User Name
Password

Go Back   Planetarion Forums > Planetarion Related Forums > Planetarion Suggestions

Reply
Thread Tools Display Modes
Unread 6 Sep 2006, 15:25   #1
Zoro
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 151
Zoro has a spectacular aura aboutZoro has a spectacular aura aboutZoro has a spectacular aura about
Get rid of Zik!!!

Bin the Zikonian race - it leads to too much cheating AND an obsession with fleet catching which destroys players morale.

Just have the three races and make them balanced
Zoro is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 7 Sep 2006, 19:37   #2
Zoro
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 151
Zoro has a spectacular aura aboutZoro has a spectacular aura aboutZoro has a spectacular aura about
Re: Get rid of Zik!!!

OK Ok
no one seems to like my thread - itīs probably something that has been said many times - but i wanted to make an interesting point

here it is
I played the last round of PA and as usual I tried to get some real life friends and aquiantances to give the game a try. I had been telling one guy about the game for sometime and I had even shown him what it was all about in the previous round. He liked what he saw. Anyway he tried the game and took advice off me along the way. He joined an ally and played what I would call semi active. I think he hovered around the 500th mark for the majority of the mid round.

After about 5 weeks of the round something happened to my planet that made me want to quit the game forever on the spot. I got an attack thru on a big exi planet all his defence was BS and I was attacking with deīs - little did I know that the attack landing on him one wave earlier was an attack fleet consisting of nothing but harpies -2200 of them (no pods). The harpies were supposedly part of a failed fleet catch - but harpies attacking someone with over 4k thiefs just doesnīt wash with me. Anyway this isnīt my point BUT itīs probably a good reason in itself to BIN ZIKS.
My point is this - my friend who I was ecouraging in the game kinda lost a bit of interest when I went into exile and left the game. I spoke to him a week or so after I quit and asked him how his round was going.
He said - he left cos even though he had less than 50 roids people still attacked him and stole all his fleet. He hadīt logged in for a few days and his whole fleet had been taken.
He quit the game never to return. The Zik race leads to bashing of the weak/less active players - the kindof players weīre trying to encourage to the game.

some response would be nice - thanks
Zoro is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 7 Sep 2006, 19:41   #3
Shyne
Flash in the PAN
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Birmingham, Romania
Posts: 554
Shyne has much to be proud ofShyne has much to be proud ofShyne has much to be proud ofShyne has much to be proud ofShyne has much to be proud ofShyne has much to be proud ofShyne has much to be proud ofShyne has much to be proud of
Re: Get rid of Zik!!!

In that case, his fleet could have been destroyed by xans and terrans just as it was stolen by ziks.

You really can't afford to not login for a few days with this game.
Shyne is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 7 Sep 2006, 19:52   #4
Zoro
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 151
Zoro has a spectacular aura aboutZoro has a spectacular aura aboutZoro has a spectacular aura about
Re: Get rid of Zik!!!

At this ponit in the game he had less than 100 roids

he hd no ememies - he wasnīt in a targeted alliance - I can only go by what he told me and that was he was attacked by Zikīs and they stole his fleet.

One of his big gripes with the game was that it wasnīt balanced. He couldnīt really understand after playing for a few weeks why everyone wasnīt ZIK cos of their ability to no lose collect other ships
Zoro is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 7 Sep 2006, 20:25   #5
frostbeule
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 111
frostbeule has a spectacular aura aboutfrostbeule has a spectacular aura aboutfrostbeule has a spectacular aura about
Re: Get rid of Zik!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shyne
You really can't afford to not login for a few days with this game.
Depends on how you play^^
I managed to go on holiday (no login to PA) and not getting inc for one week.
__________________
Dark HC - find us in #darkwarriors
frostbeule is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 7 Sep 2006, 20:33   #6
Wandows
[Vision]
 
Wandows's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 897
Wandows has a reputation beyond reputeWandows has a reputation beyond reputeWandows has a reputation beyond reputeWandows has a reputation beyond reputeWandows has a reputation beyond reputeWandows has a reputation beyond reputeWandows has a reputation beyond reputeWandows has a reputation beyond reputeWandows has a reputation beyond reputeWandows has a reputation beyond reputeWandows has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Get rid of Zik!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shyne
In that case, his fleet could have been destroyed by xans and terrans just as it was stolen by ziks.

You really can't afford to not login for a few days with this game.

This is seriously a stupid reply, it makes quite a big difference for a fleet to be shot down and getting salvage for it to be able to rebuild atleast a part. Where a Zik steals an entire fleet without any form of compensation, literally destroying a planet.

But as ever, Zik itself is not the problem, its the way it has been implemented that in the least is flawed. Steal ships dying would already make a HUGE difference to the way Zik is being played, as has been said since the reintroduction of stealing afaik.

Combine the free stealing with the solid bash limit and you have a perfect envirement for Ziks to bash. Since Ziks have high value anyway, there is no point for them in playing for XP, resulting into them looking for the easy value gains (which is extremely easy to find with the fixed bash limit).

If you add a bash limit that decreases the cap (of roids aswell as ships) when you attack smaller planets, it simply becomes to expensive for big planets to waste their fleets on small planets. You could keep the 40% value bash limit where you get 0% cap (both ships and roids), and introduce a new level of say 75% and above where you get full cap. Between the 70% and 40% value targets the cap %-tage decreases to a point where it simply is a waste of time to attack.

I.E. normally roidcap is 25% and shipcap 100% (all damage done by stealers results in capped ships..). If a attacking planet is 100,000 value he can attack down to 70,000 value for normal cap. As 40,000 value would be the 0% bash, the 100% decreases to 0% in 30,000 value points, some 3,3% per 1,000 value. Thus attacking a 50,000 value planet would mean the actual cap is only 33,3% of what the normal cap would be. In the end resulting in a roidcap of only 8.25% and a effective steal ship damage of only a third of their normal damage. This would probably make it to time consuming for planets to bother with hitting small planets (as there is hardly anything to gain).

