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Unread 1 Mar 2005, 02:50   #1
BeeKiller
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PA Should Bring Back An Old Round

I've been discussing this with quite alot of people reminissing back to the old days of planetarion etc, how much we loved the old rounds, especially round 2, and I was thinking, why don't PA bring back round2, and by that I mean completely bring it back. Try to get the game dynamics, ship stats, the look and the feel of round to back, but not in place of the current PAX rounds, as either something you can play as well as R13/R14 etc or something they can have ready and put on for in between rounds. However it wouldn't be worth either the effort of the creators coding it, or of us paying for and playing it, if it was your average speedgame or weekend game, it should be a relatively long thing (at least a month). I know i'd be prepared to pay to play it, and I'm sure others would also, perhaps even pay marginally more than we pay currently because of the amount of work required to bring back a working game engine that looked like, felt like, and played like round 2.
Now I'm quite certain this type of thing has been suggested a long time ago, and I'm sure I remember pa team saying they no longer had the old source code, but before you dismiss this, please listen to the number of people who would be prepared to pay for this, especially if everything was like round 2 (including alliances), I'm sure enough people would pay to make it worthwhile PA team putting in the effort, and i for one would be prepared to pay slightly more than usual if they did put in the work required to do this.
Please don't flame this as I'm certain it's been suggested before (i realise this) but considering the return of alot of old players to planetarion, and Planetarions continued goal to attract new ones, wouldn't it be a good way to do that by reminding us of the past and what attracted us so much towards this brilliantly addictive text based browser game!

Your thoughts if you will.
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Unread 1 Mar 2005, 02:52   #2
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Re: PA Should Bring Back An Old Round

For this to happen the gam would have to be re coded again. Round 10 was a total recode.

There are no backups or remaining copies of post Round 10.
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Unread 1 Mar 2005, 02:58   #3
BeeKiller
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Re: PA Should Bring Back An Old Round

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marv
For this to happen the gam would have to be re coded again. Round 10 was a total recode.

There are no backups or remaining copies of post Round 10.
I realise this, thats why i say it wouldn't be worth there effort if it was a short game. Obviously they'd have to recode, though the recoded engine would be something seperate from the game engine they use for round 13 onwards, I'm not suggesting this recode as a reversion back to old style pa, it's a suggestion to expand, allowing them to play old rounds of PA, and once they'd coded the old-style engine they could then re-use it whenever they wanted for any other speedgames/tournament etc they chose to, so if the support for playing these old rounds for some fun is there, then I'm sure it would be worthwhile financially also.
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Unread 1 Mar 2005, 15:14   #4
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Re: PA Should Bring Back An Old Round

Round two was super. By far my favourite. Coincedently it was also the round in which I started playing.
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Unread 1 Mar 2005, 17:04   #5
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Re: PA Should Bring Back An Old Round

You could never bring back an old round, if by some miracle a round was coded like round 2 (and it would be a miracle because they have to dig up the stats for EVERYTHING, how the game mechanics worked etc. - and most of those things no longer exist, so it would be guesswork, which is unlikely to be right), the round would still be nothing like round 2. For that you need the same alliances, players, attitudes and politics, and there is no way any of those will be coming back.

It is quite simply impossible to duplicate a PA round. That is one of PA's enduring features; each round is completely unique, and can never be repeated. Every round you go into, you know will be different to the last. It is a good part of PA, and I think it is also integral to what PA is. Anyway, suffice it to say, what you are suggesting is, in my view, 100% impossible.
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Unread 1 Mar 2005, 17:33   #6
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Re: PA Should Bring Back An Old Round

Good god when will people get itinto their head that we cant bring back an old round.

It doesnt even matter if you could bring back the old code, stats and whatever else, it was the huge size of the universe that made PA so enjoyable. That wont ever happen again.
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Unread 1 Mar 2005, 19:47   #7
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Re: PA Should Bring Back An Old Round

jeeez Superfly stop whining
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Unread 1 Mar 2005, 20:28   #8
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Re: PA Should Bring Back An Old Round

I think this has been gone over before several times...
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Unread 2 Mar 2005, 01:33   #9
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Re: PA Should Bring Back An Old Round

Quote:
Originally Posted by JC
Good god when will people get itinto their head that we cant bring back an old round.
Can't or won't?
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Unread 2 Mar 2005, 01:45   #10
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Re: PA Should Bring Back An Old Round

Literally - Cant.

