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Unread 8 May 2008, 10:31   #51
Mzyxptlk
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Re: Remove Prelaunches

Quote:
Originally Posted by Veedeejem!
So you're suggesting we make the top players even better while crippling most of the universe to play a more defence orriented game compared to the top players that are able to get up at night.
Awesome suggestion guys, will really make planetarion better for the casual players (which in case you haven't noticed is most of the people that play planetarion)
Are you being intentionally dense? It doesn't cripple the game if the vast majority of people can't be arsed to launch in the middle of the night, a fact you clearly recognise:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Veedeejem!
Seriously though, by all means, remove prelaunch!
We'll see how many players are left in 2-3 rounds then.
So what exactly is the problem?



Quote:
Originally Posted by Veedeejem!
Like removing prelaunch is gonna be the answer to all of pa's problems, it'll just change focuss from one peakmoment to another.
Yeah. That's exactly what we're claiming. Remove prelaunch, and PA will be the best and most popular game ever!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Veedeejem!
Removing prelaunch will also not change fact that there are double bookings, the incs will just appear earlier... If you're really unlucky as a gal you might even get 8-12 ticks of incoming which is much MUCH better than 2 allies piggying eachother
Here, at last, you may be right. But at least there will be people around to defend you.

On a sidenote, you said something about pia earlier on. You'll be glad to know that in pia (before I left it anyway), it was prefectly normal to launch attacks between 20:00 and 23:00.
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Unread 8 May 2008, 10:45   #52
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Re: Remove Prelaunches

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk
Are you being intentionally dense? It doesn't cripple the game if the vast majority of people can't be arsed to launch in the middle of the night, a fact you clearly recognise:
They are crippled compared to the top players who can be arsed to launch in the middle of the night


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk
So what exactly is the problem?
Clearly you didn't notice the sarcasm


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk
Yeah. That's exactly what we're claiming. Remove prelaunch, and PA will be the best and most popular game ever!
Judging by the way some people have posted in this thread it would appear that some people actually believe that

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk
Here, at last, you may be right. But at least there will be people around to defend you.

On a sidenote, you said something about pia earlier on. You'll be glad to know that in pia (before I left it anyway), it was prefectly normal to launch attacks between 20:00 and 23:00.
Yes and pia was such a more exciting and interesting game to play, so good that today it has shitloads more players than pa and is much much more exciting and fun, doesn't stagnate like pa does, ...
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Unread 8 May 2008, 11:03   #53
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Re: Remove Prelaunches

Quote:
Originally Posted by Veedeejem!
They are crippled compared to the top players who can be arsed to launch in the middle of the night

Clearly you didn't notice the sarcasm
Read. I did recognise the sarcasm, I however turned it around and used it as an argument against you:
1) You state that there'd be very few willing to launch in the middle of the night
3) I state that because so very few are willing to launch in the middle of the night, the game would not be crippled.

When you go running, does knowing about the world record demotivate you?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Veedeejem!
Judging by the way some people have posted in this thread it would appear that some people actually believe that
I doubt that. And if they do they're idiots.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Veedeejem!
Yes and pia was such a more exciting and interesting game to play, so good that today it has shitloads more players than pa and is much much more exciting and fun, doesn't stagnate like pa does, ...
Never did I say pia was a better game. Never did I say that pia had more players than PA. All I said was that in a game without prelaunch people do not nessecarily have to get up in the middle of the night to attack. You also failed to respond to the first line in that quote:

Quote:
Originally Posted by mz
But at least there will be people around to defend you.


Note that this post is essentially a copy of my previous post. This time, it would be nice if you could reply to my actual points, as opposed to rambling away incoherently at things I haven't even said.
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Unread 8 May 2008, 11:29   #54
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Re: Remove Prelaunches

Quote:
Originally Posted by Veedeejem!
Yes and pia was such a more exciting and interesting game to play, so good that today it has shitloads more players than pa and is much much more exciting and fun, doesn't stagnate like pa does, ...
Are you suggesting that the current state of Planetarion is exciting? Pick targets late evening, prelaunch before going to sleep, wake up and see if you can land. If your gal gets picked as a target then you wake up to a load of incomings, unless you really care about the game enough to wake up in the middle of the night.

Nothing happens during the day at all, exciting and fun it certainly is not.


I'd just like prelaunch attacks to be nerfed a bit. They're too effective, you can prelaunch so many hours in advance that even if you do a jumpgate scan on yourself it still doesn't really help you unless you stay up to see exactly when those fleets arrive. If you can't stay around to defend yourself and others then you're missing out on half of the game.
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Unread 8 May 2008, 12:32   #55
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Re: Remove Prelaunches

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk
Read. I did recognise the sarcasm, I however turned it around and used it as an argument against you:
1) You state that there'd be very few willing to launch in the middle of the night
3) I state that because so very few are willing to launch in the middle of the night, the game would not be crippled.