To cut it short, Zik should stay, but has to be changed in order to work properly in the current game :-)
__________________
[Vision] in a lost dream, contributing to The 5th Element at present
Wandows is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 7 Sep 2006, 20:40   #7
frostbeule
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 111
frostbeule has a spectacular aura aboutfrostbeule has a spectacular aura aboutfrostbeule has a spectacular aura about
Re: Get rid of Zik!!!

what about introducing a maxcap for ships, too? i cant steal 100% of a Ziks planet but he can steal 100% of my fleet? making there simply the modification to either all caps (in roids and ships) are 100% or all caps are 25% max. The rest of the ships that might have been stolen maybe die and you gain salvage for them
__________________
Dark HC - find us in #darkwarriors
frostbeule is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 7 Sep 2006, 23:35   #8
Gate
;D!
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,810
Gate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like him
Re: Get rid of Zik!!!

I like my branched tech idea.

Or perhaps lessening stealing and maybe splitting it amongst the races so only limited stealing can be achieved?

But the ziks don't like it
__________________
[ND]
Kicked from Ascendancy
Proud to have been a Dark Lord Rising.
Gate is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 8 Sep 2006, 00:01   #9
Timeline
Dreamer in Pit of Hell
 
Timeline's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Derbyshire
Posts: 443
Timeline is just really niceTimeline is just really niceTimeline is just really niceTimeline is just really nice
Re: Get rid of Zik!!!

the problem with the spreading of stealing over all the races was that it was tried in r14 iirc and it wasnt well thought of within the community as a whole..not just the ziks
__________________
Fate is the blind guy who pushes you in front of a bus

random n00b - r3 & 4
MoE - round 12
Rock - round 13, 14, 15, 16
Pragmatik - round 16
ToF - round 16
Subh - round 17
Pa Team - rounds 16, 17, 18, 19
awol ever since
Timeline is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 8 Sep 2006, 00:45   #10
Ultimate Newbie
Commodore
 
Ultimate Newbie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 3,176
Ultimate Newbie is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himUltimate Newbie is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himUltimate Newbie is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himUltimate Newbie is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himUltimate Newbie is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himUltimate Newbie is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himUltimate Newbie is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himUltimate Newbie is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himUltimate Newbie is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himUltimate Newbie is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himUltimate Newbie is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like him
Re: Get rid of Zik!!!

That might have more to do with Caths becoming untouchable by Xans because they somehow stole more Sents than Xans had in their entire fleet.

Perhaps.
__________________
#Strategy ; #Support - Sovereign
--- --- ---
"The Cake is a Lie."
Ultimate Newbie is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 8 Sep 2006, 01:11   #11
Shyne
Flash in the PAN
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Birmingham, Romania
Posts: 554
Shyne has much to be proud ofShyne has much to be proud ofShyne has much to be proud ofShyne has much to be proud ofShyne has much to be proud ofShyne has much to be proud ofShyne has much to be proud ofShyne has much to be proud of
Re: Get rid of Zik!!!

20% salvage hardly helps you rebuild.

I agree that perhaps only Ziks would target him as an 'inactive' to get his ships, but that really is a hazard of the game.

Its not a game you can play one day a week.
Shyne is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 8 Sep 2006, 09:19   #12
Makhil
Registered User
 
Makhil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,663
Makhil is a splendid one to beholdMakhil is a splendid one to beholdMakhil is a splendid one to beholdMakhil is a splendid one to beholdMakhil is a splendid one to beholdMakhil is a splendid one to beholdMakhil is a splendid one to behold
Re: Get rid of Zik!!!

To give stealing ships to each race is just spreading the ability to cheat and bash... There has been good suggestions on how to reduce the zik tactics which i agree kill the game for the smallest players. I hope to see a change for R19... or i'll go zik and bash my way to the top !
__________________
<smith> You're 15 and full of shit.
<Furious_George> no, im 22
Makhil is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 8 Sep 2006, 10:32   #13
Gate
;D!
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,810
Gate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like him
Re: Get rid of Zik!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Timeline
the problem with the spreading of stealing over all the races was that it was tried in r14 iirc and it wasnt well thought of within the community as a whole..not just the ziks
In my experience, r14 stats are largely considered the best and most enjoyable statset of PaX PA (and with good reason IMO).

The main problem with them was the sentinel. If that had been moved to FI, for example, things would have been a lot better!
__________________
[ND]
Kicked from Ascendancy
Proud to have been a Dark Lord Rising.
Gate is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 8 Sep 2006, 16:52   #14
furball
Registered Awesome Person
 
furball's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 5,676
furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: Get rid of Zik!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gate
In my experience, r14 stats are largely considered the best and most enjoyable statset of PaX PA (and with good reason IMO).

The main problem with them was the sentinel. If that had been moved to FI, for example, things would have been a lot better!
I disagree. The round was short enough to ensure that the full problems of stealing never really overwhelmed any race except Cath with their Sentinals. I distinctly remember Terran DE fleets with Xan Lancers being invunerable to the main anti-DE ship, the Fireblade. Likewise Xan were becoming pretty strong, although I don't have a copy of the stats to check what ships did what.
__________________
Finally free!
furball is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 8 Sep 2006, 17:23   #15
K-W
Bored
 
K-W's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: A Persistant Universe
Posts: 1,583
K-W has a reputation beyond reputeK-W has a reputation beyond reputeK-W has a reputation beyond reputeK-W has a reputation beyond reputeK-W has a reputation beyond reputeK-W has a reputation beyond reputeK-W has a reputation beyond reputeK-W has a reputation beyond reputeK-W has a reputation beyond reputeK-W has a reputation beyond reputeK-W has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Get rid of Zik!!!

