Round 10, traveltime and alliances

Originally posted by ginjas
also and in here i may be a litle doubtfull..the gerrila feature would only be caught if you spend a special scan...wich it goes after mil scan...inteligence scan... check entire gal for gerrilha atacls....with a SUCHA heavy cost...that will only be done if you have no clue if any one doing that atack....but if this feature is implemented to balance it....not even the planet geting the incs..could know he is geting incs...that would make top 10 gals even if powerblockking have to spend almost each tick doing INTEL scans..but if the cost is Sise based..the bigger the gal the harder it goes to scan...heheh so you get to a place where top gals will have to be always online..if they wana win...and smal players who have no time for Hardcore play..but stil wana have some fun..will have a way to revenge....and do some damage
that will always balance the game..couse only the most hatted ones..usualy the biggest ones..get the more fanatics atfter them....hehehe so they will need full time escort

That idea I do like m8, an intel scan thats score/size related (only I would suggest based on the roids owned by the gal as a whole as thats gonna stop some small guy in gal doing the scans for cheap). And the idea of the attack coming in without any warning is cool, but in truth it would perhaps be better that the attack was only detected at say eta 2, too l8 to get def, but early enough that you could run if you wanted to save ya ships and give up ya roids

[pyromanic]

Great idea, should have always been that way.

Alliances grew from cluster strength and somehow they lost their roots and starting strangling the rest of PA like inter-galatic Triffids. Time to cap this with a good dose of realistic restriction.


The gals should loop to reflect a natural circular universe.

Jumpgates to become usefull ?

:eek:

[Teddy_Bear]

i have to say that if u can stop power bocking and the like and make gals work together more will make the game more fun and incourage new players cos if ur not in alliance these days no point in playing to be honest.......

but with gals haveing a universe like travel from 1:1 to 120:1 would take ages may and could cause alot of unfairness with people in middle clusters may be have a unvirese that goes round so travel from 1:1 to 1:2 be the same as travel from 1:1 to 120:1

such as u go of one end of the universe and enter the other side of the universe

if this makes no sense blame the beer

[bear]

Interesting idea! Though I do hope this wouldnt be combined with full random gals. Imo the luck factor would become too big in that case.

One suggestion which I agree with, which was already said... Make like the max traveltime something like 15 hours.

And I dont know if it would be too difficult to put it.. But perhaps give gals the possibility to take over another gals jumpgate? Thus giving an extra traveltime reduction.. (temporarily?).. Ofc within strict limitations (say max 1-2 in a given time period). Implementing suggestions like these will increase the importance of tactics and galaxy cooperation

[Remberasha]

Hi Spinner --

I have worked on many games in my lifetime (including "Starfleet Battles" - that is now a computer game called "StarFleet Command") so I speak with some experience here...

This is not a new concept and although it does have some advantages - it has some serious tactical disadvantages.. espcially for any players in the center as they can get pounded from more enemies than any location on the board..

It has already been mentioned using a circular universe concept, and using the galactic rim (round universe like a plate) style universe - unfortunatly galactic rim would be a pain to program so I'd advise against that one as it would be very buggy for a long while..

But the circular universe (or pass through borders as it is called in gaming biz') is a very viable tactical option.. although it is a totally unreal and fictional universe concept - it does make it a level playing field for all players..

In short - pass through borders =- means that at the borders it goes directly to the other side of universe at the point that you crossed the border.. Every player will have exactly the same playing advantage as the map is equal in all directions..

example : with your 12x12 grid universe - if you went across the border at 12:8 you would come out at location 0:8 - and if you crossed at 8:12 your next move location would be 8:0... obviously 0:0 is opposite of 12:12,... but again keep the image of a rubics cube in your mind with this concept as there are 26 location points that the ship can move into as it's next universe point..

This would need a time/distance calculator that calculates across border in a point by point format.. But each player would have the same number of galaxys at the same distances as every other player - the furtherest distance being the halfway point across map. (IE: 0,0 would be equal distance to 6:6 no matter which direction across the map you went)

One good Pro to this concept is you can change the jumpgate to actually be very useful... Just make any fleet using the jumpgate (and it's targeting) an exact amount of time (universal) no matter what size and speed of the individual ships - and no matter what the target galaxy is.. Maybe make it eta-7 no matter which galaxy you aim the JG and no matter what you send through this special device..

anyway -- Just a few thoughts - I know this is going to be a pain to program no matter what you do - so I'll say thanks for your teams hard work in advance...

