Planetarion Forums

Vaio · 4 Aug 2003, 21:34

The Tory party is calling for screening of all immigrants for infectious diseases

Look here

and as usual a motley bunch of politicians, refugee groups and for some odd reason health workers are suggesting such plans are 'extremist' and 'unworkable' but if figures suggesting that over 50% of all TB cases are from people born overseas surely it's not so much extremist but more preventative to protect the rest of the population.

Discuss,
But try not to fall into the usual 'Blame the smelly darkies' crap please

Vaio

Mirai · 4 Aug 2003, 21:38

Kil whitey.

Dante Hicks · 5 Aug 2003, 08:28

Only a couple of points :

1. They say immigrants should have to pay for tests. What if they can't afford them? I would presume the most desperate people are the ones likely to carry diseases, so I presume they get deported immediately if they can't afford the tests?

2. So they find someone has TB. They then deport them as a result of this, right?

This is fine so long as you're abandoning any pretence of trying to assist asylum seekers, etc.

A prize for honesty for the first UK political party to say "Look, we don't like ******s, but we accept we need some to do the work now all white people are old and pointless. Therefore, we don't anyone tired or needy, we want to cherry pick the best immigrants, thus draining poorer countries of one of their prime resources. Everyone else can **** off or be shot through the lungs."

Phang · 5 Aug 2003, 08:59

Quote:

Originally posted by Vaio
but if figures suggesting that over 50% of all TB cases are from people born overseas surely it's not so much extremist but more preventative to protect the rest of the population.

all islamic extremists are muslims
not all muslims are extremists
but some are, so we should arrest all of them

etc.

Rommel · 5 Aug 2003, 11:18

they should just send them all on the first plane back to wherever they came from

Phang · 5 Aug 2003, 11:29

Quote:

Originally posted by Rommel
they should just send them all on the first plane back to wherever they came from

you should just fk off die and burn in hell.

twat

Rommel · 5 Aug 2003, 11:44

Quote:

Originally posted by Phang
you should just fk off die and burn in hell.

twat

in that case so should most of England, or maybe you should come and say that to the people living in the South East and see how long you last

Vaio · 5 Aug 2003, 11:45

Quote:

Originally posted by Phang
you should just fk off die and burn in hell.

twat

Why ?

He does have a point. Do you advocate allowing everyone who wants to move to the UK free access to live here ?

Vaio

Marilyn Manson · 5 Aug 2003, 14:44

It would help if we were actually given information about the policy, instead of 3/4ths of the report being full of society types saying 'This is a disgrace.'

Marilyn Manson · 5 Aug 2003, 14:46

Quote:

Originally posted by Vaio
Why ?

He does have a point. Do you advocate allowing everyone who wants to move to the UK free access to live here ?

Vaio

Why do you suggest that he believes in one extreme, merely because he attacked it's opposite number?

Vaio · 5 Aug 2003, 15:11

Quote:

Originally posted by Marilyn Manson
Why do you suggest that he believes in one extreme, merely because he attacked it's opposite number?

To stimulate debate

Vaio

Marilyn Manson · 5 Aug 2003, 15:15

Quote:

Originally posted by Rommel
or maybe you should come and say that to the people living in the South East and see how long you last

Do they lynch you if you don't hate black people in Kent, or something?

Dante Hicks · 5 Aug 2003, 15:26

Quote:

Originally posted by Rommel
in that case so should most of England, or maybe you should come and say that to the people living in the South East and see how long you last

I don't really believe the South East is more racist than anywhere else particularly.

Also, last time I checked Peckham, Hackney, Brixton, New Cross, Whitechapel, etc were all in the "south east". Feel free to go there and spout some racist diatribe if you want to get into a "let's see how long you'll last" type debates...

JonnyBGood · 5 Aug 2003, 15:27

"Welcome to Great Britain, the land of freedom, opportunity, liberty, justice and hope.......Now if you could all line up against that wall and pay for these invountary TB tests we're about to give you. After that you can leave, attempt to find some work, get called a ****** and have things hurled at you by idiots who couldn't find a job if their lives depended on it, get blamed for having a job if you get one because you're taking it away from the locals, get blamed for not having a job if don't get one because you're scrounging off the state..........."