When you go running, does knowing about the world record demotivate you?
I don't go running caus i think it's very boring, but that's not the point.
Prelaunch (and xp) were introduced to give the less hardcore players a chance to compete. Remove it and you will remove alot of these players.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk
But at least there will be people around to defend you.
Since you asked for it so nicely I'll respond to that.
Personally I don't mind a lack of def, pa is mainly set up as an attacking game: prelaunch, xp, stats that make it hard to def, ...
Imo, this game is about getting roids, losing them and then going out to get some new ones.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GReaper
I'd just like prelaunch attacks to be nerfed a bit. They're too effective, you can prelaunch so many hours in advance that even if you do a jumpgate scan on yourself it still doesn't really help you unless you stay up to see exactly when those fleets arrive. If you can't stay around to defend yourself and others then you're missing out on half of the game.
Like I said in one of my previous posts, I have no objection to nerfing prelaunch. I do however have objections to completly removing prelaunch
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Unread 8 May 2008, 12:35   #56
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Re: Remove Prelaunches

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hude
Seriously, how will this prevent double booking? You can still get double/triple/quadruple booked and the fleets spread on different waves will still collide, most likely on the latter waves. Less piggies maybe for the people who bother to launch early.
exactly less ppl for the ones who launch early and also less piggies for the ones launching late (as some allready launched early)
thats simple maths!
if u have 100 player in a universe which attack 5 gals at 4 gmt ur more likely to get pigges, as when those 100 players attack 5 gals at 23 gmt 3 gmt and 6 gmt...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hude
What?
It maybe will demand alliances to actually fake attack, launch and recall and relaunch again, at certain gals to take em down...
Whos faking attacking nowadays ? I mean seriously why would u fake attack a gal, when u get through on 80% of the planets there anyhow...
Why would u even bother to launch at a planet and check a jgp the tick later to see if he has defence and recall and relaunch again if u can set prelaunch 10 hours in advance and know the chances he will get defence are at like 10%.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Hude
Or, people will just delay their attacks till they wake up, and there's still not that much defence at the night.
hmmm again maths...if those ppl dont attack in the middle of the night, u dont need defence against those ppl in the middle of the night = those ppl who attack in the middle of the night, are more likely to be defended, as the few ppl offering def ships at night have to face less incomings at night.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hude
Having a bunch of active players launching early doesn't remove fence sitting. And even if you are super active but in a shit gal you'll still be doing pretty average. Also, activity is NOT a measure of being a good player.
ur right about fencesitting, that wont be removed and will always be a pain in the arse, but i never said there wouldnt be fencesitting if u remove prelaunches...
And yes, beeing in a shit gal wont let u win the game, but average gals maybe have a better chance then they do now, as they actually will be able to keep some of the roids they cap.
Activity is a measure of beeing a good player or it should be, but it isnt the only meassure.
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Unread 8 May 2008, 12:48   #57
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Re: Remove Prelaunches

Quote:
Originally Posted by Veedeejem!
Prelaunch (and xp) were introduced to give the less hardcore players a chance to compete. Remove it and you will remove alot of these players.
Not exactly. Prelaunch was added with the intention of giving the less hardcore players a chance. We are questioning the assumption that it performs that function.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Veedeejem!
Personally I don't mind a lack of def, pa is mainly set up as an attacking game: prelaunch, xp, stats that make it hard to def, ...
Imo, this game is about getting roids, losing them and then going out to get some new ones.
But by making the game so aggressive, we're missing out on many of the more advanced tactics, such as (Morpheus mentioned it already) fake attacking, launch/recall, and even defence, making PA a very one-dimensional game.

Involving the stats in this discussion is probably not a good idea, as game mechanics and stats take place on two completely different levels.
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Unread 8 May 2008, 13:16   #58
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Re: Remove Prelaunches

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk
Not exactly. Prelaunch was added with the intention of giving the less hardcore players a chance. We are questioning the assumption that it performs that function.
Considering that over the rounds since it's introduction alot of people have finished t100 by using prelaunch and staying in bed when they want to, I'd say it does.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk
But by making the game so aggressive, we're missing out on many of the more advanced tactics, such as (Morpheus mentioned it already) fake attacking, launch/recall, and even defence, making PA a very one-dimensional game.
You can still do all those advanced tactics, you just have to decide if you want to use them or not. These tactics you refer to are not depending on prelaunch. Like you yourself said earlier "You don't have to get up in the middle of the night you fool." If you chose to get up in the middle of the night you can still use those tactics as much as you want to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk
Involving the stats in this discussion is probably not a good idea, as game mechanics and stats take place on two completely different levels.
The problem with alot of these discussions is that most people tend to focuss just on the topic at hand when there are countless other factors that need to be considered aswell.
You are correct when you say that they take place on 2 different levels, but both of them have an impact in the final result.
If prelaunch would be removed the impact on the attacking nature of pa could (would) be minimal since there are all these other factors that still play in the favour of an attacking style.
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Unread 8 May 2008, 13:25   #59
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Re: Remove Prelaunches

