PA trying to get rid of external tools ?

[Petru]

I think Elysium is just scared of losing their scan database source

[Mit]

Originally posted by Petru
I think Elysium is just scared of losing their scan database source

These scans that aren't used for anything blah blah blah...

[kaos]

Originally posted by Petru
I think Elysium is just scared of losing their scan database source

wow, finally someone got my only intention i was doing that *eg*

[Gerbie]

Ely never attacked me because of my 100 k ion canons...

Like nobody ever forgess a scan to show it to his friends. The TFD scantools were never opened for outsiders use. Simply because the scanbase is too easy to mess up.

[whoop]

Originally posted by Pitchfork
afaik Bayes' Theories were more about probability based upon prior measurements. I'm not quite sure, if it applies to this problem, but it could be worth a try. You'll need a recursive algorithm with lots of dependent and even more explanatory variables though, which is most prolly one hell of a work to code And you'll never gain exact results, but it is better to have something near to the outcome than nothing.

I think it will be a perfect application, and not that hard to code. Won't need to be recursive - someone will have to put up a site where people can post their combat reports.

I think it would be fun. Any alliance intrested in recruiting me ?

-whoop

[Toop]

Originally posted by Petru
I think Elysium is just scared of losing their scan database source

I doubt ely uses the scans parsed on pilkara. It doesn't fit their style, and I think they are good enough to not need cheating like that.

I've always liked pilkara and it would be a shame if it disappeared. Thanks for making it kaos .

[whoop]

Originally posted by Toop
I doubt ely uses the scans parsed on pilkara. It doesn't fit their style, and I think they are good enough to not need cheating like that.

I've always liked pilkara and it would be a shame if it disappeared. Thanks for making it kaos .

If I were running ely, I would.

If you don't want them to have intel, don't give it to them.

Spend 3 minutes parsing your own scans, its _not_ that hard...

-whoop

[kaos]

Originally posted by whoop
If I were running ely, I would.

If you don't want them to have intel, don't give it to them.

Spend 3 minutes parsing your own scans, its _not_ that hard...

-whoop

well, what i always wonder is what crucial info you could get from looking at the scans (well, you could do race stats, thats kinda the only thing i could imagine, and even that i could get way better from just storing the scans we use for attacking every day)
and pilkara has atm 28,655 parsed scans ... makes 3k scans each day. pls tell me any crazy guy who would check 3k scans each day for (well ... what to check anyways ? see above)

[K-W]

ITs also not cheating.

If I were designing the tool I wouldnt use the scans, simply because it would leak and then no one would use a tool I spent a long time working on.

[Stress]

Kaos > most
only thing that would scare me if i where running an alliance. Where in game advantages due to alliance implementation and/or the tools being implimented.

I know 100% certain that after my stay in Elysium, I would newer be content with the tools provided in game. Elysium is blessed with coders. And we are probably spoiled etc...

But if advantages are gicen to alliances using the in game tools and hosting. Where this innformation is not accessable for an outside site. Like all mayor alliance sites. Some of the spirrit dies.
Besides, what alliance would be content not having totall controll of its own entety ? IT would totally reform the alliances and thoughts around them. Atleast that is how I see it. And allso make it to simple. To easy to just make somthing etc, unlike the alliances of today. whom have stayed inn the game, with reasons like. Ive put to much work down to leave this now etc.

I dont think personally that annything in game can match what is made by outside coders. As the need is seen from a far better angle, by alliances and staff of those. SO I doubt sites like pilkara are threatened really.


I guess im ranting now. but i miss ranting on these forums so please bear with me.

Stress

[Gayle29uk]

Originally posted by kaos
well, what i always wonder is what crucial info you could get from looking at the scans (well, you could do race stats, thats kinda the only thing i could imagine, and even that i could get way better from just storing the scans we use for attacking every day)
and pilkara has atm 28,655 parsed scans ... makes 3k scans each day. pls tell me any crazy guy who would check 3k scans each day for (well ... what to check anyways ? see above)

For starters I'd have an analysis of planetary relationships drawn up from news scans. List of known hostiles with 3 fleets out (combined mil/news scan data). Alerts when scans of my own alliance are parsed (someone parses a scan of an alliance planet at 2:30am, news scan it at 3:30am and 4:30am if they're offline)...

The list goes on and on

[pablissimo]

Originally posted by Gayle29uk
For starters I'd have an analysis of planetary relationships drawn up from news scans. List of known hostiles with 3 fleets out (combined mil/news scan data). Alerts when scans of my own alliance are parsed (someone parses a scan of an alliance planet at 2:30am, news scan it at 3:30am and 4:30am if they're offline)...

