User Name
Password

Go Back   Planetarion Forums > Non Planetarion Discussions > General Discussions

Reply
Thread Tools Display Modes
Unread 16 Nov 2002, 13:12   #51
Nondescript Human
nondescript human
 
Nondescript Human's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,079
Nondescript Human has a brilliant futureNondescript Human has a brilliant futureNondescript Human has a brilliant futureNondescript Human has a brilliant futureNondescript Human has a brilliant futureNondescript Human has a brilliant futureNondescript Human has a brilliant futureNondescript Human has a brilliant futureNondescript Human has a brilliant futureNondescript Human has a brilliant futureNondescript Human has a brilliant future
Warfolcon is enragingly ignorant and should be banned whether or not he has actually breached any official board regulations.

His only value lies in the boosting of one's own self-esteem through his demonstrations of uninformed idiocy and sheer arrogance.
Nondescript Human is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 16 Nov 2002, 14:12   #52
deerbarn
Anal Crumb
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Liverpool
Posts: 1,126
deerbarn is a splendid one to beholddeerbarn is a splendid one to beholddeerbarn is a splendid one to beholddeerbarn is a splendid one to beholddeerbarn is a splendid one to beholddeerbarn is a splendid one to beholddeerbarn is a splendid one to behold
Quote:
Originally posted by Nixjim


Let em, that would be the act of a criminal. It is, and has been for years, illegal for criminals to posses or use guns. Doesn't stop them from doing it. But if an armed criminal breaks in, I may be able to stop him. If I'm unarmed and he isn't, the advantage is all his. No matter what anyone says, there is still no valid reason to disarm law abiding people, and any suggestion to do so stems from fear. I do not have a gun for protection from people, doubt I would use one on another person anyway, but that is beside the point. As I said before, I would rather be shot than give up the right for an honest, law abiding person to own a gun. The difference between me and the anti gun crowd is I say, if you don't want a gun fine, don't get one, it's YOUR CHOICE, Anti gunners want to remove free choice and force everyone to conform to their idea of what is right.
In short, what law doesnt stem from fear.
__________________
(MarilynManson) Im from Scotland
deerbarn is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 16 Nov 2002, 15:40   #53
Snurx
Dirte
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 5,573
Snurx spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldSnurx spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldSnurx spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldSnurx spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldSnurx spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldSnurx spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldSnurx spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldSnurx spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldSnurx spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldSnurx spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldSnurx spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus would
You make me sick.

I "hate" WarFalcon's opinions. He and me are completely different when it comes to political ideology and we have totaly different wievs on most matters.

BUT TO BAN HIM BEACAUSE OFF HIS THOUGTHS AND MEANINGS?

You make me sick! He has as much rigth as any off us to be here, you cant just ban him beacause off political meanings?

THATS FACISM!
__________________
"Freedom, morality, and the human dignity of the individual consists precisely in this; that he makes waffles not because he is forced to do so, but because he freely conceives it, wants it, and loves it."
Snurx is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 16 Nov 2002, 16:07   #54
Phang
Aardvark is a funny word
 
Phang's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: I'm No Nino Rota
Posts: 5,923
Phang has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Phang has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Phang has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Phang has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Phang has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Phang has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Phang has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Phang has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Phang has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Phang has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Phang has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
No ban. Possibly hired goons to pay him a personal visit, but the problems with his actions are not the kind you ban people for unless you're in some kind of debates organisation, where listening to your opponent is required.

I would, however, ban Rick, as his **** is also infused with discriminatory remarks and near-endless personal attacks.
__________________
Efficiency, efficiency they say
Get to know the date and tell the time of day
As the crowds begin complaining
How the Beaujolais is raining
Down on darkened meetings on the Champs Élysées
Phang is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 16 Nov 2002, 16:55   #55
Nodrog
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 8,476
Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Quote:
Originally posted by Makain
As much as I despise War Falcon the fact is I despise people who think only for themselves even more..
Who do you want me to think for?
Nodrog is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 16 Nov 2002, 17:01   #56
JonnyBGood
Banned
 
JonnyBGood's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Further to the right
Posts: 19,441
JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Quote:
Originally posted by Nodrog
Who do you want me to think for?


Some poor romanian. And he thinks for you. It's got to work!
__________________
Some might ask what good is life without purpose but I'm anticipating a good lunch.
JonnyBGood is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 16 Nov 2002, 17:16   #57
acropolis
Vermin Supreme
 
acropolis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 3,280
acropolis single handedly makes these forums a better placeacropolis single handedly makes these forums a better placeacropolis single handedly makes these forums a better placeacropolis single handedly makes these forums a better placeacropolis single handedly makes these forums a better placeacropolis single handedly makes these forums a better placeacropolis single handedly makes these forums a better placeacropolis single handedly makes these forums a better placeacropolis single handedly makes these forums a better placeacropolis single handedly makes these forums a better placeacropolis single handedly makes these forums a better place
Quote:
Originally posted by Jammers



Its a political statement. Theres no God in it (apart fromt the one the state is seperate from), and it isn't used as a tool of oppression like most religous documents.

