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Unread 22 Jul 2003, 14:08   #1
lokken
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Hello PA Team

First of all, thanks for the free round. I found it mildly entertaining, it passed the time, despite the problem that the lack of players in the universe (thanks to a general lack of advertising and the expense of an account in the past) gave me next to constant incoming.

But never mind, let's get into the real meat of the post.

It's come to my attention that despite your best efforts (which I'm sure everyone is thankful for, Mit has done the best he can with what he has), you've failed to delete enough people who cheat. I've come to realise this from the amount of retarded flaming on Alliance Discussions of late (which has irritated me a great deal along with some others), not to mention my own observations.

Of course, I don't have evidence of this because it's not my job, it's those with the intelligence within the game and also funnily enough, yours to actually delete and detect the people who do cheat quite a bit. Surely that is the point of multi 'hunters' who are probably quite undermanned. Of course you say, you don't have the evidence to give a concrete decision on a planet, but quite honestly that's not good enough.

Even in games like SS (which although not as good and competitive as your game - the temptation to put insulting adjectives before game was large, but I've decided to leave them to everyone's imagination) may be, they seem to have admins who have the tools and the confidence to actually delete people who cheat. Of course there's always room for a bit of leeway, everyone has cheated to an extent and the odd-login share can't really be pinned down, but what can you do?

Of course you can continue with your current ways, and leave a small amount of players (such as myself) simply accepting that the absence of deletions will continue and that we all have to live with it. The rest of the players are quite frankly, not happy bunnies and are dismayed because the creators don't seem to do enough for their satisfaction - some seem honestly upset with the situation and it makes me and little ol' JC cry to see them suffer in such a way.

So I ask you this question dear Spinner and friends:

How the hell do you expect customers (or attract new ones) to pay for round 10 when quite frankly the day to day running of the game is done and executed this inadequately?

Of course anyone is welcome to flame me as a delusional/idiot/rabid monkey as much as they wish. I'm posting this because I'm bored and felt like stirring something to see what could happen (not to mention because of some whim I had on AD, hence the slightly jovial tone to my note). You can post your opinions on this thread if you wish, I doubt PA team will act/listen on anything that is said (although I hope they might!), banking on the fact that most will return to round 10. All I ask is that you keep the posts non-alliance specific.
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Last edited by lokken; 22 Jul 2003 at 16:43.
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Unread 22 Jul 2003, 14:12   #2
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I can only agree and would like to see Spinner and Co's opinion on this -


- which will very probably consist of 'but we will have very advanced anti-cheat tools for the coming round'
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Unread 22 Jul 2003, 14:12   #3
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Join me in the flaming on the betatestnig thread


Though, i agree with you to an extent.

But with the resources p.a crew\team has its not possible to catch\close all the cheaters they get reported.

Just hope they will do better in round 10.
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Unread 22 Jul 2003, 14:41   #4
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Quote:
Originally posted by SilverSmoke
- which will very probably consist of 'but we will have very advanced anti-cheat tools for the coming round'
It's not really an issue of tools, it's an inability to go with a gut instinct and stick to it.

I have a question to the (non-creator) multihunters. How many times have you believed someone to be cheating, but not quite had the proof to do it? Or how many times do you think they've come up with an excuse which means you have to reopen them? Do you feel restricted at all by the amount of evidence required to close someone?
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Unread 22 Jul 2003, 14:58   #5
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A nice little thing that I'm sure would be atleast * a little * appreciated would be that they sent out a " We have investigated the planet you reported in as a cheater and did not find enough evidence that this player has cheated. - Pa Team"

I reported some players this round, and never saw any such mail and was going on not knowing if they even had got the mail or even looked into the case. The players were still there even if good evidence was delivered.

I also like to believe the amount of cheating in r 9.5 was a bit out of the ordinary. Beeing free and such. You're free to call me naive.
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Unread 22 Jul 2003, 15:01   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by Supernova9
It's not really an issue of tools, it's an inability to go with a gut instinct and stick to it.