Quote:
Originally Posted by Veedeejem!
The problem with alot of these discussions is that most people tend to focuss just on the topic at hand when there are countless other factors that need to be considered aswell.
You are correct when you say that they take place on 2 different levels, but both of them have an impact in the final result.
If prelaunch would be removed the impact on the attacking nature of pa could (would) be minimal since there are all these other factors that still play in the favour of an attacking style.
Right, its many factores makin PA a aggressiv game...
And imo it should stay aggresiv, but not that outbalanced as it is now,
as it nowadays is only about attacking and getting roids and having fingers crossed not to get incs.

removing prelaunch (or maybe reducing it to 2-3 ticks for attacks) won´t make the game a defensive one, but it will balance it out a lil bit.
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Unread 8 May 2008, 13:28   #60
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Re: Remove Prelaunches

Quote:
Originally Posted by M0RPH3US
Right, its many factores makin PA a aggressiv game...
And imo it should stay aggresiv, but not that outbalanced as it is now,
as it nowadays is only about attacking and getting roids and having fingers crossed not to get incs.

removing prelaunch (or maybe reducing it to 2-3 ticks for attacks) won´t make the game a defensive one, but it will balance it out a lil bit.
Like I said before (bold for extra dramatics) I have no objection to reducing it to 3 ticks for attack & 9 for def, I do however object to completly removing it from the game.
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Unread 8 May 2008, 13:52   #61
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Re: Remove Prelaunches

Quote:
Originally Posted by Veedeejem!
Considering that over the rounds since it's introduction alot of people have finished t100 by using prelaunch and staying in bed when they want to, I'd say it does.
Of course. The game forces them into using it, because no one launches before 3am. Without prelaunch, many people will launch between 23pm and 1am, because they will still not want to wake up in the middle of the night, and they'll still be able to finish top100. Then the end result is the same, with the same amount of effort. The only thing that changes is that people will be able to defend more often.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Veedeejem!
You can still do all those advanced tactics, you just have to decide if you want to use them or not. These tactics you refer to are not depending on prelaunch. Like you yourself said earlier "You don't have to get up in the middle of the night you fool." If you chose to get up in the middle of the night you can still use those tactics as much as you want to.
They are however extremely discouraged by the current "do not launch before 3am" mentality. Waking up once to launch a bunch of attacks is one thing. Doing it 2 or 3 times is propably too much for even the most hardcore of players.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Veedeejem!
The problem with alot of these discussions is that most people tend to focuss just on the topic at hand when there are countless other factors that need to be considered aswell.
You are correct when you say that they take place on 2 different levels, but both of them have an impact in the final result.
If prelaunch would be removed the impact on the attacking nature of pa could (would) be minimal since there are all these other factors that still play in the favour of an attacking style.
I don't agree. When the amount of available defence fleets at prime time triples, the game more or less automatically becomes more defensive in nature, regardless of whether the stats change or not.
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Unread 8 May 2008, 14:37   #62
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Re: Remove Prelaunches

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk
the current "do not launch before 3am" mentality.
This is the key statement in your entire post imo.
Prelaunch itself is not responsible for everybody attacking at the same time. It's the mentality that causes that.
The real issue is hc's & bc's not willing to diversify their attack pattern. They try to squeeze as much inc as possible in an as short as possible timeframe, reason for this is simple, less chance of def.
If prelaunch would be removed that would not change it would just shift the problem to another timeframe. Except for maybe 1-2 top allies that manage to recruit alot of people that can get up at night who will completly dominate.
Sure, there would be a little bit more def, but the total amount of incomings would still outnumber the defence alot.
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Unread 8 May 2008, 14:38   #63
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Re: Remove Prelaunches

Quote:
Originally Posted by Veedeejem!
Considering that over the rounds since it's introduction alot of people have finished t100 by using prelaunch and staying in bed when they want to, I'd say it does.
I ended top3 with doing nothing but prelaunching at 22gmt or so, then sleep till work next morning at 05:30-06:00.