"**** this I'm off to back to Liberia."

LHC · 5 Aug 2003, 15:37

Quote:

Originally posted by JonnyBGood
"**** this I'm off to back to Liberia."

SUCCESS!

Marilyn Manson · 5 Aug 2003, 15:39

I wish somebody would just have the backbone to admit what's blindingly obvious - a large section of British society is still very racist.

Whoops. Forgot. the public can't hear the truth when it's self-depreciating. All problems in the world are caused by foreign actors, organisations of state, 'society' or some other featureless item.

Snurx · 5 Aug 2003, 15:54

Your country really has a obligation to help the poor people, i mean, the UK has a great blame (historical) in the decline of the third world. And it does go on still, i mean, you're supporting the ones that tear down all the chances for a happy world, (america) and even supporting them in creating more poverty, more hate, more racism, and more terrorists, so that Bush and company are earning more money.
And don't tell me it's the politicians. Do a old fashioned riot/revolution or something if you're not happy. And if you are, remebere, one day "they" are gonna get nukes too..

But, more on point. The whole thing is actually a good idea, if they did not have to pay for it themselfs, and if they got medical attention if they had any dangerous diseases. No matter if they got sent home or not, if they were really sick, at least give them a few months in hospital first.

JonnyBGood · 5 Aug 2003, 15:57

The US figured out the problem to this. Bomb them all before they reach your own countries. Then it's all clearly their fault for being aggressive and warlike.

Marilyn Manson · 5 Aug 2003, 15:59

Quote:

Originally posted by JonnyBGood
The US figured out the problem to this. Bomb them all before they reach your own countries. Then it's all clearly their fault for being aggressive and warlike.

And then send them to a camp in Cuba. Then execute them once they've been through a tribunal.

win!

JonnyBGood · 5 Aug 2003, 16:00

Quote:

Originally posted by Marilyn Manson
And then send them to a camp in Cuba. Then execute them once they've been through a tribunal.

win!

Skip the tribunal so we don't have to pay extra taxes.

queball · 5 Aug 2003, 16:05

Quote:

Originally posted by Dante Hicks
Only a couple of points :

1. They say immigrants should have to pay for tests. What if they can't afford them? I would presume the most desperate people are the ones likely to carry diseases, so I presume they get deported immediately if they can't afford the tests?

If they've got a job lined up their employer can help them, right? Asylum seekers would get free healthcare of course.

Quote:

2. So they find someone has TB. They then deport them as a result of this, right?

Why would we deport anyone we have a interest or obligation to take in? They go to hospital for a while, get lots of antibiotics, come out healthy.

for the other strand of discussion,
If British people are racist it's more to do with all the heroin-smuggling gun-toting Jamaicans than anything irrational. I'm not racist, I have several Irish friends myself.

Marilyn Manson · 5 Aug 2003, 16:06

Quote:

Originally posted by queball
If British people are racist it's more to do with all the heroin-smuggling gun-toting Jamaicans than anything irrational. I'm not racist, I have several Irish friends myself.

This is a joke, isn't it?

JonnyBGood · 5 Aug 2003, 16:11

Quote:

Originally posted by queball

If British people are racist it's more to do with all the heroin-smuggling gun-toting Jamaicans than anything irrational. I'm not racist, I have several Irish friends myself.

I honestly have no clue anymore when you're trolling heh.

queball · 5 Aug 2003, 16:11

?

I really do have Irish friends.

Oh, and yeah it was a joke, sorry.

JonnyBGood · 5 Aug 2003, 16:13

Quote:

Originally posted by queball
?

I really do have Irish friends.

Can I be one of them?

queball · 5 Aug 2003, 16:15

Quote:

Originally posted by JonnyBGood
Can I be one of them?

Sure, I'll put you in my garden with the others.

JonnyBGood · 5 Aug 2003, 16:16

Quote:

Originally posted by queball
Sure, I'll put you in my garden with the others.

If I don't get to keep my pot of gold I'm going home.

Marilyn Manson · 5 Aug 2003, 16:24

We should screen Jonny.

