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Unread 12 Nov 2002, 23:56   #1
branko
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I wonder who was dumbster that organise att to ketchup??

Personaly I didnt send no attack or def to any side but looking from distance when I recive news that top 1 is under attack I was take a look at news scans after eta 4 and see that ketchup is well covered I was thinking that fury will recall BUT thay decide to stay 2 or 3 ticks.I wonder who is dumbster who give order to stay 2 ticks????
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Unread 13 Nov 2002, 00:18   #2
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Storebo I believe was the attack organiser. Who gave the order to stay I have no idea.

Read the other threads on the subject for all available AD gossip
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Unread 13 Nov 2002, 00:32   #3
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i dont think the dumbest guy is the attack organizer here. i think the dumbest guy is the guy who let the dumb fk to be a BC and organize the attack.
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Unread 13 Nov 2002, 00:36   #4
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Quote:
Originally posted by Allfather
hell,i wouldnt mind loosing 500 soldiers in real life to kill one spessific target if it got me closer to my goal, and i sure as hell wouldnt mind some digits in a db.
heh... I missed the action but can see that he's still there
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Unread 13 Nov 2002, 00:37   #5
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I would of thought the only person capable of authing such an attack would of been Sid. Seems that round and a half out of PA didnt do him much good.
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Unread 13 Nov 2002, 00:39   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by Game
I would of thought the only person capable of authing such an attack would of been Sid. Seems that round and a half out of PA didnt do him much good.
Occassionally individuals do things without Executive consent
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Unread 13 Nov 2002, 00:41   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hicks
Occassionally individuals do things without Executive consent
Is this the new line now? He was acting on his own initiative?

Is it just me or can you feel someone about to be hung out to dry
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Unread 13 Nov 2002, 00:43   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hicks
Occassionally individuals do things without Executive consent
ie, the normal fury peon cant think of his own?
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Unread 13 Nov 2002, 00:43   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hicks
Occassionally individuals do things without Executive consent
But still execs kick those who recall from suicide attacks without permission?

I actually had to laugh at how the attackers thought they were going to win the battle.. ffs people, if you wanna do lemming runs, do 'em with style. Ask Leto next time!
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Unread 13 Nov 2002, 00:49   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hicks
Occassionally individuals do things without Executive consent
Ahhhh right then, so no-one in the Exec Team realised that Fury had how many millions of points worth of ships going to the #1 planet?

Glad to see the gap between Execs and 'members' is still as strong as ever it seems.
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Unread 13 Nov 2002, 01:05   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by unbanskaut
i dont think the dumbest guy is the attack organizer here. i think the dumbest guy is the guy who let the dumb fk to be a BC and organize the attack.
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Unread 13 Nov 2002, 01:13   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by Game
I would of thought the only person capable of authing such an attack would of been Sid. Seems that round and a half out of PA didnt do him much good.
Sid was probably order attack but I dont think he give order of staying.
hmm I personaly think sid is not that stupid (perheps he is one of great startegyst,but also great manipulator) that dont see what will be resault of fight.This is in my point n00b mistake.Even without calcing it was clear that top 1 has good cover.
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Unread 13 Nov 2002, 01:18   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by Gayle28uk

Is this the new line now? He was acting on his own initiative?

Is it just me or can you feel someone about to be hung out to dry
It wasn't him either brain box. How about you go comment on something you have a clue about.

Game from what I understand and my knowledge is far from perfect, it seems that a member decided to hit la ketchup with their attack group, two MOs agreed it would be a good idea and brought in main stream Fury to help by the time it launched there was no Executive online, I came on at ETA 5 and recommended it be recall but started a calc, it was clear we’d lose the first tick but it was gambled that the LDK defense would mainly be over burned fighters against our mainly heavy fleet (A fatal error) and that much of the LDK defense would be faked. Mistakes are made I just hope those responsible apologize for screwing up.
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Unread 13 Nov 2002, 01:19   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by branko


Sid was probably order attack but I dont think he give order of staying.
hmm I personaly think sid is not that stupid (perheps he is one of great startegyst,but also great manipulator) that dont see what will be resault of fight.This is in my point n00b mistake.Even without calcing it was clear that top 1 has good cover.
The calcing was probably the part that failed. It is very hard to make a descision based on a bad calc.

