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Unread 11 Dec 2003, 12:17   #51
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Re: Is it ilegal to be hacked??

unfortunately Grim, yes we are good mates, but i MUST disagree with you on this one
what you are saying is wrong
the PA team do a hell of a lot of hard work jsut to keep us mere pe0ns happy
I would give ANYTHING to work for them and have the respect and love that 99% of PA players give to them.
Hacks happen, shite happens, to more of some of us than others
SO just take it on the head, chill out, and wait till next round or sumat, getting in a stress
will not solve anything m8

Best Regards

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Unread 11 Dec 2003, 12:22   #52
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Re: Is it ilegal to be hacked??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyanide
the respect and love that 99% of PA players give to them.
lolly roffle

That will keep me chuckling all day.
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Unread 11 Dec 2003, 12:36   #53
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Re: Is it ilegal to be hacked??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyanide
unfortunately Grim, yes we are good mates, but i MUST disagree with you on this one
what you are saying is wrong
the PA team do a hell of a lot of hard work jsut to keep us mere pe0ns happy
I would give ANYTHING to work for them and have the respect and love that 99% of PA players give to them.
Hacks happen, shite happens, to more of some of us than others
SO just take it on the head, chill out, and wait till next round or sumat, getting in a stress
will not solve anything m8

Best Regards

Cyanide

are you going for "mr Hilarious" award?
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Unread 11 Dec 2003, 13:36   #54
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Re: Is it ilegal to be hacked??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeus
Is someone bitter about something? Setting paTeam as target for hacking is beyond lame and tbh if I was still working for PA I wouldnt hessitate in removing your forum account and ingame account for sujesting people hack pateam memebers JUST to get pateam removed, these are the same people who keep this game going and help all of this community for free and with their own time, taking extrmeme amounts of crap for many people. So grow to feck up and catch a grip of yourself for such silly remarks and dangerious ones at that.
good god, it was ment as a joke... (and plz dont use 500 post to tell me it was a bad one), because mit said in a pm he would step down if someone hacked him, and used whatever they could get hold of to have some fun.


U also state that pa-team keeps this game going, im pretty sure I got a lot of people on my side when I say: they have done more harm to the game lately, than helping it to survive.
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Unread 11 Dec 2003, 13:41   #55
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Re: Is it ilegal to be hacked??

Cheers Cyanide for putting a BIG smile on my face..
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
u really are a true friend.
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Unread 11 Dec 2003, 14:09   #56
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Re: Is it ilegal to be hacked??

Quote:
Originally Posted by I am Idler
are you going for "mr Hilarious" award?
Well at least i have some respect for the guys that made this game for us and keep it running.
They made it, they got the community, and yeh the fk it up every so often, but dont we all?
give them some space guys


PS Grim (i love ya)
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Unread 11 Dec 2003, 14:16   #57
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Re: Is it ilegal to be hacked??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyanide
Well at least i have some respect for the guys that made this game for us and keep it running.
They made it, they got the community, and yeh the fk it up every so often, but dont we all?
give them some space guys

All the guys who made this game and community what it was are long gone, myself included (I was a member of PACrew once, go figure). They fk it up every once in a while, which is utterly unacceptable for a p2p game.

they have been given enough 'slack' already
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Unread 11 Dec 2003, 14:17   #58
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Re: Is it ilegal to be hacked??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grim
good god, it was ment as a joke... (and plz dont use 500 post to tell me it was a bad one), because mit said in a pm he would step down if someone hacked him, and used whatever they could get hold of to have some fun.

U also state that pa-team keeps this game going, im pretty sure I got a lot of people on my side when I say: they have done more harm to the game lately, than helping it to survive.
*sigh* why can't people quote logs properly.... i did NOT say that at all.
We do a lot to keep this game going, without us the game would certainaly be no more... I do sometimes wonder why i put up wiht all the crap i get from people moaning...
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Unread 11 Dec 2003, 14:19   #59
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Re: Is it ilegal to be hacked??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyanide

PS Grim (i love ya)

Well who doesnt??
/me looks at the faces to everyone when they read it..
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Unread 11 Dec 2003, 14:19   #60
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Re: Is it ilegal to be hacked??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mit
*sigh* why can't people quote logs properly.... i did NOT say that at all.
We do a lot to keep this game going, without us the game would certainaly be no more... I do sometimes wonder why i put up wiht all the crap i get from people moaning...
mit, news flash, the game is no more
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Unread 11 Dec 2003, 14:20   #61
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Re: Is it ilegal to be hacked??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mit
*sigh* why can't people quote logs properly.... i did NOT say that at all.
We do a lot to keep this game going, without us the game would certainaly be no more... I do sometimes wonder why i put up wiht all the crap i get from people moaning...

