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Unread 15 May 2009, 06:46   #1
Zaejii
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Reverse JGP

Normally you can only see which fleets have been sent out from a planet by using a News scan (which is delayed by 3 ticks). This would introduce a way to work around that when deciding to land attacks or deciding to launch if someone does not have certain ships available to them. It could allow target, eta, and amount of ships in the fleet to be shown or not.

This could be accomplished via Covert Operations or by introducing a new scan.
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Unread 15 May 2009, 07:05   #2
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Re: Reverse JGP

This sounds interesting. I would add them to scans, to preserve the distinction between cov ops as an offensive tool and scans as an intelligence tool.
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Unread 15 May 2009, 07:15   #3
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Re: Reverse JGP

What would be the point in a normal news scan then ? Au might render u pointless but that makes sense given the introduction of cloaked ships so long ago. If you're going to have an improved newsscan you might aswell introduce advanced planet scans which reveal exact # of ships in production and prod exit tick or advanced development scans which reveal population info and cons/res info.

Let's not go overboard on making all intel available to others, some mystery is needed to maintain the chance/bravery/bluff/foolishness factor and all other assorted pa goodness.
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Unread 15 May 2009, 09:19   #4
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Re: Reverse JGP

normal news scans show finished research, constructions, combats, salvage, lost ships, stolen ships, donations, covert operations (successful and failed), incoming fleets, and outgoing fleets. (i might have missed some)

this would show fleets that are directed away from the planet with no delay.
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Unread 15 May 2009, 13:59   #5
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Re: Reverse JGP

So is this a scan that shows fleet activity from the target planet without any delay? usually this requires a news scan to see where the fleet is going, then a jgp of that target to see if the fleet is still heading there and what was sent.
Just trying to understand what you mean. Sorry for being a bit slow.
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Unread 15 May 2009, 14:17   #6
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Re: Reverse JGP

tbh it will destory loads of fun
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Unread 15 May 2009, 17:48   #7
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Re: Reverse JGP

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Originally Posted by Munkee View Post
tbh it will destory loads of fun
and how might that be?
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Unread 15 May 2009, 18:41   #8
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Re: Reverse JGP

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Originally Posted by Zaejii View Post
and how might that be?
it removes uncertainty and that makes it boring
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Unread 15 May 2009, 19:13   #9
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Re: Reverse JGP

i agree it would be a terrible idea
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Unread 15 May 2009, 19:41   #10
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Re: Reverse JGP

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Originally Posted by Appocomaster View Post
it removes uncertainty and that makes it boring
Honestly, uncertainty as a consequence of intel that is impossible to gather by game design is pretty dumb, as it pretty much boils down to a random factor.

Uncertainty as a consequence of intel being actively denied by the other side, is, usually, a good thing as it boils down to skill/strategy being deplyed.

So yeah, I'm pretty much pro this.
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Unread 15 May 2009, 19:52   #11
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Re: Reverse JGP

From an attacker's point of view - uncertainty like this is fun in xp rounds, where you can spend quite some time looking at scans and calculating rough chances of a successful attack or not - then risk landing. Loads and loads of fun tbh, pity xp rounds overall are shit. In value rounds... you get no extra fun from it cos you'll almost certainly recall if there's any doubt (but at least it does make people spend some time looking at scans to work out whats going on - makes it semi-interesting, though tedious at times).

That said, from a defender's perspective, it does add some fun (and hope in general). Like people trying to send out their fleets cleverly to be deceptive in news scans and such... substantial rush of adrenaline when you feel like a clever plan has caused a recall or a crash!