If it is a religous document, then the US is a fundamentalist country, which needs liberating á la Afghanistan.
By saying that it isn't religious because there is no 'god' in it you just cut out 1/2 of the world's religions. congrats.

and by saying that religious documents are always used to oppress you managed to offend the rest.

As to whether it is a political statement, the koran describes how governments should be put together, as does the old testament. you have to pay attention to get political philosophy from the new testament, but it is there.

More than anything else, the prophets wrote down the word of god 200 years ago (they did indeed believe god was telling them what to write), and the high priests today debate endlessly about what was truly meant in there. 'religious'

And anyway nobody is against fundamentalism as long as it not used to damage human rights etc.

Nodrog: I actually like the constitution. Some of the parts look a little outdated (election systems), but they made sense at the time and they built in a method of changing it so it could stay with the times. Our fault if we are to slow to adjust it.

However, it is only as good as the people who interpret it. Oh well.
acropolis is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 16 Nov 2002, 17:24   #58
eple
Voodoo chile
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: a little island in Nor-ay
Posts: 227
eple is an unknown quantity at this point
Quote:
Originally posted by Snurx
You make me sick.

I "hate" WarFalcon's opinions. He and me are completely different when it comes to political ideology and we have totaly different wievs on most matters.

BUT TO BAN HIM BEACAUSE OFF HIS THOUGTHS AND MEANINGS?

You make me sick! He has as much rigth as any off us to be here, you cant just ban him beacause off political meanings?

THATS FACISM!

somtimes, just sometimes, getting rid of a pain in the ass can be more rewarding than securing free speech to all 24/7 (and that comes from a journalist too :P)
When did free speech ever stop the mods from banning anybody? a prick is a prick (even if he is an American, and thus should be given special care agaist the evuhl european terrorist-lovers).

btw: keep WF, he is an ignorant tosser, but at least he makes the discussions interesting.
__________________
"Nästa melodi som bob hund skall spela nu skrevs långt... långt, långt innan polisen började KASTA... avundsjuka blickar på ungdomarna som speglade sig i skyltfönstren som låg på marken!... Tolka det hur fan ni vill!... Vissa revolutioner sker i badrummet, andra på andra stanser; det är bara upp till er! Det är inte alltid det räcker med att slå hårdare ifrån sig än man behöver! Ibland räcker det med att säga SKÖT DU MITT, SÅ SKÖTER JAG DITT! SKÖT DU MITT, SÅ SKÖTER JAG DITT!!!"
eple is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 16 Nov 2002, 21:35   #59
Ska
Waging a war on errorism
 
Ska's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Come Clarity
Posts: 249
Ska has a reputation beyond reputeSka has a reputation beyond reputeSka has a reputation beyond reputeSka has a reputation beyond reputeSka has a reputation beyond reputeSka has a reputation beyond reputeSka has a reputation beyond reputeSka has a reputation beyond reputeSka has a reputation beyond reputeSka has a reputation beyond reputeSka has a reputation beyond repute
Quote:
Originally posted by eple


btw: keep WF, he is an ignorant tosser, but at least he makes the discussions interesting.
Yes, just because he disagrees with you he is an ignorant tosser.
__________________
Titans forever.
Ska is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 16 Nov 2002, 21:49   #60
eple
Voodoo chile
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: a little island in Nor-ay
Posts: 227
eple is an unknown quantity at this point
Quote:
Originally posted by Ska


Yes, just because he disagrees with you he is an ignorant tosser.
was that what said? He is an ignorant tosser, and he could easily prove to be one no matter what meanings he has. Nonetheless, I would believe that such a blind and fanatic belief in a more than 200 years old document which is flawed to say the least, proves a solid amount of ignorance.
__________________
"Nästa melodi som bob hund skall spela nu skrevs långt... långt, långt innan polisen började KASTA... avundsjuka blickar på ungdomarna som speglade sig i skyltfönstren som låg på marken!... Tolka det hur fan ni vill!... Vissa revolutioner sker i badrummet, andra på andra stanser; det är bara upp till er! Det är inte alltid det räcker med att slå hårdare ifrån sig än man behöver! Ibland räcker det med att säga SKÖT DU MITT, SÅ SKÖTER JAG DITT! SKÖT DU MITT, SÅ SKÖTER JAG DITT!!!"
eple is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 16 Nov 2002, 21:58   #61
MrL_JaKiri
The Twilight of the Gods
 