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Unread 13 Nov 2002, 01:24   #15
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Once the attack was actually launched, the only available choices were bad ones - recall and face the possibility that some attackers don't make it on in time, or land and face the possibility of getting hammered.

Once the fleets were actually underway, there was very little that could be done about it.

As an aside, I remember Deus trying a similar attack in r6 on the #1 planet, 4:5:13 (Sliekas). The attack failed rather badly, with similar results. Since then I have never really seen why anyone would even attempt such an attack - if you have to send so many ships to give an attack a chance of succeeding, it's because you don't have enough of advantage over the enemy to begin with, and thus shouldn't even be attempting it. The only time I can ever recall such an attack succeeding was the attack on Storebo in r6, and that was only a success because his fleet was caught, which wouldn't even have happened in this case.
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Unread 13 Nov 2002, 01:25   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by Game


Ahhhh right then, so no-one in the Exec Team realised that Fury had how many millions of points worth of ships going to the #1 planet?

Glad to see the gap between Execs and 'members' is still as strong as ever it seems.
It sure isnt anything like Wrath r5.
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Unread 13 Nov 2002, 01:28   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hicks
It wasn't him either brain box.
Just reread everything and I know where I got it from now but I missed a line
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Unread 13 Nov 2002, 01:52   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hicks
it was gambled that the LDK defense would mainly be over burned fighters against our mainly heavy fleet (A fatal error) and that much of the LDK defense would be faked.
We made that mistake at SE :-/

For all the heavy ships you send, there are riduculous amounts of Xand about this round. They fire first, and it hurts.
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Unread 13 Nov 2002, 02:48   #19
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Nice explanation Hicks... and a good one, its something any alliance could have done.

I wonder if there are any regrets taking those ex-Adelante members in who seems to be reponsible for much death and destruction.. only unfortunatly for them.. and now fury.. their own.
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Unread 13 Nov 2002, 03:42   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by xtothez


We made that mistake at SE :-/
Actually the BattleCalc on the SE-battle was done based on milscans of every defender, and while it was missing 100k ships (from the 'worst case' scenario - gamble on defence being partly fake) losses only shifted by a million or so. Decision to land was done due to one of the attackers being offline. Balance was shifted more due to attackers that had to pull due to RL reasons.
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Unread 13 Nov 2002, 04:03   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hicks
Occassionally individuals do things without Executive consent
Ya it happened last round too didn't it?
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Unread 13 Nov 2002, 04:16   #22
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Are we going to see more ownage tonight??????
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Unread 13 Nov 2002, 04:32   #23
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What I dont understand is how today I hear Kile saying pld I lost all my ships at La Ket then in the next breath says he sent 500 vultures only.

Appears a few other people did the same and a lot from kiles attack group did the same. Hicks says no exec was online.... last round kile took pains to tell me he was an exec on duty.

So just to clear it up is kile an exec?

Also why did so many "large" fury planets send fake fleets... some even sending/recalling when it was obvious such a large launch that needed committed attackers. Perhaps if they sent real fleets the death of ldk planets would have been greater and the small/medium fury planets that sent wouldnt have been slaughtered so badly.
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Unread 13 Nov 2002, 04:33   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by G.K Zhukov


ie, the normal fury peon cant think of his own?
On the contrary, I think Hicks' quote implies that they CAN think on their own, but only choose to do so occassionally.
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Unread 13 Nov 2002, 04:53   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by Obfuscator
On the contrary, I think Hicks' quote implies that they CAN think on their own, but only choose to do so occassionally.
and when they do, the result tends to be total disaster?
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Unread 13 Nov 2002, 04:55   #26
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Quote:
Originally posted by Fred of Bedrock
What I dont understand is how today I hear Kile saying pld I lost all my ships at La Ket then in the next breath says he sent 500 vultures only.