Remby...

[Prophey]

Although i've only played rounds 7 - 9, I can honestly say that round 8 was by and large the best round.

Total random + prebuilt alliances works. Yes, you do end up getting big fights, e.g. 100 fleets on one planet, but it's still enjoyable.

It forces people to meet new people, and forcing them to work together regardless on their alliance, that's if they want their gal to go somewhere.

Private gals truly and deeply killed the game.

I've said it, and a lot of people I know have said the same, we will not be playing if the game isn't fully random.

Private gals = blocking. Even if you have longer travel times, there will still be pre-built alliances and they'll just work together and form a block with others in the area (e.g. narweet) and dominate the "sector" so to speak.

Changing the travel time won't make a difference if said narweet block has most of the gals in a specific said area.

Also, one question for spinner: you've said previously in CH's that you were going to fix the problem of people not having to stay up till 3am in the morning to send attacks, how do you still propose to do that? with the extended travel times.

[LordBlackheart2000]

Originally posted by Borg_31373
That idea I do like m8, an intel scan thats score/size related (only I would suggest based on the roids owned by the gal as a whole as thats gonna stop some small guy in gal doing the scans for cheap). And the idea of the attack coming in without any warning is cool, but in truth it would perhaps be better that the attack was only detected at say eta 2, too l8 to get def, but early enough that you could run if you wanted to save ya ships and give up ya roids

yes but if you have these types of attacks what the point of having extended Eta's with your Suggestion of the defender can only see an attack at eta 2, would mean you could launch your attack against anyone in the universe and they could do bugger all about it, unless they happened to be online during those 2 hrs.


Another problem With eta's growing depending on distance is the fact that if you say find yourself a nice target, you work out what sort of fleet to send to get you max cap, and if your like me not a great fan on killing a planet just cause you can, You turn up 24hrs later he would of grown quite a bit in that time thus making your fleet, pretty useless against his. This would mean the further your Target is away from you the greater amount of ships you would need to send, and this would end up being a case of bashing someone to hell just to make sure you get something.

Cause even atm if you send a fleet that is balanced to take a planets roids away, and he has been away for 6 ticks then the amount of time it takes to get there say 8 ticks, that can be quite a lot of new ships to handle. Which is good in a way, makes you think more about what to send depending on his resources etc.

But to have an attack that lasts 24hrs or more or even beyond 12hrs would make fleet comp a difficult thing to do, Thus enter better just bash him instead and have a roiding fleet behind least i'll get something for wasting 2 days to attack someone.

Cupelix

[woze]

hi i dont say much.. but this deserves my 2 cents.


if your gona make a change as big as this you need to make other BIG changes.

i podered the following things that might make things good..

you might want to consider the following

1. making clusters 3d implementing the standard jumpgate eta + how far away the gal is. 3 x 3 x 3 clusters.

2. make attack ticks longer.
i dont want to have a 30 tick arrival time to have to recall cause i had a bad first tick.

3. make gals a maximum of their planets total score divided by a number. this would give n00bs a shot. example: a gal a:a can be 100 members big if they are all 100k score but once the member ratio increases by their score/size being to big, a random member will be "bumped" into a:b to prevent the gal from having massive players in it. and from being massive. stopping at 10 members.

giving n00bs the eta advantage.
but once the are "big enough to defend themselves" they get bumped out of the galaxy.

in essence let as many planets be in a cluster as they want. but set a limit for how much score a single cluster can have. so when a score/member gets to big he litterally takes up all the room in the cluster and all other planets get "bumped" out and have to have a higher eta to get there.


5. give planets the option to move to specific coordinate. this goes well with the 3D gal idea i had. and this allows n00bs to hide in the darkness of space. you would need to scan a cluster and it would say (scan: cluster a. it would say "found 118 planets".. so you would check a:b = "found 20 planets" and since the y coordinate would be chosen by the planet owner he would have the choice to be in any number between lets say 1 and 50 but the gal size would still remain constant and under-cap at 10.


