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Unread 19 Sep 2003, 15:49   #1
Eventh
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Alliance and Passport security

I just discovered that the portal shows how many members my alliance got in the ingame alliance..

After logged in with passport, and going to the portal frontpage, it shows personal stats, my coords and then alliance stats..

Im worried that this can be abused in some way..
When you register at the passport they ask for a loginname, a nick name, email adresse and Pnick..

i guess the email is used to link to the planetarion database..

But even if this is secure and not xploitable, i dont like that normal members knows the number of members in the alliance..
I guess even recruits would know it, but im not sure about that..
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Unread 19 Sep 2003, 16:13   #2
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Re: Alliance and Passport security

Quote:
Originally posted by Eventh
I just discovered that the portal shows how many members my alliance got in the ingame alliance..

After logged in with passport, and going to the portal frontpage, it shows personal stats, my coords and then alliance stats..

Im worried that this can be abused in some way..
When you register at the passport they ask for a loginname, a nick name, email adresse and Pnick..

i guess the email is used to link to the planetarion database..

But even if this is secure and not xploitable, i dont like that normal members knows the number of members in the alliance..
I guess even recruits would know it, but im not sure about that..
Yes - we link your passport account to your planet. Like your game account you should endeavour to keep your username and password secret (having said that it should be normal for everyone to keep their passwords a secret anyway)

We're as confident as we can be that it's secure as long as you don't give out your password to anyone.

To clarify about who can see that information - Anyone above the level of 'Applicant' is deemed to be a member of the alliance.
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Unread 19 Sep 2003, 16:22   #3
Eventh
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Re: Re: Alliance and Passport security

Quote:
Originally posted by A2
To clarify about who can see that information - Anyone above the level of 'Applicant' is deemed to be a member of the alliance.
above? that measn that you cant see it untill you are accepted right?
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Unread 19 Sep 2003, 16:27   #4
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Re: Re: Alliance and Passport security

Quote:
Originally posted by A2
We'd much prefer it if people didn't know our membercount.

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Unread 19 Sep 2003, 16:41   #5
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hmm...i'm sure there were some posts from other alliances agreeing with xtothez a second ago....changed their mind, or over-eager modding?
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Unread 19 Sep 2003, 16:57   #6
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would have been nice if the alliance hc's were asked which info thìer members should see.
Although the alliances are coded into the game, its still the HC running them, and we should be the ones who decide which information is going out to "ALL" members.

I for one do not want the member count to be open like this, the rest of the info is on universe page anyways.

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Unread 19 Sep 2003, 17:03   #7
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Re: Alliance and Passport security

Quote:
Originally posted by Eventh
I just discovered that the portal shows how many members my alliance got in the ingame alliance..

After logged in with passport, and going to the portal frontpage, it shows personal stats, my coords and then alliance stats..

Im worried that this can be abused in some way..
When you register at the passport they ask for a loginname, a nick name, email adresse and Pnick..

i guess the email is used to link to the planetarion database..

But even if this is secure and not xploitable, i dont like that normal members knows the number of members in the alliance..
I guess even recruits would know it, but im not sure about that..
The only way the system can be abused is by someone gaining access to your account, this is one of the reasons for different login names and display names - added security.

The email address, is used to send you your password, to cut down on ppl reg'ing for the fun of it and so we have a way to contact you should it be needed (not likely). P Nick will come into play soon when i get the new IRC bot online. (Creators Hour question asking for one).

Please do tell me, what can a member do knowing there are X other members in an alliance? Where is the harm in that...
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Unread 19 Sep 2003, 17:08   #8
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Re: Re: Alliance and Passport security

Quote:
Originally posted by Mit


Please do tell me, what can a member do knowing there are X other members in an alliance? Where is the harm in that...
why does he need to know......

fact is, it should be up to the alliance to decide, not u guys.
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Unread 19 Sep 2003, 17:16   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by SYMM
hmm...i'm sure there were some posts from other alliances agreeing with xtothez a second ago....changed their mind, or over-eager modding?
It wasn't me.
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Unread 19 Sep 2003, 17:22   #10
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Re: Re: Alliance and Passport security

Quote:
Originally posted by Mit


Please do tell me, what can a member do knowing there are X other members in an alliance? Where is the harm in that...
Looks like our voices where heard.

Tnx for taking the number of members out guys.
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Unread 19 Sep 2003, 18:26   #11
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Re: Re: Re: Alliance and Passport security

Quote:
Originally posted by Ace
Looks like our voices where heard.

Tnx for taking the number of members out guys.
And in future. a good suggestion would be for alliances to get together somewhere.. give me a list of contact emails or something so we can discuss other parts of the passport / toolkit as it seems i could be wasting my time...
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Unread 19 Sep 2003, 18:53   #12
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Re: Re: Alliance and Passport security

Quote:
Originally posted by Mit

Please do tell me, what can a member do knowing there are X other members in an alliance? Where is the harm in that...
Mit look at it from a small alliances viewpoint please.

You recruit a new member for your 20 player alliance, this player adds vital score, ships and experiance to your group. Now the player knows the alliance isnt one of the big players but from what they have seen of it they feel its more than adequate for their needs.

