Fleet slot in tech tree

[Makhil]

would you like to see a new tech branch for an additional fleet slot ?

- research 1: docking slot, you can move your ships from the base to protect them from enemy fire
- research 2: upgrade to ingal travel slot
- research 3: upgrade to incluster travel
- research 4: upgrade to universe travel

[Juffled]

the idea of an extra fleet slot has been discussed before and the the general opinion was that it would be too much of a bonus for the active ppl,

if it was done so that you choose between eta and fleet slot then ok but not both i suppose

[AdmV0rl0n]

Originally Posted by Makhil

would you like to see a new tech branch for an additional fleet slot ?

- research 1: docking slot, you can move your ships from the base to protect them from enemy fire
- research 2: upgrade to ingal travel slot
- research 3: upgrade to incluster travel
- research 4: upgrade to universe travel

The tree could be expanded a great deal. As could the factories.

1. Fleet Radar Upgrade. Allows ships to leave factory airspace.
2. Ship Guidance Upgrade. Allows vessels initial guidance for orbital operations.
3. Galactic Guidance Upgrade. This upgrade increases the computational capabilities of the Ship guidance systems so Galactic Operations can take place.
4. Flight formation interconnect technology. This techology Allows Fighter class vessels to operate in fleet operations and ensures no collisions occur. Increases the number of fighters you can put in a fleet from 5 to unlimited.
5. Flight formation interconnect technology. This techology Allows Corvette class vessels to operate in fleet operations and ensures no collisions occur. Increases the number of Corvettes and Fighters you can put in a fleet from 5 to unlimited.
6. Flight formation interconnect technology. This techology Allows Frigate class vessels to operate in fleet operations and ensures no collisions occur. Increases the number of Frigates, Corvettes, and Fighters you can put in a fleet from 5 to unlimited.
7. Flight formation interconnect technology. This techology Allows Destroyer class vessels to operate in fleet operations and ensures no collisions occur. Increases the number of Destroyers, Frigates, Corvettes, and Fighters you can put in a fleet from 5 to unlimited.
8. Flight formation interconnect technology. This techology Allows Cruiser class vessels to operate in fleet operations and ensures no collisions occur. Increases the number of Cruiser, Destroyer, Frigates, Corvettes, and Fighters you can put in a fleet from 5 to unlimited.
9. Flight formation interconnect technology. This techology Allows Battleship class vessels to operate in fleet operations and ensures no collisions occur. Increases the number of Battleship, Cruiser, Destroyer, Frigates, Corvettes, and Fighters you can put in a fleet from 5 to unlimited.

You could add more layers, so that each upgrade caters for in Gal, In cluster, and in Universe upgrades.

I am not a fan of having tech trees that are simply done, and thats it. I like tech trees that are longer than the game, and that mean players are strategically challenged by their tech trees, and their choices have affects in the actual gameplay.

I would like to see all the technology in the game available to every player, but obviously, as a race, you get your base tech first, and the rest comes later, no doubt via tech tree, stealing technology, or some science tech tree that players might have access to.

[Allfather]

Originally Posted by Juffled

the idea of an extra fleet slot has been discussed before and the the general opinion was that it would be too much of a bonus for the active ppl,

if it was done so that you choose between eta and fleet slot then ok but not both i suppose

So, you dont like this cause it gives active people an edge.
How do you feel about multiple factories then?

[AdmV0rl0n]

Originally Posted by Juffled

the idea of an extra fleet slot has been discussed before and the the general opinion was that it would be too much of a bonus for the active ppl,

if it was done so that you choose between eta and fleet slot then ok but not both i suppose

Well its a two sided thing really. Yes, it means players have more flexibility. On the other hand, it would have knock on effects, more ships out, smaller fleet sizes potentially, more action, trickier strategies.

An in active player would gain an advantage, if the active player sends a smaller fleet his way, only to be busted.

[Heartless]

I dont like that kind of idea. Instead I prefer a flexible system where you have an "unlimited" amount of fleetslots. Basically you could send out a million one ship fleets or something with what I have in mind, it'd work a lot like in real time strategy games, where you do not have a concept of "slots" but simply order your units around as you wish.

[Juffled]

I think the reasons given against it

(and i would like to point out allfather that if you actually read my post you see i dont ever say its a bad idea but the idea has been thrashed about a lot and the general opinion is that it is/was a bad idea, also i am left wandering why you put such an open ended question about more factories which doesnt really effect activity in the slightest anyway in a thread which is nothing to do about factories when there is a perfectly good thread for you to go flame the idea there instead of trying to derail this one)

back on topic, the reasons given i think revolved around

the bigger planets could get bigger, the smaller planets would get smaller,

again as i said i dont think you should get a 5th fleet slot for free, maybe have it at the expense of another area (like we have with dists or finance centres, or now factories, dists and finance centres).

If you want to attack more you in theory get more xp and roids so loosing any bonus you get from having finance centres or say mines.

You cant just have a 5th fleet slot imo

and in reply to heartless, that could be easily abused obviously (imagine the amount of fakes you could do) but would be limited if for instance you had a non linear fuel formula, so for each additional ship you add to the fleet the fuel cost drops slightly for that ship. e.g. total fuel for that fleet = (ship 1 fuel cost) + (ship 2 fuel cost * 0.99) + (ship 3 fuel cost * 0.98) etc but then we get back onto the eonium shortages that were abundant in the early rounds.

[AdmV0rl0n]

Originally Posted by Heartless

I dont like that kind of idea. Instead I prefer a flexible system where you have an "unlimited" amount of fleetslots. Basically you could send out a million one ship fleets or something with what I have in mind, it'd work a lot like in real time strategy games, where you do not have a concept of "slots" but simply order your units around as you wish.

