Pro's/Con's of Alliances Operating Primarily on Netgamers IRC?

[Chaos]

Originally posted by Jester
It's hard when you're being such a ****ing retard.

guess there isn't any point in posting anything more here.

[Zahadum]

lol and thats pa.

[KoRnNut]

Originally posted by Zahadum
lol and thats pa.

heh, yep.

[Heartless]

Originally posted by Hicks
Pfft I bet you believed it You believed us and the super friends in Legion were destroying your game round after round.

Considering the fact that for new players it was almost impossible to join Fury, Legion or any other major alliance "you" and your super friends were destroying the game.

[Fifth_teletubbie]

Originally posted by Heartless
Considering the fact that for new players it was almost impossible to join Fury, Legion or any other major alliance "you" and your super friends were destroying the game.

That's not quite true.
Anyone starting PA would typically have 1 'learning' round in which they learned how to play the game and use IRC etcetera, and the following round they'd stand a decent chance of joining at least a training alliance for one of the major alliances. Whether they are good enough to succeed there is of course another matter.

If the 'elite' alliances just let in any newbie straight away they wouldnt remain elite for very long would they?
But I would hardly characterize either Fury or Legion as 'almost impossible' to join. The onyl alliance I can think of that would qualify as such was LDK for non-lithuanians.

[KoRnNut]

Originally posted by Fifth_teletubbie
That's not quite true.
Anyone starting PA would typically have 1 'learning' round in which they learned how to play the game and use IRC etcetera, and the following round they'd stand a decent chance of joining at least a training alliance for one of the major alliances. Whether they are good enough to succeed there is of course another matter.

If the 'elite' alliances just let in any newbie straight away they wouldnt remain elite for very long would they?
But I would hardly characterize either Fury or Legion as 'almost impossible' to join. The onyl alliance I can think of that would qualify as such was LDK for non-lithuanians.

Yep. I started R2 as a n00b and had game figured out pretty good by the end of that round. Spent Round 3 trying to figure out the world of PA Alliance Politics, some will argue asbeing 10X harder than figuring out the actual mechanics of the game heh. By the end of Round 4 I was asked to help run an alliance, which I accepted.

Maybe new players lose interest in the game because they don't particularly like the game enough to try and get better at it or to tamper with the politics.

[Jester]

*unstuck* I hope it's been informative.

Jester

[Dingo]

Originally posted by Fifth_teletubbie
But I would hardly characterize either Fury or Legion as 'almost impossible' to join. The onyl alliance I can think of that would qualify as such was LDK for non-lithuanians.

Legion in round 3 was harder to get into than fort knox or my first girlfriend. Recruiting was rarely open and even when it was, getting nominated and then the necessary vouches was a truly difficult task.

[Fifth_teletubbie]

Originally posted by Dingo
Legion in round 3 was harder to get into than fort knox or my first girlfriend. Recruiting was rarely open and even when it was, getting nominated and then the necessary vouches was a truly difficult task.

Difficult yes, but not impossible. Some of my C-mates in r3 managed it, although being in C32r with Biggdogg and Crywolf probably helped in that regard..
And it got a lot easier to join Fury or Legion later on, Legion more so than Fury (a full round in Wrath was mandatory, whereas time spent in VeA/Illiad/whatever was variable and not applied to everyone).

[Dingo]

VeA/Illiad were after my time spent in Legion. It obviously went downhill after that time.

Rev and I were no longer welcome after certain events in round 4 relating to Legion's lack of any ethics and NoS HC's refusal to bend over to Legion HC.

[Fifth_teletubbie]

Originally posted by Dingo
VeA/Illiad were after my time spent in Legion. It obviously went downhill after that time.

Heh. Apres toi la deluge?

Originally posted by Dingo

Rev and I were no longer welcome after certain events in round 4 relating to Legion's lack of any ethics and NoS HC's refusal to bend over to Legion HC.

I know, I was actually in NoS at the time

[Chax]

r3

I was once sitting in a channel talking to 2 friends. It wasn't a permanent channel, I just did a /join #channelname and I was there with ops. We made this temp channel just to have a private conversation about something so as not to bore everyone in #virus with what they considered nonsense. The channel wasn't keyd.

