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Unread 13 Jul 2003, 19:02   #1
XeroX
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Why planetarion never will regain its reputation and glory

Since r6-r7 the major problem of PA has been the membercount
and ever round you make plans for increasing it - yet, it only decreases.

doesnt that give you a hint that something is wrong?

For starters, your membercount WILL decrease when you assign incompetent multihunters who close half the universe without proof, and mail the owners saying "Proove you dont cheat and we will reopen you".

I actually didnt think ppl was that stupid in this modern world, YOU are the accusing part, so YOU should bring the closed planets the evidence and proove THEY cheated, not the other way around

If the PAteam learned proper manners and tuned their arrogance down a bit (this doesnt involve everyone.) planetarion would be a better, more enjoyable game for all parts, with the exeption that the multihunters cant affect the game as they please (ie. who's winning, unless _they_ got proof ofc.)

Planetarion is dead - and you killed it.

Note: This is not a thread regarding Lepauli's closing.
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Unread 13 Jul 2003, 19:13   #2
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I believe as explained on the portal that once a planet is closed the multihunters believe that person is guilty. So by definition would that not mean one would have to prove you are not guilty?

Or would you rather be closed on suspicion only?
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Unread 13 Jul 2003, 19:20   #3
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it doesnt matter very much, they seem to be closing as THEY please, even if they dont have evidence, or even reason to suspect cheating

Multihunters are at no good in this condition, as they close ppl that dont cheat, and gives a fk about the ones who does cheat.
If you dont plan to take your responsibilities seriously, dont do it at all.
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Unread 13 Jul 2003, 19:22   #4
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Re: Why planetarion never will regain its reputation and glory

Quote:
Originally posted by XeroX
For starters, your membercount WILL decrease when you assign incompetent multihunters who close half the universe without proof, and mail the owners saying "Proove you dont cheat and we will reopen you".
No. Membercount did not in the first place decrease because caught cheaters were closed. It decreased more because (not a complete list, no specific order):

- self-so-called "elite" players bashed the crap out of everyone daring to sign up and continued to do so

- most rounds were boring after 4 weeks playing because the race was won, a stable situation was set up and nothing moved (read: "stagnation")

- PA is p2p

- caught cheaters were re-opened because of their "celebrety"-status and good relations to SOME of the crew

- ppl being extremely aggressive not only by sending attacking ships but also by DDoSing every little sh*t that could be DDoSed, lied about the ppl in the "enemy"-fraction in a personal insulting way and such stuff (read: ppl taking a game personal and far too important)

- playing a game with a highly repetitive course each and every round gets boring with the time. Also playing for some years on a 16/7-level makes ppl tired.

- etc.

Quote:
Originally posted by XeroX
Planetarion is dead - and you killed it.
Some would say that PA is dead since r5. Each and every round there are at least 20 threads saying "PA is dead and Spinner/crew/$ALLIANCE killed it". Still lots of ppl play and when I read the "how much work..." thread correctly, they still spend a hell of time for it and intend to continue so. Despite the things every round happen.
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Unread 13 Jul 2003, 19:32   #5
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Lerxst, those are factors aswell, but multihunters have made alot of bad and even directly WRONG decisions the past round, and ESPECIALLY this round, they seem to be closing ppl at random just to fill some kind of quota

Why play honest if you get closed for it?
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Unread 13 Jul 2003, 19:32   #6
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Well..

Instead of thinking small.. PA should start think bigger...

Well..
Allow multi!

1. This will increase income.
2. No more stupid closings.
3. The game will be equal for all.
4. There must be some more reasons
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Unread 13 Jul 2003, 19:33   #7
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lol :P
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Unread 13 Jul 2003, 19:40   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by XeroX
Lerxst, those are factors aswell, but multihunters have made alot of bad and even directly WRONG decisions the past round, and ESPECIALLY this round, they seem to be closing ppl at random just to fill some kind of quota

Why play honest if you get closed for it?
There is NO quota, and we do NOT close people at random.
The problem we face is that if we're too cautious in closing people, we get ranted at because we're not doing enough to tackle cheating. If we do close people, we get ranted at for closing too many people or the wrong people. In fact, we get ranted at whatever we do, so i don't really know how to take this.
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Unread 13 Jul 2003, 19:50   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by XeroX
and ESPECIALLY this round, they seem to be closing ppl at random just to fill some kind of quota
No, these past few rounds PA Team has started to crack down on cheaters much harder, and with more people. Cheating was getting way out of hand and over the past few rounds PA Team has shown to no longer tolerate it and take action.