I have a question to the (non-creator) multihunters. How many times have you believed someone to be cheating, but not quite had the proof to do it? Or how many times do you think they've come up with an excuse which means you have to reopen them? Do you feel restricted at all by the amount of evidence required to close someone?
technicaly im not a multihunter, but i liase with them, and see them working quite a lot, so i'll comment anyway.

Closing people on gut instinct ? You might as well just roll a dice and if its odd close them...

not being able to prove but suspecting yes, this happens a lot. How do you tell if its real or not ?
How do you tell between a real family, and one guy with 4 planets, using the same connection , etc...

That tends to the the main problem.

Certainly, if you have suggestions on how to PROVE cheating or not better, it'd be great to see them, as that has always been a major hurdle.

staff-wise, the multihunting team has been expanded, and if needed im sure it will be expanded more. This round being free of course, is much easier for people to multi etc.
in a round of 15k paid compared to 15k free planets, there are of course going to be much less cheaters via multiing etc, since its costing them something to do it.

ofc, we intend to do better in r10, and you will hopefully see this. I'm personally going to try and at least get acknowledgements to when your reports etc are read, so you know its being worked on etc
i'm not sure whether it will be possible to reply with a decision etc, but i can check on it.
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Unread 22 Jul 2003, 15:12   #7
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sorry to bud in : but on a sidenote how can one apply for becoming a multi-hunter? sorry to go off-topic....
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Unread 22 Jul 2003, 15:20   #8
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sorry to bud in : but on a sidenote how can one apply for becoming a multi-hunter? sorry to go off-topic....
at the moment, im not sure. i shall ask the hunting team later and see
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Unread 22 Jul 2003, 15:21   #9
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What stuff do the SS admins have?

Just a question out of general curiosity.
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Unread 22 Jul 2003, 15:33   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by NEWSBOT3

Closing people on gut instinct ? You might as well just roll a dice and if its odd close them...
I was wrong with that part of my post, i don't mean gut instinct, more of a no-tolerance approach. You break the rules, your planet goes bye-bye. And far less giving them the benefit of the doubt.
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Unread 22 Jul 2003, 15:49   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by SilverSmoke
...
- which will very probably consist of 'but we will have very advanced anti-cheat tools for the coming round'
duh, didn't they have better uber tools "every" round ?
reminds me a bit of detergent adverts, it washes your clothes whiter every time a new "version" comes out (hence it must have been **** 2 years ago, because now its so much improved ...)

i don't think that they got proper tools for it, there is so much coincidence you can find thru bots and investigate that, but heh, thats something pa will never have i think (see those "anti" bot login qs ... ridiculous)
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Unread 22 Jul 2003, 16:04   #12
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ahh cheating in PA, what is there left to say about the subject? It has been rife since R1, and nothing has been done to curb it really. The only thing keeping multiing in check is 100% payed accounts, and that still doesnt solve the login-sharing.

As for the effectiveness of PA multi-hunting, look no further than p0ma's little experiment
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Unread 22 Jul 2003, 16:21   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by KaneED
What stuff do the SS admins have?

Just a question out of general curiosity.
I've seen one jpg of just one page of the SS admin tools.

If I can get the link for it, I'll paste it here.

This is p0ma's thread for general reference, btw
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Unread 22 Jul 2003, 16:23   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by lokken
I've seen one jpg of just one page of the SS admin tools.

If I can get the link for it, I'll paste it here.
please do, it'd be nice to see.

as a side note, if anyone has good ideas/even working systems etc to help detected/stop/prove cheaitng i'd be more than happy to push for them to get implemented here
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Unread 22 Jul 2003, 16:48   #15
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Last time I checked people don't get up at 0300 to launch their fleet in SS or DDos other peoples alliance servers or even had to pay for SS.

A planet in planetarion is so much more worth then a planet in SS, if the PA Team would start deleting planets on gut feelings you'd have a riot on these boards within 2 seconds. In planetarion the multihunters simply cannot afford to take decisions like that, because what they are deciding over is ten times more precious to the people than what the SS admins have to decide over.
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Unread 22 Jul 2003, 16:49   #16
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Can't reveal the link, I asked the admin of SS he told me no.