They then see that you have just 20 other members and the immeditaly start to think "this was a mistake" and leave the alliance. The member figure is an extreamly powerful yet fairly insignificant aspect of an alliances appeal, a high member count makes members feel good, low member count demoralises them but a small alliance can be just as fun to play in, just as organised and you can do well with them. Alliances dont start big and grow because they have aspects that please members but without being able to hold onto and expand on the memberbase its hopeless. The membercount is damaging for this aim.


Also the membercount is a dangourous thing to be in the public domain like it is. If an enemy know how many members you have they have great power over you. All it takes is for them to get a spy in your alliance or for one of your members to accedently mention it and they have an immediate advantage.



TBH the whole alliance system seems flawed in general, you want alliances to use the ingame system and make it so it has to be used if your alliance is to have any chance of defending members yet you seem to have forgotten to investigate what alliances need for the system to work.

Just off the top of my head the system needs the following

1)More control over what info is made public
2)More control over userlevels, the default levels are very generic and dont fit in with the
3)Better defence system, with there being such a small window to defend this is of little use. IRC is better for this than the ingame system only way it would be useful in game would be if it was automated much like the galaxy status
4)Better Attack system, most alliance have had better systems on their own sites
5)More member info on joining viewable to us. P Nicks, email address and such like which would allow us to verify applicants better for example. Without it you still require a seperate site to recruit people from first
6)As has been suggested ability to see things like the fleet compiste of the alliance would be handy
7)Perhaps an alliance fund with an exchange rate around the same as galaxy fund so that alliances members can hekp each other out more

As it is most of the features are not enough to make the system useful for alliances to use, they either too restictive or not restrictive enough


grrr write all this and then see others have posted saying Mits removed it now, ah well alot of the things still apply

Oh and mit run the ideas you have for the toolkit on the forums, then everyone from the biggest alliance to the smallest alliance can put their view across
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Unread 19 Sep 2003, 19:01   #13
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Oh Mit theres still a problem with the alliance feature BTW, the figures dont actually add up. For example the rankings are not the same as in game, and neither are any of the scores

For example currently in game F-Crew is ranked 22, the portal claims 24 (and this is after the updated portal stats for tick 150)
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Unread 19 Sep 2003, 19:06   #14
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Re: Re: Re: Alliance and Passport security

Quote:
Originally posted by wakey
Agreed. I've already stated that the in-game tools pale in comparison to 3rd party ones, and are more of a burden then a bonus to many. If the game staff want their systems to be taken seriously they should listen to alliance commanders or give out their restricted info to someone who knows what to do with it (lo enhanced DB dumps being used for Mit's new tools in Passport).

(but thank you for removing membercount)
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Unread 19 Sep 2003, 19:07   #15
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Alliance and Passport security

Quote:
Originally posted by Mit
And in future. a good suggestion would be for alliances to get together somewhere.. give me a list of contact emails or something so we can discuss other parts of the passport / toolkit as it seems i could be wasting my time...
Mit I think most alliances would be happy to talk to you about features you want to add to the portal.
It would be nice if we can talk about them before you add them.

But lets start doing it now then.
Your allways welcome in our public rooms to invite us to a channel of your choice to talk about it.
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Unread 19 Sep 2003, 20:23   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by wakey
Oh Mit theres still a problem with the alliance feature BTW, the figures dont actually add up. For example the rankings are not the same as in game, and neither are any of the scores

For example currently in game F-Crew is ranked 22, the portal claims 24 (and this is after the updated portal stats for tick 150)
Something to do with the fact one counts recruits and one doesn't. also, thats 24th, there MIGHT be oither alliances with exactly the same score and i order differently in that circumstance to in game. I know about that from the Planet Info atm.
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Unread 19 Sep 2003, 20:24   #17
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Alliance and Passport security

Quote:
Originally posted by Ace
Mit I think most alliances would be happy to talk to you about features you want to add to the portal.
It would be nice if we can talk about them before you add them.

But lets start doing it now then.
Your allways welcome in our public rooms to invite us to a channel of your choice to talk about it.
heh, you think i have time to go around chasing all alliance HCs... heh. Hence why i said, you will have to come to me if you want an input. Sorry, but i can't do everything.
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Unread 19 Sep 2003, 20:43   #18
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Exclamation Re: Alliance and Passport security

Quote:
Originally posted by Mit
heh, you think i have time to go around chasing all alliance HCs... heh. Hence why i said, you will have to come to me if you want an input. Sorry, but i can't do everything.
Well you could always revive the PA Senate.

Or you could use this forum.
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Unread 19 Sep 2003, 21:39   #19
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Quick action on the portal issue, thanks; now let's see some action on the traveltime problem
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Unread 19 Sep 2003, 22:48   #20
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Hmm those alliance stats are far from accurate

It shows R&T on 11th spot (+1) in tick 154, while we are currently 14th...
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Unread 20 Sep 2003, 08:47   #21
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Quote:
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Hmm those alliance stats are far from accurate

It shows R&T on 11th spot (+1) in tick 154, while we are currently 14th...
I'm not 100% sure on this, but i THINK i get the people waiting to join alliances included with the dump. Not just full members...
I can't tell without some info from alliances to work it out.
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Unread 20 Sep 2003, 09:18   #22
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Looks like we can blaim pa team for that then.... I do wonder what the point is in them including people waiting to join... as thats entirly meaningless, hopefully this will get changed.
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Unread 20 Sep 2003, 10:13   #23
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Looks like we can blaim pa team for that then....
Pssst. I hear Osama Bin Laden is also PA Team.
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