The result is that the multihunters are getting a lot more reports in as people seem to be becoming more aware that serious effort is being undertaken to stop cheating in the game. Combined with the fact that a good number of people are indeed cheating, this has lead to an increasing number of closures.

There is no quotum of closures to be met, nor are people randomly being closed.
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Unread 13 Jul 2003, 19:53   #10
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Just to inform you, we do the checking BEFORE closing someone, not close then find the evidence. I will NOT close a planet if i do not have any evidence to back me up.

People are only closed for GENUINE reasons and not "cos i feel like it" etc

Whatever we do, we're facing a loosing battle... either the genuine players moan about too many cheats, or the cheats moan cos we're closing too many 'random' people.
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Unread 13 Jul 2003, 19:54   #11
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How about not closing half the universe or anyone that is sent a report on?

Earlier this round i was WP, whenever i'd get incs the BCs would tell me "report them, we might get lucky"

now, what does that tell you?

I just dont see the point in sacrifising 2 months with minimal amounts of sleep, dedicating yourself at all times (if you wanna win atleast) and the rest of this ****, if im gonna get closed without cheating.

You seem to have a problem, you both create and removes cheaters.
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Unread 13 Jul 2003, 19:55   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by XeroX
How about not closing half the universe or anyone that is sent a report on?

Earlier this round i was WP, whenever i'd get incs the BCs would tell me "report them, we might get lucky"

now, what does that tell you?

I just dont see the point in sacrifising 2 months with minimal amounts of sleep, dedicating yourself at all times (if you wanna win atleast) and the rest of this ****, if im gonna get closed without cheating.

You seem to have a problem, you both create and removes cheaters.
Report and u 'might get lucky' - heh, we will NOT close none cheaters. We close people where there is enough evidence to back up the report of cheating. There is NO random closures, they are all warrented and HAVE evidence to support them.
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Unread 13 Jul 2003, 19:58   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by XeroX
How about not closing half the universe or anyone that is sent a report on?
If the multihunters find evidence that half the universe is cheating, then half the universe will be closed. As for your second point, planets only get closed if enough evidence is found; a lot more reports come in than planets get closed.
Quote:
Earlier this round i was WP, whenever i'd get incs the BCs would tell me "report them, we might get lucky"

now, what does that tell you?
That the players are creating extra useless work for the multihunters? Besides, doesn't this contradict your point that we close everyone we get reports on?
Quote:
I just dont see the point in sacrifising 2 months with minimal amounts of sleep, dedicating yourself at all times (if you wanna win atleast) and the rest of this ****, if im gonna get closed without cheating.
If you're not cheating, you don't have to worry about getting closed.
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Unread 13 Jul 2003, 20:01   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by Leshy
Besides, doesn't this contradict your point that we close everyone we get reports on?
If you're not cheating, you don't have to worry about getting closed.
Are you for real?
how about using ur brain instead of taking everything i type litteral, saying you close everyone you get reports on was an overstatement, yes..sadly not by far.
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Unread 13 Jul 2003, 20:04   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by XeroX
Are you for real?
how about using ur brain instead of taking everything i type litteral, saying you close everyone you get reports on was an overstatement, yes..sadly not by far.
erm, by quite a long way actually...u don't get to see how many reports we get a day, u don't get to see the closure reports so wouldn't know how many are actually closed. The numbers are quite far appart actually... there are a lot of 'it looks a little odd' or 'lets try it' that aren't actually multies. These never get closed.
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Unread 13 Jul 2003, 20:06   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mit
Report and u 'might get lucky' - heh, we will NOT close none cheaters. We close people where there is enough evidence to back up the report of cheating. There is NO random closures, they are all warrented and HAVE evidence to support them.
Oh, really Mr Mit?
We both know thats bull****, you personally closed me.
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Unread 13 Jul 2003, 20:08   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by XeroX
Oh, really Mr Mit?
We both know thats bull****, you personally closed me.
yes, and i'm still not convinced by that 'long winded' email address swapping, login swapping (cos u couldn't think of ur own) story u came up with.
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Unread 13 Jul 2003, 20:09   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by XeroX
Earlier this round i was WP, whenever i'd get incs the BCs would tell me "report them, we might get lucky"

now, what does that tell you?
That WP BCs are quite messing with you? (Either that or they are too lazy to cover to or plain stupid)