But anyway it actively hunts down cheaters and flags them up for the cheating skanks they are.
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Unread 22 Jul 2003, 16:57   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by ParraCida
Last time I checked people don't get up at 0300 to launch their fleet in SS or DDos other peoples alliance servers or even had to pay for SS.
Then you are not up to speed. SS server was DDosd itself following the launching of an alliance's fleets in order to prevent them being defended against. This was well orchestrated too... SS has a very high bandwidth uplink.
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Unread 22 Jul 2003, 17:00   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by NEWSBOT3


in a round of 15k paid compared to 15k free planets, there are of course going to be much less cheaters via multiing etc, since its costing them something to do it.
This statement caught my eye, most people who play this game and most pay to play games, expect to get there moneys worth, this leads a lot of people to cheat wether it be by account sharing or having several planets the entire game dynamics of PA isnt designed to be a productive p2p design because it isnt customer friendly, you cant have a purely p2p game where your customers get attacked non stop and lose interrest which is why pa has been dying for a long time, r10 from what ive seen, and what ive seen on the beta test might solve some of this but by solving it, they cut out one of the parts which atracted people to this game and made it prosper, that was the war aspect, the new bits are all good for new people but for those of us who like wars and like to fight, will find the game very dull and stale and thus spinner is going to have to hope he can replace the ever dwindling memberbase with fresh ones or this game will die within 12 months at best.

and on that note, the direction Planetarion is going for r10 has already been running successfully for quite a long time and is free, thus i cannot see a new memberbase flocking to play a game with a bad atmosphere that costs money with a small memberbase, and inept anti cheater system which is very biased towards those in the crew which has a hell of a lot of corruption in it, when there are alternatives with a larger memberbase a better community and when its free.

whats the bets that there will be a round 11? will anyone give me 10:1 ?
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Unread 22 Jul 2003, 18:43   #19
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Re: Hello PA Team

Quote:
Originally posted by lokken
First of all, thanks for the free round. I found it mildly entertaining, it passed the time, despite the problem that the lack of players in the universe (thanks to a general lack of advertising and the expense of an account in the past) gave me next to constant incoming.

But never mind, let's get into the real meat of the post.

It's come to my attention that despite your best efforts (which I'm sure everyone is thankful for, Mit has done the best he can with what he has), you've failed to delete enough people who cheat. I've come to realise this from the amount of retarded flaming on Alliance Discussions of late (which has irritated me a great deal along with some others), not to mention my own observations.

Of course, I don't have evidence of this because it's not my job, it's those with the intelligence within the game and also funnily enough, yours to actually delete and detect the people who do cheat quite a bit. Surely that is the point of multi 'hunters' who are probably quite undermanned. Of course you say, you don't have the evidence to give a concrete decision on a planet, but quite honestly that's not good enough.

Even in games like SS (which although not as good and competitive as your game - the temptation to put insulting adjectives before game was large, but I've decided to leave them to everyone's imagination) may be, they seem to have admins who have the tools and the confidence to actually delete people who cheat. Of course there's always room for a bit of leeway, everyone has cheated to an extent and the odd-login share can't really be pinned down, but what can you do?

Of course you can continue with your current ways, and leave a small amount of players (such as myself) simply accepting that the absence of deletions will continue and that we all have to live with it. The rest of the players are quite frankly, not happy bunnies and are dismayed because the creators don't seem to do enough for their satisfaction - some seem honestly upset with the situation and it makes me and little ol' JC cry to see them suffer in such a way.

So I ask you this question dear Spinner and friends:

How the hell do you expect customers (or attract new ones) to pay for round 10 when quite frankly the day to day running of the game is done and executed this inadequately?

Of course anyone is welcome to flame me as a delusional/idiot/rabid monkey as much as they wish. I'm posting this because I'm bored and felt like stirring something to see what could happen (not to mention because of some whim I had on AD, hence the slightly jovial tone to my note). You can post your opinions on this thread if you wish, I doubt PA team will act/listen on anything that is said (although I hope they might!), banking on the fact that most will return to round 10. All I ask is that you keep the posts non-alliance specific.