IMO if there is to be stealing it should be limited and available to all races. As it stands now its pretty much garunteed that zik will be overpowered or underpowered depending on the stats.
__________________
Germania
Fury
Mercury & Solace
Conspiracy Theory, Wrath, 1up, ICD, Eclipse
K-W is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 8 Sep 2006, 17:50   #16
jerome
.
 
jerome's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 3,382
jerome contributes so much and asks for so littlejerome contributes so much and asks for so littlejerome contributes so much and asks for so littlejerome contributes so much and asks for so littlejerome contributes so much and asks for so littlejerome contributes so much and asks for so littlejerome contributes so much and asks for so littlejerome contributes so much and asks for so littlejerome contributes so much and asks for so littlejerome contributes so much and asks for so littlejerome contributes so much and asks for so little
Re: Get rid of Zik!!!

r11 stats were the best if i remember right, r14 had cath as obscenely great, like r12. r11 only needs slight tweaks to be properly great
jerome is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 8 Sep 2006, 22:23   #17
bwtmc
thinking, that's all.
 
bwtmc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 867
bwtmc has a reputation beyond reputebwtmc has a reputation beyond reputebwtmc has a reputation beyond reputebwtmc has a reputation beyond reputebwtmc has a reputation beyond reputebwtmc has a reputation beyond reputebwtmc has a reputation beyond reputebwtmc has a reputation beyond reputebwtmc has a reputation beyond reputebwtmc has a reputation beyond reputebwtmc has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Get rid of Zik!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by furball
I disagree. The round was short enough to ensure that the full problems of stealing never really overwhelmed any race except Cath with their Sentinals. I distinctly remember Terran DE fleets with Xan Lancers being invunerable to the main anti-DE ship, the Fireblade. Likewise Xan were becoming pretty strong, although I don't have a copy of the stats to check what ships did what.
Xan were inept in R14. Defensively the race was pretty good but offensively it was actually painful. While the other races were complemented by the ships they could steal, Xan wasn't viable without spiders. A few Xans did okay, me included, but then you'd expect to do pretty well with any race if you had a big Cathaar pairing with you on every attack.
__________________
[1up], Ascendancy Events Organiser & eXilition HC
bwtmc is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 8 Sep 2006, 22:31   #18
furball
Registered Awesome Person
 
furball's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 5,676
furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: Get rid of Zik!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by bwtmc
Xan were inept in R14. Defensively the race was pretty good but offensively it was actually painful. While the other races were complemented by the ships they could steal, Xan wasn't viable without spiders. A few Xans did okay, me included, but then you'd expect to do pretty well with any race if you had a big Cathaar pairing with you on every attack.
My mistake then. Really we need some people to write round histories for the wiki while they still remember. Having looked through the "my planet" thread, I didn't really do much in Round 14 planet-wise (it was my first round HCing). XP-whored, apparantly.
__________________
Finally free!
furball is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 8 Sep 2006, 23:16   #19
Gate
;D!
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,810
Gate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like him
Re: Get rid of Zik!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by bwtmc
Xan were inept in R14. Defensively the race was pretty good but offensively it was actually painful. While the other races were complemented by the ships they could steal, Xan wasn't viable without spiders. A few Xans did okay, me included, but then you'd expect to do pretty well with any race if you had a big Cathaar pairing with you on every attack.
There were problems, like you and furball have pointed out.

The sentinel was by far the most noticable, but xands could be made or broken by the ability to steal spider (whilst the tzen was bollocks), and the lancer could seriously beef up terrans (and it was easy to justify expenditure on wyvern).

I found xand reasonably easy to play really. I spent most of the round running an alliance which gave me little time to concentrate on my planet, and I spent two weeks in vac, yet I still found it quite easy to cruise into my final ranking. Even with constant Reunion incs, followed by the 1up bashing.

Anyway, I do like the idea of having stealing split up between the races tbh.
__________________
[ND]
Kicked from Ascendancy
Proud to have been a Dark Lord Rising.
Gate is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 8 Sep 2006, 23:36   #20
isildurx
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Noruega
Posts: 2,999
isildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Get rid of Zik!!!

Would be interesting with a round of 'doing something' to the ziks. Kind of boring with all the faming going on, though I will be gutted if I wont be able to steal at all
__________________
"Cry havoc and let slip the dogs of War"
isildurx is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 9 Sep 2006, 00:28   #21
Shyne
Flash in the PAN
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Birmingham, Romania
Posts: 554
Shyne has much to be proud ofShyne has much to be proud ofShyne has much to be proud ofShyne has much to be proud ofShyne has much to be proud ofShyne has much to be proud ofShyne has much to be proud ofShyne has much to be proud of
Re: Get rid of Zik!!!

I really think a decent set of stats should be reused. We've had good ones in r11 and 14 apparently, (I thought 16 was good too, unless im very mistaken).

Everyone always says we have to change them every round but if we get a good stable set I think they can stay the same.
Shyne is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 9 Sep 2006, 00:40   #22
MiX
Who cares?
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 248
MiX has a spectacular aura aboutMiX has a spectacular aura aboutMiX has a spectacular aura about
Re: Get rid of Zik!!!

Any race getting rewarded for noob bashing should be fixed one way or another imo. No matter if they "like it" or not.
MiX is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 9 Sep 2006, 08:06   #23
Lοki
God of Fire and Mischief
 
Lοki's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Eindhoven
Posts: 135
Lοki is a jewel in the roughLοki is a jewel in the roughLοki is a jewel in the rough
Re: Get rid of Zik!!!

Although Zik is the only race in this game that plays truly different than the others; I kind of like this idea. The problem for Ziks is, though, that they cannot gain many ships while attacking big planets. (They are active most of the time.) Also it is very hard to approach someone 1.5 times your value with stealing ships.

In my opinion zik and cat won too often the past rounds. Ter and Xan always stay behind.... why don't we tweak them a bit? (eg. xan not appearing on unit scans, except roid ships, which may be a test for speedgames. Terran... dunno, they don't have to be special. Just raise their stats .)
Lοki is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 9 Sep 2006, 10:26   #24
Timeline
Dreamer in Pit of Hell
 
Timeline's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Derbyshire
Posts: 443
Timeline is just really niceTimeline is just really niceTimeline is just really niceTimeline is just really nice
Re: Get rid of Zik!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Link
In my opinion zik and cat won too often the past rounds. Ter and Xan always stay behind.... why don't we tweak them a bit? (eg. xan not appearing on unit scans, except roid ships, which may be a test for speedgames. Terran... dunno, they don't have to be special. Just raise their stats .)
As far as i understand it, the stats are being played with to give xan the cloaking benefit back and reintroducing the mil scan to be a basic counter to this. Terrans dont need the stats raising, they are already uber strong....just a tad expensive
__________________
Fate is the blind guy who pushes you in front of a bus

random n00b - r3 & 4
MoE - round 12
Rock - round 13, 14, 15, 16
Pragmatik - round 16
ToF - round 16
Subh - round 17
Pa Team - rounds 16, 17, 18, 19
awol ever since
Timeline is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 9 Sep 2006, 11:11   #25
Alki
Drink is Good
 
