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Unread 11 Oct 2007, 22:05   #1
Pilatus
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Escorting

I know why it's made, to avoid escorting (obviously). And even though i'm against escorting, i'm more biased against ppl being able to def without risking anything by sending an attackfleet.

Isn't it a tad better that ppl escort someone in their own ally, then someone else in another ally ruins an attack by sending no roiding ships?

Why not make it impossible to attack someone if you don't send enough roiders to cap something like 5% of their roids, instead of swithching between making it possible to defend by attacking or making it useless to escort someone?

Sorry, it might be that i'm the only one who's got a tad annoyed to see someone sending a much bigger fleet without pods, to ruin an attack. And in the other attackers defence, i can say that just maybe he were only trying to cap ships
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Unread 11 Oct 2007, 23:03   #2
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Re: Escorting

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pilatus
I know why it's made, to avoid escorting (obviously). And even though i'm against escorting, i'm more biased against ppl being able to def without risking anything by sending an attackfleet.

Isn't it a tad better that ppl escort someone in their own ally, then someone else in another ally ruins an attack by sending no roiding ships?

Why not make it impossible to attack someone if you don't send enough roiders to cap something like 5% of their roids, instead of swithching between making it possible to defend by attacking or making it useless to escort someone?

Sorry, it might be that i'm the only one who's got a tad annoyed to see someone sending a much bigger fleet without pods, to ruin an attack. And in the other attackers defence, i can say that just maybe he were only trying to cap ships
Your proposing the elimination of red defense, a time honored tradition dating all the way back to R1. While I'm not one for 'tradition' this is one I see no need to eliminate just because you don't like the effective use of a tactic. While it is annoying I don't see anything inherently 'wrong' with it and I feel it should continue to be allowed.
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Unread 12 Oct 2007, 00:05   #3
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Re: Escorting

What the hell are you talking about.
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Unread 12 Oct 2007, 02:24   #4
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Re: Escorting

Another (easy) way to tackle the problem (if it is one) would be to distribute the roids gained by "pods value" instead of "whole fleet value"...

If it was to be a valid tactic then members of the same ally/gal should be allowed to attack each other... as it is now it's more about exploiting a weakness in the game (another PA tradition) than a feature...
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Unread 12 Oct 2007, 03:00   #5
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Re: Escorting

if i understand you both correctly, your talking about a situation whereby 'red defence' is people sending fleets to attack with no pods to mess up the cap of attacking fleets? does this actually happern? i can't say i've ever seen it or know of anyone who's ever experienced it. As far as it being an effective strategy of defence, theirs the fact that you can't launch at ally mates, that you'd have to know about it in advance for it to work on fi/co and that for it to make a sizeable difference on the cap then the 'red defence' fleet would have to be of a much greater value than the attacker, which seems even more inefficient and a waste of a fleet. If your going to all this effort then just build some def ships

Considering how ineffective this seems i don;t see the need to put further restrictions on it.
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Unread 12 Oct 2007, 07:21   #6
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Re: Escorting

Should a piggy who just sends mass pods get more roids than someone who sends enough fleet to counter the enemy's fleet/enough pods for full cap?


(no)
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Unread 12 Oct 2007, 16:16   #7
Monroe
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Re: Escorting

I agree with furball, the suggestion Makhil makes would make the problem worse not better. Roid distribution by total fleet value is the way to go. Red defense is a lot less common then it used to be because you cannot attack your ally mates. But it doesn't stop it, because if you have friends outside of your ally you can have them join in on the attack on you to help save your roids, I use this tactic myself, especially when I have a large number of roids and have 7 or 8 waves of incomming. Best way to save at least some of those roids is to find someone to attack you, rather then trying to find defense if my ally is being heavily taxed.
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Unread 12 Oct 2007, 19:31   #8
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Re: Escorting

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monroe
Best way to save at least some of those roids is to find someone to attack you
sorry to burst your bubble but thats roid farming
and last time i checked its illegal in the game
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Unread 12 Oct 2007, 19:34   #9
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Re: Escorting

Quote:
Originally Posted by gzambo
sorry to burst your bubble but thats roid farming
and last time i checked its illegal in the game
if you don't cap any then it's hardly farming
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Unread 12 Oct 2007, 20:17   #10
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Re: Escorting

Quote:
Originally Posted by gzambo
sorry to burst your bubble but thats roid farming
and last time i checked its illegal in the game
It does not fix the definition of farming for two reasons, one as previously stated no roids, or XP is gained by anyone, so there is nothing going on that can be considered as cheating. Secondly even if my 'friend' sends pods, how do you distinguish between my friend and the other attackers? Remember the idea is to match etas with the other attackers, not add new waves. Unless you want to say that I am farming by 'allowing' members of another ally to take my roids, and therefore close the other allies members and myself it can't be punished as farming, but instead is simply the fortunes of war.
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Unread 12 Oct 2007, 22:50   #11
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Re: Escorting

Honestly, I like red defence, I think it was Monroe who wrote a huge thread about it way back, though my memory is still a bit fuzzy.

Either way, I do think it is a valid strategy and there is no reason to put more restrictions on it, or on the game in general, the last thing we need is to put so many restrictions that it makes the game literally unplayable.
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Unread 13 Oct 2007, 08:59   #12
Pilatus
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Re: Escorting

I have to admit, one of the reason they could use it against me were because i prelaunched by 30 minutes

However i think it's better that ppl are able to escort someone, instead of being able to lower cap without even loosing ships. Atleast by escorting you can't avoid a battle, unlike sending ships that won't cap. And if there's a choice between 2 kinda ways of abusing the rules, then i prefer the one were a battle is involved.

Last edited by Pilatus; 13 Oct 2007 at 09:07.
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Unread 13 Oct 2007, 10:03   #13
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Re: Escorting

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monroe
It does not fix the definition of farming for two reasons, one as previously stated no roids, or XP is gained by anyone, so there is nothing going on that can be considered as cheating.
Its the difference between an "Accounting gain" and an "Economic gain".

Your case of an accounting gain, where there actually has to be an increase, is generally used in the rules. However, this doesnt have to be the case.

The alternative, the economic gain, is where the prevention of loss is a gain, or the minimising of said loss is also a gain, thus there are "economic gains" to that red defensive action.

All that aside, i still think "red defence" (such as it is in this case, see the PAwiki article), is still a viable tactic and should be encouraged. Also, because of the problems of double-booked galaxies, there would be no real way to tell absolutely what's what.
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Unread 13 Oct 2007, 11:10   #14
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Re: Escorting

Now i really feel like whining the way i were tempted to when i ended up with 20 roids from a 500 roid target. But i feel more like expressing the way i felt atm.

Except from swearing at pa team, and wanted to kick someone in their holiest place, i've never felt more like quitting this game. Ofcause i'm not going to do that, especially since i got a credit left. And even though i didn't read the manual well enough, i had a feeling that i shouldn't prelaunched.

But if we really wanted new players in this game, is it really a good option to let them having to figure out why they only capped 5% of roids. And worse if if they lost ships. If it were you do and you were new to this game, do you think your first reaction would be that you didn't read the manual well enough, or that something were wrong with the fleet that you sent?

Last edited by Pilatus; 13 Oct 2007 at 11:18.
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