Prelaunching is WAYYY too good. its imbalanced.
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Unread 8 May 2008, 14:44   #64
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Re: Remove Prelaunches

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wishmaster
I ended top3 with doing nothing but prelaunching at 22gmt or so, then sleep till work next morning at 05:30-06:00.

Prelaunching is WAYYY too good. its imbalanced.
& that's why it should be nerfed like has been suggested in this thread many times before. No need to completly remove it.
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Unread 8 May 2008, 14:49   #65
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Re: Remove Prelaunches

Quote:
Originally Posted by Veedeejem!
& that's why it should be nerfed like has been suggested in this thread many times before. No need to completly remove it.
then we can stop fighting each other, as we seem to agree on the point that prelaunch is too strong atm!

I still aim the total removal of it, but i can live with a 2-3 tick only prelaunch aswell.
Anyhow its up to PA team to decide on that...

also i like to add, that i didnt find a single one yet(apart from here in this discussion), telling me he would quit, if PA removes prelaunch, i found some who wouldtn fancy it too much, but they still would be playing. And most i found agree on the Removal.
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Unread 8 May 2008, 15:12   #66
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Re: Remove Prelaunches

We're in danger of missing the point here. Defence is the part of the game which encourages players to become (and remain) part of the community. Without that, the game is too boring to retain (new) players.

Also - even a limited amount of pre-launch on attacks causes the problem of lack of defence.

Why?

Because people can still pre-launch their attack fleets and go to bed without waiting to see if their defence is needed. Of course, removing prelaunch won't solve that problem altogether - some people will launch their attacks 30 seconds after the tick and then go to bed. Ideally, a team player will launch just before the tick and wait until the next tick to offer defence before calling it a night.
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Unread 8 May 2008, 16:09   #67
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Re: Remove Prelaunches

Quote:
Originally Posted by Veedeejem!
Prelaunch itself is not responsible for everybody attacking at the same time. It's the mentality that causes that.
The real issue is hc's & bc's not willing to diversify their attack pattern. They try to squeeze as much inc as possible in an as short as possible timeframe, reason for this is simple, less chance of def.
Prelaunch helps cause the mentality though.

Prelaunch allows anyone to launch at 3AM and onwards without any effort at all. Nobody wants to launch earlier because they don't want to be the first fleets moving too early and getting defence and few people will want to launch too late as it's possible to get defended against with morning defence.

I'd guess what some of us are hoping for is that if prelaunch was removed entirely we'd see a wider attack window. The more casual players will launch a couple of minutes after the tick at the latest time possible before going to bed. The more hardcore players will get up during the night just to send a fleet out to attack. However if HCs and BCs refuse to offer their members an earlier attack window because their members can't launch for later landing ticks then they'll be losing their attack fleets effectiveness.

I'm assuming that one of the next two rounds is going to be a free round, it might be interesting to add it for that particular round to see the effect of it.
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Unread 8 May 2008, 16:11   #68
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Re: Remove Prelaunches

Quote:
Originally Posted by Veedeejem!
This is the key statement in your entire post imo.
Prelaunch itself is not responsible for everybody attacking at the same time. It's the mentality that causes that.
The real issue is hc's & bc's not willing to diversify their attack pattern. They try to squeeze as much inc as possible in an as short as possible timeframe, reason for this is simple, less chance of def.
If prelaunch would be removed that would not change it would just shift the problem to another timeframe. Except for maybe 1-2 top allies that manage to recruit alot of people that can get up at night who will completly dominate.
Sure, there would be a little bit more def, but the total amount of incomings would still outnumber the defence alot.
...
Prelaunch is exactly the reason for everybody attacking at the same time, pa is considered a european game and i guess that most players are european, with this, the best time to launch is simply while they are sleeping, its pretty standard logic, why would they wait to attack during the day when alot more def fleets are going to be available to defend against them.

Removing it would most probably change the pattern, people who can be active during the night would benefit because of the defence or attacks they have sent, they would know if they could recall during the middle of the night and get a better use of there fleet, plus numerous other reasons. Why shouldnt their activity be rewarded? They put more effort in why shouldnt they reap the rewards? Yes yes circumstances have changed a lot for people, we are no longer the young breed of players we used to be, we cant be on all night anymore as we have jobs, responsibilties, well guess what, circumstances change, life goes on.

As a side im one of those who goes to bed about midnight and wont wake up for pa anymore and will sleep till he has to goto work.
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Unread 8 May 2008, 16:26   #69
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Re: Remove Prelaunches

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArcChas
We're in danger of missing the point here. Defence is the part of the game which encourages players to become (and remain) part of the community. Without that, the game is too boring to retain (new) players.

Also - even a limited amount of pre-launch on attacks causes the problem of lack of defence.

Why?