6.an option to help big and small alliances:
give a position to be able to move A WHOLE cluster.. so that a big alliance can get up and move to another cluster and fight with lower eta's and give the smaller alliances a chance to move and run. so that clusters: f:g and x:y can duke it out..
( give a travel option to a cluster so that it can move closer but also have a set limit to how close it can get. they would have to enter coordinates. then move there. being as close or as far as they want. )


7. get rid of vacation mode.
you cant in reality " save your planet from doom".. but make it so that in scans your roids help give away your coords. and by turning them off.. your planet "fades away".. we all know planets and asteroids make light and bring our attention in the night sky.. but if they were clustered.. then they would make more light.. but by turning htem off.. they arent as visible.. ( thus letting cons and res still keep going )


8. place initiated roids in random places in the universe.. ( not nessesarily in a planet )
but this is also meant to work with the "being able to move a whole planet anyways" )
there are asteroids as big as planets that arent considered planets because they arent revolving around the sun.. but as they move through the universe they attract other small asteroids that soon orbit them. letting people who cant find a big alliance "travel" the universe and find initiated asteroids as they go on their way. letting n00bs have a big pay day and still be hidden to the big alliances..

9.with so many scans going on about to check gals.. lets make them cheaper.

10 get a color picture of you in a dress.. i reckon i deserve to see it..

Why we are all looking at how this would work, we see an unfair advantage to those in the middle. They would also have more incoming. This would mean more active players here but if you played right have more targets and a better chance to get roids. You also have to realize if 1:1 decided to venture out a small bit to 25:10 it would take 38 ticks. That is 38 to get there plus 3 to attack plus 38 to get home. That is 79 ticks. Right now the game has 50 some odd clusters. No one would even try that so why say how long it would be. But 79 is over 3 days. In that time you could have been completly roided by people 1/4 your size. So to stop this you are only going to launch at people alot smaller than you so you can keep a good bit of your fleet at home. Hello noobie bashing. It will also lead to galaxys close to bigger galaxys not having a chance. As it will be conveniant to roid them every time they get some, with little need to expand, because it will take 79 ticks for somone in the middle of the universe to get to you. Putting a cap on it would help some, but what cap? 12 hours the right time, or is 10 hours the right time? The 8 hours we have now is almost to long for me. But all in all i this would just lead people to hit the newbies and supress gals close to them. I;m not a great writer so forgive me for mistakes. -Zany

[Fred of Bedrock]

Spinner sucks


and its been thought of before and rejscted before and the centre gals get an advantage over the ones at an end.... another rehashed idea.... thought it was a game of new ideas

[Satoeng]

I like this idea.
If the battles become more territorial, the alliances still might have the control but they at least will have to work for local control. Eta 24 (wouldnt put it higher then that though, might become too boring otherwise) will give even single attackers to succeed vs many slower defenders from an ally.
Also can you make the universe circular.
I mean so that peeps that are in 1:1 wont have a disadvantage.So we could imagine them being next to the last gal connected in a round universe system and decreasing the travel time.

The univers shouldn't be made flat it should be made round as it has been proposed before. For the sake of argument we take the universe and place on a round planet. no matter where you are there is always people on all sides of you and it is very dificult to get to the other side. This solves the problem with "being on the fringe" of the universe because everyone has an equal number of targets.
This can be difficult because it is hard to place every galaxy just right when you don't know how many there will be but im sure that a shulfe algorithm could make sure everony is placed right.

This will also incurage more ingame alliance forming, breaking, waring and generaly making it important to speak with the guys nextdoor

I like the idea with a worm hole connecting two galaxies with a very low travel time not 1 though this will encourage sister gals to form. This should for be for defensive purposes ONLY. breaking and opening new wormholes should be posible but with a "cooldown" period for the wormhole generator.

The problem with a galaxy controling a whole sector and running out of targets is well their problem they will just have to stop roiding the secotr dry and do somthing else(don't ask me what though)

Two galaxies placed so far apart from eachother that they can hardly reach eachother is not a problem in my eyes it give the game more diversity and you know that next round will not be the same as last round at all.

It should be an option to exile one self as it is now which would allow ppl who endeed up in a sector where they get roided everytime they get 8 roids to get some fresh air.

personally i'd like to see the big guys hit the big guys instead of big guys hitting a little less bigger guys.

random is ofc mandated its good to meet new ppl and try something new.

Erk

[Knight Theamion]

the maths to make it round isn't like that hard is it ?

[Eol]

This is an idea with potential, Spinner, however I think you will find that it will not be very welcoming to newcomers. One of the problems with clusters has been that smaller gals get repeatedly picked on by larger neighbours, untill they give up. It was similar with parallels except that in round 4 the uni was of a size in which there was at least a bit of 'target rotation' - you tended not to get incoming every night unless you were one of a few 'borderline elite' galaxies. There is one important difference though. In round 4 you *could* with some effort roid out of para. In this setup there is no way you can roid outside your local area. You will see the winners keep picking and picking and picking on their smaller neighbours, who will then quit (and probably not return).