I agree with Lokken
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Unread 22 Jul 2003, 18:59   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by ParraCida
A planet in planetarion is so much more worth then a planet in SS,
In a random round?

Also pm me on netgamers later pls, just a few questions for youif you don't mind, will just skew the thread if I post them here.
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Unread 23 Jul 2003, 09:34   #21
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Theres one Major problem with the contents of this whole thread

While you arent being deleted for cheating you are happy to call for deletions on the slighest bit of evidence BUT as soon as you get deleted your immediatly posta thread flaming the multi hunters for deleting you without enough evidence

Reducing cheating in the game is something that isnt just on the Multi Hunters and Creators hands but all of us.
  • Players need to stop stop pulling the multi hunters in two directions by first moaning about lack of deletions and demanding more is done and then moaning when deletions are done
  • Alliances need to stop turning a blind eye to cheating and do more to discourage cheating in their ranks
  • We all need to break down the win at all cost attitude. Wanting to win isnt a bad thing but we shouldnt be willing to cross the line into cheating

If as a community we can just improve each of these slightly (especially the first one) we will make the jobs of the multi hunters much easier and less resrictive and allow them to get to grips with the problem. if we dont the community is just constantly working agaisnt the Multi Hunters which isnt good for any of us
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Unread 23 Jul 2003, 10:28   #22
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In my opinion, they did a good/great job this round. 2/3 of the cases I reported where dealt with quickly and the planets deleted.


This round must have been very difficult for them, as there were so many cheats. With lesser cheats around next round they will have more time to concentrate on catching a greater % of them.


Well done to anyone involved with closing/deletion of accounts.
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Unread 23 Jul 2003, 10:51   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by KaneED
What stuff do the SS admins have?

Just a question out of general curiosity.
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Unread 23 Jul 2003, 10:54   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by wakey
  • Players need to stop stop pulling the multi hunters in two directions by first moaning about lack of deletions and demanding more is done and then moaning when deletions are done
  • Alliances need to stop turning a blind eye to cheating and do more to discourage cheating in their ranks
  • We all need to break down the win at all cost attitude. Wanting to win isnt a bad thing but we shouldnt be willing to cross the line into cheating
agreed

Quote:
Originally posted by Scouse
This round must have been very difficult for them, as there were so many cheats. With lesser cheats around next round they will have more time to concentrate on catching a greater % of them.
agreed

(yeah i do make orginal replies..)
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Unread 23 Jul 2003, 18:37   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by NEWSBOT3


as a side note, if anyone has good ideas/even working systems etc to help detected/stop/prove cheaitng i'd be more than happy to push for them to get implemented here
Get tools that monitor the universe for unusual planet activities. There was a planet in my galaxy that was online 24/7. Such things should not go unnoticed by good tools.

Make it manditory for people regularly using the same computer to play (families, etc.) to give information on family members planets at signup ((example registration questions: "Do you regularly share the computer with other people playing planetarion? If yes with how many? Please enter their first names or planet coordinates). Anyone not answering the question properly and caught loging in to several accounts regularly from his computer gets deleted without option for excuses like "Those are my work coleagues/family/dog. Anyone that answers that he shares the computer with other players is put into the pool of planets that are to be more closely inspected.

Those are just a few ideas i came up with in 5 minutes... if the multihunters used the time between rounds to think a bit more i'm sure they could come up with much better measures.
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Unread 23 Jul 2003, 20:13   #26
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Quote:
Originally posted by Salomo
Those are just a few ideas i came up with in 5 minutes... if the multihunters used the time between rounds to think a bit more i'm sure they could come up with much better measures.
It's not the job of the multihunters to create rules, that's the job of the creators and Jolt, the multihunters merely enforce them.
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Unread 23 Jul 2003, 20:19   #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by Supernova9
It's not the job of the multihunters to create rules, that's the job of the creators and Jolt, the multihunters merely enforce them.
It doesn't matter who makes the rules, just whoever can, should. This post wasn't addressed to the multihunters, I've said they do a fine job with what they have.