Quote:
Originally posted by XeroX
I just dont see the point in sacrifising 2 months with minimal amounts of sleep, dedicating yourself at all times (if you wanna win atleast) and the rest of this ****, if im gonna get closed without cheating.
I never heard of anyone who was closed that he had not did something at least real shady. I am neither crew nor in any way related to them, and I can only speak fro what I experienced since r3. But no one will ever be closed just "for fun" or to fulfill some quota. For every closed player I got notice of, there were at least some good points showing enough evidence to say "He did not stick to the rules".

Your friend may tell you "I am innocent" and you may tend to trust your friend or ally mate more than the anonimous multihunters or PA-crew. So do I. But sadly I had to make the experience that also your friends sometimes "bend the truth" to fix up an excuse (let's call it what it is - lying).
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Unread 13 Jul 2003, 20:11   #19
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what about?

Why no comment on my suggestion?

1. Allow multi (more accounts will be bought, bigger world).

This must be good?

Lepauli
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Unread 13 Jul 2003, 20:12   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lerxst
Your friend may tell you "I am innocent" and you may tend to trust your friend or ally mate more than the anonimous multihunters or PA-crew. So do I. But sadly I had to make the experience that also your friends sometimes "bend the truth" to fix up an excuse (let's call it what it is - lying).
Not many people believe or trust PAteam and this sort of thread is exactly the reason why.
"I've got closed. Damn. Pateam will pay for this, let's see how many more people we can get to hate them..."
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Unread 13 Jul 2003, 20:12   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mit
yes, and i'm still not convinced by that 'long winded' email address swapping, login swapping (cos u couldn't think of ur own) story u came up with.
I dont give a ****, close me.
Another thing, i got reopened didnt i?

Btw, i dont belive you're allowed to bring this private matter to a public board with such details.
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Unread 13 Jul 2003, 20:13   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by XeroX
Btw, i dont belive you're allowed to bring this private matter to a public board with such details.
I believe you were the one who brought it up...
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Unread 13 Jul 2003, 20:15   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mushroom
I believe you were the one who brought it up...
Yeah, as a part of the discussion, the details he posted had nothing to do with this.

You say you're never wrong, i say you are.

And besides, blame yourself..you are a part of the problem as you create cheaters while trying to prevent them.
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Unread 13 Jul 2003, 20:15   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by XeroX
I dont give a ****, close me.
Another thing, i got reopened didnt i?

Btw, i dont belive you're allowed to bring this private matter to a public board with such details.
You got re-opened cos spinner knows u and the owner of one of the other accounts. I notice, the main acc was marked for deletion at one point (yes, i was doing as i said, and checking up on u occasionally)

And btw, you brought the matter up
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Unread 13 Jul 2003, 20:16   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by XeroX
You say you're never wrong, i say you are.
Quote me as once saying PAteam is never wrong. Ever.

-Edit- and without some form of details, you knew mit wouldn't be able to defend himself from your comments in any way. Was that the plan? Get him so either he keeps quiet and you can point out how unfair PAteam are, or he gives out some info and perhaps might get himself in trouble?
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Unread 13 Jul 2003, 20:18   #26
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Re: what about?

Quote:
Originally posted by Lepauli
Why no comment on my suggestion?

1. Allow multi (more accounts will be bought, bigger world).

This must be good?

Lepauli
*hehe* Believe it or not - this game definitely will become unplayable. Bots, massive multiing, massive bashing of those who play by the rules. This will become a silly and dull game where those will "win" who will cheat most. Other games experienced this before. Allow multiing and PA will become a real farce (more, so much more than now ).
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Unread 13 Jul 2003, 20:19   #27
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But Mit, didnt you just say PAteam didnt close ppl without beeing sure they cheated?

If spinner knows me, and if spinner knows one of the other account holders, isnt that proof i didnt cheat?

STILL you closed me, and you wouldnt have reopened me unless i sorted it with Spinner
And thats not enough, you still raise doubts about me cheating.


hmm..
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Unread 13 Jul 2003, 20:20   #28
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Re: what about?