Doing def calls and so on out of protection shows that there is no problem with a high ETA system but only if it is uniwide. If your incoming was eta8 at tick100 chances are you were in trouble unless your galaxy could cover it in-gal or you could build enough ships in time to stop the incoming. However, if there is still always def to be found in a closer and closer vicinity you will see very swiftly that attacking a serious galaxy is going to be impossible.

Add in a dash of exponential growth (why aren't you addressing *this* problem by making total roid income follow a logarithmic pattern as number of roids is increased?) and you have a fatally flawed game system in my opinion.

This change on its own I feel would entrench stagnation into the game mechanics as much as game politics. The minimum eta should be higher than 5 (let us sleep for the love of god). The maximum eta should be probably around 12-16 ticks. It needs to be possible to attack far away to a certain extent as well.

Next point - players. I seriously hope you aren't relying on your little two-week trial to bring up your customer amount to the extent where there are a lot of new players indeed interacting with the old ones. I think possibly you might want to consider letting random accounts for example either go cheaper or completely free. This is because, potentially for alliances this kind of setup is only possible either with gigantic alliances or huge blocks - you need to get enough presence in each area or the alliance suffers. No alliance will willingly, I think, accept that. So unless you really really really dilute the alliance players with new players you again have a problem.

Just my initial reaction.

[Eol]

Yea, it needs to be closed by without an edge. Ie wraparound.

[Black_Kat]

sounds good to me....i'm somewhat of a newbie who always goes random cos my life doesn't revolve around PA so friends i make are from round to round and hardly ever carried over.... i think it's more exciting that way. All these others are insecure "oh, my friends are too far away, they can't defend me...wah wah wah" so make new friends. my own personal opinion is eta 12hrs should be max that 24hrs is way too long...i can't stand that it takes 72hrs for some construction. random galaxies is a must! a galaxy of all friends is way too much advantage for that galaxy cos u know they are all sharing login info, launching attacks/defense for each other etc...that happens less in a random galaxy. also for folks saying that certain middle galaxies will have an advantage...that thing MOS posted here about maybe periodic shuffles...i think that idea implemented along with this would really shake the game up and be alot of fun...and it would for once give folks like me a fighting chance to compete. All you ppl who are so great at the game...this scenario is your chance to prove how good you are WITHOUT your friends and your HUGE annoying alliances having your back all the time. you all have had 9rounds....give us non-l33t players a round...or at least a chance.

[MOS]

idea:

Make it so u dont know an attack is comming untill the fleet enters your galaxy. Therefore if it takes 24 hours to get there the people being attacked want have all that time to get defence. But also make it so any gal the attack fleet passes through can also see it for the 1 tick that its there, thus if they r allied with you then they can give you earlier warning and thus also send defence. Or even better beable to attack the fleet as it passes through there gal.

[hyfe]

Originally posted by bear
Interesting idea! Though I do hope this wouldnt be combined with full random gals. Imo the luck factor would become too big in that case.

One suggestion which I agree with, which was already said... Make like the max traveltime something like 15 hours.

Setting and even smaller max defence traveltime for people sharing the same tag would go some way to help reduce the problem of old friends not being able to help eachother too.

Either way; doing a very differentianed traveltime on defence, and a flatter/flat one on attacks might be a viable idea too (or the other way around). There is no need to keep defense & attack times the same; and by allowing one of them to be still done by large alliances, you don't break the alliances open straight away. Because sundering and ruining the pa-based friendships and co-ops alot of players have would be disastrous to pa.

[Eol]

Periodic reshuffles could really make the game fun, bringing different galaxies bearing down on each other close by.

[Spoticus]

Wouldnt an idea like that simply limit the size of the universe you have access to even more?

[MAdnRisKy]

Originally posted by Eol
Periodic reshuffles could really make the game fun, bringing different galaxies bearing down on each other close by.

It'd be like playing in "the cube"

[Merlin]

Originally posted by Dreadnought!
I see a flaw

say there are 50 clusters and 10 parralels

25:5 would have an unfair advantage as compared to say 50:10

as it would have double the gals to hit at half the eta


as there is no 51:11 but there is a 26:6


See my point? :\

It gives an unfair advantage at the start

Wrap the end and the begining around on itself like a big circle.....that way theres no advantage to being at one end or the other over the middleof the whole thing, it just wraps back around on itself at the ends...assuming it can be programmed that way :/

Merlin

[Jaric]

I love the idea. Much more realistic.