I wish people would understand this.
Im hoping another thread like this wont appear after a few weeks, but odds on that it will.
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Unread 2 Mar 2005, 01:57   #11
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Re: PA Should Bring Back An Old Round

Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeKiller
I've been discussing this with quite alot of people reminissing back to the old days of planetarion etc, how much we loved the old rounds, especially round 2, and I was thinking, why don't PA bring back round2, and by that I mean completely bring it back. Try to get the game dynamics, ship stats, the look and the feel of round to back, but not in place of the current PAX rounds, as either something you can play as well as R13/R14 etc or something they can have ready and put on for in between rounds. However it wouldn't be worth either the effort of the creators coding it, or of us paying for and playing it, if it was your average speedgame or weekend game, it should be a relatively long thing (at least a month). I know i'd be prepared to pay to play it, and I'm sure others would also, perhaps even pay marginally more than we pay currently because of the amount of work required to bring back a working game engine that looked like, felt like, and played like round 2.
Now I'm quite certain this type of thing has been suggested a long time ago, and I'm sure I remember pa team saying they no longer had the old source code, but before you dismiss this, please listen to the number of people who would be prepared to pay for this, especially if everything was like round 2 (including alliances), I'm sure enough people would pay to make it worthwhile PA team putting in the effort, and i for one would be prepared to pay slightly more than usual if they did put in the work required to do this.
Please don't flame this as I'm certain it's been suggested before (i realise this) but considering the return of alot of old players to planetarion, and Planetarions continued goal to attract new ones, wouldn't it be a good way to do that by reminding us of the past and what attracted us so much towards this brilliantly addictive text based browser game!

Your thoughts if you will.
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Unread 2 Mar 2005, 09:20   #12
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Re: PA Should Bring Back An Old Round

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil^
Literally - Cant.

I wish people would understand this.
Im hoping another thread like this wont appear after a few weeks, but odds on that it will.

Hehe i know 2 in less than a week
everyone is crazeh
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Unread 2 Mar 2005, 12:58   #13
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Re: PA Should Bring Back An Old Round

there are several clones out there, based on old pa-rounds. and all free.
(p|anetia, LH, vsn-wars for example).

i don't really see the problem.
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Unread 3 Mar 2005, 10:01   #14
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Re: PA Should Bring Back An Old Round

I only said what I did because I liked r2. I know it is impossible to replicate it. I was just thinking of the good days.
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Unread 3 Mar 2005, 10:02   #15
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Re: PA Should Bring Back An Old Round

I see the forums are still full of pre-puberty teenagers flaming each other lol
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Unread 3 Mar 2005, 11:08   #16
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Re: PA Should Bring Back An Old Round

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kan3
I only said what I did because I liked r2. I know it is impossible to replicate it. I was just thinking of the good days.
me to but if you try one of the wannabes you it just aint the same without the like 60000 multi planets etc....
Nothing ever beats the old days like my grandad use to say.
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Unread 3 Mar 2005, 23:14   #17
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Re: PA Should Bring Back An Old Round

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kan3
I see the forums are still full of pre-puberty teenagers flaming each other lol
like that movie 'kids'
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Unread 4 Mar 2005, 07:01   #18
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Re: PA Should Bring Back An Old Round

;o i tried playing ******** at the start of their new round.. it wasnt for me personally but its got all the features of the early PA rounds.. t1/t2/t3 shooting etc.. some of us actually prefer the new round style.. u may find that concept abit crazy but i like the cozy feel of the universe as it is
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Unread 4 Mar 2005, 15:25   #19
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Re: PA Should Bring Back An Old Round

well tbh he isnt saying he wants to replicate the round now is he, he jus wants the basic game of how it was in round 2, ie the stats and gameplay, not all the same players
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Unread 4 Mar 2005, 21:16   #20
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Re: PA Should Bring Back An Old Round

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alki
well tbh he isnt saying he wants to replicate the round now is he, he jus wants the basic game of how it was in round 2, ie the stats and gameplay, not all the same players
But without the same players, it wouldn't even feel the same, as a lot of it is how it is used.
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Unread 4 Mar 2005, 21:59   #21
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Re: PA Should Bring Back An Old Round