Alki's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,122
Alki single handedly makes these forums a better placeAlki single handedly makes these forums a better placeAlki single handedly makes these forums a better placeAlki single handedly makes these forums a better placeAlki single handedly makes these forums a better placeAlki single handedly makes these forums a better placeAlki single handedly makes these forums a better placeAlki single handedly makes these forums a better placeAlki single handedly makes these forums a better placeAlki single handedly makes these forums a better placeAlki single handedly makes these forums a better place
Re: Get rid of Zik!!!

i miss the ruling days of xan, there just a pathetic race nowadays :sadface:
__________________
Can we please have a moment of silence...........
Alki is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 9 Sep 2006, 11:18   #26
Ultimate Newbie
Commodore
 
Ultimate Newbie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 3,176
Ultimate Newbie is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himUltimate Newbie is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himUltimate Newbie is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himUltimate Newbie is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himUltimate Newbie is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himUltimate Newbie is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himUltimate Newbie is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himUltimate Newbie is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himUltimate Newbie is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himUltimate Newbie is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himUltimate Newbie is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like him
Re: Get rid of Zik!!!

Xan is good defensively. Its just that their cloak is totally useless when they can only attack with 200k+ ships at ETA 7 - obviously, they're fighters, and rarely will a Xan send less than all the fighters that they have as that will increase their losses significantly.

If Xan had FI or CO pods, however, then the cloaking as it is now would be quite dangerous. Thing is, then its pretty useless researching/building any other class of ship as they would target alot of enemy fleet, etc...

:\
__________________
#Strategy ; #Support - Sovereign
--- --- ---
"The Cake is a Lie."
Ultimate Newbie is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 9 Sep 2006, 13:23   #27
ATRO
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 128
ATRO has a brilliant futureATRO has a brilliant futureATRO has a brilliant futureATRO has a brilliant futureATRO has a brilliant futureATRO has a brilliant futureATRO has a brilliant futureATRO has a brilliant futureATRO has a brilliant futureATRO has a brilliant futureATRO has a brilliant future
Re: Get rid of Zik!!!

Just a little thought i had, rather than having SK(mindless violence) how about two new ship types, one could be a Structure stealer (would have to be a battleship class as the only ship big enough) and maybe also instead of the old cargo ship how about a scientist kidnapping ship(whereby you can steal scientists to steal a planets research) obviously there would have to be limits as this would be almost as bad as SK currently is.

As for races i know it would be a coders nightmare but in my opinion the more races you have the more fun and varied the game would become. At the moment i am working on some ideas for races but im finding it hard to accomodate them into the current stats, if i have any brainwaves i will keep you posted.
ATRO is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 9 Sep 2006, 14:28   #28
Tietäjä
Good Son
 
Tietäjä's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Finland
Posts: 3,991
Tietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better placeTietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better placeTietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better placeTietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better placeTietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better placeTietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better placeTietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better placeTietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better placeTietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better placeTietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better placeTietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better place
Re: Get rid of Zik!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ATRO
Just a little thought i had, rather than having SK(mindless violence) how about two new ship types, one could be a Structure stealer (would have to be a battleship class as the only ship big enough)
Giving a structure stealer as with the requirement of being battleship class would give a definitive advantage to those races that have access to battleship class pods and subsequent attack fleets. Research stealing, well, nifty gadged, would it not be?

The real issue, in my opinion, with zikonian, is that it's never been made a race difficult to play. The only drawback really is the backdoor for free-riders (pod-feeding, whatever you call it, it's how OCR picked 1,2k roids off XceL last round); terrans suck at initiative too. Zikonians are consistently given good ship statistics (they're only about 12-20% weaker than other races usually, as per armor and damage per cost), and if that's not enough, they're given kill-ships that not only match up to but perform better than the kill ships of other races (round 17 assassin, clipper, round 18 cutter, brigand).

Now, if I can claim that even if all their ships were killships (ceteris paribus) on the level on which their killships have usually been (the mentioned assassin - clipper - cutter - brigand level), they'd still be the best race. Now, how about, instead of allowing some halfwit shoutcast the stats in an eXilition community channel (while drowning in flames in the beta channel), and selling the statistics to the highest bidder (auction theory anyone?), someone with a level of insight would make the stats?

Chimera Frigate Fighter Norm 6 102 68 7,250 5,500 5,500 55 37 Terran
Brigand Frigate Fighter Norm 5 52 50 3,600 3,600 4,800 43 41 Zikonian

Christ who came up with this stuff anyways?
__________________
"Oh, wretched race of a day, children of chance and misery, why do ye compel me to say to you what it were most expedient for you not to hear? What is best of all is for ever beyond your reach: not to be born, not to be, to be nothing. The second best for you, however, is soon to die". Silenus, tutor to Dionysos, speaking to King Midas.
Tietäjä is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10 Sep 2006, 03:17   #29
Makhil
Registered User
 
Makhil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,663
Makhil is a splendid one to beholdMakhil is a splendid one to beholdMakhil is a splendid one to beholdMakhil is a splendid one to beholdMakhil is a splendid one to beholdMakhil is a splendid one to beholdMakhil is a splendid one to behold
Re: Get rid of Zik!!!