For those that are concerned, why not create an alternative form of the jumpgate; each player can construct a fleet jumpgate that can shift a single fleet at the usual 8 tick rate, but has to be constructed with a cost based on score, takes, say 72 hours to build and has to be rebuilt after use.

That way it remains expensive to use even for big players, but those who really hate the new travel times can have a fleetgate standing by for use in emergencies or in those big attacks the alliances love.

It means you can attack all over the universe, but nowhere near often enough to rape a gal across the far side. It's an investment that you have to consider carefully

[Gorgoroth]

[quote]Originally posted by Spinner

Well... I think its not good. Since nobody can predetermine where they are gona be in the uni... If You get in the middle all get shorter traveltime to You and You to them, but if You get stuck to the rim? You can only choose to attack the peep's next to You cause it's plain stupid to try and attack someone 24 tick's away, that plain sux in my oppinion, now the whole idea of warp or jupgate is folding the space time continuom? right? Well I say lez just keep it that way. If You wanna fidle with traveltime please just stick with the overburn stuf or sumthing.

[Twist]

stupid idea.

this idea is old....hear it in the past allready.
but as usual spinner wont listen and do as he likes...and ruins the game for even more people.

[Tomkat]

38 hours sleep eh? Fabulous.

[Guran]

I have to agree with many when I say this is the worst idea ever. Traveltimes greater than 12 hrs in any form are ridiculous. It takes away the intensity and dedication many people have for this game. The changes You (Spinner) make are just too damn radical. You are not intentionally trying to replace the memberbase with a new one (which don't know of better), are you?!

When you more or less prevent us from playing with our friends, you're killing the game. I think I'm speaking for many when I say that playing with friends is the issue here. Preventing us to play with our friends (as we have forever) can't be good for the community, the game, for anything!

Sure I was expecting a lot of new changes for R10 but I never saw this coming. If traveltime could be anything from 7 to 24 hours it's just insane and not thought throughoutly. Giving such small glimps of what you're planning for next round couldn't get any other reaction from the community, could it? When you want to discuss new planned features, you have to give us more, for us to see the big picture.

[Tomkat]

Originally posted by Eol
Periodic reshuffles could really make the game fun, bringing different galaxies bearing down on each other close by.

I quite like this idea actually. Means intel will constantly have to be updated, which makes it harder again for big alliances (which is the idea of this new implementation). Perhaps not an exact reshuffle, but maybe a slow one, every week or so? Like we all shift 1 "coord" either up or down on both parallel and cluster. So at the beginning of the week if you were 5:5, you could then be 5:6, 6:6, 4:6, or 4:4. An idea to consider, perhaps?

However, would all this not make it MORE complicated for the smaller players? A small alliance simply doesnt have the time to keep re-gathering data for intel. I'm not saying "omfg spinn0r you fool you've made yet another mistake, ruined this game i am still playing even though you've ruined it apparently", just saying... well good luck. :P

[Vencedor]

Hey...
Didn't read everyone's ideas but that's cuz It's giving me a headache...lol.

This is what I think most people will agree will make it AWESOME!

Ok, PA has always had 1:2:3
What about you make it..
1:2:3:4!!

(1:2:3:4) set the max for
1.- Whatever needed! (universes)
2.- 2 (clusters)
3.- 5 (galaxies)
4.- 15 (ppl in galaxies)
So, in each 'Universe' you would have...
150 people...

Get it?
Yes, thats right, an extra coord to remember...
There would be different UNIVERESES!

To give you the formula I thourght of, here it is...

to go from 1:1:1:5 to 4:2:4:8
would be this..
5 (to travel to universe 4/default travel time.. NONchangable)
+ 1 (to travel to cluster 2)
+ 3 (to travel to galaxy 4)
+ 3 (to travel to #8 in galaxy)
So, all up it would take 12 ticks...


The max ETA you could get would be...
From 1:1:1:1 to 1:2:5:15 which would be...
5 (to travel to universe 1/default travel time.. NONchangable)
+ 1 (to travel to cluster 2)
+ 4 (to travel to galaxy 5)
+ 14 (to travel to #15 in galaxy)
24 ticks... maybe set a max of 15, or leave it without a restriction.

What you all think?!