Because people can still pre-launch their attack fleets and go to bed without waiting to see if their defence is needed. Of course, removing prelaunch won't solve that problem altogether - some people will launch their attacks 30 seconds after the tick and then go to bed. Ideally, a team player will launch just before the tick and wait until the next tick to offer defence before calling it a night.
Yes u got a point there, its just that i would be allready happy with a slight adjustment of the prelaunch issue...
but i if i was to decide would still REMOVE it totally (for attacks)
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Unread 8 May 2008, 17:24   #70
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Re: Remove Prelaunches

Quote:
Originally Posted by Veedeejem!
This is the key statement in your entire post imo.
Prelaunch itself is not responsible for everybody attacking at the same time. It's the mentality that causes that.
The real issue is hc's & bc's not willing to diversify their attack pattern. They try to squeeze as much inc as possible in an as short as possible timeframe, reason for this is simple, less chance of def.
If prelaunch would be removed that would not change it would just shift the problem to another timeframe. Except for maybe 1-2 top allies that manage to recruit alot of people that can get up at night who will completly dominate.
Sure, there would be a little bit more def, but the total amount of incomings would still outnumber the defence alot.
But if the timeframe moves, and prelaunch doesn't exist, then people can defend at the same time as they press the launch button for their attacks, thus decreasing the chance of getting roided.

And you're right, there will still be more attack fleets than defence fleets, and that's fine. The goal isn't to make attacks impossible to land. It's to allow people to do both attack and defence.
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Unread 8 May 2008, 17:45   #71
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Re: Remove Prelaunches

Im not sure removing pre-launches would have as much an effect on defence as this thread seems to indicate, a large part of the problem is simply that the vast majority of the active universe attacks with two or even three fleets a night, thus the ratio of attack to defence fleets is 3:2 where to be effective for defence it needs to be the other way around. that is player preference not game mechanics.
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Unread 8 May 2008, 17:58   #72
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Re: Remove Prelaunches

Quote:
Originally Posted by [B5]Londo
Im not sure removing pre-launches would have as much an effect on defence as this thread seems to indicate, a large part of the problem is simply that the vast majority of the active universe attacks with two or even three fleets a night, thus the ratio of attack to defence fleets is 3:2 where to be effective for defence it needs to be the other way around.
Again, I'm not under the illusion that everyone will suddenly defend with 2 or 3 fleets a night when prelaunch is removed. Just that the fleets that are at home can be put to use before the player goes to bed, as opposed to going to waste because the player isn't around when the attacks finally show up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by [B5]Londo
that is player preference not game mechanics.
The game mechanics have created the player preference. If my defence fleets were sitting idly at home because I'm not around when they're needed, then sure, I'd launch as many attack fleets as I could too.
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Unread 8 May 2008, 18:09   #73
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Re: Remove Prelaunches

Quote:
Originally Posted by M0RPH3US
but i if i was to decide would still REMOVE it totally (for attacks)
In that case I wouldn't consider playing again. If there are more like me, then it's probably an awful idea. We can't throw away a chunk of the playerbase.

I'm quite in favour of displaying prelaunch etas on jgps, at least for attacks.

Activity is rewarded more, defence is more viable (it can be organised before going to bed) and it doesn't ruin the game for people who rely on prelaunches. On the whole it seems pretty sensible unless I missed something blatant.
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Unread 8 May 2008, 18:20   #74
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Re: Remove Prelaunches

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gate
Activity is rewarded more, defence is more viable (it can be organised before going to bed) and it doesn't ruin the game for people who rely on prelaunches. On the whole it seems pretty sensible unless I missed something blatant.
Let's pretend we've implemented this. Instead of launching eta10 (without prelaunch), I launch eta10+5. The planet I'm attacking can tell that it's eta15, and arrange defence immediately. This is identical to arranging defence for the eta10 incoming, the only difference being that the attack and defence fleets don't sit at home for 5 ticks before they launch.

Further, if I get online when my attack fleet is eta10, I can check if there's defence, recall a second before the tick, relaunch a second after, again resulting in the same scenarion as when there is no prelaunch at all, namely that of the hardcore player getting up at 4am to launch, only now we've tied up between 2 and 5 defence fleets in the process.
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Last edited by Mzyxptlk; 8 May 2008 at 18:29.
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Unread 8 May 2008, 18:21   #75
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Re: Remove Prelaunches