About ziks, i was thinking... if their stealing technology is derived from the pod stealing capacities, wouldn't it be better that the stolen ships are directly sent back to the home base, the way roids are ?
That would open new strategies for everybody.
- To defend themselves, ziks could try and attack a planet with the def ships he immediately needs.
- A target could send an early fleet catch, threatening to kill the ships that are going to be stolen
- A second 'classic' fleet catch would still be possible on the returning zik fleet
__________________
<smith> You're 15 and full of shit.
<Furious_George> no, im 22
Makhil is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11 Sep 2006, 19:24   #30
Sagnigius
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 4
Sagnigius has a little shameless behaviour in the past
Re: Get rid of Zik!!!

i played Zik this round and it was fun but i have to say as a Zik player that it is an overpowered race. the ships stats need to be revised especially xan and Cathaar, as although some top players where cathaar they still proved to be easy targets. Bring back the old days of the xan where you cant see how many incoming or unit scan them, that would be a far better way to improve them and maybe make it so they do alittle more damage as i think the races should be a bit more balanced.
Sagnigius is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 13 Sep 2006, 14:16   #31
Zoro
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 151
Zoro has a spectacular aura aboutZoro has a spectacular aura aboutZoro has a spectacular aura about
Re: Get rid of Zik!!!

The main flaw in the Ziks make up is their actual attribute. Which is to steal.
We talk about stats balancing. We talk about improving other races. BUT the fact remains that Ziks can steal. They can steal legally, illegally, with loses or without loses, they can steal and roid, they can steal with a fleet catch, STEAL STEAL STEAL. They can be passed ships by a friend whose lost interest in the round. They can be passed ships by a friend in return for a few roids. They can even be passed ships by a multi planet that only exists so that one day it will pass on those 2200 harpies.
Ziks make the multi hunters job a nightmare - if they didn't exist atall the game would probably face less multi/inactive problems.

I have heard a few people say it is increadibly hard to play Ziks - BUT how much skill does it take just to have 2200 harpies land on ur 4400 thiefs without pods - just this sort of thing happens too often and the clever player can desguise this silly attack as some sort of failed fleet catch
Zoro is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 13 Sep 2006, 14:34   #32
ChipZ^
Registered AbUser
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 242
ChipZ^ has a reputation beyond reputeChipZ^ has a reputation beyond reputeChipZ^ has a reputation beyond reputeChipZ^ has a reputation beyond reputeChipZ^ has a reputation beyond reputeChipZ^ has a reputation beyond reputeChipZ^ has a reputation beyond reputeChipZ^ has a reputation beyond reputeChipZ^ has a reputation beyond reputeChipZ^ has a reputation beyond reputeChipZ^ has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Get rid of Zik!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoro
*whine*
The "2200 harpy" steal has already been explained to you, for the love of god shut up about it.

I think that Ziks can be tricky to play if you start at tick 0 and your first few steals dont go so well. Also you tend to have a broad range of stolen ships in your fleet some of which are pretty useless.

If you start late into the round u can farm the exactly the right ships u need off inactives to create a much stronger fleet. I know eX had atleast 3 late starting ziks in the t50 and another in t100, i wonder how many other t100 finishing ziks were also late starters.
__________________
eXilition
ChipZ^ is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 13 Sep 2006, 14:49   #33
Mighteh
Your typical Troll
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: New York City
Posts: 414
Mighteh is infamous around these partsMighteh is infamous around these partsMighteh is infamous around these partsMighteh is infamous around these partsMighteh is infamous around these parts
Re: Get rid of Zik!!!

I agree. Ziks steal due to their skill in launching fleets.

Disguise is their weapon. Yes, i will send just thieves to some planet who has poor anti CO if i can steal those 2200 harpies ! And i have 2 more fleets. say DE and BS that are so much more deadly... and yes, as chipz said, its hard to play when your few first steals came out empty. I missed out on ENTIRE FI and CO this round as my fist few steals that were supposed to cap FI and CO went to shit. So i had NO FI and CO fleets entire round coz of that.


Also note how utterly useless was zik FR fleets this round. Have u actually SEEN how useless those are ? Given, u can trick them into something, just having pods help. but out of every other roiding fleet in game, i think zik FR were the upmost shit out of them all
__________________
[Destiny] awaits, ex-[Omen]
Nothing on the top
but the bucket and the mop
And an illustrated book about birds
See alot up there
But dont be scared
who needs action, when you got words....
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbg
reading this line is explicit acceptance of my superiority over you
Mighteh is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 13 Sep 2006, 14:57   #34
Mighteh
Your typical Troll
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: New York City
Posts: 414
Mighteh is infamous around these partsMighteh is infamous around these partsMighteh is infamous around these partsMighteh is infamous around these partsMighteh is infamous around these parts
Re: Get rid of Zik!!!

anyways.
As to the obvious problem that is Zik Stealing.

Maybe this will work out:

Have ALL zik ships do normal damage. Not, say, Xan firepower, but at least a bit higher then terr. And give them some armor.

Now give them small (5% chance per ship) chance to steal something out of what was killed. (instead of 100% of stuff). So, the slight loss of power and armor compared to other races will still benefit Ziks as some value will be gained back.
__________________
[Destiny] awaits, ex-[Omen]
Nothing on the top
but the bucket and the mop
And an illustrated book about birds
See alot up there
But dont be scared
who needs action, when you got words....
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbg
reading this line is explicit acceptance of my superiority over you
Mighteh is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 13 Sep 2006, 18:41   #35
Appocomaster
PA Team
 
Appocomaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,449
Appocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus would
Re: Get rid of Zik!!!

I never planned (or even coded the possiblity) for a Zik steal ship to do "all" damage.

the major issue is really the ease in which stealing can be used to "cheat" compared to the general difficulty in examining exactly who is and isn't cheating. Making steal cost value nicely gives salvage to those who suffered from stealing, makes stealing more strategic (do I want to steal these ships or keep my stealers? how does it affect my ship layout).

However, it still doesn't eliminate cheating.

The flip side of the coin is that players enjoy stealing, it's fun and exciting! I don't want to lose it. No offense to UN(Sov), but it's far more fun than subvert.

even fiddling the init and so on of subvert, it's just as powerful in its own right as steal.

changing the cap limit for asteroids when hitting "low" won't work - they attack for ships, any roids they get are a bonus. They'll complain more if they don't get ships than roids.
__________________
r8-10 RaH r10.5-12 MISTU
Appocomaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 13 Sep 2006, 21:10   #36
Zoro
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 151
Zoro has a spectacular aura aboutZoro has a spectacular aura aboutZoro has a spectacular aura about
Re: Get rid of Zik!!!

