Planetarion Forums - Current State of PA and Jolts involvement

Ad0 · 19 Dec 2003, 13:18

Being a little bored at work has given me the chance to consider PA somewhat and I cannot help but think that Jolt are now in a pretty good situation financially. They have taken a game, bought it for a no doubt bargin price and now have removed any "paid employees" and replaced them with people who seem happy to work for free, while Jolt are claiming revenue for their efforts.

I cannot see why anyone would be happy to see spinner leave, fudge leave, Mr B leave and still want to help jolt make money while they are still being denied access to servers / source code until NDA's are signed. Just one question... you are working or should be working on r11 code do you actually have access to r10's ? are Jolt even providing you with the code ?

Please Mit / Karm why go to all the effort, before it was logical, spinner was trying to keep the game alive, while supporting himself + family, while now Jolt effectivly have ZERO operating costs other than bandwith and earn money from your volenteer efforts.

I guess you feel pride in your job titles "managers" or "team leaders" and must find the work involved in managing your "huge" teams make up for this ? ........ or not...

I dont even know why Im posting this and dont expect reactions other than flames, but heck I just dont get why someone would want to volenteer their own time so jolts pockets can be lined!

MrL_JaKiri · 19 Dec 2003, 13:35

I know Karm has another job, I don't know about Mit.

But if he does, it means we're serveraccessless for most of the day, which is a bit silly.

RealJames · 19 Dec 2003, 13:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri

But if he does, it means we're serveraccessless for most of the day, which is a bit silly.

How is that any different to anything else atm?

Declan · 20 Dec 2003, 15:56

actually... for a long pa lost the bright look...
now sounds like shity n dirty business..
zounds of staff members left..

this EXPENSIVE p2p that keep out of the game.. important comunities ( like ldk ) ...
with an host excuse... and fees..

cmon.. i know somone runinga game.. a pa clone.. actually round 6 clone with 13k brazilian players. It stinks .. due his lack of programing skills.. but nothing that 150 bucks / month cant pay.

PA may have a huge database of players... plus COULD have like 100k players.. and b " THE BEST ONLINE GAME " for months in a row ... I bet jolt an get imortant ads for comanies that actually.. acts arround the wolrd .. to pay for the game.

for me pa history can be briefed like this...

Before jolt:
lack of business skills.....

After jolt:
lack of comunity "heart".

[]s

declan
the brazilian guy

ps: soz bout the english mistakes

Mit · 20 Dec 2003, 17:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ad0

Just one question... you are working or should be working on r11 code do you actually have access to r10's ? are Jolt even providing you with the code ?

Yes, i've now managed to start on something for rnd 11 and no, i don't have access to Round 10's code...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ad0

Please Mit / Karm why go to all the effort, before it was logical, spinner was trying to keep the game alive, while supporting himself + family, while now Jolt effectivly have ZERO operating costs other than bandwith and earn money from your volenteer efforts.

I'm personally doing it, because a) i enjoy coding and enjoy a challenge... and b) i've been "playing" since round 3 (having been FORCED to start by a m8 who no-longer plays) and gradually, since Late Round 7 doing various things for hte game itself, Netgamers PA tools rnd 8, #planetarion op from rnd 6, official coding rnd 9 + 9.5 + 10 (toolkit + passport), I enjoy the game, have done since i started and i personally would like to see it continue so am doing anything i can to help that. I've had my fun from the game, now i'm letting others enjoy it too...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ad0

I guess you feel pride in your job titles "managers" or "team leaders" and must find the work involved in managing your "huge" teams make up for this ? ........ or not...

Its not 'pride' so much, see above, more an enjoyment for the game for me anyway.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ad0

I dont even know why Im posting this and dont expect reactions other than flames, but heck I just dont get why someone would want to volenteer their own time so jolts pockets can be lined!

heh, welcome to the boards, sometimes i think it should be remaned 'flaming central'. heh

King · 20 Dec 2003, 18:34

What a nice post Mit. Maybe you should teach Karm, have like a class and you using whiteboard show him exactly what to do. And when he gets out of hand beat him, but not to the point he likes it.