Perhaps if you would inform people more frequent what you are doing as we speak and as you type people would know.

Without you the game would certainly not be anymore, but it's not a very good game anymore is it?
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Unread 11 Dec 2003, 14:25   #62
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Re: Is it ilegal to be hacked??

saying the game is no more
is a bit of an exageration
yeh PAX isnt that great, but its good if you spend time LEARNING how to play
instead of bitching about it rite?
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Unread 11 Dec 2003, 14:29   #63
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Re: Is it ilegal to be hacked??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyanide
saying the game is no more
is a bit of an exageration
yeh PAX isnt that great, but its good if you spend time LEARNING how to play
instead of bitching about it rite?

No, it isnt. The quality of the gameplay has deteriorated with a SHOCKING rate the last 5 rounds.
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Unread 11 Dec 2003, 14:43   #64
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Re: Is it ilegal to be hacked??

well a little bit yeh
but if its no more
then why is it still running and why r ppl still playing and signing up everyday?!
Yeh lots of ppl are going to that shitty ******** and **********
but they are CRAP in comparison
they dont have the community that PA does
or the life spirit and history
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Unread 11 Dec 2003, 14:45   #65
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Re: Is it ilegal to be hacked??

Quote:
Originally Posted by I am Idler
No, it isnt. The quality of the gameplay has deteriorated with a SHOCKING rate the last 5 rounds.
/me shows you the suggestions forum

Whats wrong, go say... i'm compiling a list of things for the future of PA at the moment, working out what we can do for Rnd 11.
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Unread 11 Dec 2003, 14:46   #66
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Re: Is it ilegal to be hacked??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyanide
well a little bit yeh
but if its no more
then why is it still running and why r ppl still playing and signing up everyday?!
Yeh lots of ppl are going to that shitty ******** and **********
but they are CRAP in comparison
they dont have the community that PA does
or the life spirit and history
Most of PA's 'community' ****ed off long ago. Current board members: less than 4000. IRC users at this precise moment? Under 2000. Active planets? You get the picture.

It's all very well saying that PA has a community and a history but stunningly that doesn't make a game fun to play.

If the alternatives were crap in comparison people wouldn't be playing them. Just like they're not playing PA now. See the logic?
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Unread 11 Dec 2003, 14:51   #67
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Re: Is it ilegal to be hacked??

Quote:
Originally Posted by pablissimo
Most of PA's 'community' ****ed off long ago. Current board members: less than 4000. IRC users at this precise moment? Under 2000. Active planets? You get the picture.

It's all very well saying that PA has a community and a history but stunningly that doesn't make a game fun to play.

If the alternatives were crap in comparison people wouldn't be playing them. Just like they're not playing PA now. See the logic?

actually now I see what you mean
but i personally will not leave PA till the end
cause i played all 10 rounds so far, and love changes and making it harder to play (and understand sometimes)
But that makes it more interesting, cause not the same ppl will win EVERY time!
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Unread 11 Dec 2003, 14:57   #68
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Re: Is it ilegal to be hacked??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyanide
but i personally will not leave PA till the end
You've retired numerous times .

Anywho. This thread was discussing hacking and the such, not how crap you may think PAX is. If you dont like PA you dont have to play it, and as Mit said, there is a suggestions forum you can go to if you want things changing.

Please get back on topic .
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Unread 11 Dec 2003, 14:59   #69
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Re: Is it ilegal to be hacked??

but i always came back didnt i?
i cant leave
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Unread 11 Dec 2003, 15:02   #70
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Re: Is it ilegal to be hacked??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyanide
well a little bit yeh
but if its no more
then why is it still running and why r ppl still playing and signing up everyday?!
Yeh lots of ppl are going to that shitty ******** and **********
but they are CRAP in comparison
they dont have the community that PA does
or the life spirit and history
Since games as ******** are so shit, then tell me why are huge chunks of the Planetarion moving to it?
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Unread 11 Dec 2003, 15:06   #71
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Re: Is it ilegal to be hacked??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave
Since games as ******** are so shit, then tell me why are huge chunks of the Planetarion moving to it?
a) cos its free b) cos its not P2P
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Unread 11 Dec 2003, 15:21   #72
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Re: Is it ilegal to be hacked??