Also, this would have to work in reverse
eg. with a 'round universe' it would have to work say...
It there were only 5:2:5:15 players in the game it would have to let you travel 'reverse' around to 1:1:1:1... get it?

Well, that's my idea and I must say, I think it's very nice

-=] Vencedor [=-

Ps. idea from a 14yr old \o/ lol

[Tactitus]

The idea of travel time based on geography isn't new--it's been suggested many times. I will assume the universe wraps around, otherwise the idea is just stupid--even by PA standards. I will also assume the travel time gradient (that is, how much travel time changes as you move across the universe), is significant; otherwise there's no point in doing this.

Conceptionally, it seems like it would work a lot like parallels did in r4. Those who remember r4 will recall that the parallel travel-time advantage mostly trumped the universe travel time. If you were on the wrong end of parallel alliance war, then your out-of-parallel alliance mates couldn't do much to help you. Conversely, attacking out of parallel was difficult; especially if you attacked someone in a good parallel alliance.

Judging from the many comments on R4 and parallels in the forums, the community opinion on R4 is rather divided. Some people really liked it; others hated it; still others are indifferent. Consequently, I don't see how this proposal would be received much differently. Players who, through luck or skill, manage to land in a powerful local alliance will love it--they will be able to rape and pillage their local area with impunity. Those on the receiving end will hate it, because they be unable to find help locally and everyone else will be just too far away.

Is this sort of feature we can expect in R10? It doesn't seem all that innovative to me. :/

[edit]P.S. Why wasn't this posted in the Questions to the Players forum?[/edit]

I have to say this is teh best thig to happen to PA since the revamp of combat back in round 2.

This new mode of travel could have potential to alter ships, research, combat strategies, alliance formation, battle tactics, everything. Hard and fast raids performed by large players on small ones will no longer be the norm once they exhuast their neighbors, instead large scale galaxtic combat using all ship types (not just the fastest) will be the most certain way to obtain roids. And if a ship adds one ETA, who gives a damn? PDS also obtains a new role. Now you can depend on your friends to back you if you ahve a hostile neighbor, you need the hardcore Defence ability that a well made PDS can offer.
I want to see this happen. If so i will play in future rounds

[joneggson]

i can see big galaxies appearing that control their areas and continuosly bash the surrounding gals. then simialar big gals cannot fight each other directly without stupid etas for the #1 spot.

Also blocks will get bigger so that ppl will have enough friends close by statistically to make a decent bg/dg. and i guess alliances will make wings to try and cope.

personally i don't like the idea. you want to increase the number of targets not reduce it even more!

[Weeks]

Dear God Spinner this looks like a good idea. As long as the universe it warped that is

However i do see a disadvantage
1) Friends want to play together, or at least be able to help each other out. Which may not be possible in this universe.
However it will force people to meet new friends And if you keep private gals it wont be that much of a problem.
* In relation to this problem... maybe you could make it so whole planets/bases could move to different star systems. I know this brings up a lot of issues, example: borg-like invasions of sectors by alliances, but it's worth a thought.


Overall this seems like a good idea, and i may even play round 10 if you do implement it

Another idea
--------------------
If we're going for the whole sector-like universe can we have a better parallel browsing system.
Keep the system the same for skipping to other parallels- but instead of clicking on another button to get to each cluster of the parallel have a little image-map of the parallel a ture space picture. So you would see a picture of the parallel in space, and you could view each cluster by clicking the on the map. Would make it easier to imagine your actually in space Dodgy explanation i know, but i think you get my drift

If you are going to make the universe more realistic like this, I think there is a lot more thinking to be done as to HOW realistic you want it. If I send my fleet of ships to someone's planet, and they send a fleet of ships to mine, in "reality" would those two fleets not meet somewhere along the way? It seems that the whole logic behind battle and travel in this game is very linear. Why does the battlefield ONLY occur at someone's planet? If the travel time is 32 hours to get to someone's planet, and 32 to get back, I think it would make sense to be able to send out a fleet of fast ships or "fighters" to intercept that attack, or send some ships out after you've been attacked to try to recover some of your losses. Usually in any kind of space sci-fi universe, you send out fighters WITH your big ships to protect them from a mid-space ambush.

I think the higher travel times would be kind of cool, assuming you didn't just click "send" and wait for 64 hours to see your fleet back home. Give the mid-space fleets things to do while they are flying for 5 days. Mid space combat, docking ports, etc...