Chipz
This wouldn't be an interesting message board without the odd whine.
Yes - the 2200 harpy thing was explained AND I still don't buy it
BUT
That's not my real point here - just the fact that 2200 harpies (with no pods) can land on someone with over 4000 thiefs - stealing them all is just way TOO powerful - you must agree with that?

I've never played Zik - I'm a Terran player (usually) - I have to fight for every last roid, keeping safe my fleet at all costs. Very rarely (especially last round) do i get a free meal. All my roids come at a cost.
Zik's the way they are drive players from the game. Players like myself and my inexperienced friend (earlier in the thread).
I take an interest in these message boards but I wont be back playing the game til I believe the stats are fairer.
Zoro is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 13 Sep 2006, 21:28   #37
ChipZ^
Registered AbUser
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 242
ChipZ^ has a reputation beyond reputeChipZ^ has a reputation beyond reputeChipZ^ has a reputation beyond reputeChipZ^ has a reputation beyond reputeChipZ^ has a reputation beyond reputeChipZ^ has a reputation beyond reputeChipZ^ has a reputation beyond reputeChipZ^ has a reputation beyond reputeChipZ^ has a reputation beyond reputeChipZ^ has a reputation beyond reputeChipZ^ has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Get rid of Zik!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoro
I've never played Zik - I'm a Terran player (usually) - I have to fight for every last roid, keeping safe my fleet at all costs. Very rarely (especially last round) do i get a free meal. All my roids come at a cost.
If you play as terran then you must realise that u are never guna beable to compete value wise with the ziks. But xp wise is where you can gain your score. A couple of terrans in my galaxy gained huge amounts of score in the last few days by landing on big roidfat ziks with fake fleets and in doing so were capping 1mil + a day.

My fleet consisted ENTIRELY of fi/co. I attacked and landed attacks daily so to fleetcatch me would have been very easy and i would have lost basically everything cause i had hardly any xp. Dav and Greenhills were also in the same boat as me with large fi/co fleets but no-one took the inititive to even attempt to FC us.

Everyone starts with the same options each round, if zik is SOOO overpowered then why dont more people play as them?

They are only overpowered when played by the right people. Then again the right people will always play the race that has the biggest advantage in the round.
__________________
eXilition
ChipZ^ is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 13 Sep 2006, 22:03   #38
Zoro
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 151
Zoro has a spectacular aura aboutZoro has a spectacular aura aboutZoro has a spectacular aura about
Re: Get rid of Zik!!!

I was well aware of the xp potential of terrans for this round. I was about 7th or 8th I think for xp at the time when I quit the round. I would have gained about 4k xp on my attack on ur exil friend had he not collected 2200 harpies the tick before I landed.
Yes Zik's have their weaknesses - but i'm saying the race is flawed because of their ability to gain massive ammounts of ships (by cheating or skill or foolishness of the attacker) for zero loses.
I would bet ur friend had very little de incomming for the rest of the round with a solid base of 2200 harpies just sitting their.
AND my main point here is that Zik can beat up weaker or less active players who maybe trying the game for the first time or just playing for fun.
Zoro is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 13 Sep 2006, 23:02   #39
ChipZ^
Registered AbUser
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 242
ChipZ^ has a reputation beyond reputeChipZ^ has a reputation beyond reputeChipZ^ has a reputation beyond reputeChipZ^ has a reputation beyond reputeChipZ^ has a reputation beyond reputeChipZ^ has a reputation beyond reputeChipZ^ has a reputation beyond reputeChipZ^ has a reputation beyond reputeChipZ^ has a reputation beyond reputeChipZ^ has a reputation beyond reputeChipZ^ has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Get rid of Zik!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoro
I was well aware of the xp potential of terrans for this round. I was about 7th or 8th I think for xp at the time when I quit the round. I would have gained about 4k xp on my attack on ur exil friend had he not collected 2200 harpies the tick before I landed.
So you quit because your attack was fkd by someones luck? -_-

Quote:
Yes Zik's have their weaknesses - but i'm saying the race is flawed because of their ability to gain massive ammounts of ships (by cheating or skill or foolishness of the attacker) for zero loses.
The vast majority of ships are stolen in attack, not defence.

Quote:
I would bet ur friend had very little de incomming for the rest of the round with a solid base of 2200 harpies just sitting their.
2200 harpies wouldnt stop attackers landing on someone his size, though they probably did help towards small pod attacks who were after xp.

Quote:
AND my main point here is that Zik can beat up weaker or less active players who maybe trying the game for the first time or just playing for fun.
One of the problems with this game is that as time goes on its trying to cater more and more for the "noob" players and less for the people that pay for the game time and time again. If you dont login for days at a time then you can EXPECT to lose your fleet to an attacker.
__________________
eXilition
ChipZ^ is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 13 Sep 2006, 23:15   #40
jerome
.
 
jerome's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 3,382
jerome contributes so much and asks for so littlejerome contributes so much and asks for so littlejerome contributes so much and asks for so littlejerome contributes so much and asks for so littlejerome contributes so much and asks for so littlejerome contributes so much and asks for so littlejerome contributes so much and asks for so littlejerome contributes so much and asks for so littlejerome contributes so much and asks for so littlejerome contributes so much and asks for so littlejerome contributes so much and asks for so little
Re: Get rid of Zik!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoro
AND my main point here is that Zik can beat up weaker or less active players who maybe trying the game for the first time or just playing for fun.
as terr and xand can't....?
jerome is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 13 Sep 2006, 23:44   #41
MiX
Who cares?
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 248
MiX has a spectacular aura aboutMiX has a spectacular aura aboutMiX has a spectacular aura about
Re: Get rid of Zik!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by jerome
as terr and xand can't....?
zik actually gets rewarded for it. Cuz you know most of the nubs are too lazy/idle to run. No other race gets rewarded for it and how ever you choose to look at the situation I hope you can agree that getting rewarded for noob bashing is plain wrong?
MiX is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 14 Sep 2006, 07:39   #42
Makhil
Registered User
 
Makhil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,663
Makhil is a splendid one to beholdMakhil is a splendid one to beholdMakhil is a splendid one to beholdMakhil is a splendid one to beholdMakhil is a splendid one to beholdMakhil is a splendid one to beholdMakhil is a splendid one to behold
Re: Get rid of Zik!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChipZ^
They are only overpowered when played by the right people.
I would have said they are overpowered when played by the wrong people (cheaters and bashers).
__________________
<smith> You're 15 and full of shit.
<Furious_George> no, im 22
Makhil is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 14 Sep 2006, 10:19   #43
Kargool
Up The Hatters!
 