cos it has a bigger user base & its move like the old pa
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Unread 11 Dec 2003, 17:09   #73
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Re: Is it ilegal to be hacked??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeus
Is someone bitter about something? Setting paTeam as target for hacking is beyond lame and tbh if I was still working for PA I wouldnt hessitate in removing your forum account and ingame account for sujesting people hack pateam memebers JUST to get pateam removed, these are the same people who keep this game going and help all of this community for free and with their own time, taking extrmeme amounts of crap for many people. So grow to feck up and catch a grip of yourself for such silly remarks and dangerious ones at that.
Zeus trough the time I have played this game we have had many serious conversations with you and I actualy don't think I can find many mistakes that you have done trough the years but what you say here is a clear sign to me that also you doesn't have the judgement it takes to be in charge of a game like this.
As Grim has allready stated it was ment as a joke and I don't really think that many could misunderstand that fact unless that was what they wanted to. You obviously misunderstood it and that is just sad for you. But as you said you would have removed Grim from the forums for making a joke about something that couldn't really be misunderstood. That is the kind of missjudgement I am talking about. Instead of thinking the things a bit trough you would just take action and do the mistake it would have been to delete him. What do you think would come out of it? well only fantasy can predict that but as far as I know Grim is a person who doesn't give up just like me and if that is the case then Grim would just have created another account here and continue where he left leaving you and the rest of HQ like a bunch of n00bs not able to take any consequent action. Then you might argue that you will just block his IP and for that there is not much to say beside... "Grim is a wise guy and he can find more IPs to go trough than you can block.
As I have told Grim earlier in this conversation I don't agree totaly with him, but he is perfectly right when he says that NB3 or whoever it was is not allowed to act like a fool (and yes that is even though it was in an un-official channel). NB3 has a responsebility and then it doesn't matter if he gets paid or not. He (and also the rest of the staff) MUST act professionaly and if they fail to do that then its just not good enough. They, just as MrBrick or any else working in or for HQ represents PA and the staff. Its just so un-professional and ever time such a stupit mistake is made PA loses some credit among the gamers and in the long run that is very important for the long run survival of PA.

Untill now the worst mistake ever made that I know of in such a matter was when Prince told me that Rabbagast got closed just because the community wanted to see him closed. You know such a comment has nothing to do in this game cause NOONE and that also includes MrBrick has the power to go aggainst the rules (which was also why the EULA was changed afterwards).

Remember that you can't blame Grim for pointing out that NB3 was acting in a manner which can't be accepted when he(or she) works for PA, but you can blame NB3 for doing it cause he has a responsebility, or Prince for talking sh*t when he closed rabba cause Prince had/has a responsebility or spinner every time he promised when a round would start and broke it cause he has a responsebility or even yourself as a former part of the staff and therefore maybe also "off the record" has at least a moraly responsebility. The day you can blame a person for saying what a big part of the comunity thinks is the day that you can prove that he is wrong and that day is not today.

cbk
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Unread 11 Dec 2003, 22:33   #74
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Re: Is it ilegal to be hacked??

well said
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Unread 11 Dec 2003, 23:44   #75
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Re: Is it ilegal to be hacked??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grim
ehm.. Im a bit pissed tbh.. so I do agree it wasnt really well written.. but ok lets try again..

-A person got hacked in the game.. (not necesarry to say who)
-He got closed because there where multiple ip's which had logged into his account.
-The person contacted pa - team to get it sorted, put proof on the table that he had been hacked.
(The hackers hadnt done anything but logging into his account)
-However he isnt opened again, because he is responsible for his computers safty.

Which in general mean; if ur using a computer when u access ur account, this is ofcourse not 100% hack proof, so if u do get hacked, u have cheated.. and therefor should be closed.. at least thats what pa-team says.
or rather... someone cheats and gets caught, then come up with some stupid reason/excuse to get reopened.
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Unread 12 Dec 2003, 01:15   #76
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Re: Is it ilegal to be hacked??

Quote:
Originally Posted by cbk100
Well written post
cbk
CBK, I made direct comments to grim post on hacking pateam members. My comments had nothing whats so every to do with the name of this thread. As you can see I quoted only the bit which was relivant and that quote had absolutely no smiley or anything to even sujest it was in humour. In fact grim actually through down the gauntlet to any wouldbe hacker out there to try and hack a pateam memeber. Im sure many others read it as such also, not just me as post will show. There are many young people who think they are hackers who would knowing that a pateam would loss his role in pa if he was hacked, would most certainly try it JUST to say "I did that, I got him kicked, etc.."

I feel for grim situation of a frined gettng hacked if that was the case, and I even posted a detailed post on what can and cant be done to help him understand pateams situation on it. Even tellig him a possible solution. But I cant say nothing when such a dangerious post or "calling to arms" is brought to bear on the people who, weither we accept it or not, without them PA would be offline and no more...and I know something of the hard work and decision they must take.