Another idea I saw earlier and liked was the idea of sending fleets to someone else's planet to make an organized attack. This would allow friends to attack with friends, but would also be noticed by surrounding planets that something big was happening in a planet near by.

[Weeks]

If your going to have a warped table-like coords system would be interesting to know how you will implement it.

sectors:

1  2  3  4  5  
6  7  8  9  10
11 12 13 14 15
16 17 18 19 20

* so sector 8 will be neighbours with 2, 3, 4, 7, 9, 12, 13 and 14.

i.e.

1  2  3  4  5  
6  7  8  9   10
11 12 13 14  15
16 17 18 19 20

* sector 1 will be neighbours with 20, 16, 17, 10, 7, 15, 11 and 12

i.e.

1  2  3  4  5  
6  7  8  9  10
11 12 13 14 15
16 17 18 19 20

* sector 20 will be neighbours with 14, 15, 11, 19, 16, 4, 5 and 1
* sector 11 will be neighbours with 10, 6, 7, 15, 12, 20, 17 and 17

with each sector having a group of say 4 gals. With 10 planets in a galaxy. So that's 800 players for 20 sectors.

Maybe be a little much for each sector to have 8 neighbours tho. Im not sure.

However the one problem i can find with this is say that the end universe ended up like:

1  2  3  4  5  
6  7  8  9  10
11 12 13 14 15
16 17

Im not sure if you could warped the universe the same. Fairly anyway. Probably can ive just not thought it through enough :P


Although implementing this could be difficult it would give the game life again.

instead of changing the travel time, why not change the eonium costs. mantain the same formula you have for travel time, but just make that your eonium costs. and yes, you have to make the universe circular. saying 1:1 is not next to 150:1 is the dumbest thing suggested.

to me making travel times longer really sucks as i cant stand the 12 hr time you start with now. and as someone pointed out earlier in this thread, nothing you do to change this game hurts big alliances more than the "average joe". adding features ingame to incoporate alliances is fine by me, but i dont think there is a way to eliminate blocking that keeps the game enjoyable to play. (not that getting hammered by a block every night is enjoyable)

[LordNieminen]

*sigh* I and carnis talked about this in bus last weekend on our way to army.. this eta thing is in a another online game works there(due to gals ain't as cooperative there as in here so inviduals can pretty much play for themselfs there aka they got thiefs etc).. anyways bit too long flight time that 24h.. *some time to build def* and you are u'rself vulnerable to retals in longer times.. maybe some new aspects to strat.. but tbh who has time to be on nervous for 12h etc when u have raided and raided etc all u'r neighbours.. maybe u'll end up allied with another gal.. but eventually u'll have to backstab it to get roids and have a chance for victory.

anyways can't really say what all makes me against this idea.. but generally i don't like it. but if u do it.. np.. i'll still try r10.. but after that.. no promises if it was a total failure.. so little players left anyways.

*edited part*
Maybe increase E cost for parals.. aka move it higher a lot if u want to travel long times.. much better in my opinion.. because otherwice so much depends on u'r neighbours and how good are they... if they suck... u can't really roid them... do to they don't got any roids like my gal mate said.

[Cap. Canneloni]

In the start and in the end of thinking the idea with variables Traveltimes is not bad, the only one thing i was wooried about is what´s with the "old" allies...... i mean in such a galaxysystem (if there are for r10 no private gal´s to buy) ToT would be too much splited for effective beeing ToT as allie @ defense and and and.

so in the end.

Traveltime good, but it could kill too the old alliances...pls be patient at such changes.

[ToT]Cap. Canneloni :eek:

[Cap. Canneloni]

If you are going to make the universe more realistic like this, I think there is a lot more thinking to be done as to HOW realistic you want it. If I send my fleet of ships to someone's planet, and they send a fleet of ships to mine, in "reality" would those two fleets not meet somewhere along the way? It seems that the whole logic behind battle and travel in this game is very linear. Why does the battlefield ONLY occur at someone's planet?

The fleet´s have to meet each other? hmm don´t think so....

Base travel time = 5 ticks. This can be viewed as the amount of time needed to get your ships from your planet and to your local jumpgate.