MrL_JaKiri's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 23,481
MrL_JaKiri has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.MrL_JaKiri has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.MrL_JaKiri has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.MrL_JaKiri has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.MrL_JaKiri has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.MrL_JaKiri has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.MrL_JaKiri has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.MrL_JaKiri has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.MrL_JaKiri has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.MrL_JaKiri has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.MrL_JaKiri has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Quote:
Originally posted by Scoot951
WF actually uses 'logic' to make 'arguments'.
Good thing you put them in inverted commas, as most of the time it's pseudologic at best.
MrL_JaKiri is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 16 Nov 2002, 22:13   #62
Ska
Waging a war on errorism
 
Ska's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Come Clarity
Posts: 249
Ska has a reputation beyond reputeSka has a reputation beyond reputeSka has a reputation beyond reputeSka has a reputation beyond reputeSka has a reputation beyond reputeSka has a reputation beyond reputeSka has a reputation beyond reputeSka has a reputation beyond reputeSka has a reputation beyond reputeSka has a reputation beyond reputeSka has a reputation beyond repute
Quote:
Originally posted by eple


was that what said? He is an ignorant tosser, and he could easily prove to be one no matter what meanings he has. Nonetheless, I would believe that such a blind and fanatic belief in a more than 200 years old document which is flawed to say the least, proves a solid amount of ignorance.
Please enlighten me what the extensive flaws of the consitution are?

Specifics would be nice; something other than "It allows that country to be run by a bunch of fascist self absorbed pricks."
__________________
Titans forever.

Last edited by Ska; 16 Nov 2002 at 22:19.
Ska is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 16 Nov 2002, 22:21   #63
eple
Voodoo chile
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: a little island in Nor-ay
Posts: 227
eple is an unknown quantity at this point
Quote:
Originally posted by Ska


Please enlighten me what the extensive flaws of the consitution are?
the flaws must be seen as the constitution's inabillity to fit into the current society. Many factors have changed since the time of the making of the American constitution. The Gun lobby's misuse of the constitution's rules on private gun possession is an example. The point was that the people should have their own guns to be ready to overthrow the government if it turned against the people. Nowadays, such a scenario is unlikely to say the least, yet all citizens are allowed posession of guns with almost no restrictions. The consequenses should be obvious to most of us.
__________________
"Nästa melodi som bob hund skall spela nu skrevs långt... långt, långt innan polisen började KASTA... avundsjuka blickar på ungdomarna som speglade sig i skyltfönstren som låg på marken!... Tolka det hur fan ni vill!... Vissa revolutioner sker i badrummet, andra på andra stanser; det är bara upp till er! Det är inte alltid det räcker med att slå hårdare ifrån sig än man behöver! Ibland räcker det med att säga SKÖT DU MITT, SÅ SKÖTER JAG DITT! SKÖT DU MITT, SÅ SKÖTER JAG DITT!!!"
eple is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 16 Nov 2002, 22:35   #64
WarFalcon
Freedom First
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Holding the line...
Posts: 243
WarFalcon is an unknown quantity at this point
Quote:
Originally posted by eple


the flaws must be seen as the constitution's inabillity to fit into the current society. Many factors have changed since the time of the making of the American constitution. The Gun lobby's misuse of the constitution's rules on private gun possession is an example. The point was that the people should have their own guns to be ready to overthrow the government if it turned against the people. Nowadays, such a scenario is unlikely to say the least, yet all citizens are allowed posession of guns with almost no restrictions. The consequenses should be obvious to most of us.

By your logic we don't need a Constitution at all since in your eyes the government abusing its power is 'unlikely'
WarFalcon is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 16 Nov 2002, 22:35   #65
Ska
Waging a war on errorism
 
Ska's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Come Clarity
Posts: 249
Ska has a reputation beyond reputeSka has a reputation beyond reputeSka has a reputation beyond reputeSka has a reputation beyond reputeSka has a reputation beyond reputeSka has a reputation beyond reputeSka has a reputation beyond reputeSka has a reputation beyond reputeSka has a reputation beyond reputeSka has a reputation beyond reputeSka has a reputation beyond repute
Quote:
Originally posted by eple


the flaws must be seen as the constitution's inabillity to fit into the current society. Many factors have changed since the time of the making of the American constitution. The Gun lobby's misuse of the constitution's rules on private gun possession is an example. The point was that the people should have their own guns to be ready to overthrow the government if it turned against the people. Nowadays, such a scenario is unlikely to say the least, yet all citizens are allowed posession of guns with almost no restrictions. The consequenses should be obvious to most of us.
Its not a matter of is it likely, its the idea that if you want to own a gun, you can own a gun. I personally wouldn't touch one but if my neighbor wants to exercise his right to own one I wont begrudge him anything. I do think that people who break gun laws (or any laws for that matter) need to be dealt with more harshly than they are now.
__________________
Titans forever.
Ska is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 16 Nov 2002, 22:39   #66
Nodrog
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 8,476
Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Quote:
Originally posted by eple


the flaws must be seen as the constitution's inabillity to fit into the current society. Many factors have changed since the time of the making of the American constitution. The Gun lobby's misuse of the constitution's rules on private gun possession is an example. The point was that the people should have their own guns to be ready to overthrow the government if it turned against the people. Nowadays, such a scenario is unlikely to say the least, yet all citizens are allowed posession of guns with almost no restrictions. The consequenses should be obvious to most of us.
Youve found one point which you dont agree with, but which the majority of your country does, and this is the logic you use to condemn the Constitution as 'antiquated'. Nice one!