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kan3
I see the forums are still full of pre-puberty teenagers flaming each other lol
well where would we be without them

on the subject....due to pa only ahving a few servers, surely for them, to re run a round for a month u would have to put it in a queue...after tha r13 havoc/speedgames... and that would be a while
and if its gonna be free then would it really be worth spinner and co bothering to re code, think about it logically....
and more to the point... isn't this a bit of slap in the face with a wet fish to all those who have spent so much time developing the game over the recent years... basically what your saying.....is that they've made a shit game
or at least thats how i would interpret it
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Unread 6 Mar 2005, 03:59   #22
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Re: PA Should Bring Back An Old Round

Quote:
Originally Posted by Goafer LX#
well where would we be without them

on the subject....due to pa only ahving a few servers, surely for them, to re run a round for a month u would have to put it in a queue...after tha r13 havoc/speedgames... and that would be a while
and if its gonna be free then would it really be worth spinner and co bothering to re code, think about it logically....
and more to the point... isn't this a bit of slap in the face with a wet fish to all those who have spent so much time developing the game over the recent years... basically what your saying.....is that they've made a shit game
or at least thats how i would interpret it
Well, assuming you've read my post, I was suggesting running it as something to do, either in between rounds, or (partially) alongside one. Also, wanting to play an old round isn't saying what they've made now is shit, PA has always been fun, the old rounds and the new, while the main game naturally has to progress to remain new and interesting which is what it is doing, I don't see the harm in running an old round occassionally (for a fee) because everyone enjoys it. Another thing, I personally think all the clones of the old rounds are rubbish, and most of them I've played seem to have so many bugs in that it's beyond a joke. This is why i think it would be worth a seperate recode (i.e. kept seperate from the r13+ game engine) as although alot of work would be needed, it would be enjoyable and I know alot of people who would pay for it/
I know it's been said that they have no backups of the old rounds, which I'm not disputing, but as a programmer myself (currently still at uni) it seems extremely odd that they wouldn't backup what was essentially their living at the time. If however it's a case of the rights of the old rounds being sold, or the backups being corrupted etc that might make a bit more sense.

To answer the posts like Phil^'s and similar ones.
Let me stress again that I KNOW that extremely similar threads to this have been posted several times before this, however I'm trying to make a point that there are enough people willing to pay to play one of these old rounds, and the free clones simply don't compare (lets be honest) that it would also be financially viable to put in the effort of coding. You'd think after doing planetarion for this long it would be slightly easier for them to code another engine as the basic structure of the code isn't likely to differ that much.
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Unread 6 Mar 2005, 11:20   #23
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Re: PA Should Bring Back An Old Round

Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeKiller
Let me stress again that I KNOW that extremely similar threads to this have been posted several times before this, however I'm trying to make a point that there are enough people willing to pay to play one of these old rounds, and the free clones simply don't compare (lets be honest) that it would also be financially viable to put in the effort of coding.
Agree.. at least I'd be paying for something that was worth the money then
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Unread 6 Mar 2005, 12:05   #24
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Re: PA Should Bring Back An Old Round

it has to be more than a few forums users who want something, in fact it would have to be more people than are willing to pay the current game who would be willing to play the "new" game in order to make such a drastic change worth while
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Unread 6 Mar 2005, 15:53   #25
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Re: PA Should Bring Back An Old Round

As people said, it was the shear numbers and scope of the game that gave it such an appeal. The stats had little to do with this, PA was a first for many and what it offered was new and fresh.

Oh and the fact it was FREE.

None of the stats back then were anything special, if they were, we would still be using them or a slightly changed version. Plus if the game engine was so good, it would never of been lost unless the people who had the code were complete idiots?
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Unread 6 Mar 2005, 18:10   #26
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Re: PA Should Bring Back An Old Round

For once I find myself agreeing with Sethmace; it was the numbers that made old rounds fun much more than the stats and code.
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Unread 8 Mar 2005, 05:57   #27
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Re: PA Should Bring Back An Old Round

I don't see why anyone would want to play with old stats, when PA as a game is so much better now (excluding the dedication and people playing) - the old stats were pretty basic and full of holes open to exploitation.