Nusselt · 5 Aug 2003, 16:24

well firstly its liam fox and i hate him on account of him being a twat and a crap dj, DOCTOR DOCTOR FOOOX die, die now. But all that aside the problem i have is that i still am not aware of just how much of an issue this is, i need the numbers to the percentages, to me it increases the level of paranoia by giving everyone the default opionion that foreigners shouldnt be trusted, that they're dirty diseased etc this in turn just fuels xenophobia.

If there is a genuine health risk to the population from a particularly contagious disease that people are bringing in then fine test them, but theres a shíte load of tourists who fly in and out of britain wouldnt they provide as great if not a greater danger, SARS etc?

if the tories want to lump immigrants and asylum seekers together which would mean testing all immigrants to the UK (would continentals who want naturalisation count?) regardless of who they are then the entire thing is pointless since again the dastardly tourists would fck it up. And even if you want to test only people from the third world, you can still get contagious diseases through from first world countries (again canada and SARS). It seems a bit silly in this age of air travel where one person can infect an entire plane through air recylcing, and that one person can get to any point in the globe in 24 hrs to presume that testing the darkies will have any affect. To me it just seems to increase the hostility.

As to the asylum thing in general and the asylum day bbc thing in particular, surely its a better thing they're economic migrants? these people are doing the shíte jobs for shíte pay and shíte conditions, no reputable company that can it at all help will employ you with a dodgy NI card. The industries that need temp seasonal workforce are the ones that use these people (construction, farming, catering - especially in london) iirc the farming community got the number of work permits they can issue increased as they need the workforce to stay afloat.

If people are getting pissed off that they're coming here, isnt it a good thing that they clean out toilets, live here for a bit, then leave? the darkies go home in the end, whats the problem?

also according to the BBC

Quote:

Just to further confuse things, some economists now believe that many genuine refugees are no longer claiming asylum because they have prior knowledge of the system and don't want to put themselves through it.

Instead, they choose to work illegally in badly-paid unskilled jobs for a few years, put their life back together, and then quietly try to get home.

yes you can say that they're using the NHS etc, but on balance imo, if you're stuck in the middle of a field 10 hrs a day for £4 an hour, you're welcome to use the NHS. Its not like they've tapped the NHS and are bleeding it dry*

And marilyn i agree with you, that other people should just come clean and admit that for all our social progress they are racist. im not racist tough. Ive been on a course

Ive got a certificate in multicultural awareness, theres no way im racist dood, thats other people, i just dont want darkies living next to me

* old people are doing that

Marilyn Manson · 5 Aug 2003, 16:27

If they want to free up the NHS, then they should shoot everyone over 60. Or at least, send them to Haiti.

Vaio · 5 Aug 2003, 16:33

Quote:

Originally posted by Snurx
But, more on point. The whole thing is actually a good idea, if they did not have to pay for it themselfs, and if they got medical attention if they had any dangerous diseases. No matter if they got sent home or not, if they were really sick, at least give them a few months in hospital first.

Our health service can barely cope with its responsibility to british citizens without the added burden of foreign nationals and how long are we supposed to feel guilty for what happened in the past ?

Do I have to apologise to every black guy I know for slavery ? and as for saying sorry to the french for Waterloo ? F'k that

Vaio

Nusselt · 5 Aug 2003, 16:35

Quote:

Originally posted by Vaio
and how long are we supposed to feel guilty for what happened in the past ?

Vaio

whislt it remains in living memory?

JonnyBGood · 5 Aug 2003, 16:38

Quote:

Originally posted by Nusselt
whislt it remains in living memory?

I'm calling in seven hundred years of rape, pillage, murder, barbarism, cruelty, exploitation, war, famine, victimisation, discrimination, religious repression and stolen land.

Now to find me a seven hundred year old........

Marilyn Manson · 5 Aug 2003, 16:38

Quote:

Originally posted by JonnyBGood
Now to find me a seven hundred year old........

Look no further than DM.

Rommel · 5 Aug 2003, 17:30

Quote:

Originally posted by Marilyn Manson
Do they lynch you if you don't hate black people in Kent, or something?