Appears a few other people did the same and a lot from kiles attack group did the same. Hicks says no exec was online.... last round kile took pains to tell me he was an exec on duty.

So just to clear it up is kile an exec?

Also why did so many "large" fury planets send fake fleets... some even sending/recalling when it was obvious such a large launch that needed committed attackers. Perhaps if they sent real fleets the death of ldk planets would have been greater and the small/medium fury planets that sent wouldnt have been slaughtered so badly.
R7 Kileman was a Wrath Military Officer
R8 Kileman is a Fury Military Officer

Long time no see by the way
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Unread 13 Nov 2002, 04:59   #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by ComradeRob
if you have to send so many ships to give an attack a chance of succeeding, it's because you don't have enough of advantage over the enemy to begin with, and thus shouldn't even be attempting it.
True.

I wonder what the hell are they thinking.
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Unread 13 Nov 2002, 05:06   #28
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hicks
R7 Kileman was a Wrath Military Officer
R8 Kileman is a Fury Military Officer

Long time no see by the way
Thanks m8.... btw next time you are in Aus come to my place and the first beer is free .... and probably the second and third and .......


(The offer is to Hicks and not kile )
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Unread 13 Nov 2002, 05:40   #29
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Quote:
Originally posted by G.K Zhukov


and when they do, the result tends to be total disaster?
hehe....I couldn't rightly say much about that, but it seems to be so, yes.
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Unread 13 Nov 2002, 08:13   #30
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Quote:
Originally posted by Game
I would of thought the only person capable of authing such an attack would of been Sid. Seems that round and a half out of PA didnt do him much good.
Werent this Sids words:

"The easiest attack to defend is an attack on one planet."

hehe
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Unread 13 Nov 2002, 09:03   #31
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Quote:
Originally posted by Fred of Bedrock
Also why did so many "large" fury planets send fake fleets... some even sending/recalling when it was obvious such a large launch that needed committed attackers. Perhaps if they sent real fleets the death of ldk planets would have been greater and the small/medium fury planets that sent wouldnt have been slaughtered so badly.
I'd venture to guess there's at least two possible senarios:

1) people are greedy.
2) the average player in Planetarion (disregarding alliance status) has very little to no experience in full-scale commited launches.

The latter would be due to slightly different combat launch methods compared to non-random rounds*, as much as anything else.

*Which is through your average PA player having began in Rounds 3 or 4, learning to play with private galaxies and powerblock warfare.
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Unread 13 Nov 2002, 10:02   #32
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Quote:
Originally posted by Fred of Bedrock
What I dont understand is how today I hear Kile saying pld I lost all my ships at La Ket then in the next breath says he sent 500 vultures only.

Appears a few other people did the same and a lot from kiles attack group did the same. Hicks says no exec was online.... last round kile took pains to tell me he was an exec on duty.

So just to clear it up is kile an exec?

Also why did so many "large" fury planets send fake fleets... some even sending/recalling when it was obvious such a large launch that needed committed attackers. Perhaps if they sent real fleets the death of ldk planets would have been greater and the small/medium fury planets that sent wouldnt have been slaughtered so badly.
No, last round your words were "who is the highest ranking fury online" I responded me, as all the execs/other officers were offline. That was about the time you told me not to let gread ruin my round

As for my own fleet. I had incomings 2-3 ticks before launching, so needed to keep my own fleet home to defend myself, and defend in gal. Thus I sent a fake attack fleet in the hope that the incoming would look overwhelming and defenders would recall in the last few ticks. I was also part of the first wave at 2.55, and my fleet from that didnt return until 14:00 in which I launched at another top LDK planet. That and I had an exam at 8.30am local time, and landing was at 5am-7am so I needed some sleep. But you really need to know all these personal details dont you

And im honoured you think I am an exec, but I am still just your favourite plain old Military officer

I was also not responsible for the attack, I just helped spam for attackers, and was against some of the 'ideas' that were used in the attack........
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Unread 13 Nov 2002, 11:01   #33
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Quote:
Originally posted by Glatze