Quote:
Originally posted by Lepauli
Why no comment on my suggestion?

1. Allow multi (more accounts will be bought, bigger world).

This must be good?

Lepauli
Some people want a sensible game, without cheaters etc. Why should those that can cheat more, have an advantage over those who can't.... hence NO CHEATING AT ALL.
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Unread 13 Jul 2003, 20:23   #29
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mushroom
Quote me as once saying PAteam is never wrong. Ever.

-Edit- and without some form of details, you knew mit wouldn't be able to defend himself from your comments in any way. Was that the plan? Get him so either he keeps quiet and you can point out how unfair PAteam are, or he gives out some info and perhaps might get himself in trouble?
Saying "You" i pointed at the multihunters in general.

Quote:
Originally posted by Mit
Report and u 'might get lucky' - heh, we will NOT close none cheaters. We close people where there is enough evidence to back up the report of cheating. There is NO random closures, they are all warrented and HAVE evidence to support them.

Mit could have defended himself easily without bringing up details, all i was saying is that even though he never closed non-cheaters, he closed me, and i would have been closed if it was up to him.
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Unread 13 Jul 2003, 20:23   #30
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Quote:
Originally posted by XeroX
But Mit, didnt you just say PAteam didnt close ppl without beeing sure they cheated?

If spinner knows me, and if spinner knows one of the other account holders, isnt that proof i didnt cheat?

STILL you closed me, and you wouldnt have reopened me unless i sorted it with Spinner
And thats not enough, you still raise doubts about me cheating.


hmm..
Yes, but i don't go to spinner asking does he know EVERYONE i close... cos obviously he doesn't... from the 3 planets actions, u were cheating, I cannot prove that 'ur friend' was actually playing, but nor can u prove he was. For all spinner / i knew, u could be signed up using his name for false info (would explain the email 'swapping' etc) KNOWING that Spinner knew u both, and u could use him to get u re-opened.

We cannot talk to the creators for EVERY closure we do, Spinner trusts us to judge things on our own, which we do, occasionally we might get it wrong... people are re-opened promptly after they've explained. BUT we do NOT close someone without enough evidence to close them.
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Unread 13 Jul 2003, 20:24   #31
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Quote:
Originally posted by XeroX
Mit could have defended himself easily without bringing up details, all i was saying is that even though he never closed non-cheaters, he closed me, and i would have been closed if it was up to him.
And the other PA Team members i queried the case with. (I think it was 5 of us agreed about it)
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Unread 13 Jul 2003, 20:29   #32
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mit
Yes, but i don't go to spinner asking does he know EVERYONE i close... cos obviously he doesn't... from the 3 planets actions, u were cheating, I cannot prove that 'ur friend' was actually playing, but nor can u prove he was. For all spinner / i knew, u could be signed up using his name for false info (would explain the email 'swapping' etc) KNOWING that Spinner knew u both, and u could use him to get u re-opened.

We cannot talk to the creators for EVERY closure we do, Spinner trusts us to judge things on our own, which we do, occasionally we might get it wrong... people are re-opened promptly after they've explained. BUT we do NOT close someone without enough evidence to close them.
So you dont trust Spinner's decision (saying you still belive i cheat) ?
And, if you are so sure i cheat why havent i been closed again? are you telling me there's a proven cheater still playing?

Tbh, i had no idea Spinner would even remember me or even remembered my nick

Quote:
Originally posted by Mit
I cannot prove that 'ur friend' was actually playing, but nor can u prove he was
[/b]
Its not my job to proove anything, thats YOUR job.

If you cant do your job properly, dont do it - it only leads to misclosures and stuff.
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Unread 13 Jul 2003, 20:30   #33
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Xerox

i think you're taking what Mit said a bit too seriously here:
We only close people if there is evidence towards their closure, and everything we do is logged, so we'd better have a damn good reason for doing so. Occasionally, we get it wrong. Yes, we're only human. But you would only have been closed if Mit (and the others in PAteam that he asked) felt that there was sufficient evidence. The fact that spinner could explain this and reopened you is extra, and makes your case a one off, and therefore not fit to describe as 'standard practice' for PAteam.
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Unread 13 Jul 2003, 20:31   #34
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mit
And the other PA Team members i queried the case with. (I think it was 5 of us agreed about it)
What that tells me, is how incompetent the bunch of you are..
Another thing that struck me were your arrogance, i pmed you several times to ask you to send the evidence list to my email, still you didnt bother to reply
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Unread 13 Jul 2003, 20:35   #35
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Ok, enough of this

The point of this post was to try to make you more aware of what you are doing.

