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21 Oct 2007, 12:00
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#1
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mz.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,587
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Population: limits, size, free planets
I have a few ideas and issues with/for population, as it's currently implemented.
1) Population sector ceilings
2) Population size
3) Free planet restrictions
Population Sector Ceilings
As it stands, there are 2 limiting factors when you divide your population:
1) The 100% total population ceiling
2) The individual sector ceilings (mining 25%, research 50%, construction 35%, production 60%, security 50%)
The first limit makes perfect sense, after all, you can't put more of your population to work than you actually have. My gripe is with the second limit. Why can I not dedicate my entire population to mining?
I propose removing the sector ceilings in population. This will give players more strategic freedom in deciding what kind of planet they want to have. Valuewhore? 100% mining! Researching scans or close to your HCT limit? 100% research. Scanner or distwhore? 100% construction! Incomings and a large stockpile? 100% production! Getting cov opped? 100% security!
In my opinion, this reinforces one of Planetarion's strongest points, when compared to similar games (pia, spm, etc): the fact that there are several ways to do well. By making these choices more fundamental, people will choose a path and stick with it; by making them more extreme, you encourage people to stick by those paths, and allow them to diverge more.
Along the same lines, governments could give bigger (dis)advantages, to the same effect, but more permanent, ensuring people don't switch whenever it's convenient, only to revert when the situation is resolved (think self-covering incomings).
It's possible to take it even further, by adding negative population. Right now, having 0% population in a sector does not mean that sector is doing nothing, it just means you're not paying it any particular attention. You can still produce ships, do research, mine asteroids, etc. If a player were allowed to decrease his population to below 0%, choices would become even more fundamental. This would however also mean that extreme population assignment differences could exist between individual, similarily scoring planets (say, one with 200% population on mining, the other with -50% on mining), which could result in the inverse of my goal: one single "uber strategy", while all others become either useless or trivial. In my opinion this is taking it too far.
Population Size
Why is this at all displayed? Either remove it completely, or add a line to the Information section at the bottom of the page, saying that population size has no effect on your planet whatsoever.
Free Planet Restrictions
In line with this thread, I propose creating a set of default population settings for free planets. This will make them more playable, while still ensuring they're not nearly as good as paid planets (especially if sector restrictions are removed for paid planets). This will increase the chance they stick around and buy a paid account the next round.
There are two ways to go: you can either assign 20% across the board, or assign custom values to each sector (f.ex. 15% mining, 30% research, 25% construction, 0% production, 30% security). Both options will make free planets more playable.
Opinions?
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The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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21 Oct 2007, 12:36
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#2
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Rebellion Rebelleader
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Apeldoorn / Amsterdam
Posts: 330
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Re: Population: limits, size, free planets
I think overal its a good idea but it gets too powerful.
I think mining and SA advantages should be reduced to half their bonusses now if this idea is to be used.
That means 100% mining will give 50% more income and 10% mining will give 5% more income whereas SA will give 35 alert if set on 100% and 7 Alert if set on 20%
The reason why i want to reduce those effect and not the effect on the other 3 specialties is because they have inherent restrictions. 100% construction will lead to very expencive constructions early on, 100% prod is limited by stock pile and of limited use and 100% research will lead to a few ticks advantage for something you would have finished anyway.
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NiNEONE
we look a lot tougher then we are
<zhil|reportwrit> Rikard - I dont know you
<zhil|reportwrit> so you're insignificant
eXilition - LCH - Destiny - Conspiracy - Night Witches - eXcessum
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21 Oct 2007, 12:54
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#3
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Registered Awesome Person
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 5,676
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Re: Population: limits, size, free planets
How about a cap at 50%? 100% strikes me as a little too powerful.
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Finally free!
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21 Oct 2007, 13:33
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#4
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[Vision]
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 897
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Re: Population: limits, size, free planets
Quote:
Originally Posted by furball
How about a cap at 50%? 100% strikes me as a little too powerful.
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It would be in the current setup. But by making other population settings more powerful, for example by reducing the bonus on mining per percentage of population (i.e. 0,5:1 instead of 1:1, like Rikard suggested) it could balance out. As long as all possible settings are equally interesting to choose from, unlike the current situation where there are basicly fixed settings for everyone because some options are simply better than others in terms of bonus they give (or a nessecary step, like the covop immunity issue). If it is all equal in terms of influence on your planet growth, you'd be balancing out by not being able to get full benefit of everything (like getting maxed out bonus on mining while someone else can research 3 times faster than you can).
