User Name
Password

Go Back   Planetarion Forums > Planetarion Related Forums > Planetarion Suggestions

Reply
Thread Tools Display Modes
Unread 21 Oct 2007, 12:00   #1
Mzyxptlk
mz.
Alien Invasion Champion, Submarine Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Barts Watersports Adventure Champion
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,587
Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Population: limits, size, free planets

I have a few ideas and issues with/for population, as it's currently implemented.
1) Population sector ceilings
2) Population size
3) Free planet restrictions

Population Sector Ceilings

As it stands, there are 2 limiting factors when you divide your population:
1) The 100% total population ceiling
2) The individual sector ceilings (mining 25%, research 50%, construction 35%, production 60%, security 50%)

The first limit makes perfect sense, after all, you can't put more of your population to work than you actually have. My gripe is with the second limit. Why can I not dedicate my entire population to mining?

I propose removing the sector ceilings in population. This will give players more strategic freedom in deciding what kind of planet they want to have. Valuewhore? 100% mining! Researching scans or close to your HCT limit? 100% research. Scanner or distwhore? 100% construction! Incomings and a large stockpile? 100% production! Getting cov opped? 100% security!

In my opinion, this reinforces one of Planetarion's strongest points, when compared to similar games (pia, spm, etc): the fact that there are several ways to do well. By making these choices more fundamental, people will choose a path and stick with it; by making them more extreme, you encourage people to stick by those paths, and allow them to diverge more.


Along the same lines, governments could give bigger (dis)advantages, to the same effect, but more permanent, ensuring people don't switch whenever it's convenient, only to revert when the situation is resolved (think self-covering incomings).


It's possible to take it even further, by adding negative population. Right now, having 0% population in a sector does not mean that sector is doing nothing, it just means you're not paying it any particular attention. You can still produce ships, do research, mine asteroids, etc. If a player were allowed to decrease his population to below 0%, choices would become even more fundamental. This would however also mean that extreme population assignment differences could exist between individual, similarily scoring planets (say, one with 200% population on mining, the other with -50% on mining), which could result in the inverse of my goal: one single "uber strategy", while all others become either useless or trivial. In my opinion this is taking it too far.



Population Size

Why is this at all displayed? Either remove it completely, or add a line to the Information section at the bottom of the page, saying that population size has no effect on your planet whatsoever.



Free Planet Restrictions

In line with this thread, I propose creating a set of default population settings for free planets. This will make them more playable, while still ensuring they're not nearly as good as paid planets (especially if sector restrictions are removed for paid planets). This will increase the chance they stick around and buy a paid account the next round.

There are two ways to go: you can either assign 20% across the board, or assign custom values to each sector (f.ex. 15% mining, 30% research, 25% construction, 0% production, 30% security). Both options will make free planets more playable.



Opinions?
__________________
The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
Mzyxptlk is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 21 Oct 2007, 12:36   #2
Rikard
Rebellion Rebelleader
 
Rikard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Apeldoorn / Amsterdam
Posts: 330
Rikard is just really niceRikard is just really niceRikard is just really niceRikard is just really niceRikard is just really nice
Re: Population: limits, size, free planets

I think overal its a good idea but it gets too powerful.
I think mining and SA advantages should be reduced to half their bonusses now if this idea is to be used.
That means 100% mining will give 50% more income and 10% mining will give 5% more income whereas SA will give 35 alert if set on 100% and 7 Alert if set on 20%
The reason why i want to reduce those effect and not the effect on the other 3 specialties is because they have inherent restrictions. 100% construction will lead to very expencive constructions early on, 100% prod is limited by stock pile and of limited use and 100% research will lead to a few ticks advantage for something you would have finished anyway.
__________________
NiNEONE
we look a lot tougher then we are

<zhil|reportwrit> Rikard - I dont know you
<zhil|reportwrit> so you're insignificant

eXilition - LCH - Destiny - Conspiracy - Night Witches - eXcessum
Rikard is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 21 Oct 2007, 12:54   #3
furball
Registered Awesome Person
 
furball's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 5,676
furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: Population: limits, size, free planets

How about a cap at 50%? 100% strikes me as a little too powerful.
__________________
Finally free!
furball is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 21 Oct 2007, 13:33   #4
Wandows
[Vision]
 