Suddenly in comes Hobbie and another Legion fellow to take the piss. And then when we ask them to leave somehow they gain ops and start kicking us out.

Had we been discussing important issues rather than just chatting about nonsense I might have been really mad at the irc oppers.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

r9

We all know that clusters and parallels are nice to keep track of, so when r9 started I joined with my real nick all the channels #p1a, #p2a ...... #p10a. I managed to get ops in 9 of them because I was first in. After hanging in them for a few hours suddenly I'm booted from netgamers for being in all the parachannels.

Now this was highly aggravating. How is it for netgamers irc oppers to decide who is and who isn't allowed to hang in channels? An organized alliance easily dedicates 1 person to each para channel to gather info and the residents of that channel know not that the person is there solely for that reason. Whereas I was in all 10, easily identifyable for what I was doing and I get booted. Nothing in the netgamers rules say I can't be in those channels. So why was I booted?

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Conclusion:
the irc opers help their friends by performing tricks for them
they aren't to be trusted.

[Ditcher]

Perhaps set +s when having private chitchat with friends....

[Mit]

Originally posted by Chax
<snip>

I can't comment on back in Rnd 3, as i was an IRC n00b back then and didn't really use it. But things have changed, Opers have changed since then, New ones come along etc. From a quick scan of the current opers in teh channel, i can name 4 that would play (not saying all of them do) and tehy don't play seriously so they aren't out to 'gain advantage' or anything, and they won't do 'favours for friends'. ur channel is ur channel, and unless ur breaking rules etc, they won't just join for the hell of it.

As for being kicked in rnd 9 for being in ALL parallel channels, perhaps someone saw this and knew u couldn't be in all at once, and the ACTUAL people in the parallels complained at wanting ops or something, i don't know, i don't remember seeing anything going on odd at the start of the round. Got booted as in /kill'd ? if so, i'd like to see the reason.

[WipeOut]

Originally posted by Chax
.....

I do have some of these odd stories myself, and in the past,
witnessed opers abusing their powers on netgamers to do friends 'favours'. Out of personal experience with the current cservice team however, I must say that their service is of an extraordinary kind, and they seem to be working their arses off to provide us a secure network to chat on.

Sure there will always be some of them making mistakes and abusing powers, but in general, I think they are a great, friendly and most of all: helpfull.

[BLACK_OPPS]

ok to cut the total BS i have read on this threat to end all BS threads

1 NETGAMERS is a Undernet nock off uses IRCU and Gnuworld same as Undernet alltho there are diffrences the NG teck staff have made minor mods to it if you wish to try this deamon you can download the NG version from HERE

gnuworld can be downloaded fromHERE

neither Gnuworld or IRCU have spying capablitys
can speak from experiance as my self and Keith run a irc network useing same setup irc.tecked.net witch is a public network simular to netgamers

mythys around "oper powers" on NG
if you knew what you were talking about then you would have had the common sence to open up the NG ircd and inspect it first before you stared this convo sure if you asked JeeKay nicely he would let you take a look at the NG gnuworld source also to inspect for spying commands etc if you so wish

reasons why alliances run Private networks
1. Grater control over members
2. better tools than NG could provide
3. grater security
4. Grater intergation with forums portals etc
5. Ablity to set own AUP [ Aceptable user policy]

these grately depend on your teckie

BS reasons why alliances use Private servers
1. Hcs like to play god
2. NG opers spy