Werent this Sids words:

"The easiest attack to defend is an attack on one planet."

hehe
Attack wasn't Sid's idea. And no, I don't know whose idea it was.
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Unread 13 Nov 2002, 11:05   #34
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kileman

I was also not responsible for the attack, I just helped spam for attackers, and was against some of the 'ideas' that were used in the attack........
The "fake" attack eta 2 and 1 tick before main wave was stupid and was a large part of screwing up the whole attack...
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Unread 13 Nov 2002, 11:11   #35
Kileman
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Quote:
Originally posted by Storebo


The "fake" attack eta 2 and 1 tick before main wave was stupid and was a large part of screwing up the whole attack...
To put it bluntly (and I hope I dont offend anyone). They were some of the most 'questionable' tactics I had seen in my life.
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Unread 13 Nov 2002, 11:18   #36
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Yeah, I've been scratching my head trying to figure out what that meant too... !
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Unread 13 Nov 2002, 11:21   #37
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Originally posted by Storebo


The "fake" attack eta 2 and 1 tick before main wave was stupid and was a large part of screwing up the whole attack...
Fang are "smrt"
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Unread 13 Nov 2002, 12:27   #38
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well, the idea i guess is that LDK tend to overkill defence on La Ketchup, so i'm guessing they went short ETA's hoping that the defence there would be Overburn and wouldn't be able to defend the main attack, taking out a large portion of the available defence.

As it happened we were expressively told not to overburn our defence and so the early stuff which was eta 6 by then, was covered easily by Fighters. The the late ETA stuff not only had the defence from the eta 6 and 7 defences, but also had 4 full ticks to gather enough defence, which turned out to be enough.

imho, the attack had it's merits but you've got to realise that we knew somethng big was coming by the fact we didn't have our regular amount of incoming, and therefore we had a lot of spare defence fleet.
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Unread 13 Nov 2002, 12:58   #39
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cicada
imho, the attack had it's merits but you've got to realise that we knew somethng big was coming by the fact we didn't have our regular amount of incoming, and therefore we had a lot of spare defence fleet.
Quote:
Originally posted by Cicada
imho, the attack had it's merits but you've got to realise that we knew somethng big was coming by the fact we didn't have our regular amount of incoming, and therefore we had a lot of spare defence fleet.
Haha, even I who had no personal involvement in the battle at La Ketchup got told launchtimes of the main waves the fake first (allthough I did not know it would be afake) and the later main wave. Clearly is it difficult to keep a big attack secret but this time even the target was already out in the open before midnight the evening before he attack. Don't think you guys already saw less incomings around that time but i'm sure you already knew what was coming (including target and exact launchtime)

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Unread 13 Nov 2002, 13:08   #40
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Security was indeed a problem with that attack. Even I had to schematics passed on to my lap 5 minutes before the fake attack was even launched. "So and so is gonna do this and then this and then this is gonna happen, I trust you won't tell anyone".

Well ofc I didn't, as my friends know they can tell me anything and if a secret is what they want, a secret is what they get. However, come on now...I'm not even involved in this war and I knew the LT's too. There was indeed pre-warning to some extent on the defending side I presume.

All in all....hmm...I don't think the organizer of this attack should be scolded too hard. Wasn't *that* bad...

And as far as the recall order being given a tick later than it should have been, let's be realistic. That many attackers/defenders and so many cloaked fleets. Unreasonable to even think a semi-accurate battlecalc could be constructed.

So many fake fleets are often used, you really never know what's gonna happen. When NoS destroyed a spy we caught, a very gigantic one even, heh...he didn't think the 10 defense fleets we sent were fakes. Sh*t happens. Better luck next time.

Why am I defending Fury/Fang.....sheesh....I really need to feed my inner child it seems....

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Unread 13 Nov 2002, 13:08   #41
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Eeerm so will we hear nicks of BC's that organised this attack ? Or u feel ashamed ?
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Unread 13 Nov 2002, 13:12   #42
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Quote:
Originally posted by lrytas
Eeerm so will we hear nicks of BC's that organised this attack ? Or u feel ashamed ?