Heres a question: why do you think the Constitution exists?
Nodrog is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 16 Nov 2002, 22:53   #67
eple
Voodoo chile
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: a little island in Nor-ay
Posts: 227
eple is an unknown quantity at this point
Quote:
Originally posted by Nodrog
Youve found one point which you dont agree with, but which the majority of your country does, and this is the logic you use to condemn the Constitution as 'antiquated'. Nice one!

Heres a question: why do you think the Constitution exists?
Okay: get me right on this one. I am not an American, as shown in "location". I am Norwegian. In Norway, we also have a constitution, made in 1814 which we are wery proud of and celebrate every may the 17. However, there are times when we realise that the constitution has to be changed ot fit into new times.
An example is the Norwegian constitution, which had a nasty rule against jew immigration. This racist part of the constitution were shown to be wrong, and was changed in the late 1800's. Point is: every law must be flexible to fit into new standards. If a law causes damage to the people and the state, it is of no value no matter how old and "flawless" it might seem.

btw: I haven't got a really deep knowledge of the American constitution, I know only of a few examples like this. But it is more a manner of prinipals, to base laws on what's right, not what's written in anicent times.
__________________
"Nästa melodi som bob hund skall spela nu skrevs långt... långt, långt innan polisen började KASTA... avundsjuka blickar på ungdomarna som speglade sig i skyltfönstren som låg på marken!... Tolka det hur fan ni vill!... Vissa revolutioner sker i badrummet, andra på andra stanser; det är bara upp till er! Det är inte alltid det räcker med att slå hårdare ifrån sig än man behöver! Ibland räcker det med att säga SKÖT DU MITT, SÅ SKÖTER JAG DITT! SKÖT DU MITT, SÅ SKÖTER JAG DITT!!!"
eple is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 16 Nov 2002, 23:05   #68
Nixjim
Commander
 
Nixjim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: USA
Posts: 404
Nixjim is an unknown quantity at this point
Quote:
Originally posted by eple


the flaws must be seen as the constitution's inabillity to fit into the current society. Many factors have changed since the time of the making of the American constitution. The Gun lobby's misuse of the constitution's rules on private gun possession is an example. The point was that the people should have their own guns to be ready to overthrow the government if it turned against the people. Nowadays, such a scenario is unlikely to say the least, yet all citizens are allowed posession of guns with almost no restrictions. The consequenses should be obvious to most of us.
The Constitution was built to be flexible, that is why it has the built in ability to be amended. You think it is flawed, I think it is the best Constitution on earth today. The gun lobby does not misuse the second amendment, they mearly seek to keep what we have. The Bill of Rights was written to appease the States, they feared without it the Federal Government would soon become as bad as the English Government they had just escaped from. Private citizens fighting the Federal Government would lose, the idea was that the States would, if needed, overthrow a power mad Federal Government, using it's citizens Militia as an Army, since the main Army would be under the command of the Federal Government. Basically that is just what some states did in the Civil War, they just lacked the wide spread support to win. I've said it before and I say it now, there is no valid reason to disarm law abiding citizens, taking my guns away will not stop criminals from using guns against me. That should be obvious to any rational, logical person. The only solution that works is to enforce existing gun laws, and address and solve the underlying problems that cause gun abuse. Punishing 300 million law abiding people because a handful break the law is no solution, it is an attempt to avoid the issue by mis-directing the blame.
Nixjim is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 16 Nov 2002, 23:06   #69
Chrism
Governor General
 
Chrism's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: People's Republic of South Yorkshire
Posts: 739
Chrism is a jewel in the roughChrism is a jewel in the roughChrism is a jewel in the roughChrism is a jewel in the rough
He's a nice enough guy, and is far more interesting than some of you morons.
__________________
Va Va Voom
Chrism is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 16 Nov 2002, 23:07   #70
Nixjim
Commander
 
Nixjim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: USA
Posts: 404
Nixjim is an unknown quantity at this point
Quote:
Originally posted by eple


Okay: get me right on this one. I am not an American, as shown in "location". I am Norwegian. In Norway, we also have a constitution, made in 1814 which we are wery proud of and celebrate every may the 17. However, there are times when we realise that the constitution has to be changed ot fit into new times.
An example is the Norwegian constitution, which had a nasty rule against jew immigration. This racist part of the constitution were shown to be wrong, and was changed in the late 1800's. Point is: every law must be flexible to fit into new standards. If a law causes damage to the people and the state, it is of no value no matter how old and "flawless" it might seem.