Quote:
Get tools that monitor the universe for unusual planet activities. There was a planet in my galaxy that was online 24/7. Such things should not go unnoticed by good tools.
This is something I agree with. Why should cheaters have to be reported? Surely it would be more beneficial to the game as a whole if the tools existed to root out cheats.
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Unread 23 Jul 2003, 20:27   #28
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Quote:
Originally posted by Salomo
Get tools that monitor the universe for unusual planet activities. There was a planet in my galaxy that was online 24/7. Such things should not go unnoticed by good tools.

Make it manditory for people regularly using the same computer to play (families, etc.) to give information on family members planets at signup ((example registration questions: "Do you regularly share the computer with other people playing planetarion? If yes with how many? Please enter their first names or planet coordinates). Anyone not answering the question properly and caught loging in to several accounts regularly from his computer gets deleted without option for excuses like "Those are my work coleagues/family/dog. Anyone that answers that he shares the computer with other players is put into the pool of planets that are to be more closely inspected.

Those are just a few ideas i came up with in 5 minutes... if the multihunters used the time between rounds to think a bit more i'm sure they could come up with much better measures.
well, different people think of different things , but those are excellent suggestions.

I think, this issue needs more discussion, so im going to create a seperate thread for it in a sec.
I shall also poke this post to the attention of Spinner et all
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Unread 23 Jul 2003, 20:39   #29
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Quote:
Originally posted by Supernova9
It's not really an issue of tools, it's an inability to go with a gut instinct and stick to it.

I have a question to the (non-creator) multihunters. How many times have you believed someone to be cheating, but not quite had the proof to do it? Or how many times do you think they've come up with an excuse which means you have to reopen them? Do you feel restricted at all by the amount of evidence required to close someone?
It is hard for us, i have come across a few cases like that, where its been a little 'iffy' to say the least.

As for next round, things are being worked on now, for improved player reporting updates to what is going on, i'm working with another member of PA Team on a new reporting system (hopefully that should improve things a lot).

Round 9.5 has been stupid with the levels of cheating, there is currently 5 hunters, which, with that level of cheating is not enough, we've been worked hard to keep up with the emails coming in, and yes, i admit, i know when i've had a few days away, i skip emails to try to catch up. I know i shouldn't, but 100+ unread emails is insane. When i started the job, there was a large backlog that needed working through. Soemtimes, by the time we've got to reports, the person has wised up and stopped, thus ur email with 'some proof' isn't then enough due to the person stopping. I have done my hardest to keep up with it all, but the i16 weekend really threw me off (about 200 reports when i got back).

I also agree with the points Wakey made. Spot on.
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Unread 23 Jul 2003, 20:40   #30
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Re: Hello PA Team

Quote:
Originally posted by lokken
So I ask you this question dear Spinner and friends:

How the **** do you expect customers (or attract new ones) to pay for round 10 when quite frankly the day to day running of the game is done and executed this inadequately?
Hi Lokken.

Fair question, but the answer is a little self-explaining as well.

1: The tools we have had to work with have been inadequate, no question about it. An old system , with lots of cache-levels, badly maintained over 3 years of card-house building for a system really made for A LOT mroe players, have taken their toll on certain aspects of our systems.

The new round already has tools and evidence collection that are far better than the old ones, and they aint finished yet.

2: The routines for dealing with cheaters etc, were a bit shook apart by the increased number of planets in the free round, and we were understaffed like mad in the beginning.

But even more importantly, you know fairly well what we have had on our hands this round, with more focus on the new round than the old. Yes, it was a risk we took, do we risk one free round, not optimally supported, to give new players the chance to join? And we took this risk, eyes wide open.

You can always discuss wether it was worth it or not afterwards, but what was done is done.

We have learnt from 10 rounds of running this now, that we can do a lot better, and we have learnt how to do it. Now, its time to put our money where our mouth is, and show you, in PaX, that we can actually do better.

We dont ask for your trust, we only ask that you wait and see for yourself. We are better equipped now, both with searching tools, and evidence logging. And we will make sure the rules of the game are carefully examined and altered where needed.

Kind regards
A slightly busy Spinner
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Unread 23 Jul 2003, 20:43   #31
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I can't remember one round that we didn't heard what you just said spinner

The new round already has tools and evidence collection that are far better than the old ones, and they aint finished yet.