Everything suggested so far seems to suggest Storebo is the culprit. Maybe he's just their scapegoat. Maybe there was a second gunman in the Ketchup Assasination attempt.

Storebo couldn't have done this alone. Kileman already admitted to fleet spamm0ring(even though he disapproved of the attack). Who we're the helpers? The people have a right to know!

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Unread 13 Nov 2002, 13:36   #43
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Quote:
Originally posted by KoRnNut

Everything suggested so far seems to suggest Storebo is the culprit. Maybe he's just their scapegoat. Maybe there was a second gunman in the Ketchup Assasination attempt.
I think someone said it was not a Fury member who organised the attack. That would leave just FanG or RaH commanders I'd guess.

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Unread 13 Nov 2002, 14:14   #44
Kileman
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Rah had no part in it.

And trying to blame someone is a waste of time. The organisation was a combined allied effort, which was probably why it was such a fk up. No one took total control of accountability over the attack.

The only attack I was responsible for was the impromptu 2.55 fake wave.
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Unread 13 Nov 2002, 15:07   #45
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Quote:
Originally posted by lrytas
Eeerm so will we hear nicks of BC's that organised this attack ? Or u feel ashamed ?
Focht maybe? (judging from past mistakes...)
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Unread 13 Nov 2002, 16:24   #46
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Quote:
Originally posted by ComradeRob

As an aside, I remember Deus trying a similar attack in r6 on the #1 planet, 4:5:13 (Sliekas). The attack failed rather badly, with similar results.
That attack wasnt a total failure, as if it was one of the earlier attacks on him, it was the one that allowed us (meaning all involved sending ships, not just 1 alliance) to catch Storebos fleet, and I think a couple others from that gal, returning from defence. If your referring to one of the later attacks, i retract that

As for this "attack", really refuse to believe Sid ordered it, or had anything to do with it other than post launch instructions. He has more sense than to waste so many resources on 1 planet. Doesnt take someone playing to realize that.
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Unread 13 Nov 2002, 16:38   #47
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ok so 230 million fleet score was lost but noone organised an attack or is responsible

i know when i launch my ships at a planet I am responsible

but when 100+ people launch fleets noone is responsible...

erm..


ps. this is just about your egos; why does noone stand up like a man to admit this was a failure, everyone makes mistakes, so what is the f* problem? i just don't get it? is image and ego so important to people in this lame game?
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Unread 13 Nov 2002, 16:39   #48
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Quote:
Originally posted by Biggdogg


As for this "attack", really refuse to believe Sid ordered it, or had anything to do with it other than post launch instructions. He has more sense than to waste so many resources on 1 planet. Doesnt take someone playing to realize that.
I'd take a guess that Sid isn't the happiest person on earth about this, heh
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Unread 13 Nov 2002, 16:44   #49
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i havent heard lil ol' siddie on this matter would like to know what he thinks anyway Fury ****ed up end of story, they'll be back, they always come back kiddies, look out R6....i say dont hesitate kill um now !!! else you will be too late : ) anyway good luck and for god sake leave me out of this
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Unread 13 Nov 2002, 16:52   #50
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Quote:
Originally posted by lrytas
Eeerm so will we hear nicks of BC's that organised this attack ? Or u feel ashamed ?
Quote:
Originally posted by KoRnNut

Everything suggested so far seems to suggest Storebo is the culprit. Maybe he's just their scapegoat. Maybe there was a second gunman in the Ketchup Assasination attempt.

Storebo couldn't have done this alone. Kileman already admitted to fleet spamm0ring(even though he disapproved of the attack). Who we're the helpers? The people have a right to know!
uhm... tell me now..what is suggesting that I was the one organising this? I made a thread and said some stuff in a channel? I was even 1 hour to late for the launch... I'm just a peon in Fury... no more no less.. No MO/BC status at all... no executive status etc... heh.. just member =)
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