My comments of deleting him if I was still at HQ was hopeing to scare anyone else from joining his competition of hacking pateam, Between us I would of just edit his post and removed the offending lines. So noone even knew he posted it and pmed him with explanation why and request not to do it again. But please dont tell anyone else CBK, dont want anyone thinking Im a big softy :P
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Unread 12 Dec 2003, 02:47   #77
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Re: Is it ilegal to be hacked??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonas
or rather... someone cheats and gets caught, then come up with some stupid reason/excuse to get reopened.
Grim| asks if it's illegal to be hacked. what part don't you understand?
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Unread 12 Dec 2003, 03:25   #78
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Re: Is it ilegal to be hacked??

Im a hacker, i go around all day trying to hack into ppl's PA accounts, its so much fun! Theres tonnes more i could do once hacked into sum1's PC/e-mail but i have decided that sending a fleet out is the best thing i can do atm...

C'mon, its not even remotely believable is it really!

So yeah, sum1 gets in ur PA account chances are u have been giving details out or using VERY obvious codes and friends have been able to guess them.. as if u use ur IRC nick as ur login fs!
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Unread 12 Dec 2003, 12:00   #79
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Re: Is it ilegal to be hacked??

yeh but zeus, ur a big teddy bear really, all cuddly and fluffy!
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Unread 12 Dec 2003, 12:06   #80
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Re: Is it ilegal to be hacked??

so..

someone got closed for acc sharing, then made up a story about him being hacked, and then tells everyone he was hacked etc and hopes people believe him and that the pa team will be stupid enough to re-open his account?

what are you thinking?
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Unread 12 Dec 2003, 12:08   #81
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Re: Is it ilegal to be hacked??

He was hacked as far as I am aware, i know the person too, but I aint gunna make a huge fuss about it, cause shite happens, we move on!
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Unread 12 Dec 2003, 12:40   #82
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Re: Is it ilegal to be hacked??

Cyanide could you kindly cut your signature under the 10 line limit, thanks.

Oh and btw, you forgot Ice (twice), ND, WP(?), IPC, Seraphim and a host of other alliance in your big long list.
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Unread 12 Dec 2003, 13:11   #83
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Re: Is it ilegal to be hacked??

he had his pw guessed
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Unread 12 Dec 2003, 17:25   #84
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Re: Is it ilegal to be hacked??

He WAS hacked, he put proof on the table.. .. this isnt a person who got closed and just say.. "hey, I got hacked, open me!!!"

And Zeus:
There was two tomatos who walked on a road, then a car came by and drove over one of the tomatos. The surviving tomato then said: Come on ketchup.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
(I hope u understand thats a joke, because of the smilys?? its really not a true story, tomatoes cant talk..!!!)
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Unread 12 Dec 2003, 17:36   #85
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Re: Is it ilegal to be hacked??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grim
He WAS hacked, he put proof on the table..
You've said he has proof about 30 times now, yet you haven't shown any of it. Forgive us for being sceptic.
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Unread 12 Dec 2003, 17:42   #86
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Re: Is it ilegal to be hacked??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grim
He WAS hacked, he put proof on the table.. .. this isnt a person who got closed and just say.. "hey, I got hacked, open me!!!"
I'm yet to see this "proof" that he says he has


btw DoS attacks are not the same as being Hacked
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Unread 12 Dec 2003, 17:51   #87
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Re: Is it ilegal to be hacked??

i must say i have a problem with some of what has been said on here so as usual ill throw my two penneth in

a) the simplistic statement that "it shows blah so you are a cheat" is a very dangerous ground to be on
the problem with this is that given the hardcore use things like msn messanger irc ect , that its too easy for any person to be targetted as its simple to get yout ip addy which is 3/4 of a hackers battle won

b) its the players fault he should have used zonealarm xyz anti virus ect
the problem with this is again complex
1) xp by default has remote access and upnp (which dynamically opens firewall holes (read grc.com for full details)
2) some people log in from work or school ect where they have little or no say in what security is in place
3) as stated by zeus web based emails are easy to crack (u could troll though this board for instance and find 100 or so hotmail email addys and have the passwords to all in 12 hours) thats then a simple retrieve lost pwd option in PAX

c) if you have a trojan its you fault
1) the original 100 tick plan for PAX had a backdoor trojan within it
2) at least one bcalc had a login password system and yes some people are stupid enough to use the same one but stupidity doesnt equate to cheating (ex webangel)
3) ive had at least 1 keylogging virus from jolts own addserver of all places (svg caught it and i have a log file of it if anyones interested)
4) there have been at least 5 virri passed over the netgamers irc network which have been severe enough to have cservice do global alerts including a sub seven variant

so the problem is that unless you are a hardcore geek then at some point you will be compromised (overview message telling everyone to change passwords).