The list goes on and on

You're rather good at this.

[Heartless]

Originally posted by kaos
well, what i always wonder is what crucial info you could get from looking at the scans (well, you could do race stats, thats kinda the only thing i could imagine, and even that i could get way better from just storing the scans we use for attacking every day)
and pilkara has atm 28,655 parsed scans ... makes 3k scans each day. pls tell me any crazy guy who would check 3k scans each day for (well ... what to check anyways ? see above)

Oh kaos ... come on ... you and me know that you could use the scans for more. Indeed I have had the joy to use your eads sometimes, too. And since you are an excellent coder we both know that it would not be too hard that, when a target galaxy is picked and inserted into eads, eads could easily look up if there are stored scans in the database, and how old they are.

And it damn looks like eads is doing so ... or at least did so in r8.

[Toop]

I've been told EADS has its own scan parsing thing that only members have access to. That might be what you're referring to.

[kaos]

Originally posted by Heartless
Oh kaos ... come on ... you and me know that you could use the scans for more. Indeed I have had the joy to use your eads sometimes, too. And since you are an excellent coder we both know that it would not be too hard that, when a target galaxy is picked and inserted into eads, eads could easily look up if there are stored scans in the database, and how old they are.

And it damn looks like eads is doing so ... or at least did so in r8.

eads used (to bored to put this in again) scans from pilkara.
but only scans which where pasted thru the internal pilkara (so we could trust them, and not for attacks as well, only for def purpose).
and why should we use any scans we can not trust ? thats just ridiculous. And about r8: i was a scanner that time and i scanned 3 gals every night, and if you really think that such a thing would be usefull, then you clearly have no clue what scans in pilkara are
(current stats:
2451 battlereport
11383 military
15350 news
134 pds
2144 sector
1111 unit
)
and i doubt that there are more than 10 recent scans which you could use for attacking.

good riddens to ely spyware

[Mong]

Originally posted by kaos
From the recent news, some personal talks and some rumors it seems that one of the aims for Round 10 seems to be to kill off external tools (either private or public).

[... blah blah ...]

All this lets me really see this game finally losing its old community it once had.

"Personal talk"
"Rumours"
"Seems that"

Nice to see the practice of scaremongering, whining, and general petulance is alive and well!

M.

[Heartless]

Originally posted by kaos
eads used (to bored to put this in again) scans from pilkara.
but only scans which where pasted thru the internal pilkara (so we could trust them, and not for attacks as well, only for def purpose).
and why should we use any scans we can not trust ? thats just ridiculous. And about r8: i was a scanner that time and i scanned 3 gals every night, and if you really think that such a thing would be usefull, then you clearly have no clue what scans in pilkara are
(current stats:
2451 battlereport
11383 military
15350 news
134 pds
2144 sector
1111 unit
)
and i doubt that there are more than 10 recent scans which you could use for attacking.

Whatever internal or external Pilkara parsed scans are used, it is not hard to implement both ways and you know as good me that there are usually no fake scans to be parsed ... and as I said, with checking the time when the scan was made you can always decide whether you want to rescan a planet or not.

So for me, who is not a Pilkara coder, I assume that parsed scans - no matter if internal or external pilkara parser - are used for attacks / intelligence, too - even if not every single scan.

But ok, ofc I would never admit that Pilkara parsed scans would do it, an intel source would fall away. Therefore I end my participation in this discussion again, as only the original source code would give an 100% definate answer ... and only the ely coding team (which is a good team) can view it... sad to see them calling pa to try to destroy such a great site.

[Mong]

Oh and I forgot to say (in regards to this thread and it's subject):

OLD

M.

[Mong]

I have an idea!

Why don't Mit and Kaos get together and make a kickass system for PA, that everybody can be satisified with?

Or am I just a fluffy idealist?

M.

[kaos]

Originally posted by Heartless
Whatever internal or external Pilkara parsed scans are used, it is not hard to implement both ways and you know as good me that there are usually no fake scans to be parsed ... and as I said, with checking the time when the scan was made you can always decide whether you want to rescan a planet or not.

So for me, who is not a Pilkara coder, I assume that parsed scans - no matter if internal or external pilkara parser - are used for attacks / intelligence, too - even if not every single scan.

But ok, ofc I would never admit that Pilkara parsed scans would do it, an intel source would fall away. Therefore I end my participation in this discussion again, as only the original source code would give an 100% definate answer ... and only the ely coding team (which is a good team) can view it... sad to see them calling pa to try to destroy such a great site.

lol, now it really gets funny.
so lets say we would do it that way: we would have to tell all our bc how to access etc. if it would be really that way, why hasn't it been leaked by now then ? well i guess, because all those accusions are not true

you can say what you want, i know what is happening 'behind the scenes' and i am tired of discussing that **** now

btw: everyone talking of a coding team doing pilkara: i do this alone. every coder of ely has his special subject and pilkara is mine (just wanted to clear this, as it seems that _everyone_ thinks that more ppl do pilkara)

[kaos]

Originally posted by Mong
I have an idea!

