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Re: A Strategy Guide for R20

i stick by the non edited version of my post
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Unread 8 Feb 2007, 14:13   #11
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Re: A Strategy Guide for R20

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pilgrim
Paisley FTW!!!!

I wish i had this much spare time
Great thread Paisley!!
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Unread 8 Feb 2007, 17:33   #12
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Re: A Strategy Guide for R20

Pais u gave to much thought to cath CO. I can sum it up better : Useless.
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Unread 9 Feb 2007, 00:43   #13
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Re: A Strategy Guide for R20

suffice to say this is shaping up to be worse than i earlier thought
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Unread 9 Feb 2007, 01:01   #14
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Re: A Strategy Guide for R20

yeah, the descriptions of the stats are a little optimistic compared to the real situation. Although in theory they are right about the offensive potential of all fleets (apart from a few race pos classes which have none), they don't really cover the defence expectations. Atleast with my Terran fleets i can't seem to escape any defence at all (Thiefs and (faked) banshee's ftl ) and the round barely started :/. I doubt i'll be able to grow at all later in the round, seeing roughly 75% of the universe its attack fleets are able to target me while i can hardly target any (for free). Guess i'm being punished for not sticking to my regular race , although it doesn't matter much in the end, atleast i would have had more attack options :/.
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