btw: I haven't got a really deep knowledge of the American constitution, I know only of a few examples like this. But it is more a manner of prinipals, to base laws on what's right, not what's written in anicent times.
The US Constitution is designed to be flexible, it simply takes a major majority of States to Ratify any Amendment.
Nixjim is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 16 Nov 2002, 23:08   #71
Ska
Waging a war on errorism
 
Ska's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Come Clarity
Posts: 249
Ska has a reputation beyond reputeSka has a reputation beyond reputeSka has a reputation beyond reputeSka has a reputation beyond reputeSka has a reputation beyond reputeSka has a reputation beyond reputeSka has a reputation beyond reputeSka has a reputation beyond reputeSka has a reputation beyond reputeSka has a reputation beyond reputeSka has a reputation beyond repute
Quote:
Originally posted by eple


However, there are times when we realise that the constitution has to be changed ot fit into new times.


btw: I haven't got a really deep knowledge of the American constitution.
1. We do too, its called an amendment

2. If you do not have indepth knowledge of something how can you sit and blast on it?
__________________
Titans forever.
Ska is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 16 Nov 2002, 23:08   #72
Vermillion
Historian
 
Vermillion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Posts: 960
Vermillion is a name known to allVermillion is a name known to allVermillion is a name known to allVermillion is a name known to allVermillion is a name known to allVermillion is a name known to all
I do not particularily like Warfalcon's views, I think his extremist libertarian views are absurd and his single-mindedness when it comes to his beliefs severely restricts any opportunity he has for intellectual growth.

I would also heartily vote against any attempt to ban him. His views, while in my opinion silly, follow his own internal code, and he is not afraid to stand up for it. People accuse him of being completely nationalistic, but he criticises the US in specific instances more than most.

In the end, there are a lot of people here who serve as trolls, or who have views as extreme but which are not based on any kind of internal logic or sense. Line them up first.

I will continue to oppose the extreme nature of his oppinions, but if you are looking to ban people, there are a lot of people I can think of before him who should be on that list.
__________________
"This is Rumour control, here are the facts..."

"Et nunc, reges, intelligite, er udimini, qui judicati terram"
Vermillion is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 16 Nov 2002, 23:11   #73
eple
Voodoo chile
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: a little island in Nor-ay
Posts: 227
eple is an unknown quantity at this point
Quote:
Originally posted by Nixjim


The US Constitution is designed to be flexible, it simply takes a major majority of States to Ratify any Amendment.
then it's not too bloody flexible is it?

the poin't isn't what the USA does, it's what WF believes....
__________________
"Nästa melodi som bob hund skall spela nu skrevs långt... långt, långt innan polisen började KASTA... avundsjuka blickar på ungdomarna som speglade sig i skyltfönstren som låg på marken!... Tolka det hur fan ni vill!... Vissa revolutioner sker i badrummet, andra på andra stanser; det är bara upp till er! Det är inte alltid det räcker med att slå hårdare ifrån sig än man behöver! Ibland räcker det med att säga SKÖT DU MITT, SÅ SKÖTER JAG DITT! SKÖT DU MITT, SÅ SKÖTER JAG DITT!!!"
eple is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 16 Nov 2002, 23:12   #74
Ska
Waging a war on errorism
 
Ska's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Come Clarity
Posts: 249
Ska has a reputation beyond reputeSka has a reputation beyond reputeSka has a reputation beyond reputeSka has a reputation beyond reputeSka has a reputation beyond reputeSka has a reputation beyond reputeSka has a reputation beyond reputeSka has a reputation beyond reputeSka has a reputation beyond reputeSka has a reputation beyond reputeSka has a reputation beyond repute
Quote:
Originally posted by Vermillion
I do not particularily like Warfalcon's views, I think his extremist libertarian views are absurd and his single-mindedness when it comes to his beliefs severely restricts any opportunity he has for intellectual growth.
Seeing as you decided to preface the rest of post with a personal insult on him can you explain to me how his beliefs are restricting his intellectual growth? A nice specific example would be great.
__________________
Titans forever.
Ska is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 16 Nov 2002, 23:13   #75
Scoot951
Das Scoot
 
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 788
Scoot951 is an unknown quantity at this point
Quote:
Originally posted by eple


btw: I haven't got a really deep knowledge of the American constitution, I know only of a few examples like this. But it is more a manner of prinipals, to base laws on what's right, not what's written in anicent times.
The Constitution can be amended, and has been (26 times if I remember my history right? cba to check on it right now) For all sorts of things such as lowering the voting age to 18, giving the vote to minorities (women, blacks), making alcohol illegal (which was amended back a few years later ), etc.

If there are people here who believe that the Constitution is written in stone, they obviously need to go back and re-read it. As far as the gun arguments go, should America as a whole decide we shouldn't own guns, that amendment will be amended to reflect that. It hasn't, because we haven't. If you feel strongly against guns, ban them in your countries, but recognize that we're on the other side of an ocean here, and we disagree with you
__________________
n00b since Jan 11th, 2001

I don't really know what I'm doing here
Scoot951 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 16 Nov 2002, 23:14   #76
eple
Voodoo chile
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: a little island in Nor-ay
Posts: 227
eple is an unknown quantity at this point
Quote:
Originally posted by Ska

2. If you do not have indepth knowledge of something how can you sit and blast on it?
I am not blasting anything my friend, I am simply saying that WF's views on the American constitution is way too inflexible and fanatical

sheesh....