Why don't Mit and Kaos get together and make a kickass system for PA, that everybody can be satisified with?

Or am I just a fluffy idealist?

M.

iirc this already has been suggested, i wasn't reluctant, so if now someone wanna do that (well, i guess as official thing, because as unofficial i already got my thing :]) you can drop me a mail/pm/whatever every time

[Woodeh]

Originally posted by Toop
I doubt ely uses the scans parsed on pilkara. It doesn't fit their style, and I think they are good enough to not need cheating like that.

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Heh

[King]

Uhh store scans ingame if ur right GREAT impossible for a bcalc is CRAP as the game has to calc it. If they decide not to release forumla's good it will make it that more challenging and change it from a giant calculator to a GAME.

[MAdnRisKy]

Originally posted by Mit
Don't tell me, when races were introduced, u knew EXACTLY how they all worked right from the start... used calcs straight out of protection etc... if so, BORING is one polite word to describe u.

Mit I knew

though i don't often use calcs anyway unless I want to satisfy which ever ungrateful peon it is today that i've just done his defence for, since it's not hard to do in your head.

but yes, I;m probably the biggest saddo in PA when it comes to the ship stats anaylsis. sad bit is, the rnd 10 changes do NOT have me excited, far from it, cos i;m getting lazy now, and i don't want to do another rnd6 :/

[G.K Zhukov]

kaos, do you deny that some are using pilkara for intel?

[-o|DarkJedi|o-]

Originally posted by kaos


4. Ingame alliances:
Well, the info i could get makes me feel kinda mad. As far as i got all correct they want to put _every_ aspect of an ally into the game like memberlists, defece stats, etc blabla

[/b]

about fking time too

[whoop]

Originally posted by G.K Zhukov
kaos, do you deny that some are using pilkara for intel?

If thats the case do you honestly expect him to admit it ? Pilkara is an absolutely wonderful intel gathering device.

If Elysium didn't use it, then I would have to say that they are stupider than a pack of retarded baboons.

OF COURSE they are using it, they would be stupid not to, and OF COURSE they are going to deny using it - this is a WAR game. You don't tell the enemy where your spies are, thats just stupid.

/me rollseyes...

Its a WAR game people. As long as you don't break the rules of the game itself, all tactics are valid.

Not to go off tangent, but this is the same reason the British got owned by the American Militiamen. Unlike the British, the American militia didn't line up and march to Battle three deep, with drummers and flag bearers, the way the British did.

Instead they hid in trees and lay on the ground and whacked them. The British called them 'cowardly' and accused them of not using valid war tactics. And guess what - the Militiamen were critical in battle and the British lost.

Ironically enough, the United States in turn got whacked by the VietCong who also fought 'dirty'.

War Game, War Game, War Game, War Game, War Game, War Game.

Get it ?

-whoop

[G.K Zhukov]

Originally posted by whoop
If thats the case do you honestly expect him to admit it ? Pilkara is an absolutely wonderful intel gathering device.

If Elysium didn't use it, then I would have to say that they are stupider than a pack of retarded baboons.

OF COURSE they are using it, they would be stupid not to, and OF COURSE they are going to deny using it - this is a WAR game. You don't tell the enemy where your spies are, thats just stupid.

/me rollseyes...

Its a WAR game people. As long as you don't break the rules of the game itself, all tactics are valid.

Not to go off tangent, but this is the same reason the British got owned by the American Militiamen. Unlike the British, the American militia didn't line up and march to Battle three deep, with drummers and flag bearers, the way the British did.

Instead they hid in trees and lay on the ground and whacked them. The British called them 'cowardly' and accused them of not using valid war tactics. And guess what - the Militiamen were critical in battle and the British lost.

Ironically enough, the United States in turn got whacked by the VietCong who also fought 'dirty'.

War Game, War Game, War Game, War Game, War Game, War Game.

Get it ?

-whoop

I just wanted to see if Kaos would lie. You damn fool spoiled it

Originally posted by whoop
If Elysium didn't use it, then I would have to say that they are stupider than a pack of retarded baboons.

yes,god forbid.
Everyone has to be sad phatetic loosers who live for planetarion.

Originally posted by whoop
Its a WAR game people....

a game is what it is, so stop beeing so stuck up on it and grab yourself a life.