Karmulian · 20 Dec 2003, 19:24

I was about to post something similar to mit,

but in short why do i do it

I've been here for 4 years, since round1 i've put alot of time into PA, and am not prepared to give up on it

Mit · 20 Dec 2003, 20:03

However, i will add, i do occasionally wonder why myself when all i get is constant moaning on IRC, in email and on the forums. We can't make you ALL happy with EVERY decision. However, and ideas, thoughts, suggestions, comments about the next round, please contact me - forums PM, email ([email protected]) or post on the suggestions forum. i've compiled a list of the 'best bits' from both PA and PAX and have started to code something that i hope the players will like and is what they want from PA. I can only do what i've been informated, and i will say, the majority of players don't have a lot of input unless its to maon... its time to change this uif u want your say... MAKE IT SO!

Declan · 20 Dec 2003, 21:33

Mit... i have to disagree...

we had pa...
we have pax...

pa were cool....
pax aint....

"pay for a m8" was cool
10 euros acct is money leeching.

Fimu · 20 Dec 2003, 21:56

mit, u dont like moans, so make it free.

it sux already, pa is just a faded shadow of its bright past.

anyway, eventually ppl will (mark my words) move for good to pa-like games, such as ********

kind regards,

Fimu

ps: never heard of me b4? i dont care!

JC · 20 Dec 2003, 22:01

Afaik the price has never and still isnt up to PAteam. Jolt decides the price, so you cant blame PAteam for that.

Fimu · 20 Dec 2003, 22:08

yeah, but the team knows better than jolt what is good for the game. It is supposed to them, to tell jolt what could be done to improve things. Not that what they say will change anything, but they have to keep them up.

Mit · 20 Dec 2003, 23:17

Correct, Price isn't up to us... there is nothing we can do about it. the game cannot be run for NOTHING, it costs to host, it costs for servers / bandwidth etc... even the "free" clones, SOMEONE is paying something for them (might only be shared hosting, or 'donated' but at the end of the day, there is always a cost involved).

ParraCida · 21 Dec 2003, 01:35

My god mit, I can't remember the last time I saw someone post such a high bullshit to sense ratio.

If you were to take a random log of #pateam and remove all the nicknames it would take two seconds to identify you Mit. Namely the guy that threatens to quit every 3 seconds while mentioning how shit the users are, not to be confused with Karmulian who is easely identified by the fits of rage and the heavy usage of foul language.

Dave · 21 Dec 2003, 01:42

You should write a book ParraCida.

ParraCida · 21 Dec 2003, 01:47

Way ahead of you, working title: "Raining on your goddamned parade"

Leshy · 21 Dec 2003, 01:53

Change it to "Pissing on your goddamned parade".

Razorback · 21 Dec 2003, 02:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mit

"let me yell some at the last bunch of unhappy paying customers left, surely is their fault and when they are gone, masses of new paying customers will come because we have us and the great game PAX.... wait.... damn :/ !

Its funny to see the responsiblity shifting here, PAX failed, period. Someone who pays for this crap is allowed to tell you his disgust, simply because he paid.
Your title pateam indicates that you should have atleast somekind of influence how the game goes, if you fail to take this responsibility step down and dont merit yourself with an empty title.
You cant complain "we had nothing to do with the downfall so stop complaining" because if thats the truth i fail to see your status with pateam, what is your function if you have none at all ? remove the silly title and join the unhappy crowd, because if you have the title you get the honors AND the responsibility with it.
P.S. since customer support and PR was never a strong side of pa i wont tell you again how much it motivates new and old players to pay when get told to stfu because they are unhappy.

Cant jolt try to appoint atleast someone with abit economical sense and PR/customersupport experience to pa, atleast if the goal is still to make profit and kickoff a new successfull game, instead of letting it slowly rot to death.

P.P.S. i think its funny how you state the high costs of PAX while clones with a bigger playerbase run for free

i dont think we need that many servers for less than 2k PAYING players...