Kargool's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Kenilworth Road
Posts: 3,012
Kargool is a pillar of this Internet societyKargool is a pillar of this Internet societyKargool is a pillar of this Internet societyKargool is a pillar of this Internet societyKargool is a pillar of this Internet societyKargool is a pillar of this Internet societyKargool is a pillar of this Internet societyKargool is a pillar of this Internet societyKargool is a pillar of this Internet societyKargool is a pillar of this Internet societyKargool is a pillar of this Internet society
Re: Get rid of Zik!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gate
In my experience, r14 stats are largely considered the best and most enjoyable statset of PaX PA (and with good reason IMO).

The main problem with them was the sentinel. If that had been moved to FI, for example, things would have been a lot better!
I wholeheartedly disagree, if I cba I would dig up some of the threads after that round, but the general consensus about r14 was that it lead to extremly much bashing.
__________________
Planetarion veteran
Kargool is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 14 Sep 2006, 11:41   #44
Zoro
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 151
Zoro has a spectacular aura aboutZoro has a spectacular aura aboutZoro has a spectacular aura about
Re: Get rid of Zik!!!

Underpowered Overpowered
doesn't really matter - there are players who take advantage of the fact that they can be passed ships (by friends or multi). We talk about cheating - but the Zikonian race encourages cheating and bashing.

I think the PA team are scared to get rid of Zik cos there are people out there that prefer to play them. And the last thing the PA team wants is another reason for people to leave the game.
I think Zikonian is the most demoralising of all the races - to have ur ships stolen is quite painful AND whereas the other races keep certain weeknesses for the whole round Zik's have the potential to collect ships to cover all weaknesses

Chipz

I left the round because I suspected cheating for an Exil planet that went unpunished.
I was receiving between 5 and 8 waves per day - this didn't stop me playing - I was enjoying the challenge. I was in the top ten of most roided - I was enoying being top ten at something.
Whether I was very unlucky or there was cheating going on is irrelevant - FACT I left the game because of ZIK. And this is what the whole thread is about. People are leaving because of one of the races.

I wasn't demoralised by all of the incomming, the long hours fighting a better ally with little reward, nor all of the roids lost.
Zoro is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 14 Sep 2006, 14:46   #45
jerome
.
 
jerome's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 3,382
jerome contributes so much and asks for so littlejerome contributes so much and asks for so littlejerome contributes so much and asks for so littlejerome contributes so much and asks for so littlejerome contributes so much and asks for so littlejerome contributes so much and asks for so littlejerome contributes so much and asks for so littlejerome contributes so much and asks for so littlejerome contributes so much and asks for so littlejerome contributes so much and asks for so littlejerome contributes so much and asks for so little
Re: Get rid of Zik!!!

how about these inactive newbs just login once in a while to not get oh so demoralised and quit lol
jerome is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 14 Sep 2006, 15:23   #46
ChipZ^
Registered AbUser
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 242
ChipZ^ has a reputation beyond reputeChipZ^ has a reputation beyond reputeChipZ^ has a reputation beyond reputeChipZ^ has a reputation beyond reputeChipZ^ has a reputation beyond reputeChipZ^ has a reputation beyond reputeChipZ^ has a reputation beyond reputeChipZ^ has a reputation beyond reputeChipZ^ has a reputation beyond reputeChipZ^ has a reputation beyond reputeChipZ^ has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Get rid of Zik!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by jerome
how about these inactive newbs just login once in a while to not get oh so demoralised and quit lol
__________________
eXilition
ChipZ^ is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 14 Sep 2006, 16:00   #47
Appocomaster
PA Team
 
Appocomaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,449
Appocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus would
Re: Get rid of Zik!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoro
I left the round because I suspected cheating for an Exil planet that went unpunished.
I was receiving between 5 and 8 waves per day - this didn't stop me playing - I was enjoying the challenge. I was in the top ten of most roided - I was enoying being top ten at something.
Whether I was very unlucky or there was cheating going on is irrelevant - FACT I left the game because of ZIK. And this is what the whole thread is about. People are leaving because of one of the races.

I wasn't demoralised by all of the incomming, the long hours fighting a better ally with little reward, nor all of the roids lost.
I congratulate you on your spirit, but having investigated the issue at the time and seen evidence - including news scans and jgp scans that were present at the time - there were several fleets that launched at the same time as the harpies, that recalled around eta 4 (or something). You were just unfortunate.

Zik can be quite demoralising - I don't think your example is as valid as many others, as most examples of stealing ruining planets are when planets are attacked and lots of ships are stolen, with no sort of compensation.

If nothing else, Kargool has raised the issue on and off since Round 13/14 - I'm sure he'll be keen to agree to this.


While Zik may be the reason some players leave, it's also the reason that other players stay. I've mentioned issues surrounding it in other threads, as have others. I think it could be better handled, but I'm still not convinced as to the best reason.

The other issue is that we have had only Kloopy who's got the ability to recode the combat engine - which he actually did did in Round 13 - and that is what any sort of limitation to Zikonian requires. He's now part time on his job because of his health, and has been ill now for almost a year. I know it's very much our issue, but we've got very limited coding resources.

This more belongs on the other thread, so I may well copy it there.
I know everyone says they're willing to code and help and so on and so forth, but even being in the PA Team for 18 months or so has shown me that while many are willing to help, they're very passive. Since I've joined, only few are willing to work on their own without a fair amount of guidance or direction. I know this is unfair on others who have joined, and I mean them no criticism - some haven't got the time, and as a whole the PA Team haven't really given much indication sometimes as to areas we'd appreciate help in, apart from the support team. The reason for this, as I see it, is that there's currently a structure existing that manages the game. Having seen someone in IRC channels occasionally, or meeting up with them for drinks once a year, isn't really indicative as to the amount of time and effort they're willing to spend on IRC talking to others and helping to run the game. Therefore, support is usually the "safest" (as well as easiest) way of seeing how people react to joining the structure. Most of the team therefore come through that structure.