They may do that up north but not here. I've got no problem with black people in general, mainly with Kosovans and Eastern Europe. Some actually did come here to avoid the war that was going on AND i believe that the agreement was that they came here for the war and went back after it'd finished. Did they go back? No. Do they work? Hardly. When the Wetherspoons in your town gets closed because of some Kosovan gang war or something for a week because of the damage you won't like them.

They come here, they get given a house, money, free healthcare everything yet they don't work and still claim that they don't have any money. They walk around in designer clothes, speak no English, yet they're allowed to stay in the country.

Quote:

Originally posted by Dante Hicks
I don't really believe the South East is more racist than anywhere else particularly.

Also, last time I checked Peckham, Hackney, Brixton, New Cross, Whitechapel, etc were all in the "south east". Feel free to go there and spout some racist diatribe if you want to get into a "let's see how long you'll last" type debates...

All London as far as i know too. Brixton is quite an intimidating place to go as a white person, as you're surrounded by black people, or at least i was down the High Street there last week. A lot of them came over when we asked for workers from the Commonwealth to come. That's when most of the Indians/Pakistanis came and set up their corner shops and what not.

I've got no problem with genuine asylum seekers, but to be honest if they are genuine why would they risk their lives to get here? If they're so desperate to avoid persecution why don't they stop in the first EU country that they get to? Because they won't keep them, so they come to soft touch Britain.

Rommel · 5 Aug 2003, 17:45

Remember this in the news earlier this year?

My town ^^ - a 3* hotel, which is by far the best hotel in my town

Dante Hicks · 5 Aug 2003, 18:51

Quote:

Originally posted by Rommel
Brixton is quite an intimidating place to go as a white person, as you're surrounded by black people, or at least i was down the High Street there last week.

It's intimidating for you. As someone who has lived in that general area (big it up to the Lambeth posse, etc) all my life it's not worrying at all. You will get very little trouble in Brixton, especially on the high-street - the worst estates for crime in south London are probably further east in Southwark or parts of Lewisham.

Basically you have racist attitudes. This isn't a slur, so please don't take it as one. Obviously if you feel physically uncomfortable around people who are different from you (which you seem to indicate that you do) then you are logically going to oppose immigration. But then why not be honest, like the BNP (sort of) are. It's irrelevent how hard-working and honest immigrants are, bottom line is we don't want no ****ing paki's here.

Rommel · 5 Aug 2003, 19:26

Quote:

Originally posted by Dante Hicks
It's intimidating for you. As someone who has lived in that general area (big it up to the Lambeth posse, etc) all my life it's not worrying at all. You will get very little trouble in Brixton, especially on the high-street - the worst estates for crime in south London are probably further east in Southwark or parts of Lewisham.

I'm sure if you've been brought up around them like you have then you'll know no different. Closest i've come to that was living in Croydon for 4 years.

When i first moved to where i am now there weren't many immigrants, there has always been the corner shops but they're everywhere and everyone uses them for something or another.

Quote:

Basically you have racist attitudes. This isn't a slur, so please don't take it as one. Obviously if you feel physically uncomfortable around people who are different from you (which you seem to indicate that you do) then you are logically going to oppose immigration. But then why not be honest, like the BNP (sort of) are. It's irrelevent how hard-working and honest immigrants are, bottom line is we don't want no ****ing paki's here.

I wouldn't go so far to say i'm unconfortable surrounded by them - Brixton one being the only white face was a new experience. At my cricket club we've got a few Indians/Pakistanis playing who have been living here long before i was born, who are nice people. Sure, i have racist attitudes but to be honest there aren't many/if any who don't.

Cmdr_Cyrax · 5 Aug 2003, 19:44

If I drop down dead of something brought into the country that coud have been prevented, it'll be cold comfort to know the carrier of such disease was'nt discriminated against.

Just because imigrants aren't the cause of 100% of TB cases in britain doesn't mean we should do nothing about the 50% who are...

Phang · 5 Aug 2003, 21:09

Quote:

Originally posted by Cmdr_Cyrax
Just because imigrants aren't the cause of 100% of TB cases in britain doesn't mean we should do nothing about the 50% who are...

sometimes you say really stupid things.

Dante Hicks · 5 Aug 2003, 21:13

Quote:

Originally posted by Cmdr_Cyrax
Just because imigrants aren't the cause of 100% of TB cases in britain doesn't mean we should do nothing about the 50% who are...