Truths about Private networks
Most private networks are pointless unless you have a good teckie you have no clear benifits over a public network i could do a top 10 name and shame of realy quite **** public networks but i have better things to do with my time

ircds like Unreal Ultimate are open to abuse rather alot more than ircds like Ircu witch NG runs most alliances around run either Unreal or Ultimate you can do rather intrestinting things if you know what your doing with these they dont log pms unless recoded alltho you have intresting commands like +I [invisible for the idiots] witch allouws opers to enter channels unseen and all channels are visible on /list

most good teckies will do quite extensive recodeing most ****e teckies will leave do fck all

bottom line is Private servers arnt worth the money spent on them unless you have 3 things
1. Good Teckies
2. Good infascture [ servers / conection ]
3. GOOD CODEING

you have rather alot of wannbie teckies floating around PA who will set you up a standerd unreal and a standerd set of some ****e services like Epona a VB forum and call them selves Teckies

quick note to Rumad YOU HAVE NEVER USED IRCU JOHN OPERS CANT SEE +s channels on it thats Unreal and Ultimate

i would have to agree with Jester here irc servers are good if you have a good teckie otherwise there a waste of time and your kidding your self if you actualy think you can base clear benfits if you teckie is a moron

i would say to Zeus his comments on there is No way for P to moniitor channels is stretching it a bit Gnuworld could be coded to port but dont as standerd


PBOT and Evilroid could spy yes i cant comment on there actions in past events


also a note to Rumad in rnd 5 Furynet was down because of a box isues had nothing to do with dosing had me and Jung sitting in #help on legion net talking about the cituation


final statement
if you want to be a teckie learn wtf your talking about to the people who posted on there suposided knolage of teck dont give up your day job

NG is set up as a private network and lacks the control of there members like a private network

Private networks are only as good as there teckie trust me there are discrasefull networks that alliances claim are good out there


enought for my daly troll
if any teckies out there want to have a look at my work for compairson gimme a pm

[BLACK_OPPS]

Originally posted by ComradeRob
The best example I can think of is limiting people to access from certain hosts. For example, limiting a user to only being able to log in from *.btinternet.com (home) and a work IP/host also. If someone attempts to log in as this user from another host, they will be blocked. Such a security measure is impossible with P. Admittedly it's a rather paranoid feature, but it does illustrate the fact that there is more flexibility when coding your own services (or running third-party services designed with heavy security in mind) than using P. Whether alliances actually need these features is another matter altogether.

lol come look at my work if you wish to see paranoid i recoded a entire set of serviecs and ircd evan changed the db back end to keep ****s out heh

would honestly have to agree with jester on here your private server is only as good as your teckie and no matter how mutch you code there will allways be the problem of people talking and spying

i persnally wouldent give up my private network for NG as it lacks the intergration and the ease of adminstiration
i run both private and public networks useing 2 very diffrent sets of ircd and services so can say i have seen the benfits of both

[Tweakster]

Originally posted by BLACK_OPPS


..etc..

reasons why alliances run Private networks
1. Grater control over members
2. better tools than NG could provide
3. grater security
4. Grater intergation with forums portals etc
5. Ablity to set own AUP [ Aceptable user policy]

these grately depend on your teckie

BS reasons why alliances use Private servers
1. Hcs like to play god
2. NG opers spy

..etc..

I am going to have to disagree a bit and say you can add both those columns together, under reasons why alliances run private networks. You can also add the greater ability to montior their members, rather admitidly or not, through internal spying etc. With that said, I don't see anything wrong with that and feel large scale alliances should run thier own servers, services, and web/forums.

Security is just a matter of who put the whole package together. I have seen a few major alliances with some really shotty mods and/or out-dated-and-exploitable IRCd (and Forums, even administration panels -hello phpMyAdmin) versions. I have also seen some amazing things added on private networks which do an extreme amount of good for the alliance.

Bottom line is, netgamers may be a safer and easier way to go, but it sure is less fun for the techies who are out of real life work and bored as piss :-)

[Cicada]

Originally posted by Dingo
Legion in round 3 was harder to get into than fort knox or my first girlfriend. Recruiting was rarely open and even when it was, getting nominated and then the necessary vouches was a truly difficult task.

Dominion was in full operation by the end of r3...

early round 3 yes..it was pratically impossible

[ParraCida]

Because P was always down.
Because PA IRC ops were not to be trusted.
Because it provides a sense of identity.
Because it is easier to control members (linking IRC to forums).
Because it is cool to have.

First 2 reasons are no longer in effect.

[G.K Zhukov]

LENIN

Your english is REALLY BAD.