Frankly, I agree. Fleet slots are wholly artificial limitations. They are probably there for various reasons, but generals should be able to deploy their troops how they see fit. How is PA any different.

'Oh, Sir',
'Yes?'
'There are 2909897889 Incoming warships on scope sir'
'Hmmm. How many vessels are at home at this time?'
'I count 2456, sir'
'Tell them to evacuate to the nearest allied planet.'
'I can't sir'
'What do you mean?'
'Well sir, you launched three missions last night and you only have three fleet slots, so, those ships can't move'
'I don't get it, why is that, they are capable of space flight, they have engines, fuel, whats the problem!?'

.....

[Juffled]

its not really a simulator game though is it......

[AdmV0rl0n]

Originally Posted by Juffled

its not really a simulator game though is it......

Its meant to be a wargame, though, is it not.
And war is a diverse, complex thing. Some of you really seem unhappy with that.

[Juffled]

i agree its meant to be a war game but you have to have limits to certain things in a text based turn based game, if it were an rts then fair enough

[Mzyxptlk]

PA is not turn based though. And even if it was, I fail to see how that makes any difference.

The only thing I have against more than 3 (or even unlimited) fleets in the current system, is that it'd make faking a lot more effective, which will hopelessly overpower Xan. This could however easily be solved by finally letting go of the race-based special abilities thing (emp, cloak, steal, etc), and instead basically making each race Etd-like, or even abolishing races altogether.

[AdmV0rl0n]

Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk

PA is not turn based though. And even if it was, I fail to see how that makes any difference.

The only thing I have against more than 3 (or even unlimited) fleets in the current system, is that it'd make faking a lot more effective, which will hopelessly overpower Xan. This could however easily be solved by finally letting go of the race-based special abilities thing (emp, cloak, steal, etc), and instead basically making each race Etd-like, or even abolishing races altogether.

If the above is right, and I'm not saying it is, thats not a reason for eliminating the races. Its a reason for developing new interesting things in tech trees, and beyond that, its merely a balance issue.

The other side of this has to also be said, Xan have the flimsy vessels, if the xan players spread themselves thinly with many fleets, they lose a LOT of what little firepower they might have to begin with.

Whats more scary early in game, a Xan who is hitting you early cos they have their FI tech working, and have three fleets with 1 k each, or 3k split 10 ways?

---

That aside, watching the speedgame being played has been a heap of fun. I can understand why its tweaked against zik in some regard, but seriously, a race that has no Anti Fi until Frig chassis AND has its salvage wrecked at the others side of sale, and thats before covering having the stealer ships actually dying when they steal, I sincerely hope the anti zik moves don't traverse further.

[Juffled]

sorry i didnt mean turn based i meant step based, its not a continuous game anyway

[Mzyxptlk]

Originally Posted by AdmV0rl0n

If the above is right, and I'm not saying it is, thats not a reason for eliminating the races. Its a reason for developing new interesting things in tech trees, and beyond that, its merely a balance issue.

Indeed it isn't. The reason for removing races in favour of another system is that the other system could potentially (depending on the system of course) be more interesting. And if that system would allow removal of fleets as a limiting factor, it could easily be a better system as well. In fact, even if it didn't, the sheer advantage of not needing to balance stats as rigorously as now would make it preferable over the current system.

Originally Posted by AdmV0rl0n

The other side of this has to also be said, Xan have the flimsy vessels, if the xan players spread themselves thinly with many fleets, they lose a LOT of what little firepower they might have to begin with.

Whats more scary early in game, a Xan who is hitting you early cos they have their FI tech working, and have three fleets with 1 k each, or 3k split 10 ways?

I said faking, not splitting.

Originally Posted by Juffled

sorry i didnt mean turn based i meant step based, its not a continuous game anyway

But how does this change anything? After all, RTS's are also step based, the steps are just very small (how long does initiating the smallest ingame action take?). In fact, even in real life, everything is step based. The size of the steps clearly makes no difference.

[AdmV0rl0n]

Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk

Indeed it isn't. The reason for removing races in favour of another system is that the other system could potentially (depending on the system of course) be more interesting. And if that system would allow removal of fleets as a limiting factor, it could easily be a better system as well. In fact, even if it didn't, the sheer advantage of not needing to balance stats as rigorously as now would make it preferable over the current system.

The races merely add interest to the game. The tech tree should do the game. As for the issue of differences between the races, these differences should be there, but solvable over time. In war, sides find new methods of finding advantage, and of nullifying others advantages.

The balance issues should be solvable by the players. It may require time, tech tree developments, and strategy. The current balance in game is warped, and actually boring. And through games, it should be a case of people getting the upper hand, occasionally.

In the case of Xan, its currently handled by scans. When you reach a certain level of scans, Xan loses much of its advantage. And this really should be how the game works.

[Heartless]

Races should only resort to modificators, not necessarily to different ships. It would be cool if fleets could be composed by a tech tree again, but I guess that's just not going to happen ;(

[Shyne]

Great idea - give people just 1 or two fleet slots at first and make them research to get to the full 3. I think this is a really good idea - do you race for CR/BS or 3 attack fleets ?

[furball]

I think this is a terrible idea.

[Makhil]

Originally Posted by Shyne

Great idea - give people just 1 or two fleet slots at first and make them research to get to the full 3. I think this is a really good idea - do you race for CR/BS or 3 attack fleets ?

I was thinking of a 4th slot, but your idea is indeed better...

[SpookyVince]

This is indeed a terrible idea.

Limiting the fleet slots is actually limiting the fun in the game. You get more easily "stuck at base" or feeling useless : "I have your anti-XX but no slot "

3 slots + base is a limit already, nothing smaller please... A research for a 4th slot would be nice.