of course some people cheat and all will deny it (is there such a thing as an honest cheat)

the problem comes with dealing with this. in the case that started this thread the evidence is that someone using surfola attempted to log into that persons account . this was while the person that was closed was online ( the logins show 2 ips logging in seconds apart). it also shows that nothing was done by this other ip as it was thrown straight out by the account owner relogging in. the person also thought it strange enough that it was brought to the attention of the PA crew as in " I have a problem with pa its making me log in 2 or 3 times in 10 minutes"
the person in question was also getting major net attacks including having his inet line dos attacked which was taken to ISP abuse level

the only evidence against him appears to be 2 logins while he was online and from the log the person had with the multi hunter in question
the reason he is closed is because he is adamant he hasnt used surfola . if he had said he used surfola there is no other evidence against him.
This in itself is odd as if he had lied he wouldnt be labelled a cheat. but the onus is unfairly placed upon the closed person in this case to proove he hasnt done something which is basically impossible to proove

one way might be this. Should i wish to cheat i will place a £5000 bet with any member of pa crew or creator that if i so desired i could give one of them access to my pa account without them having to know my login or password (thus not breaching that element of the eula) and i will guarantee that any admin tool they use will not show any abnormaility whatsoever of they get the 5 grand.

thats the closest to saying that the only way under the current regime to proove that you arent cheating is to proove that you could cheat properly if you wanted to

i do this simply because if you are saying that u have to be an expert in all things security wise then you cant expect to run an online game for ordinary people

not also that the fact i will do this is evidence that the closed peron isnt me

me awaits a pm from one of them
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Unread 12 Dec 2003, 23:34   #88
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Re: Is it ilegal to be hacked??

auther pendragon sounds like a very smart man.. (I also know he is one)
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Unread 13 Dec 2003, 00:44   #89
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Re: Is it ilegal to be hacked??

Quote:
Originally Posted by auther pendragon
as its simple to get yout ip addy which is 3/4 of a hackers battle won
With people moving en masse to ADSL/Broadband, getting someone's IP is in no way part of any 'battle' anymore.
Quote:
2) some people log in from work or school ect where they have little or no say in what security is in place
Schools and work environments generally have better protection than home computers, such as hardware firewalls.
Quote:
3) as stated by zeus web based emails are easy to crack
Which is why the signup page tells you to use a proper ISP email address.
Quote:
1) the original 100 tick plan for PAX had a backdoor trojan within it
Both virus scanners and firewalls would stop the trojan.
Quote:
2) at least one bcalc had a login password system and yes some people are stupid enough to use the same one but stupidity doesnt equate to cheating (ex webangel)
Stupidity is no excuse. Before you know it, everyone will have each other's passwords and use the excuse that they didn't share it, but that someone took the same password from 'another forum' or from the 'alliance webby'. In addition, the EULA clearly states that saving your password on your HD is not safe, and that you are responsible for the safety of your password.
Quote:
3) ive had at least 1 keylogging virus from jolts own addserver of all places (svg caught it and i have a log file of it if anyones interested)
If this is true, contact Jolt about it. Comedy 'if they even respond' option.
Quote:
4) there have been at least 5 virri passed over the netgamers irc network which have been severe enough to have cservice do global alerts including a sub seven variant
Viruses and trojans pass around the internet everywhere all day long. They generally don't steal passwords.
Quote:
(overview message telling everyone to change passwords).
A simple safety measure that would prevent the ease of login sharing - if people did this regularly, the guessing of passwords would be a lot harder.
Quote:
one way might be this. Should i wish to cheat i will place a £5000 bet with any member of pa crew or creator that if i so desired i could give one of them access to my pa account without them having to know my login or password
The 'Look at me, I'm a l33t h4x0r' approach is a tad passé and takes out any element of seriousness from your post.
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Unread 13 Dec 2003, 01:41   #90
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Re: Is it ilegal to be hacked??

one very nicely completely missed set of points leshy but then again id expect nothing less from a retired player.

if u happened to read the post you might realise that the virus checkers stop everything appoach is rather deluded as is the zonealarm argument (even steve gibson says so on one of the most authoritative sites on the internet)

the trojans dont capture passwords quip is also fultile (a keylogger logs keystrokes in case you didnt happen to know this)

school networks are secure(ish) but they are also slow to implement patches and updates and its a fact that most script kiddies know their way around a school network better than the often untrained teacher who administers the network in their spare time.

likewise the motd to change passwords may seem routine to you but ovbiously the person who put it there felt the need to inform the player base following a case of a compromised password

and the last part just in case you missed my intention by accident was as follows:

Im no elite hacker or whatever the jumble of symbols you spewd means but im confident to the tune of £5k that a n00b like me can do it without any special or custom written code whatsoever.

that was put simply because rather than taking a bit of text and adding a throwaway and often nieve line a reasoned argument usually backs it up with facts and demonstrations

the actual point was that evidence that could be interpreted as a n00bish account sharing attempt could also equally be something completely different.