Sure, yout constitution is a fine piece of work, but it's not to be followed blindly.
__________________
"Nästa melodi som bob hund skall spela nu skrevs långt... långt, långt innan polisen började KASTA... avundsjuka blickar på ungdomarna som speglade sig i skyltfönstren som låg på marken!... Tolka det hur fan ni vill!... Vissa revolutioner sker i badrummet, andra på andra stanser; det är bara upp till er! Det är inte alltid det räcker med att slå hårdare ifrån sig än man behöver! Ibland räcker det med att säga SKÖT DU MITT, SÅ SKÖTER JAG DITT! SKÖT DU MITT, SÅ SKÖTER JAG DITT!!!"
eple is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 16 Nov 2002, 23:15   #77
Ska
Waging a war on errorism
 
Ska's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Come Clarity
Posts: 249
Ska has a reputation beyond reputeSka has a reputation beyond reputeSka has a reputation beyond reputeSka has a reputation beyond reputeSka has a reputation beyond reputeSka has a reputation beyond reputeSka has a reputation beyond reputeSka has a reputation beyond reputeSka has a reputation beyond reputeSka has a reputation beyond reputeSka has a reputation beyond repute
Quote:
Originally posted by eple


but it's not to be followed blindly.
Nothing should be followed blindly
__________________
Titans forever.
Ska is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 16 Nov 2002, 23:16   #78
eple
Voodoo chile
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: a little island in Nor-ay
Posts: 227
eple is an unknown quantity at this point
Quote:
Originally posted by Scoot951


The Constitution can be amended, and has been (26 times if I remember my history right? cba to check on it right now) For all sorts of things such as lowering the voting age to 18, giving the vote to minorities (women, blacks), making alcohol illegal (which was amended back a few years later ), etc.

If there are people here who believe that the Constitution is written in stone, they obviously need to go back and re-read it. As far as the gun arguments go, should America as a whole decide we shouldn't own guns, that amendment will be amended to reflect that. It hasn't, because we haven't. If you feel strongly against guns, ban them in your countries, but recognize that we're on the other side of an ocean here, and we disagree with you

Last time:

I am referring to WF's views on the constitution, not the official one. mmmkay?
__________________
"Nästa melodi som bob hund skall spela nu skrevs långt... långt, långt innan polisen började KASTA... avundsjuka blickar på ungdomarna som speglade sig i skyltfönstren som låg på marken!... Tolka det hur fan ni vill!... Vissa revolutioner sker i badrummet, andra på andra stanser; det är bara upp till er! Det är inte alltid det räcker med att slå hårdare ifrån sig än man behöver! Ibland räcker det med att säga SKÖT DU MITT, SÅ SKÖTER JAG DITT! SKÖT DU MITT, SÅ SKÖTER JAG DITT!!!"
eple is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 16 Nov 2002, 23:18   #79
eple
Voodoo chile
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: a little island in Nor-ay
Posts: 227
eple is an unknown quantity at this point
Quote:
Originally posted by Ska


Nothing should be followed blindly
exactly. Therefore I dislike WF's opinions on certain points because they tend to do just that: Following the constitution of the United states too closely.
__________________
"Nästa melodi som bob hund skall spela nu skrevs långt... långt, långt innan polisen började KASTA... avundsjuka blickar på ungdomarna som speglade sig i skyltfönstren som låg på marken!... Tolka det hur fan ni vill!... Vissa revolutioner sker i badrummet, andra på andra stanser; det är bara upp till er! Det är inte alltid det räcker med att slå hårdare ifrån sig än man behöver! Ibland räcker det med att säga SKÖT DU MITT, SÅ SKÖTER JAG DITT! SKÖT DU MITT, SÅ SKÖTER JAG DITT!!!"
eple is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 16 Nov 2002, 23:21   #80
Ska
Waging a war on errorism
 
Ska's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Come Clarity
Posts: 249
Ska has a reputation beyond reputeSka has a reputation beyond reputeSka has a reputation beyond reputeSka has a reputation beyond reputeSka has a reputation beyond reputeSka has a reputation beyond reputeSka has a reputation beyond reputeSka has a reputation beyond reputeSka has a reputation beyond reputeSka has a reputation beyond reputeSka has a reputation beyond repute
Quote:
Originally posted by eple


exactly. Therefore I dislike WF's opinions on certain points because they tend to do just that: Following the constitution of the United states too closely.
ummm Im still looking for a specific example?
__________________
Titans forever.
Ska is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 16 Nov 2002, 23:21   #81
Nodrog
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 8,476
Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Quote:
Originally posted by eple


btw: I haven't got a really deep knowledge of the American constitution,
Ok. Youve never read the American Constitution, and yet you feel that you are qualified to make comments on whether or not it should be followed. Fair enough.