Sigh... silversmoke, i'm gonna kiss your feet :O
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Quote:
Originally posted by Zeus
If you want to play a game which allows cheats go right ahead and find that game, as Planetarion expects all its players to abide by the rules of the game.

Democracy means to elect it's dictator, it's the game of democracy, all leaders does the same ****, there's no more freedom in a democracy
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Unread 24 Jul 2003, 02:57   #32
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Quote:
Originally posted by Som1

I can't remember one round that we didn't heard what you just said spinner

The new round already has tools and evidence collection that are far better than the old ones, and they aint finished yet.

Sigh... silversmoke, i'm gonna kiss your feet :O
Tell you what, since the old tools havent been updated for quite a number of rounds.....
You either have a very imaginative memory, or...
Welcome to Planetarion! (-:
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Unread 24 Jul 2003, 03:21   #33
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for my game (not even completed yet fs, nor will it be in comp with PA) i have designed a system which simply holds accounts automatically in limbo over dodgy things, but because of the aspect of the game, cheating isnt really a possibility, even if you have more than one account they cant "help" each other. but this is a totally different ball game
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Unread 24 Jul 2003, 07:48   #34
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Quote:
Originally posted by NEWSBOT3
well, different people think of different things , but those are excellent suggestions.
I agree on that but let me ask one thing:

When you are logged on to pa and dont log out again, how long will it "show" that you are online ??

Cause if I recall correctly it used to be 2 hrs. And if thats a fact I am "online" almost 24/7...

I logon 06:00 in the morning and stay online all day and night til foreaxmple 24:00 when I go to bed. I dont log off so it will seem that I am logged on till 02:00. I get up again at 03:45 to launch and stay up till after tick. And when the 2 hrs are used up again its 06:00 so time to logon again.

If this is correct I am only "offline" for about 2 hrs...
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Unread 24 Jul 2003, 08:21   #35
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Quote:
Originally posted by Spinner
Tell you what, since the old tools havent been updated for quite a number of rounds.....
You either have a very imaginative memory, or...
Maybe if you deliver on your promises this time you can avoid these responses from now on. As it is though, your track record in the past isn't exactly flawless, so people tend to get slightly cynical.
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Unread 24 Jul 2003, 09:03   #36
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Re: Re: Hello PA Team

Quote:
Originally posted by Spinner
Hi
Well thank you for a reply.

I'd just like to see the game admin go AFTER cheats rather than relying heavily on people reporting them, as clearly those reports are only the tip of the iceberg.

Cheers,

Lokken
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Unread 24 Jul 2003, 10:02   #37
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Re: Re: Re: Hello PA Team

Quote:
Originally posted by lokken
Well thank you for a reply.

I'd just like to see the game admin go AFTER cheats rather than relying heavily on people reporting them, as clearly those reports are only the tip of the iceberg.

Cheers,

Lokken
They have enough to do atm with just the planets who have been reported, so they cant go after other people as of yet. Hopefully R10 will speed things up for them.
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Unread 1 Aug 2003, 02:00   #38
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Quote:
Originally posted by Scouse
In my opinion, they did a good/great job this round. 2/3 of the cases I reported where dealt with quickly and the planets deleted.


This round must have been very difficult for them, as there were so many cheats. With lesser cheats around next round they will have more time to concentrate on catching a greater % of them.


Well done to anyone involved with closing/deletion of accounts.
http://pirate.planetarion.com/showth...hreadid=167789

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Unread 1 Aug 2003, 11:05   #39
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Quote:
Originally posted by wakey

  • Players need to stop stop pulling the multi hunters in two directions by first moaning about lack of deletions and demanding more is done and then moaning when deletions are done
  • Alliances need to stop turning a blind eye to cheating and do more to discourage cheating in their ranks
  • We all need to break down the win at all cost attitude. Wanting to win isnt a bad thing but we shouldnt be willing to cross the line into cheating
Totall agree with that. People tend to turn a blind eye to cheating as long as it is aiding them.