therefore if ts the case that its actually easier to proove that you didnt cheat by prooving that if you were doing so youd actually do it in a much smarter way. then that really shouldnt be the case. I just wondered which part of that you have a problem with. NOTE i did not threaten to tell everyone how to do it although i know for a fact it has been used

i understand fully that PA crew closes many accounts where there is clear and uniqivocal evidence that cheating has taken place and i have no doubt whatsoever that in 99.9 % of these cases there has been total denial from the offender. and to be totally honest i wouldnt wish to be a pa admin if they paid me

but its my opinion that it is unfair to judge people guilty in a case where there is more than a reasonable chance that the accused is innocent or guilty of having the same unquestionable faith in windows XP and human nature that you seem to imply we should all have.

remember PA has become a game in which day to day tactics sadly now include dossing the enemies irc servers, taking the game offline, bcalcs which have scripts which inform an alliance if any coords belong to them to forewarn them of possible attacks, or gal banners with code that record number of hits. nd ofc that isnt even mentioning exploiting bugs and loopholes in the pa code for personal advantage

pehaps it would be a suggestion they consider setting up some type of pa panel where technical evidence is presented by the multihunter and other evidence for or against (which due to the way the appeal process works cant actually be taken into account)

after all they didnt catch irvine till he posted 9 accounts in a channel did they ?
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Unread 13 Dec 2003, 11:22   #91
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Re: Is it ilegal to be hacked??

Quote:
Originally Posted by auther pendragon
one very nicely completely missed set of points leshy but then again id expect nothing less from a retired player.
Since when am I a retired player?
Quote:
(even steve gibson says so on one of the most authoritative sites on the internet)
Steve Gibson says a lot, much of which is plain bs. Read http://www.grcsucks.com.
Quote:
the trojans dont capture passwords quip is also fultile (a keylogger logs keystrokes in case you didnt happen to know this)
You'd need to install a trojan (including a keylogger, or you'd have to get that installed seperately) on someone's PC, hope that it remains undetected by a virus scanner, and in addition hope that it gets through the firewall program. Considering programs like ZoneAlarm deny access to any program trying to access the internet, it'd have to be a pretty good one.
Quote:
school networks are secure(ish) but they are also slow to implement patches and updates and its a fact that most script kiddies know their way around a school network better than the often untrained teacher who administers the network in their spare time.
I don't know what kind of schools you go to, but most ones around here have real sysadmins.
Quote:
likewise the motd to change passwords may seem routine to you but ovbiously the person who put it there felt the need to inform the player base following a case of a compromised password
A lot of companies make their employees change their passwords once every x weeks. Procedure, not necessarily a case of compromised passwords. And even if it was put on the MOTD because of a compromised password case, what exactly does that 'prove'?
Quote:
that was put simply because rather than taking a bit of text and adding a throwaway and often nieve line a reasoned argument usually backs it up with facts and demonstrations
The "Hey, I'll make a claim that I can hack PA for 5000 quid rather than use arguments so people will take me seriously" approach?
Quote:
therefore if ts the case that its actually easier to proove that you didnt cheat by prooving that if you were doing so youd actually do it in a much smarter way. then that really shouldnt be the case. I just wondered which part of that you have a problem with.
I'm still wondering which part of that actually makes any sense.
Quote:
[..] guilty of having the same unquestionable faith in windows XP and human nature that you seem to imply we should all have.
Where did I mention WinXP? The only one who's ranting on about it is you.
Quote:
after all they didnt catch irvine till he posted 9 accounts in a channel did they ?
Unfortunately not all cases can be adequately proved.
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Unread 13 Dec 2003, 12:12   #92
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Re: Is it ilegal to be hacked??

my god, you guys have WAY too much time, or nothing better to do than write a long message here!
get a lady
trust me, you can trade them in after a short while for a newer model!
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Unread 13 Dec 2003, 12:55   #93
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Re: Is it ilegal to be hacked??

i wont do the quote thing but

1) you are a retired player since you said to me on IRC "i dont play PA any more"

2) I suppose microsoft , symantec sophos ect are also full of bull or do they release patches and updates for their products just for the fun of it

3) you have to install a keylogger , zonealarm stops it ect ...you are plain wrong and thats the whole point
a)4 of the last 10 security alerts specifically point out that these new variants can disable or make pinholes in software firewalls such as zonelabs and disable virus checkers.( FACT XP and MSN have remote access built in as standard which can be started by the support desk)

b) or are u actually suggesting that people deliberately install trojans so they can participate in dos attacks ?