My opinion:

Fleet eta = Getting ships started, flying from fleet from planet to the gravity0zone of the system (galaxy), fly through the Jumpgate cross the Hyperspace untill coming in to Targetgalaxy @ gravity0-20%zone (20%grav is jump zone for Xan, thats why they have better eta and then the fleet´s start the landing to the target planet to raid him...... (and the same **** back)

[Khaine]

hmm Spinner... in a very ideal world, your idea might work... but it's not a very ideal world...

this would result in some players getting dropped in good geography, and some in bad ones... ( results from variety of activeness/skills/temperaments of players/galaxies )

the game would ends up being luck based, and practically ends up very early, when players finds out that they're located in a poor geography ( constant bashing, completely inactive galaxies around, etc )

it'll simply make the game very unfair, which is the other way around compared to where you should take the game to

but i guess some players wouldn't mind... and i might be biased, but i just prefer to make the game more fair to everyone, and not just groups of very lucky players...

my two cents...

[Jonas]

max eta 12!

[Ska]

forget making it so "people can play with their alliance m8s" all that has gotten us is a shrinking player base. Utopia randomness would be cool to have. Things stay status quo, the game dies.

Not to mention God forbid attacks have to be more individual...

plus launching an attack and getting a good nights sleep sounds like a great plus

[glaci3r]

I can say I am sick of reading "this idea is already been said" especially with it being followed by a "bad idea"

This idea has merit. If the game does not change round to round then it becomes monotonous. I think the best expansion on this idea is gridding or circling the grid system...

Personally as i was reading it, i thought of a system where your positions changed. Eol got to it before me but i wanna expand on it further.

 30   29  28  27  26
 13   12  11  10  25 
 14   3   2   9   24
 15   4   1   8   23
 16   5   6   7   22 
 17   18  19  20  21

it would basically circle around... in a really comlicated way... Just follow the numbers around in numerical order. 1 would move to 2, then 2 would move to 3.. and finally 30 would move to 1's spot. Travel time would all work on the grid system that Week's expanded on. This is to mimic the "Visual" movement of a spiraling galaxy.

I like the idea... But I agree with most people, a 16-tick max limit would do just fine rather than 24.

[Howling]

Sounds great to me however I would like to make a sugestion.

Instead of making the 1st and last clusters so far away would it be possible to configure it so the 1st gal 1:1 is right next door to the last gal say 25:25 .

By making the universe circular instead of flat, that nullifys the advantages of being stuck in the middle not on the edges.

With the possible long travel times I may play another round as this was going to be my last.

I can see a downside.. that is large defensive blocks with low etas defending slow attackers. Isnt this the reason that salvage from ships killed was abolished. You may be creating the same situation.

cheers

[Saitam]

What about fleet numbers, with only 3 fleets slots and high eta's we will perhaps be able to launch 1 attack a week (and 1-2 defences).

[whoop]

Spinner. I've seen this idea before, it was in another game - can't remember the name of it. Was written by some french dude, and the idea was you captured planets, traded between them, etc.

Anyway, just like you are suggesting, travel time depended on where you were in the universe.

It sounded good, but what would happen was that someone would attack you, and your allies would be about 50 hours away, and by the time they got there to help, you were dead.

I remember when I started playing the game, I thought it was great idea, but in practice it totally sucked.

What ended up happening was that a few players would dominate their respective corners of the universe. If you were a new planet in that area you basically lasted about 48 hours before you lost your planet completely - the good guys had killed all the planets nearby to them that were a threat.

Then they grew and grew till they met in the middle, but it was never a big fight, again because of the travel time. A battle would start, reinforcements would get sent in, they wouldn't get there in time, and it just kind of fizzled. Lots of complaining on the forums.

It sounds nice, but it sadly doesn't work.

-whoop

[Howling]

Originally posted by Khaine
but i guess some players wouldn't mind... and i might be biased, but i just prefer to make the game more fair to everyone, and not just groups of very lucky players...

You have to be kidding the current round is anything but fair with such a small player base and the major blocking i have a gal with some top players in it that havnt yet cracked it for a mill !!!

due to incs every single night

Anything that will break up the blocks and alliances.. yes including mine will be a big help to PA in general

Maybe ppl will have to get used to the idea that they will get whacked and there block wont be able to defend them.

Or maybe some leet players will have to form alliances with newbies and teach them things .
You might even find youself with some disgusting cows as neighbours.

Mooooooooooooooooooo

[Toop]

I hate this idea

[Sjor]

Originally posted by Spinner

It also means that going from 1:1 to 25:10 takes a mind-blowing 5+24+9=38 ticks.

<Sjor|afk> defence eta 38 needed any1 here?
<zaq> lol
<tony> lol
<Sjor|afk> nm ill try it tommorow same time