Quote:
Originally posted by lokken

some seem honestly upset with the situation and it makes me and little ol' JC cry to see them suffer in such a way.
I quite often go to bed in tears .
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Unread 1 Aug 2003, 12:40   #40
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Quote:
Originally posted by JC
I quite often go to bed in tears .
You sold him to the Chelsea filth, you shall pay for your crimes.
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Unread 1 Aug 2003, 12:54   #41
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Quote:
Originally posted by lokken
You sold him to the Chelsea filth, you shall pay for your crimes.
Buy out clause, we had no choice .

*gutted*
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Unread 1 Aug 2003, 13:02   #42
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Re: Re: Hello PA Team

Quote:
Originally posted by Spinner
Hi Lokken.

Fair question, but the answer is a little self-explaining as well.

1: The tools we have had to work with have been inadequate, no question about it. An old system , with lots of cache-levels, badly maintained over 3 years of card-house building for a system really made for A LOT mroe players, have taken their toll on certain aspects of our systems.

The new round already has tools and evidence collection that are far better than the old ones, and they aint finished yet.

2: The routines for dealing with cheaters etc, were a bit shook apart by the increased number of planets in the free round, and we were understaffed like mad in the beginning.

But even more importantly, you know fairly well what we have had on our hands this round, with more focus on the new round than the old. Yes, it was a risk we took, do we risk one free round, not optimally supported, to give new players the chance to join? And we took this risk, eyes wide open.

You can always discuss wether it was worth it or not afterwards, but what was done is done.

We have learnt from 10 rounds of running this now, that we can do a lot better, and we have learnt how to do it. Now, its time to put our money where our mouth is, and show you, in PaX, that we can actually do better.

We dont ask for your trust, we only ask that you wait and see for yourself. We are better equipped now, both with searching tools, and evidence logging. And we will make sure the rules of the game are carefully examined and altered where needed.

Kind regards
A slightly busy Spinner
Every round the same rubbish and its always "some-one elses fault" or "we have great new tools" or simply a (: . Yes we know you are slightly busy with all this l33t testing etc but every round has had its l33 ttesting and you did what you wanted anyway and "tweaked" things.


Multi-hunting is over-rated and dead easy. It is easy to see the cheats and tbh you dont need all these reports to catch them. A suitable report from one of your mates gets some-one deleted and having once been deleted and seen the process it quite frankly sucks. I believe that rather than blaming everything else you should look at the one common thread in PA becoming rubbish... yes its spinner. He implemented all the pathetic changes in the game that brought it from the best online game to something that has minimal interest and one huge ego running it.

Sure the game is dead.... its sad to see an old friend die like PA has but we all move on... maybe its time spinner moved on and Jolt got some-one with an ounce of honesty to run pa for a change and to stop blaming some coding or something else for the games inadequacies. These very same faults have been mentioned for years and unfortunately the one common thread is spinner. Admiral of the Titanic is what he should be called but I bet he pushes some kid out of the lifeboat so he gets saved
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Unread 1 Aug 2003, 13:06   #43
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Fred, your whining posts never become boring. No matter how often they come and how predictable they are, they just don't ever get old or anything. It's constantly like reading something entirely new and fresh! How do you manage to do that, each and every single time you post?


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Unread 1 Aug 2003, 19:12   #44
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Quote:
Originally posted by JC
Buy out clause, we had no choice .

*gutted*
He's no Matty Taylor anyways
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Unread 1 Aug 2003, 19:59   #45
hAl
ensign forever
 
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hAl is infamous around these partshAl is infamous around these partshAl is infamous around these partshAl is infamous around these partshAl is infamous around these partshAl is infamous around these parts
Quote:
Originally posted by NEWSBOT3
please do, it'd be nice to see.

as a side note, if anyone has good ideas/even working systems etc to help detected/stop/prove cheaitng i'd be more than happy to push for them to get implemented here
A main problem is that the detection of cheating is report driven. Multihunters get a report and investigate. That is fairly useles. You need to detect most cheaters without reports. This is well possible and in reach of multihunters.