Quote:
Originally posted by eple


Sure, yout constitution is a fine piece of work, but it's not to be followed blindly.
What bits shouldnt be followed blindly?
Nodrog is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 16 Nov 2002, 23:22   #82
Chrism
Governor General
 
Chrism's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: People's Republic of South Yorkshire
Posts: 739
Chrism is a jewel in the roughChrism is a jewel in the roughChrism is a jewel in the roughChrism is a jewel in the rough
The whole point of a constitution is that it's the lex superior of a country, and therefore should be followed.
__________________
Va Va Voom
Chrism is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 16 Nov 2002, 23:35   #83
Nodrog
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 8,476
Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Right, I'm going to try and explain this.

The purpose of the American Constitution is to restrict the power of the Federal Government. What the Constitution mainly contains (apart from details concerning the structure of the government), is a list of all the things which the State _cannot_ do. The writers of the Constitution felt (quite correctly) that the system of democracy was imperfect, and widely open to abuse. This abuse can potentially take many forms - from corrupt officials misusing their power to push through damaging bills, to large sections of the population using their voice to pass laws that would damage a minority (example - how many people 50 years ago do you think would have liked to make homosexuality illegal?). The Constitution acts as a safety measure - it ensures that people cannot persecute any minorites in the country - which without a Constitution they would fully be able to do, due to the "power of democracy".

Because of this, it is vital that the Constitution is followed to the exact letter. Once you give the government the power to ignore parts of the Constitution, there is no longer any "higher power" in the country than the voice of the majority. It only takes a few minutes of thought to realise the disastarous effects that this could potentially have on the country - the whims of the masses change regularly, and should not have the power to be made into law.

The Constitution must always be obeyed. Always. Once you understand the real reason why it exists, this point becomes obvious. Now, the writers of the Constitution were not omniscienty; you are correct - times have changed since it was written. Whats more, they were well aware of this, and that is why the process of amendment was included in the original document. Rather than ignoring the Constitution and doing whatever they want to, the government has to officially amend the Constitution. This makes it a lot harder for the government to actually seriously abuse their power to any real degree.

The fact that you do not like certain parts of the Constitution does not devalue the document as a whole. Read it for yourself. I think that you have picked up on the war cry a lot of people use that says "Americans are stupid! They place all their faith in an outdated document!". The reason people use this argument is that they are completely unable to point out any specific parts of the Constitution that they disagree with (although the "gun part" is often used). Rather than ratiionally engage in a logical debate about the merits of various parts of the Constitution, these people decide to vaguely shout about why the Constuttion "shouldnt be obeyed", while providing no evidence to back up their arguments. This is because they dont have any, and that they know that vague arguments with no substance are more likely to persuade others to believe them than rational debate. Most people seem to prefer hearing irrational aruguments than taking the trouble to think for themselves.

Dont be one of them: read it for yourself and then decide.
Nodrog is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 16 Nov 2002, 23:36   #84
Jammers
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: England
Posts: 752
Jammers has a little shameless behaviour in the past
Quote:
Originally posted by acropolis
By saying that it isn't religious because there is no 'god' in it you just cut out 1/2 of the world's religions. congrats.

and by saying that religious documents are always used to oppress you managed to offend the rest.

As to whether it is a political statement, the koran describes how governments should be put together, as does the old testament. you have to pay attention to get political philosophy from the new testament, but it is there.

More than anything else, the prophets wrote down the word of god 200 years ago (they did indeed believe god was telling them what to write), and the high priests today debate endlessly about what was truly meant in there. 'religious'

And anyway nobody is against fundamentalism as long as it not used to damage human rights etc.

Definition of Religion.
The only one of those that applys to the Consitution is 4, and even then only by extremists. Unless of course, George Washington et al were Spiritual Leaders?

As for oppression, they usually are. See Middle Ages Europe, present day Middle East, Taleban etc.

The Bible and Koran are predominantly Religous texts. The political parts are in the minority.

If God dictated the Constitution, why didn't He make His will a bit less subtle\non-existant? Why did He give people the freedom to ignore His will? Wouldn't He rather just force people to accept His will, instead of following other (presumably false) gods?
__________________
<Bobzy> It's Jammers rockstargame kid
<Bobzy> Jammers is > the rest of GD/PA at it though.
Jammers is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 16 Nov 2002, 23:38   #85
Azaghal
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Posts: 49
Azaghal is an unknown quantity at this point
IMO WarFalcon is a good counterweigth against the majority of europeans on this board. I respect his oppinions, even while I generally don't agree with them.

---
Quote:
Originally posted by Mirai


Brady bill of 1996 banned all privately owned full autos.

Why you have a problem with semis is beyond comprehension.

Tell the hermit that has to defend himself against grizzly bears out in the wilderness that he no longer has a right to own a shotgun.