Wandows's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 897
Wandows has a reputation beyond reputeWandows has a reputation beyond reputeWandows has a reputation beyond reputeWandows has a reputation beyond reputeWandows has a reputation beyond reputeWandows has a reputation beyond reputeWandows has a reputation beyond reputeWandows has a reputation beyond reputeWandows has a reputation beyond reputeWandows has a reputation beyond reputeWandows has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Population: limits, size, free planets

Quote:
Originally Posted by furball
How about a cap at 50%? 100% strikes me as a little too powerful.
It would be in the current setup. But by making other population settings more powerful, for example by reducing the bonus on mining per percentage of population (i.e. 0,5:1 instead of 1:1, like Rikard suggested) it could balance out. As long as all possible settings are equally interesting to choose from, unlike the current situation where there are basicly fixed settings for everyone because some options are simply better than others in terms of bonus they give (or a nessecary step, like the covop immunity issue). If it is all equal in terms of influence on your planet growth, you'd be balancing out by not being able to get full benefit of everything (like getting maxed out bonus on mining while someone else can research 3 times faster than you can).
__________________
[Vision] in a lost dream, contributing to The 5th Element at present
Wandows is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 21 Oct 2007, 13:43   #5
Mzyxptlk
mz.
Alien Invasion Champion, Submarine Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Barts Watersports Adventure Champion
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,587
Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: Population: limits, size, free planets

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rikard
I think overal its a good idea but it gets too powerful.
I think mining and SA advantages should be reduced to half their bonusses now if this idea is to be used.
That means 100% mining will give 50% more income and 10% mining will give 5% more income whereas SA will give 35 alert if set on 100% and 7 Alert if set on 20%
The reason why i want to reduce those effect and not the effect on the other 3 specialties is because they have inherent restrictions. 100% construction will lead to very expencive constructions early on, 100% prod is limited by stock pile and of limited use and 100% research will lead to a few ticks advantage for something you would have finished anyway.
Needs a bit of balancing here and there, but in principle, this sounds sensible.
__________________
The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
Mzyxptlk is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 22 Oct 2007, 01:39   #6
Makhil
Registered User
 
Makhil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,663
Makhil is a splendid one to beholdMakhil is a splendid one to beholdMakhil is a splendid one to beholdMakhil is a splendid one to beholdMakhil is a splendid one to beholdMakhil is a splendid one to beholdMakhil is a splendid one to behold
Re: Population: limits, size, free planets

I agree that the limitations are a bit artificials, it should be possible to go over them, when you exceed a certain number of buildings in 1 type (or percentage ?).
Let's say if you have 30% factories, it should give you the possibility to add 15% to Shipwright.
You have 10% sec centers, you could set your security population 5% higher
etc...
__________________
<smith> You're 15 and full of shit.
<Furious_George> no, im 22
Makhil is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 22 Oct 2007, 10:16   #7
Mzyxptlk
mz.
Alien Invasion Champion, Submarine Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Barts Watersports Adventure Champion
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,587
Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: Population: limits, size, free planets

That's a bit pointless though. If I have a lot of SCs, I don't need population on security. If I have a lot of factories, I don't need population on production.
__________________
The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
Mzyxptlk is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 23 Oct 2007, 01:32   #8
Makhil
Registered User
 
Makhil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,663
Makhil is a splendid one to beholdMakhil is a splendid one to beholdMakhil is a splendid one to beholdMakhil is a splendid one to beholdMakhil is a splendid one to beholdMakhil is a splendid one to beholdMakhil is a splendid one to behold
Re: Population: limits, size, free planets

well that means you don't have to build that many SCs to achieve the same level of protection, thus you can build more of other buildings
__________________
<smith> You're 15 and full of shit.
<Furious_George> no, im 22
Makhil is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 15 Dec 2007, 14:40   #9
Gerbie2
Alive and kicking
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Kingdom of the Netherlands
Posts: 220
Gerbie2 is a name known to allGerbie2 is a name known to allGerbie2 is a name known to allGerbie2 is a name known to allGerbie2 is a name known to allGerbie2 is a name known to all
Re: Population: limits, size, free planets