The only real exception has been those that have asked to help code. Again I'm partly at fault for their lack of contribution - they usually demand guidance and I'm usually too busy to sit down and sort out what they should do. However, programming takes time.
Firstly, the ideas have to be decided on. This issue has mainly been covered by the game development thread.
Then the ideas have to be converted into code, which has to be checked and sometimes redesigned in hindsite. This generally involves knowledge of at least parts of the rest of the code, and there's over 100 files with, on average, 200-300 lines of code per file of code for Planetarion. While I'm no programmer, that's not exactly learnt easily.

After this, the features have to be tested. On top of this, the person that does it has to read and agree to Jolt's NDA, send it off, wait for Jolt to recieve it (not always the same thing due to the postal service ) and then be organised.

Some coders overlook how much time these things take compared to how much time they feel they're sitting around doing "nothing". It often translates into very little time coding. Having to find things for them to code and how to code it doesn't help.

While I know that more than one person has said that, for example, a combat engine takes "no time" to code (a few days, for example), it's actually surprisingly hard to sit down and find a few days to design and then code such a combat engine. It also involves decisions as which features precisely are present and how are they organised (are we going back to more than 1 gun, weapon speed and agility?) to how damage is allocated across classes, how salvage is allocated, steal ships, asteroids, and so on. It's not a simple issue. This is, as a bottom line, probably why it hasn't been done before now. I know it's not fair on you, and I apoligise as it probably should have been done in the past.

Moving on to Jolt.

Jolt have actually (currently) got quite limited resources, in terms of both money and those at their disposal to code / etc.

Spinner and Fudge were paid on full salaries that (I doubt) were covered by the profit made by the game at the time they were working around R9/10/11 - especially as Round 10 wasn't as successful as expected.
Due to the current power structure of Jolt, I have to admit the organisation for things such as Planetarion could be better ("Jolt" as we think of it is actually only made up of about 5 people, btw). I am looking to personally sort things out and improve the situation with Jolt, but as usual everything takes about 2 years longer than expected.

This post has turned into quite a long one. Sorry
__________________
r8-10 RaH r10.5-12 MISTU
Appocomaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 14 Sep 2006, 16:54   #48
Kargool
Up The Hatters!
 
Kargool's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Kenilworth Road
Posts: 3,012
Kargool is a pillar of this Internet societyKargool is a pillar of this Internet societyKargool is a pillar of this Internet societyKargool is a pillar of this Internet societyKargool is a pillar of this Internet societyKargool is a pillar of this Internet societyKargool is a pillar of this Internet societyKargool is a pillar of this Internet societyKargool is a pillar of this Internet societyKargool is a pillar of this Internet societyKargool is a pillar of this Internet society
Re: Get rid of Zik!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Appocomaster

Zik can be quite demoralising - I don't think your example is as valid as many others, as most examples of stealing ruining planets are when planets are attacked and lots of ships are stolen, with no sort of compensation.

If nothing else, Kargool has raised the issue on and off since Round 13/14 - I'm sure he'll be keen to agree to this.

Keen and keen, not exactly, more like stating the fact. We got a bashlimit so that people wont be hit by people 10x their own value, we got a maxcap limit on roids so you wont be roided senseless. (allthough with a low galaxycount you will always have the risk of being quadrouplebooked) We got salvage for defenders so that if you are unlucky and lose a few ships while being inactive, you have a small amount of resources to rebuild from if you should be unlucky and get a Xan swarm on you.

Then we have ziks.
While I understand the concept of Zik's I dont have to agree with how the concept of zik is being solved in the game. Fleetcatching with ziks gives the zik a luxourious option of stealing a planets entire fleet and leaving the planet crippled without resources to rebuild from. In this way Zik vary from all the other races because Zik's can hit with so devesating force that the planet in quesiton will lose alot from such a position. This is in 80% of the cases only bad for a unallied or a planet in a small alliance, because most of the big alliances manage to muster a decent defence for such a fleetcatch. The small independent dude or the player who is in a small alliance usually gets shafted big time. So there we have it... all those nice rules to avoid planetbashing..... And then some smart person says: Hey, lets build ziks that can steal the enemies ships and leave the planet crippled after losing the resources..

To make an example: I was quite heavy attacked last round when seX decided to pummel Omen. I was down to 57 roids. Another mate of mine was down to 400 roids after getting attacked. He gave up, I didnt. Because he got screwed by a fleetcatch, lost all his ships and became quite jaded with having to restart building a fleet, while I managed to stay away from most of the beating. He went inactive, and wont play again, I picked up the pace and ended top 100.

My point here is. Losing all your roids doesnt mean ANYTHING in this game, but losing all your ships cripples you beyond repair... And you wonder why I keep saying that the current zik solution ruins the game?
__________________
Planetarion veteran
Kargool is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 14 Sep 2006, 17:08   #49
jerome
.
 
jerome's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 3,382
jerome contributes so much and asks for so littlejerome contributes so much and asks for so littlejerome contributes so much and asks for so littlejerome contributes so much and asks for so littlejerome contributes so much and asks for so littlejerome contributes so much and asks for so littlejerome contributes so much and asks for so littlejerome contributes so much and asks for so littlejerome contributes so much and asks for so littlejerome contributes so much and asks for so littlejerome contributes so much and asks for so little
Re: Get rid of Zik!!!

if i ever end up in the army and going to war, i'm going to be sure to make a thread on my enemy country's main internet forum asking them to avoid headshots as that is demoralising.
jerome is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 14 Sep 2006, 17:59   #50
MiX
Who cares?
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 248
MiX has a spectacular aura aboutMiX has a spectacular aura aboutMiX has a spectacular aura about
Re: Get rid of Zik!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by jerome
if i ever end up in the army and going to war, i'm going to be sure to make a thread on my enemy country's main internet forum asking them to avoid headshots as that is demoralising.
prolly against one of those countries where killing women and children earns you a medal.
MiX is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 09:37.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright Đ2002 - 2018