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk

The game mechanics have created the player preference. If my defence fleets were sitting idly at home because I'm not around when they're needed, then sure, I'd launch as many attack fleets as I could too.
I two fleet defended most of this round and from that experience I can see that ppl dont defend simply because it gets you no-where, I have had no benefits from my being my alliances top defender, I'm not prioritised for defence so I lose roids faster than I gain em because I only have 1 fleet attacking, the xp from defence is pretty minimal really compared to the prospect of a good landing, and for all my defending I have yet to get much salvage at all, Ive lost more ships defending than I have gotten back in salvage. Its a simple cost/benefit analysis which leads to everyone attacking, the fleets would not be used in defence even if they had the oppertunity

and yes I DC so Im cynical
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Unread 8 May 2008, 18:26   #76
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Re: Remove Prelaunches

Sillily enough you removed exactly that part of my post that contains the answer to your reply:

Quote:
Originally Posted by mz
Again, I'm not under the illusion that everyone will suddenly defend with 2 or 3 fleets a night when prelaunch is removed. Just that the fleets that are at home can be put to use before the player goes to bed, as opposed to going to waste because the player isn't around when the attacks finally show up.
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Unread 8 May 2008, 18:37   #77
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Re: Remove Prelaunches

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpaceLegend
i just wanna throw in 2 cents and ask a question:
wouldn't the removal of pre-launch bring back the account sharing problem?
Yeah, it probably would. For those who don't seem to understand this, it was commonplace before pre-launch for people to ask their active friends to launch for them at the appropriate time. With pre-launch this isn't a problem.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk
If everyone attacks at midnight instead of at 4AM, yes, there will be more defence available. Landing attacks will be harder, defence will become more important. The few that can be arsed to get up in the middle of the night will grow faster. But really, how many people are still willing to get up every night to launch attacks? Sure, when an alliance is planet targetting another alliance, they might be able to convince their members to get up for a night. But very few will be willing to do this throughout the round. These will be the players that usually already end in the top25, so nothing really changes. Instead of having 25 people who rarely lose roids, we get 25 people who rarely have to recall attacks.
What you probably will find though is that the top alliances will start to force their players to get up at stupid o'clock again. The players that refuse to do so will end up having to find a new alliance.
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Unread 8 May 2008, 18:40   #78
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Re: Remove Prelaunches

If enough people refuse, alliances that "force" (no such thing) their members will quickly run dry.
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Unread 8 May 2008, 18:41   #79
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Re: Remove Prelaunches

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gate
I'm quite in favour of displaying prelaunch etas on jgps, at least for attacks.
I was considering the suggestion of adding it to incoming scans. So if you wanted to find the exact ETA you'd have to be online yourself to do a scan. It would also give an advantage to those who have plenty of distorters - they'd be immune from it but still show up on jumpgate as usual.

It might encourage more surface scans, if your target has more amps than you've got distorters you wouldn't want to prelaunch unless you had to.
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Unread 8 May 2008, 18:41   #80
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Re: Remove Prelaunches

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wishmaster
I ended top3 with doing nothing but prelaunching at 22gmt or so, then sleep till work next morning at 05:30-06:00.

Prelaunching is WAYYY too good. its imbalanced.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Veedeejem!
& that's why it should be nerfed like has been suggested in this thread many times before. No need to completly remove it.
Should PA be a game of skill or a game of activity? That's what this all boils down to.


Look at PA's current playerbase. The majority of players are no longer willing to get up at silly times to send ships - they have a real life to worry about and aren't willing to jeopardise that.

It makes no sense to remove pre-launch when it's the only thing keeping the game viable for players with 9-5 jobs who don't stay awake past 11pm/midnight GMT.
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Unread 8 May 2008, 18:43   #81
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Re: Remove Prelaunches

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk
If enough people refuse, alliances that "force" (no such thing) their members will quickly run dry.
There will be enough to populate a couple of alliances. All this would achieve would be to lengthen out a food-chain that's got (and this is a good thing) shorter since PAX. We can't afford for players to have fewer targets than they currently do, the playerbase is too small as it is.
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Unread 8 May 2008, 18:46   #82
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Re: Remove Prelaunches

Quote:
Originally Posted by furball
There will be enough to populate a couple of alliances. All this would achieve would be to lengthen out a food-chain that's got (and this is a good thing) shorter since PAX. We can't afford for players to have fewer targets than they currently do, the playerbase is too small as it is.
I have no idea what you're talking about here, please explain.
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Unread 8 May 2008, 19:00   #83
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Re: Remove Prelaunches

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk
Sillily enough you removed exactly that part of my post that contains the answer to your reply:
my apologies; the point of my post is that it is easy to regard defending any more than your alliances demanded minimum is a waste, because it does not pay. ie whether or not they would be up at the right time to defend sending multiple attacks will still be preferred, obviously if on the odd occasion U can only get through a single target on the nights raid (or for whatever reason cant find an attack parter) then you would then be able to offer whatever useless (in attack) ships U now have free for two defences and that would be an improvement on the situation with pre-launches atm but still I doubt enough to tip the balance. (so basically I agree but dont think its a significant change to the defence situation)
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Unread 8 May 2008, 19:20   #84
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Re: Remove Prelaunches

Quote:
Originally Posted by furball
There will be enough to populate a couple of alliances. All this would achieve would be to lengthen out a food-chain that's got (and this is a good thing) shorter since PAX. We can't afford for players to have fewer targets than they currently do, the playerbase is too small as it is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk
I have no idea what you're talking about here, please explain.
The harder it is for some players to attack than others (because of a comparative lack of activity) the quicker the more active people will grow. This means that they'll grow in value quicker and be increasingly more difficult to attack.