The current stats are far more cultured, and I believe that should continue. With less numbers nowadays you need those kind of stats to ensure the game is playable.
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Unread 11 Mar 2005, 08:45   #28
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Re: PA Should Bring Back An Old Round

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marv
For this to happen the gam would have to be re coded again. Round 10 was a total recode.

There are no backups or remaining copies of post Round 10.
Sorry, I just HAVE to comment on this, but, "WTF" ??
No backups?
Seems a tad hard to believe.
Every self-respecting software developer makes backups of his little lovechilds.
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Unread 11 Mar 2005, 08:54   #29
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Re: PA Should Bring Back An Old Round

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Originally Posted by Structural Integrity
Sorry, I just HAVE to comment on this, but, "WTF" ??
No backups?
Seems a tad hard to believe.
Every self-respecting software developer makes backups of his little lovechilds.
there may be backups but the code is entirly different, even different languages at some points, also a lot of hte admin facilities are not in the old versions of the game - in short any game using pre rpund 10 code would be hard for us to run and would be full of cheating withotu signifcant changes.

It would be much easier just to change the current combat code than to go back to an old version of the game.
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Unread 11 Mar 2005, 12:13   #30
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Re: PA Should Bring Back An Old Round

Lets keep the old days unblemished in our memories. If we have an old round now we'd probebly see many flaws in it wich would ruin the memories
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Unread 11 Mar 2005, 20:31   #31
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Re: PA Should Bring Back An Old Round

hmmm visability there actually may be a way. iirc spinner released a vry basic code pa deta or something silly quite a long time ago. this is what lh use as a basis and also what p|anetia stole from lh as there basis. it would not be a total recode as you have a basis to go on. also spinner the basics of what is needed are simple as they are already done. i belive you can find old stats around some where maybe scouse has them.

however on the idea. it wont be the same anyway it will wont have player base and will be p2p which is a key factor to the smaller crrent player base.
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Unread 11 Mar 2005, 20:32   #32
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Re: PA Should Bring Back An Old Round

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal
there may be backups but the code is entirly different, even different languages at some points, also a lot of hte admin facilities are not in the old versions of the game - in short any game using pre rpund 10 code would be hard for us to run and would be full of cheating withotu signifcant changes.

It would be much easier just to change the current combat code than to go back to an old version of the game.
wasnt the cheating a main part of playing pa at the time
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Unread 11 Mar 2005, 21:56   #33
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Re: PA Should Bring Back An Old Round

Quote:
Originally Posted by steve
wasnt the cheating a main part of playing pa at the time
ah so what everyone really wants is cheating back then...?
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Unread 11 Mar 2005, 22:00   #34
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Re: PA Should Bring Back An Old Round

I would think running the main game on 'outdated' code is out of the question.

However, having a small server dedicated to fast tick 'throwback' rounds would be fun--much in the same way that-certain-clone-game has a dedicated speedround server.


Edit: if whoever gave me a negative rep for this post would be kind enough to send me a PM and point out how/why they dissaprove, I would appreciate it...I can't for the life of me figure out how (in any concievable way) this is 'bad'. Thanks.
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Unread 12 Mar 2005, 01:44   #35
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Re: PA Should Bring Back An Old Round

PA lost a lot of players when it went p2p and it only built up that massive player base because it was unique... You're not ever going to really get those days back, especially not slotting it in between proper rounds. I suppose the choices are to get used to the smaller universe or buy a rocking chair.

On a slightly seperate note, round 13? I know I haven't been really keeping track properly since I stopped playing in round 8/9, but is that counting from the very beginning or from the weirdly named round 2?
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Unread 12 Mar 2005, 01:49   #36
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Re: PA Should Bring Back An Old Round

Counting from the Beginning, round 1.
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Unread 12 Mar 2005, 01:52   #37
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Re: PA Should Bring Back An Old Round

Wow, only missed four rounds... wonder if it's too late to have another go.
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Unread 12 Mar 2005, 01:55   #38
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Re: PA Should Bring Back An Old Round

I think r13 is the perfect time to have another go.
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Unread 12 Mar 2005, 12:10   #39
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Re: PA Should Bring Back An Old Round

I have played in the last 2 speedgames but before that the last time I played was round 3. I miss it definitely but there is no point IMO to get it back. All my old alliance / galaxy mates are long gone, it just wouldn't be the same.