I do like this suggestion.
The mining bonus is too strong. At present it is not used for micro-management. It is a setting that is set before tickstart and never changed.
I suggest it is divided over the three resources, so you can devide your population over metal, crystal and eonium. That means you can also use it to balance your income, or as an Etd you can choose to stimulate the most the resource that you already mine the most.
Gerbie2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 15 Dec 2007, 17:56   #10
Kal
Inactive peon
 
Kal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,050
Kal has a brilliant futureKal has a brilliant futureKal has a brilliant futureKal has a brilliant futureKal has a brilliant futureKal has a brilliant futureKal has a brilliant futureKal has a brilliant futureKal has a brilliant futureKal has a brilliant futureKal has a brilliant future
Re: Population: limits, size, free planets

why not make population size actually do anything i.e. make it so that the number of people building a ship reflects how long it takes to build it (obviously you would need a logarithmic algorithm so the advantages of adding new people decreased as you add more people)
__________________
Kal

Round 6-10 NoS member-->NoS junior HC
Round 10.5 FAnG member
Round 11-15 PATeam
Round 17-30 PATeam
Round 31 ???

Check out toastmonster.com for crazy illustrations and art
Kal is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 15 Dec 2007, 21:27   #11
Bbud2
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: saved your ass
Posts: 194
Bbud2 is just really niceBbud2 is just really niceBbud2 is just really niceBbud2 is just really niceBbud2 is just really nice
Re: Population: limits, size, free planets

making them gaining exp from recall , full scan , easy landing and heavy landing . whit a delay so they train slowly , make the staying home nicer .
Bbud2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 16 Dec 2007, 00:24   #12
Cochese
Retired
 
Cochese's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Back Porch Bar
Posts: 2,593
Cochese has a reputation beyond reputeCochese has a reputation beyond reputeCochese has a reputation beyond reputeCochese has a reputation beyond reputeCochese has a reputation beyond reputeCochese has a reputation beyond reputeCochese has a reputation beyond reputeCochese has a reputation beyond reputeCochese has a reputation beyond reputeCochese has a reputation beyond reputeCochese has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Population: limits, size, free planets

I totally agree with this idea(s).

PA needs to have more freedom in how you are able to play your planet, not less. Having the ability to choose between a predetermined set of choices isn't any better than not having any choices at all.

Give people freedom, let them use it, and see how it works out. Too many of the "features" we've seen (and I'm just as guilty of supporting as anyone) to balance gameplay have either imbalanced it, or made playing far, far too prediticable and removed the ability to really establish new strategies, tactics, and ways of playing--and succeeding--at the game.
__________________
I'd rather be fishing.

Utterly useless since r3
Cochese is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 17 Dec 2007, 00:49   #13
Ave
Registered User
 
Ave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 936
Ave is a glorious beacon of lightAve is a glorious beacon of lightAve is a glorious beacon of lightAve is a glorious beacon of lightAve is a glorious beacon of lightAve is a glorious beacon of light
Re: Population: limits, size, free planets

Fristly SpM have specialitys to choose from, which kind of cover the usage of population/goverment only u can't change your prefered gains at later stage.

The bonus gained from other than research or mining seems bit useless tho, so the same gains would be chosen again, with just higher prosent of usage. Maybe we could merge some of the lesser important gains so they would be more attractive... alltho some cov-ops (not that I understand anything about them) with 100% could be enough to force people choose some protection against them.

Anyway the game should be a bit strategial and this suggestion adds some flavour to it, so I support it fully.
__________________
If the opponent resists, CaRnage there will be!
Ave is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 17 Dec 2007, 02:01   #14
Mzyxptlk
mz.
Alien Invasion Champion, Submarine Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Barts Watersports Adventure Champion
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,587
Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: Population: limits, size, free planets

The categories are fine as is. If you think that only research and mining are useful, you're simply wrong.
__________________
The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
Mzyxptlk is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 17 Dec 2007, 08:07   #15
Ave
Registered User
 
Ave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 936
Ave is a glorious beacon of lightAve is a glorious beacon of lightAve is a glorious beacon of lightAve is a glorious beacon of lightAve is a glorious beacon of lightAve is a glorious beacon of light
Re: Population: limits, size, free planets

sure, could be.
__________________
If the opponent resists, CaRnage there will be!
Ave is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 18:23.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2002 - 2018