This would mean that the food chain would be longer (and thinner) since there would be fewer targets available for each player.
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Unread 8 May 2008, 19:27   #85
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Re: Remove Prelaunches

I would not say that the big players being streets ahead of the little ones is really a good thing even if the little ones dont have to cope with the incoming from so many big ppl
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Unread 8 May 2008, 20:05   #86
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Re: Remove Prelaunches

Quote:
Originally Posted by M0RPH3US
lo, after returning to PA after 3 years break, i have to say most of the changes which happend are really good.

One is destroying the game....PRELAUNCH!!!
Not to downplay somebody's ideas but from a perspective of someone that works full time, i don't understand how pre-launch is having anything but a positive effect on the game, yes im sure it was all fun when there was a huge playerbase and there was no pre-launch but from my point of view it would make the game near unplayable, unless of course i put PA in front of RL, which i don't, and hope nobody else sees as a good move anyway.
From what i see gaming has moved forward and ppl are drawn towards the more visual aspect of HD gaming forgetting how fun it can be to play a game that doesn't need a top spec PC or a serious bank account.
Making changes to the game only effects the people playing it at that time, putting in a new or in this case older feature would not draw in players imo eg: if GTA were to go all 2D again would you rush out and buy a copy, i think not.

Ty for bothering to read and try not to Trash it too much
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Unread 8 May 2008, 20:45   #87
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Re: Remove Prelaunches

if i couldn't pre-launch i wouldn't play this game at all,
people that work dont' have the time to check there planets if they r busy sometimes. so they'll lose there roids, but atleast they can save ships by pre-launching or regain roids by landing after they come back.
and im sure this includes half of the playerbase here.
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Unread 8 May 2008, 22:00   #88
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Re: Remove Prelaunches

All I can say is:
TY Furball for explaining what I've been trying to tell people in words they might understand!

I just hope people manage to get it through their thick skull that removing prelaunch would be a bad idea and would just force alot of people to not play anymore.
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Unread 8 May 2008, 22:07   #89
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Re: Remove Prelaunches

These short rounds suck and don't reward activity/skill enough for me to be perfectly happy with something being changed to compensate. Ideally I'd just like two weeks more though.
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Unread 8 May 2008, 22:20   #90
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Re: Remove Prelaunches

oki i was thinking, what will happend if we removed the prelaunched. maybe then we see 75 of those most "hardcore" = (the one sitting up all night) joining same ally. this idea will not only give the hardcore player a better change to do good, it also will give the hardcore ally a much higher value and score. so belive we will see bigger gap betwine the allys. if its good or bad, i dont know.

i think we must cange the stats a bit, if we remove it. To day we se ofen teamups, and it will be less both teamup and piggiback. so i feel we need to adjust the stats a bit more agressiv, if we remove the prelauncing. so the less "hardcore" also can land somtimes.
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Unread 8 May 2008, 22:43   #91
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Re: Remove Prelaunches

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hude
Also, activity is NOT a measure of being a good player.
this I believe is the whole idea of slower etas and pre-launch and everything else we (you) changed to prevent people having a need to sacrifice whole lifes for the game. ->People can stay in the game longer.

The win should come by tactical and somehow visionary play, not by measuring time of peoples lifes.

Quote:
Alot of the people that can't be online at night to send attacks will get frustrated: they grow slow, can't get roids much, ...
I predict alot of these people will quit the game.
Eventually pa will only have the hardcore players left that are able to get up at night.
Sounds like fun hu?
Not only the early waves who frustrate and suffer... also the ones who stay up and are annoyed for low participation. When it ends to the usual scenario, where people start selecting the most active people to play on their side, to get the attacks done at best times > teams get unbalanced and soon we have a bunch of selfish scorequeen morons with all the time on their hands (not all with time fit in here tho, dont get me wrong :P) running things in this game. as it has happened in every single game at some stage.