(still can't believe there is no PDS and you don't have to pay eonium to launch ur ships!!)
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Unread 12 Mar 2005, 20:54   #40
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Re: PA Should Bring Back An Old Round

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Originally Posted by max_vix
I have played in the last 2 speedgames but before that the last time I played was round 3. I miss it definitely but there is no point IMO to get it back. All my old alliance / galaxy mates are long gone, it just wouldn't be the same.
It`s just to find some new Alliance/ gal mates then
As most players here welcomes old players with open arms.
Even tho it doesnt seem like it at all time here on the forum most ppl are nice
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Unread 12 Mar 2005, 21:08   #41
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Re: PA Should Bring Back An Old Round

bleh.. Old rounds..
tbh the most entertaining times I had in PA were the last few SG's sex0ring with Amy LukeyLove and Gr[afk]nd


Quote:
Originally Posted by lokken
I don't see why anyone would want to play with old stats, when PA as a game is so much better now (excluding the dedication and people playing) - the old stats were pretty basic and full of holes open to exploitation.

The current stats are far more cultured, and I believe that should continue. With less numbers nowadays you need those kind of stats to ensure the game is playable.
yeah the gamecode improves every round..
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Unread 12 Mar 2005, 21:19   #42
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Re: PA Should Bring Back An Old Round

Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeKiller
wouldn't it be a good way to do that by reminding us of the past and what attracted us so much towards this brilliantly addictive text based browser game!

Your thoughts if you will.
Its the people that make it fun.. especially in the old days when the gameplay was so simple as hell..
I think the old code won't be satisfiing but just disappointing when you play it again with the same peeps you play PA now with..

I dont think it would live up to your expectations
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Unread 13 Mar 2005, 00:17   #43
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Re: PA Should Bring Back An Old Round

Complex does not necessarily equal good; personally I liked it back when you couldn't tell what sort of tactics someone was likely to use by looking at their race choice.

On the other hand it looks like everything only targets one class now... which just seems weird to me, gone from everything targeting everything, to having three target classes, to two, now one... I fail to see how saying A shoots at B and nothing else is more complex than A shoots B, then C if they run out, then if you're really lucky they might take a pot shot at D.
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Unread 13 Mar 2005, 01:05   #44
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Re: PA Should Bring Back An Old Round

I think you will find the rond 13 stats have a lot more charachter and that there is a lot more choice left to the player about how their fleet ends up - http://pirate.planetarion.com/showthread.php?p=2845767
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Unread 13 Mar 2005, 19:00   #45
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Re: PA Should Bring Back An Old Round

That is what I was looking at; from those stats there seems to be one target per type of craft and a generic "damage" value in the place of the old number and power of guns... I might be reading them wrong of course. It also doesn't mention Xan cloaking, was that removed at some point?
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Unread 13 Mar 2005, 19:09   #46
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Re: PA Should Bring Back An Old Round

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richpur
That is what I was looking at; from those stats there seems to be one target per type of craft and a generic "damage" value in the place of the old number and power of guns... I might be reading them wrong of course. It also doesn't mention Xan cloaking, was that removed at some point?
You're reading them right. Agility, guns, weaponspeed...all gone.

As for Xan "cloaking", it is effectively removed since a fleet without pods no longer shows up as '0' ships, though the new 'military' scan will not reveal what they actually sent.
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Unread 13 Mar 2005, 19:52   #47
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Re: PA Should Bring Back An Old Round

So all ships move and fire with exactly the same accuracy, every bit of firepower put out by a ship will hit something of the sole target class and ignore everything else.

And cloaking gone... As a player who liked using fleets of ghosts/phantoms back before races existed, I can't say I'm pleased about that.

Looks like I'll be joining up as a free to start with; I just hope it actually works better than it looks like it will.
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Unread 13 Mar 2005, 20:14   #48
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Re: PA Should Bring Back An Old Round

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richpur
So all ships move and fire with exactly the same accuracy, every bit of firepower put out by a ship will hit something of the sole target class and ignore everything else.
Yup. Simply Armor vs Damage.

Quote:
And cloaking gone... As a player who liked using fleets of ghosts/phantoms back before races existed, I can't say I'm pleased about that.
I'm not either, but so far my attempts to reintroduce 'proper' cloaking have failed.

Quote:
I just hope it actually works better than it looks like it will.
For the most part, it does.
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