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[Vision] in a lost dream, contributing to The 5th Element at present
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21 Oct 2007, 13:43
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#5
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mz.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,587
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Re: Population: limits, size, free planets
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rikard
I think overal its a good idea but it gets too powerful.
I think mining and SA advantages should be reduced to half their bonusses now if this idea is to be used.
That means 100% mining will give 50% more income and 10% mining will give 5% more income whereas SA will give 35 alert if set on 100% and 7 Alert if set on 20%
The reason why i want to reduce those effect and not the effect on the other 3 specialties is because they have inherent restrictions. 100% construction will lead to very expencive constructions early on, 100% prod is limited by stock pile and of limited use and 100% research will lead to a few ticks advantage for something you would have finished anyway.
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Needs a bit of balancing here and there, but in principle, this sounds sensible.
__________________
The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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22 Oct 2007, 01:39
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#6
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,663
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Re: Population: limits, size, free planets
I agree that the limitations are a bit artificials, it should be possible to go over them, when you exceed a certain number of buildings in 1 type (or percentage ?).
Let's say if you have 30% factories, it should give you the possibility to add 15% to Shipwright.
You have 10% sec centers, you could set your security population 5% higher
etc...
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<smith> You're 15 and full of shit.
<Furious_George> no, im 22
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22 Oct 2007, 10:16
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#7
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mz.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,587
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Re: Population: limits, size, free planets
That's a bit pointless though. If I have a lot of SCs, I don't need population on security. If I have a lot of factories, I don't need population on production.
__________________
The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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23 Oct 2007, 01:32
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#8
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,663
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Re: Population: limits, size, free planets
well that means you don't have to build that many SCs to achieve the same level of protection, thus you can build more of other buildings
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<smith> You're 15 and full of shit.
<Furious_George> no, im 22
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15 Dec 2007, 14:40
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#9
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Alive and kicking
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Kingdom of the Netherlands
Posts: 220
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Re: Population: limits, size, free planets
I do like this suggestion.
The mining bonus is too strong. At present it is not used for micro-management. It is a setting that is set before tickstart and never changed.
I suggest it is divided over the three resources, so you can devide your population over metal, crystal and eonium. That means you can also use it to balance your income, or as an Etd you can choose to stimulate the most the resource that you already mine the most.
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15 Dec 2007, 17:56
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#10
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Inactive peon
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,050
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Re: Population: limits, size, free planets
why not make population size actually do anything i.e. make it so that the number of people building a ship reflects how long it takes to build it (obviously you would need a logarithmic algorithm so the advantages of adding new people decreased as you add more people)
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15 Dec 2007, 21:27
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#11
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Banned
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: saved your ass
Posts: 194
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Re: Population: limits, size, free planets
making them gaining exp from recall , full scan , easy landing and heavy landing . whit a delay so they train slowly , make the staying home nicer .
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16 Dec 2007, 00:24
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#12
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Retired
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Back Porch Bar
Posts: 2,593
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Re: Population: limits, size, free planets
I totally agree with this idea(s).
PA needs to have more freedom in how you are able to play your planet, not less. Having the ability to choose between a predetermined set of choices isn't any better than not having any choices at all.
Give people freedom, let them use it, and see how it works out. Too many of the "features" we've seen (and I'm just as guilty of supporting as anyone) to balance gameplay have either imbalanced it, or made playing far, far too prediticable and removed the ability to really establish new strategies, tactics, and ways of playing--and succeeding--at the game.
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I'd rather be fishing.
Utterly useless since r3
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17 Dec 2007, 00:49
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#13
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 936
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Re: Population: limits, size, free planets
Fristly SpM have specialitys to choose from, which kind of cover the usage of population/goverment only u can't change your prefered gains at later stage.
The bonus gained from other than research or mining seems bit useless tho, so the same gains would be chosen again, with just higher prosent of usage. Maybe we could merge some of the lesser important gains so they would be more attractive... alltho some cov-ops (not that I understand anything about them) with 100% could be enough to force people choose some protection against them.
Anyway the game should be a bit strategial and this suggestion adds some flavour to it, so I support it fully.
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If the opponent resists, CaRnage there will be!
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17 Dec 2007, 02:01
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#14
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mz.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,587
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Re: Population: limits, size, free planets
The categories are fine as is. If you think that only research and mining are useful, you're simply wrong.
__________________
The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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17 Dec 2007, 08:07
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#15
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 936
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Re: Population: limits, size, free planets
sure, could be.
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If the opponent resists, CaRnage there will be!
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