4) we train these people because of this fact matey (since you have a lot of spare time being a retired player perhaps you should read the OFSTED(uk) report or the NCAS (us) or the DGXIV (european) report where this was highlighted and significant funding attained to redress this failure)

5) if someone puts a warning up on MOTD regarding passwords its because that person obviously with some inside knowledge ,and perhaps a little more common sense than you ,realised that not everyone is as security concious as they should be.

6) in your attempt to appear witty and eloquent you actually succede in achieving the converse
eg :- no where did i claim to be able to hack into PA I claimed that anyone who wished to cheat could do so undetectably and very very simply with no hacking whatsoever involved

7) it wouldnt make sense to you would it, you havent seen the full text of the interview the guy had (hint it is on the web).

8) no ones ranting about XP except that in the case in question they guy had a virgin copy of XP which wasnt fully patched and used the XP firewall with is lovingly reffered to as ***t

9) u kinda shoot yourself in the foot since its fairly clear that there wasnt any evidence against Irvine that could close him till he himself provided it which is the bit you could make no sense of in (7)

in short its a fact that there is no black and white in this there are areas of significant doubt.
If you approach it with the "oh that woman deserved to be raped cos she had a mini skirt on so clearly shes a tart" mentality then yes everyones cheated cos everyone has at some point not been religious in security measures

so a short suggestion rather than assuming everyone not clued up as you are is either stupid and/or a cheat why not make a short 10 point guide to security for a PA player and give it to the community.
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Unread 13 Dec 2003, 12:58   #94
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Re: Is it ilegal to be hacked??

Leshy: for the sake of the pa community, can you please stop posting on this board..
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Unread 13 Dec 2003, 13:53   #95
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Re: Is it ilegal to be hacked??

oh heres the log btw


[ 20:10:30 ] <Mit|Away> just looked over it
[ 20:10:57 ] <Mit|Away> you've been logging in from surfola minutes after logging in from a .no address
[ 20:11:09 ] <accused> that's what I don't understand
[ 20:11:14 ] <accused> when was that?
[ 20:11:20 ] <Mit|Away> not a problem in itself, but, there are also logs of you saying you've not logged in from surfola, not even knowing what it is
[ 20:11:30 ] <Mit|Away> so, clearly, if YOU haven't, someone else has
[ 20:11:46 ] <accused> that's impossible
[ 20:11:52 ] <accused> as I haven't given pass away
[ 20:13:21 ] <Mit|Away> well, if thats the case, you mst be able to explain surfola
[ 20:13:22 ] <Mit|Away>
[ 20:13:27 ] <accused> and how many minutes was it between logins? and which date?
[ 20:13:36 ] <accused> and how many times?
[ 20:13:52 ] <Mit|Away> (19:10:12) * Dns resolved 208.184.25.41 to www2.surfola.com
[ 20:14:13 ] <Mit|Away> Tue Oct 21 05:45:16 2003 208.184.25.41
[ 20:14:13 ] <Mit|Away> Tue Oct 21 05:49:57 2003 217.118.49.80
[ 20:14:17 ] <Mit|Away> one example in the report
[ 20:15:26 ] <accused> 217.118 is obviously mine
[ 20:15:29 ] <accused> and
[ 20:15:30 ] <Mit|Away> yup
[ 20:15:31 ] <Mit|Away>
[ 20:15:36 ] <Mit|Away> 208 is surfola, as above
[ 20:15:41 ] <accused> as I haven't heard about surfola before
[ 20:15:43 ] <Mit|Away> 4 mins between the logins
[ 20:15:43 ] <accused> I find it strange
[ 20:15:49 ] <accused> in the middle of the night
[ 20:15:56 ] <accused> on a tuesday?
[ 20:16:01 ] <Mit|Away> yup
[ 20:16:22 ] <accused> more examples than that one time btw?
[ 20:16:38 ] <Mit|Away> Tue Oct 21 10:01:57 2003 128.39.75.200
[ 20:16:38 ] <Mit|Away> Tue Oct 21 10:29:41 2003 208.184.25.39
[ 20:16:38 ] <Mit|Away> Tue Oct 21 10:30:57 2003 128.39.75.200
[ 20:16:50 ] <Mit|Away> a different .no isp
[ 20:17:46 ] <accused> 128.39.75.200 is from my school
[ 20:18:09 ] <accused> but I can't explain teh 208 thing
[ 20:18:12 ] <Mit|Away> (19:13:09) * Dns resolved 128.39.75.200 to pc200-75.iu.hio.no
[ 20:18:20 ] <accused> yae
[ 20:19:09 ] <accused> you have alot of these examples?
[ 20:19:28 ] <accused> is it possible that opera browser have built in setting to go through surfola?
[ 20:19:30 ] <Mit|Away> another from your home IP
[ 20:19:44 ] <accused> cos I know I've tried opera out
[ 20:19:47 ] <Mit|Away> no, last time i chekced surfola was a pay service (if its the one i'm thinking of)
[ 20:20:29 ] <accused> were anything being done inside my account from those surfola thingies
[ 20:20:30 ] <accused> ?
[ 20:20:36 ] <Mit|Away> i can't tell
[ 20:20:40 ] <accused> k
[ 20:21:17 ] <accused> strange that I would have someone logging in to my account when I was online myself
[ 20:21:24 ] <Mit|Away> indeed
[ 20:21:25 ] <accused> I thought I had a tricky password
[ 20:22:36 ] <accused> you said there were 3 times it happened? and all same date?
[ 20:22:53 ] <Mit|Away> 2 on one date, 1 on another in the initial report
[ 20:22:57 ] <Mit|Away> they were the ones looked at
[ 20:23:02 ] <Mit|Away> or rather, written down
[ 20:23:03 ] <Mit|Away>
[ 20:24:00 ] <accused> I can't explain it more than you can
[ 20:24:10 ] <accused> I know nobody has my pw
[ 20:24:18 ] <Mit|Away> if that be the case, i can't re-open you.
============