ParraCida · 21 Dec 2003, 02:30

If jolt wants a decent PR manager they can hire me

Heartshunter · 21 Dec 2003, 02:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mit

the majority of players don't have a lot of input unless its to maon...

You mean you can't take any critisism?
This line says it all actually. If you don't praise them, you moan at them.

ParraCida · 21 Dec 2003, 02:42

Oh my god, Mit made heartshunter post, you must have REALLY posted some serious crap to make that happen.

Fimu · 21 Dec 2003, 18:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Razorback

Its funny to see the responsiblity shifting here, PAX failed, period. Someone who pays for this crap is allowed to tell you his disgust, simply because he paid.
Your title pateam indicates that you should have atleast somekind of influence how the game goes, if you fail to take this responsibility step down and dont merit yourself with an empty title.
You cant complain "we had nothing to do with the downfall so stop complaining" because if thats the truth i fail to see your status with pateam, what is your function if you have none at all ? remove the silly title and join the unhappy crowd, because if you have the title you get the honors AND the responsibility with it.
P.S. since customer support and PR was never a strong side of pa i wont tell you again how much it motivates new and old players to pay when get told to stfu because they are unhappy.

Cant jolt try to appoint atleast someone with abit economical sense and PR/customersupport experience to pa, atleast if the goal is still to make profit and kickoff a new successfull game, instead of letting it slowly rot to death.

P.P.S. i think its funny how you state the high costs of PAX while clones with a bigger playerbase run for free

i dont think we need that many servers for less than 2k PAYING players...

Exactly. Maybe its too bad for him to put himself in that position. A team is a team, and if he doesnt care about what really "moves" this game, then -maybe- he shouldnt be there at all.
And yes, all those mentioned costs are redundants.
Its funny, with all those unsatisfied people, they still keep the same policy.
go go go PAX team.

Aryn · 21 Dec 2003, 18:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ad0

I guess you feel pride in your job titles "managers" or "team leaders" and must find the work involved in managing your "huge" teams make up for this ? ........ or not...

or perhaps some of us care more about the game than our 'titles'
i wasn't promoted in this new reorganization, and i'm not the 'yes-man' people seem to think i am. i'm sure mit and karm can agree to that :P
at the end of the day we have to reach an agreement.
i want to see r11, and i want to see it as something better than pax. something that the players truely enjoy. yes this sounds cheesey, but i'm not doing it for the glory, i'm doing this for you guys.

ParraCida · 21 Dec 2003, 18:16

If you didn't get a promotion it's not for a lack of trying anyway aryn, I seem to remember you wanting a multihunter position.

JC · 21 Dec 2003, 18:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by idimmu

aryn is currently running for forum admin against jc

A bit inaccurate with your old news there mate

.

Aryn · 21 Dec 2003, 18:33

and i didn't ask for the admin position, i was nominated for it.
and hten i said 'vote for JC'

yes i had asked for a multihunter position, but i hardly thought that was trying to be powerhungry.

Karmulian · 21 Dec 2003, 20:04

She's right actually she did say "vote JC"

Fimu · 21 Dec 2003, 23:29

what is this post about? :P

Kal · 21 Dec 2003, 23:52

I think we shoudl give the new pa team a chance, and give jolt a chance. round 10 had lots of problems, but there were good things. ALso moaning helps no one - construcitve critiscsm does.

Ad0 · 22 Dec 2003, 09:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by KalVirtus

I think we shoudl give the new pa team a chance, and give jolt a chance. round 10 had lots of problems, but there were good things. ALso moaning helps no one - construcitve critiscsm does.

Didnt JOLT already get a chance the? resulting in... 1) failure to manage a decent ad campaign, 2) departure of creators, 3) formation of a new pa *cough* team. Seriously when will people strart acting like paying customers and holding jolt to account like any other consumer would.

JonnyBGood · 22 Dec 2003, 09:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by ParraCida

If you didn't get a promotion it's not for a lack of trying anyway aryn, I seem to remember you wanting a multihunter position.

Parracida touches himself every time someone takes one of his posts seriously.