Tell the hikers that they can't carry pistols on camping trips to protect themselves from bears and wolves.

Tell the isolationists that they no longer deserve the right to save their families.

Face it boy, America is a whole lot different from urban london. You even been attacked by a brown bear looking for food in your camp? I have. I've seen people go against them with shovels and get their arms broken in 6 places and a cracked skull. Some things you just don't see in a city happen out here.
That doesn't justify for America's urban areas...

And about that self-defence arguement that went through the thread too: in here (holland) if someome breaks-in your house they hardly have guns, at best knives. Why? Because an average semi-criminal here doesn't have a gun, they are expensive (black market is always expensive) and hard to get.

Face it, a lot of americans simply don't want to lose their gun = lose power.

It is true though that if America would ban private unregistered weapon owning it would create problems with disarment, but that doesn't mean the current weapon policy is a good one...
Azaghal is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 16 Nov 2002, 23:42   #86
Ska
Waging a war on errorism
 
Ska's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Come Clarity
Posts: 249
Ska has a reputation beyond reputeSka has a reputation beyond reputeSka has a reputation beyond reputeSka has a reputation beyond reputeSka has a reputation beyond reputeSka has a reputation beyond reputeSka has a reputation beyond reputeSka has a reputation beyond reputeSka has a reputation beyond reputeSka has a reputation beyond reputeSka has a reputation beyond repute
Quote:
Originally posted by Azaghal

Face it, a lot of americans simply don't want to lose their gun = lose power.
Except that most Americans don't own guns.
__________________
Titans forever.
Ska is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 16 Nov 2002, 23:43   #87
Vermillion
Historian
 
Vermillion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Posts: 960
Vermillion is a name known to allVermillion is a name known to allVermillion is a name known to allVermillion is a name known to allVermillion is a name known to allVermillion is a name known to all
Quote:
Originally posted by Ska

Seeing as you decided to preface the rest of post with a personal insult on him can you explain to me how his beliefs are restricting his intellectual growth? A nice specific example would be great.
Read more carefully.

Firstly, it was not an insult of him it was a comment on his views. Secondly, I did not say his views stunted the chance of intellectual growth, I said his single-mindedness about his views stunted his chances of intellectual growth.

I would say the same about anyone as single-minded about anything.
__________________
"This is Rumour control, here are the facts..."

"Et nunc, reges, intelligite, er udimini, qui judicati terram"
Vermillion is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 17 Nov 2002, 00:53   #88
Nixjim
Commander
 
Nixjim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: USA
Posts: 404
Nixjim is an unknown quantity at this point
Quote:
Originally posted by Azaghal
IMO WarFalcon is a good counterweigth against the majority of europeans on this board. I respect his oppinions, even while I generally don't agree with them.

---


That doesn't justify for America's urban areas...
Trouble is you cannot pass a law for urban regions that does not affect rural areas. Any gun ban would disarm everyone, and since most of the people who really have a use for guns are in rural areas, they are deprived because of a law designed for urban areas. I know my views are biased due to my location in a crime free rural area, shoot, I leave the keys in my truck and the doors are never locked here, so my guns are used for hunting and predator control.

Quote:
And about that self-defence arguement that went through the thread too: in here (holland) if someome breaks-in your house they hardly have guns, at best knives. Why? Because an average semi-criminal here doesn't have a gun, they are expensive (black market is always expensive) and hard to get.




Face it, a lot of americans simply don't want to lose their gun = lose power.

It is true though that if America would ban private unregistered weapon owning it would create problems with disarment, but that doesn't mean the current weapon policy is a good one...
Dispite Europes gun bans there is still plenty of gun crimes committed there. Banning guns has not solved anything in Europe
I do not have a gun to feel powerful, no one experienced with firearms does. They are simply a tool used to do a job. Handguns are already registered, requiring registration for long guns would do nothing to reduce crime, it would simply make it easier for the government to find them when they decide to ban them in the future. I hope I'm dead before that happens, because I will not turn them in.
Nixjim is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 17 Nov 2002, 23:12   #89
eple
Voodoo chile
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: a little island in Nor-ay
Posts: 227
eple is an unknown quantity at this point
hmmm

got on thin ice, got my arse kicked by smarter guys, mental note: next time bluff better
__________________
"Nästa melodi som bob hund skall spela nu skrevs långt... långt, långt innan polisen började KASTA... avundsjuka blickar på ungdomarna som speglade sig i skyltfönstren som låg på marken!... Tolka det hur fan ni vill!... Vissa revolutioner sker i badrummet, andra på andra stanser; det är bara upp till er! Det är inte alltid det räcker med att slå hårdare ifrån sig än man behöver! Ibland räcker det med att säga SKÖT DU MITT, SÅ SKÖTER JAG DITT! SKÖT DU MITT, SÅ SKÖTER JAG DITT!!!"
eple is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 15:36.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2002 - 2018