There are many small tell tale signs to recognize cheating planets. Those sign might not guarantee that someone is cheating but they give indications that a planet might be cheating. Those signs can be tracked by tracking programs that should be part of multihunting tools. What you should get is a list of suspect planets and their actions.

Then investigate the planets being most suspect even without them being reported and close and delete them if needed.

Also publish the deletions !!!

hAl
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Unread 4 Aug 2003, 05:53   #46
Breed
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Quote:
Originally posted by Spinner
Tell you what, since the old tools havent been updated for quite a number of rounds.....
You either have a very imaginative memory, or...
Welcome to Planetarion! (-:

Wow Spinner! You still here man?

I thought you were going to the outer Mongolian fields for some peace and quiet (lemme guess you were discovered by lokken who flew off after you to discuss new and improved techniques for multihunting).

So its better in R10?
Shouldnt you go out and celebrate this on some shady pub downtown where we can hang out with the lesser brains and get Fudge out the door 'cs the damn doorman gets upset after only 30 tequilas?

I have to move my things to the new appartment (after fixing the new floor and doing the 3rd layer of paint in the livingroom, don't you hate moving?) but lets consider a pint sometimes in the end of next week or something


Lokken? You still bitching the forums?
Don't you know that Spinner never reads these forums!
There is no "Spinner", thats Fudge's alter ego for acting like a clown without anyone dissing him about it afterwards.
(hush! don't tell)
(nice handywork in stirring up some action here Lokken)



Chriso

oh.. "ooooomph!" (for those of us that remember R1)
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Unread 4 Aug 2003, 10:33   #47
Golin
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Sad but true this thread.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dace
I LIKE PAUL2.
HE IS MY FRIEND.
HE IS THE BEST FRIEND ANYBODY COULD WISH FOR!
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Unread 4 Aug 2003, 12:56   #48
Fifth_teletubbie
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Re: Re: Hello PA Team

Quote:
Originally posted by Spinner

We are better equipped now, both with searching tools, and evidence logging. And we will make sure the rules of the game are carefully examined and altered where needed.

Spinner,

Will PaX have the things we all know will actually significantly reduce cheating?

* one account per credit card
* no free planets at all. Not limited, not starting later, nothing.

This would all but get rid of multi's, as not many people have access to multiple credit cards under different names. And those that do will have 2 perhaps 3, not a dozen, and would need to shell out for every account.

Additionally, you could implement a system where once every so many logons (bit random) you would need to click a confirmation link in an email sent to the registered address. Would be another barrier for login sharers, as they'd need to share email-logins as well.

And I assume your vaunted new tools already include IP-matching to show a single IP accessing multiple accounts in a period of time?
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Unread 4 Aug 2003, 13:06   #49
ParraCida
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Re: Re: Re: Hello PA Team

Quote:
Originally posted by Fifth_teletubbie
Spinner,

Will PaX have the things we all know will actually significantly reduce cheating?

* one account per credit card
* no free planets at all. Not limited, not starting later, nothing.
I can't comment on the one account per credit card, but as far as I know there are no plans regarding such a thing. Mainly I'd say that is because people have a tendency to pay for their friends who can't pay for themselves or just pay for them just so they can play. There are a number of valid reasons for someone to purchase multiple accounts that have nothing to do with cheating. But again, I'm not sure about this.

There will be free planets. As announced in a creators hour there will be a free universe and a pay universe. Free planets are very valuable to planetarion, because they will give new players the opportunity to test planetarion without having to pay for it, nobody is going to pay just to test if a game is fun or not. The universes however will be separated so a free account cannot in any way interact with a paid account (this includes scanning) bar messaging.

And yes, there have been a number of improvements on the tools.
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Unread 4 Aug 2003, 15:17   #50
G.K Zhukov
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Quote:
Originally posted by Leshy
Fred, your whining posts never become boring. No matter how often they come and how predictable they are, they just don't ever get old or anything. It's constantly like reading something entirely new and fresh! How do you manage to do that, each and every single time you post?


I didnt know it was Fred's fault, that creators are inept.
But I expect you, since you have been (or still are) Pacrew, to tell me Im awfully wrong.
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