Aryn · 23 Dec 2003, 05:19

i feel so dirty

G.K Zhukov · 24 Dec 2003, 17:21

This thread made me laugh

Happy xmas to my Titans friends, I will be spamming your public board when you get it up and running, hehe.

Declan · 25 Dec 2003, 01:53

well again parracida made something useful turn into a big pile of *** ( can we say poo in here? )

Zo0f · 25 Dec 2003, 04:35

If anyone has ever tried to commuicate with PA Team and then Jolt about Planetarion i think you will of realised there is a complete lack of communication between PA Team and Jolt. I doubt that will get better and therefore i doubt PA will move foward much if at all.

Qdeathstar · 25 Dec 2003, 06:16

yes.. parracida really is a b.. but what do you expect.. i thought parracida quit.. why is it still nagging us with negative energy.. O.o

In anycase...

well i was going to quote 1) failure to manage a decent ad campaign, and say "what campaign" but i read it wrong...so now..

I dont think that one round is enough to decide what kind of job jolt is doing... with anything...

Strifeh · 25 Dec 2003, 13:20

I'm guessing Jolt have been contacted many times, by players and PA Team about various issues, I know I've tried and not had a response. I think all we can do is have patience and wait to see what happens, whether PA Team can get through to Jolt..and more importantly I guess...whether Jolt will listen.

Strifeh

jornx · 25 Dec 2003, 23:09

Christmas night and bored to hell, so I decided to visit the PA boards again, and to my astonishment things really changed.
Jolt made Planetarion almost cost free for themselves and some PA team members finally got what they wanted: power.
Everyone else is still flaming the 'creators' or what they are called now and they should, cos from what I've heard, the game is shit and the userbase is even worse then before.

I hope you guys all call it quits and join me in SWG.

Cya all and a merry christmas and a happy new year

MrL_JaKiri · 25 Dec 2003, 23:13

SWG sucks dude. They spend more time putting in new content (and bugs) than removing the bugs they had already.

Tactitus · 25 Dec 2003, 23:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri

SWG sucks dude. They spend more time putting in new content (and bugs) than removing the bugs they had already.

Not so different from PA then. :lol:

NEWSBOT3 · 26 Dec 2003, 00:15

pa puts new content in ?

Eventh · 26 Dec 2003, 00:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zo0f

If anyone has ever tried to commuicate with PA Team and then Jolt about Planetarion i think you will of realised there is a complete lack of communication between PA Team and Jolt. I doubt that will get better and therefore i doubt PA will move foward much if at all.

I tried that, seems Jolt thought that PA team was running pa and there was no problem...
Jolt never replied to my mails though..

Strifeh · 26 Dec 2003, 00:32

Have Jolt replied to anyones emails?

Tomkat · 26 Dec 2003, 01:11

Jolt remind me of the Umbrella Organisation from resident evil..... they don't seem to have anyone controlling them. Just take our money and exist as an entity.
Wooooh.

Conspiracy Theories. Watch out!

Karmulian · 26 Dec 2003, 01:12

Yes

ParraCida · 26 Dec 2003, 02:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qdeathstar

yes.. parracida really is a b.. but what do you expect.. i thought parracida quit.. why is it still nagging us with negative energy.. O.o

Hey I'm sorry that I didn't agree with you in your thread and that I feel that your ideas and thoughts are simplistic, but that's no reason to start hatin' me. Like it or not, I'm part of this community and have been so for the past 3 years.

I do tend to state my opinion rather blunt, but after experienceing just about every aspect of this game I believe that I can provide valuable input towards the current state of events. I have made my opinion on what should happen to get this game going again quite clear, I know that it will simply not happen unless there is a big change from jolt. In the meantime I see no reason why I should not state my opinion on the current state of affairs, I only reflect upon the events that take place, if they were positive you would find that my posts would be positive, if they are negative you would find that my post would magically change towards a more negative tone. Right now, PA is doing worse than ever and I'm not going to sit here and pretend that it isn't.

Qdeathstar · 26 Dec 2003, 05:54

I dont care rather you agree with me or not... thats not why i dont like you.