============

[ 21:01:55 ] <Mit|Away> i'd recomend clearing all mIRC scripts
[ 21:02:02 ] <Mit|Away> running a virus scan, and adaware
[ 21:02:09 ] <Mit|Away> and poss getting a firewall
[ 21:02:21 ] <accused> yea =\
[ 21:02:44 ] <Mit|Away> http://soho.sygate.com - free firewall
[ 21:02:52 ] <Mit|Away> http://housecall.antivirus.com - online virus scanner
[ 21:03:09 ] <Mit|Away> mirc scripts, either clean urself if you know what ur doing, or delete it all and install a CLEAN copy
[ 21:04:12 ] <accused> so these 3 logins from surfola which I can't explain and nothing was being done to my account those times label me as a big bad cheater of planetarion then?
[ 21:04:31 ] <Mit|Away> no, but still a cheater
[ 21:04:34 ] <Mit|Away> a cheater is a cheater :/
[ 21:04:55 ] <Mit|Away> security of your own pc is an issue that YOU have to watch out for...
[ 21:07:07 ] <accused> so if I'd lied and said to nb3 form the start that I did indeed log in from surfola a couple of times, then it would be all ok?
[ 21:07:11 ] <accused> [ 20:11:20 ] <Mit|Away> not a problem in itself, but, there are also logs of you saying you've not logged in from surfola, not even knowing what it is
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Unread 13 Dec 2003, 13:59   #96
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Re: Is it ilegal to be hacked??

Stick that log in a link please rather than just posting it all in here, thanks.
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Unread 13 Dec 2003, 14:04   #97
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Re: Is it ilegal to be hacked??

<Mit|Away> 2 on one date, 1 on another in the initial report


I havent seen the report, but from mits above comment does this imply, the about the first ip to access the account was from sufola, then it begs the question. Did someone else create the account for the accused or just give it to the accoused. If so, then perhaps there is the security issue. He already knows the login as that cant be changed. If the email hasnt been changed then he may have acess to that email account and request the password, even if the accused has changed it.

It has happened before and is the reason why you are not allowed to create more than one account, even for someone else as people have claimed hacking many times before, without realising its the person who created the account.
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Unread 13 Dec 2003, 14:19   #98
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Re: Is it ilegal to be hacked??

Thing is, it's too simplistic to say " get a firewall" , "get a virusscanner". More and more virii/worms/keyloggers are created to stealth themselves... They disable antivirussoftware, they elude/go around softwarefirewalls.

The fact that XP has tons of security holes doesnt help either...

Thirdly the windows tcp/ip stack is not as refined as the tcp/ip stack in linux. You may have a software firewall under XP, yet someone might still be able to gain access to your computer using linux. In the days where alliances ircservers get dossed/hacked, where pa servers have been dossed on multiple occasions.. it's not that unlikely that someone who wants to gain access to your computer, can actually do it
 
Unread 13 Dec 2003, 14:33   #99
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Re: Is it ilegal to be hacked??

Zeus
yea i can see that could be the case but i think Mit was referring to nb3s initial report

its clear that its not a black and white case though

i may be wrong though
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Unread 13 Dec 2003, 15:31   #100
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Re: Is it ilegal to be hacked??

Quote:
Originally Posted by auther pendragon
(even steve gibson says so on one of the most authoritative sites on the internet)
I was with you until you mentioned Steve Gibson as an authoritative source on the subject of security. The man is a joke, full of shit and conning gullible people all over the net. ****ing nanobot technology my arse!
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