You cant just do whatever you'd like because you have the power to, cause there are infact real ppl behind that account name that has worked hard for their achievement.
When i was closed, i was showed no respect what so ever, Mit and MrBrick treated me with nothing but arrogance, and i was lucky to get reopened even tho i didnt cheat, and that is ****ed up.

I was told to bring them proof i didnt cheat if i didnt want to get closed, and they didnt even bother mailing me a list of their evidence
Thats not doing a proper job, imo.
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Unread 13 Jul 2003, 20:37   #36
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Quote:
Originally posted by XeroX
What that tells me, is how incompetent the bunch of you are..
Another thing that struck me were your arrogance, i pmed you several times to ask you to send the evidence list to my email, still you didnt bother to reply
And yes, i did reply when u spoke to me, tnx

I told u the evidence at the time [edited]
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Unread 13 Jul 2003, 20:41   #37
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mit
And yes, i did reply when u spoke to me, tnx

I told u the evidence at the time (the mess up of names / emails) the attacking with (as escorts) / defending each other at all hours and the fact 2 accs came from surfola (why u'd need to use that when at home at 4am i don't know) but nm.
Oh, and the fact u could NEVER name the '3rd person' even thou u supposidly were friends and worked with him.

I sent you 3 pms asking for evidence list on my email, i never recieved a email. why?

All above has been explained and accounted for, if you wish to investigate us again, please do.
Still, even some of the stuff above is incorrect, so i suggest you actually see trough the logs to find out what i really said.

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Unread 13 Jul 2003, 20:41   #38
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Quote:
Originally posted by XeroX
Ok, enough of this

The point of this post was to try to make you more aware of what you are doing.

You cant just do whatever you'd like because you have the power to, cause there are infact real ppl behind that account name that has worked hard for their achievement.
When i was closed, i was showed no respect what so ever, Mit and MrBrick treated me with nothing but arrogance, and i was lucky to get reopened even tho i didnt cheat, and that is ****ed up.
It's understandable that you're frustrated by what you've been through, but please try and see it our way too.

We get tens of reports a day, and we try to investigate them all. We spend time collecting evidence, then some time filing a report about what we've done with the evidence, then LITERALLY hours arguing with people who've been closed. Now they're not all as finely cut as your case, a lot of these are blatant cheats that have been reported and closed, yet they still continue to argue that they're innocent. After day after day of this, we tend to get a little tired of it. That's why the hunters may have been short tempered with you, especially if there was evidence to suggest you may have been cheating (that was later disproved by Spinner, it seems in this case).

We honestly don't just close people for the hell of it. We do respect people who play the game properly, that's why we bother doing this unpaid job at all. Unfortunately there will always be mistakes, we just have to try not to make them again. You have obviously been involved in such a mistake, and we apologise for that.
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Unread 13 Jul 2003, 20:42   #39
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Re: Why planetarion never will regain its reputation and glory

Quote:
Originally posted by XeroX
Note: This is not a thread regarding Lepauli's closing. [/b]
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heh, it's funny though
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Unread 13 Jul 2003, 20:44   #40
Mit
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Quote:
Originally posted by XeroX
I sent you 3 pms asking for evidence list on my email, i never recieved a email. why?

All above has been explained and accounted for, if you wish to investigate us again, please do.
Still, even some of the stuff above is incorrect, so i suggest you actually see trough the logs to find out what i really said.

This is more than a game, its a lifestyle
You wonder why we get angry... especially when u leave me abusive PMs like that, welcome to my ignore btw.
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Unread 13 Jul 2003, 20:45   #41
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Quote:
Originally posted by XeroX
Ok, enough of this
I concur.

If you wish to talk to either Mit or Mushroom further about this case, contact them on IRC. If you wish to complain about PA Team being incompetent, corrupt, biased or kiddie fiddlers, use one of the many threads on planet closures on AD for it.
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