That's great logic there sonny!

Nodrog · 5 Aug 2003, 21:20

This certainly wont lead to an increase in illegal immigrants who have infectious diseases.

Richpur · 5 Aug 2003, 22:47

Reassemble the british empire so there are less foreign places for people to illegally immigrate from.

Cmdr_Cyrax · 5 Aug 2003, 23:09

Arrrrrrgggh.

What i'm saying is people born in the UK would more likely have had the vaccine. The BBC site is saying that the biggest section of people who develop TB are the ones who have lived here for less than 10 years. (50%)

Quote:

Also, the thinking that diseases like TB and Aids have no British origin is deeply flawed. The number of prominent Britons who have died have TB (who never travelled to the subcontinent or had any contact with people from that part of the world) runs into hundreds, if not thousands. Therefore any talk of TB as a disease that occurs elsewhere is prejudiced.
Debanjan Chakrabarti, Indian student in UK

I think I was also partially reffering to this comment in the feedback section.

Stop critisising me, at least i'm trying to discuss the point and not getting myself sidetracked by discussing the definition of racism and how racist we are, as the opponents of this quite sensible suggestion intend.

Dante Hicks · 5 Aug 2003, 23:17

Quote:

Originally posted by Cmdr_Cyrax
What i'm saying is people born in the UK would more likely have had the vaccine. The BBC site is saying that the biggest section of people who develop TB are the ones who have lived here for less than 10 years. (50%)

Yes, but the way you were putting it sounded like 50% of immigrants have TB, etc.

Just giving tests to immigrants is fine. It's quite a sensible precaution (although it would be racistly applied as always since people visiting from Europe or North America would probably be exempt). My wife (white South African) had to present x-rays to get a working visa a few years ago (to show no TB). But the thing which is rising some people's ire is what happens to those who fail. According to the link, the immigrants themselves have to pay for testing, etc (which asylum seekers would need to pay, I presume).

And then there is the idea that those who "fail" will be instantly deported, which doesn't strike me as particularly humanitarian.

Nusselt · 5 Aug 2003, 23:18

well to reiterate, i still dont know what the numbers to those 50% are, its not that im ideologically opposed to screening, its just that there is the issue of whether it is 'worth it',

if all you end up doing is testing everyone for what statistically is a small risk, is it worth the cost/beauracracy/possible increase in prejudice?

And to my mind comparing it to say Ellis island isnt really valid, as the americans didnt have large numbers of tuorists/ 24 hr international travel to deal with. I dont mind a screening programme, id just like it to be justified.

excuse the spelling.

Deepflow · 5 Aug 2003, 23:21

why should you have more of a right to live here and get benefits just because you were born here?

what exactly is intimidating about being round lots of black people?

i think we should ship racist people off to the countries that the asylum seekers come from... that would be funny... kind of an exchange thing.

=D

tony blair... listen to my master plan!

Nusselt · 5 Aug 2003, 23:23

Quote:

Originally posted by Dante Hicks
My wife (white South African)

dante is a clerk.
dante is a communist.
dante is a long haired freak who has fantasies of killing his friends

ergo

she married you for the passport dante. Shes shagging that toccota and fugue fellow behind your back.

Dante Hicks · 5 Aug 2003, 23:24

Quote:

Originally posted by Nusselt
she married you for the passport dante.

Almost certainly.

Quote:

Shes shagging that toccota and fugue fellow behind your back.

:eek:

He's in love with a transexual though.

(don't even think of posting a denial here T&F)

Cmdr_Cyrax · 5 Aug 2003, 23:28

Quote:

Originally posted by Dante Hicks
Yes, but the way you were putting it sounded like 50% of immigrants have TB, etc.

Thats cos it was bloody hot and I wanted to do as little typing as possible. I didn't mean that

Quote:

Originally posted by Dante Hicks
And then there is the idea that those who "fail" will be instantly deported, which doesn't strike me as particularly humanitarian. [/b]

I know that isn't right, but when faced with a choice between deporting a few imagrants, or puting the existing British community at higher risk, there shouldn't be a problem.
If there was a third option...