Also to MZ:

Pia had 30 min ticks, so u could show activity otherwise than by staying up all night long, u could hit several times during day. Still most of the big hits were arranged to 2-4am
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Unread 8 May 2008, 23:59   #92
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Re: Remove Prelaunches

Quote:
Originally Posted by Veedeejem!
All I can say is:
TY Furball for explaining what I've been trying to tell people in words they might understand!

I just hope people manage to get it through their thick skull that removing prelaunch would be a bad idea and would just force alot of people to not play anymore.
you arent even looking at the bigger picture, all you are looking at is, omg i wont be able to launch within <thistimeframe> because i will be asleep, omgomg people who are more active will be able to though, by the feeling in this thread seeing so many people wanting prelaunch to stay is a good thing, because ultimately i think it will benefit those people the most by removing it, people cant seem to get out of the mindset that pa must be played in this way when it doesnt, and its a pity because you yourself were banging on earlier about not seeing the 'bigger picture'
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Unread 9 May 2008, 08:30   #93
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Re: Remove Prelaunches

Removing pre launch wouldnt make a huge difference, its not as though there are enough alliance defence fleets, it seems that most of the time its ingalaxy defence thats forces a recall from my targets. Most alliances would just attack earlier and alot of people would have still gone to sleep in any case. The only slight concern would be increased soloing (people moaning about staying up to xam), but thats a problem for alliance hc's to deal with.
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Unread 9 May 2008, 08:31   #94
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Re: Remove Prelaunches

Quote:
Originally Posted by furball
Should PA be a game of skill or a game of activity? That's what this all boils down to.


Look at PA's current playerbase. The majority of players are no longer willing to get up at silly times to send ships - they have a real life to worry about and aren't willing to jeopardise that.

It makes no sense to remove pre-launch when it's the only thing keeping the game viable for players with 9-5 jobs who don't stay awake past 11pm/midnight GMT.
awww.
Thanks! ( I read your post as I wished, and from it I read that your saying I ended top3 based on skills rather than activity! <3 )

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Unread 9 May 2008, 09:13   #95
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Re: Remove Prelaunches

all I can say is, YES remove prelaunch!
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Unread 9 May 2008, 10:29   #96
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Re: Remove Prelaunches

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alki
you arent even looking at the bigger picture, all you are looking at is, omg i wont be able to launch within <thistimeframe> because i will be asleep, omgomg people who are more active will be able to though, by the feeling in this thread seeing so many people wanting prelaunch to stay is a good thing, because ultimately i think it will benefit those people the most by removing it, people cant seem to get out of the mindset that pa must be played in this way when it doesnt, and its a pity because you yourself were banging on earlier about not seeing the 'bigger picture'
No its you failing to see the bigger picture... the game is far more challenging and hardcore and there is more to do when the lesser active people from alliance can move their fleets along with others (regardless what is the lt.) I am sure veedeejm and others speaking behalf of keeping pre-launch can variate their game play and launch times to own you anytime regardless. But simply the pre-launch allows alliances to start more from same line (read the most likely happening scenarios above, if we make it activity contest.)

But I am sure we can still remove the pre-launch aslong as something comes in to balance the efects.
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Unread 9 May 2008, 10:38   #97
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Re: Remove Prelaunches

tbh I am not sure that removing prelaunch is even good for those who do get up during the night. remove prelaunch and surely it would mean that I can no longer go to bed at 22:30 game time and wake up at 03:30 in order to check for incs on me and my gal and report them. instead I would hardly get to bed before I need to get up at 01:00 to check for the non hardcore players launching, and then a couple of hours later for the hardcore attacks. I am not sure I could survive that level of required activity!
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Unread 9 May 2008, 11:14   #98
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Re: Remove Prelaunches

What do you mean by "required activity"? Is the game unplayable if you lose roids every now and again?
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Unread 9 May 2008, 11:24   #99
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Re: Remove Prelaunches

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk
What do you mean by "required activity"? Is the game unplayable if you lose roids every now and again?
so U dont think its useful for a gal to have someone up to report incomings?

as in my gal atm if its not me then it wont be anyone
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aargh! died in Jenova! | idled in ROCK | disappointed in Audentes | been Roguish | p-p-previously a p-p-p3nguin
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Unread 9 May 2008, 11:46   #100
Mzyxptlk
mz.
Alien Invasion Champion, Submarine Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Barts Watersports Adventure Champion
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,587
Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: Remove Prelaunches

Quote:
Originally Posted by booji
so U dont think its useful for a gal to have someone up to report incomings?

as in my gal atm if its not me then it wont be anyone
I haven't the faintest idea how you concluded that from my post. Here it is again, I advise you to read it this time:

Quote:
Originally Posted by mz
What do you mean by "required activity"? Is the game unplayable if you lose roids every now and again?
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The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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