Overall a scan like this would be utter shit. I have spoken, DO NOT DO IT APPOCOMASTER!
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Unread 15 May 2009, 20:39   #12
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Re: Reverse JGP

which is why I suggested it as a Covert Operation so that people could be immune to it since it would give intel on people prelaunching, etc. it would only be a big uncertainty remover if you could not prevent it at all imo. even so, most information can be figured out from sandmans and such from xp/tick among other things.
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Unread 16 May 2009, 09:29   #13
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Re: Reverse JGP

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zaejii View Post
which is why I suggested it as a Covert Operation so that people could be immune to it since it would give intel on people prelaunching, etc. it would only be a big uncertainty remover if you could not prevent it at all imo. even so, most information can be figured out from sandmans and such from xp/tick among other things.
how many covoppers are in uni? how "easy" do you think covopping is with the newest security system atm? (guards, centres, pop) its a pointless idea heh.
if anyone researches covops more likely they use it for bank hack imho.
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Unread 16 May 2009, 22:19   #14
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Re: Reverse JGP

yeah, they are likely to use it for bank hacks, and with the implementation of guards and how easy it is to become completely immune to covert ops - they may as well be completely removed. there are many reasons people try covert ops: some people play it to annoy others, some play it as a means to fund scans, some do it strictly for the experience boost, etc.

in some cases, you can jgp anyone in 1:1 and see what people have fleets prelaunched while they are away so their ships do not die at base. would having a tool to reveal this be any different? the amount of information to be given out would be determined by how it is implemented. refer to my original post:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zaejii
It could allow target, eta, and amount of ships in the fleet to be shown or not.
people are always suggesting ways for prelaunch eta to be shown (jgp's etc) because activity should be rewarded. this could be a way to do that, and it could also be a way to effectively award those that do not use it even if exact eta is not given!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Appocomaster
it removes uncertainty and that makes it boring
if you choose to show certain specifics like number of ships in each fleet (similar to military scan), then yes - it would remove uncertainty. if you show 2 outgoing fleets without coordinates or the number of ships in the fleet - who is to say that each consists of 1 ship and the full fleet is still available at base to take part in combat? MORE information than this would be available in the current news scan (coordinates, launch tick, land tick, number of ships sent excluding cloak) with a delay of 3 ticks. i hardly see where it will "destroy loads of fun", depending on how it is implemented.

heck, some say the new production system destroyed loads of fun due to how it was implemented by allowing production hiding, and others even claim that the new planet scans [i]destroyed uncertainty[i] due to how it was also implemented by showing how much is in production in each factory.

TL;DR: the idea is to show fleets heading away from the planet. the amount of extra information shown with that is up to the person that actually does the implementation (if it is even deemed critical enough to do).
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Last edited by Zaejii; 16 May 2009 at 22:27.
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Unread 17 May 2009, 03:28   #15
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Re: Reverse JGP

There is an alliance who proposes reverse JGP in its tools, if that alliance can do it, surely you can find someone to work it out from the currently available scans.
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Unread 17 May 2009, 06:24   #16
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Re: Reverse JGP

Bad idea.

You shouldn't know with 100% certainty if a planet has his fleets home or not. As it's been mentioned, a covop can reveal if a planet has ships home or not...

If an attacker has sent ships out more than 3 ticks ago you'll see it in the news scan, and you can jgp the target. If the planet's launched less than 3 ticks prior to you landing, I dont see why you should have that information.

What you're basically asking for is a "is it safe to land" scan. Far too imba for my liking.
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Unread 17 May 2009, 06:47   #17
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Re: Reverse JGP

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Originally Posted by Kenny View Post
Bad idea.

You shouldn't know with 100% certainty if a planet has his fleets home or not.
Why not?
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Unread 17 May 2009, 08:00   #18
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Re: Reverse JGP

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny View Post
You shouldn't know with 100% certainty if a planet has his fleets home or not. As it's been mentioned, a covop can reveal if a planet has ships home or not...
planets can be immune to sabotage with easy mode security guards, plus people can prelaunch fleets to keep that from happening and recall it when they need the ships home.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny View Post
What you're basically asking for is a "is it safe to land" scan. Far too imba for my liking.
just because someone has 3 fleets out (or set to launch - you should read my last post again apparently) does not mean that it "is safe to land" because there can still be a production ordered and there are no guarantees that there are 0 ships home at base (even with covert ops - see above).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny View Post
If an attacker has sent ships out more than 3 ticks ago you'll see it in the news scan, and you can jgp the target. If the planet's launched less than 3 ticks prior to you landing, I dont see why you should have that information.
why not?
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