I dont like you because you seem to have more negative, that constructive critizism.
You dont have to be positve, but your not adding anything worth while, you seem to be a stone... trying to sink whats left of our ship.

Thats it, like it or not.

ParraCida · 26 Dec 2003, 10:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qdeathstar

I dont care rather you agree with me or not... thats not why i dont like you.

I dont like you because you seem to have more negative, that constructive critizism.
You dont have to be positve, but your not adding anything worth while, you seem to be a stone... trying to sink whats left of our ship.

Thats it, like it or not.

Hey well and I think you are a complete moron because you have absolutely zero clue so we're even. Anyway, I know the people who are in charge now and they are utterly incabaple of running this game. Ever since spinner left these people have been more busy trying to get a promotion than doing their actual job. I dislike them, I dislike what they stand for and I will take every opportunity available to point this out. Did you see me post like this when brick was in charge? Trying to sink this ship? Hell no, I'm simply explaining why it is sinking and you don't want to hear it.

hook · 26 Dec 2003, 11:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qdeathstar

I dont care rather you agree with me or not... thats not why i dont like you.

I dont like you because you seem to have more negative, that constructive critizism.
You dont have to be positve, but your not adding anything worth while, you seem to be a stone... trying to sink whats left of our ship.

Thats it, like it or not.

Be it ParraCida's posts have some negative tone over them (which isn't weird really seeing the current state and shape of PA), I do think he's in a better position to judge what it's like 'behind the scenes' than most of us. I've been here since R1 aswell, I know what it's like from the outside, and tbh; if it went downwards as fast behind the scenes aswell, then I salute everyone that left the team.

JonnyBGood · 26 Dec 2003, 12:46

Being as we're all attention whoring right now!

The primary problem with Planetarion is that the Internet changed and PA didn't.

1) People are totally unwilling to pay for a new product online unless they get specific recommendations concerning it. We no longer have the requisite playerbase for this word of mouth advertising. Paid advertising may work, but is less effective and costly.

2) There are free alternatives to Planetarion - **********, ******** etc. They offer the same game that we did when PA was at it's height of popularity, but without the playerbase and the name. Unless we provide the playerbase to bring the game to a new level pay-to-play only rounds are pointless as people can go elsewhere.

3) Originally Planetarion, conceptually, was new and different. This gave it a broad appeal. Now the concept has been tried and all the variations have been played out we have to face the fact that PA can no longer rely on this appeal. We tried to reinvent the game for PAX but it failed as the concept was not original enough and alienated the dedicated players we still had. Therefore we need to retain the few players we have left and bring back the ones we have lost. The question is, how do we do this?

What we can offer now is a reliable game built off tried and trusted methods. The game in itself was not a bad concept, the later tuning was a result of the playerbase shrinking to the size where we needed these changes to prevent the game from overbalancing. Planetarion is a basic predator/prey game. The problem was the number of prey in the game reduced significantly with the advent of a pure pay-to-play system. This led to controls having to be introduced on the "predators". This however only staved off the inevitable decline in the number of predators as they left for other games where they were not restricted in this manner. Effectively these controls saved the game in the short-term, but condemned it long-term.

To survive Planetarion must become basically free. The "predators" will be willing to pay for extras if the game becomes fun. For the game to become fun we have to have the same structure we had originally, ie a large playerbase with a smaller group on top (prey and predators again). Bring the prey and the predators will either return or evolve on their own as they did originally in rounds 1 and 2.

Essentially we need a basic option whereby you can sign up for free and just try the game out. One can see how this has worked by looking at PAX (a far less appealing game, conceptually speaking, than earlier PA). Even with basically no advertising of any sort, people started playing the game. If we brought back the classic formula people would return and the playerbase would grow again. After a sufficient length of time, probably two rounds but minimum one, people might be willing to pay for a round of PA (if we promised close to total reliability no ticker stops, no rollbacks etc and followed through).

In summation, lie to the public and fob them off with speed-games until you can release a free game, be vicious and don't care what everyone else thinks because I'm always ****ing right, make it so shit players get ****ed over and beg, borrow and steal the time needed to build the game up again.