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Unread 9 Jun 2011, 13:33   #1
[DDK]gm
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Changes to PA

With the new page tokens you can no longer:
* Have a window open to jpg yourself and another with the recall button when you are checking for FC.
* Press back to resubmit any form like launch and eta or funds exchange or scan.

Post any others you find, its a pain in the ass but best to know now!

PA no longer supports tabbed browsing
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Unread 9 Jun 2011, 13:39   #2
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Re: Changes to PA

does this affect DC's who have defense page open and scans page in the other tab?
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Unread 9 Jun 2011, 13:45   #3
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Re: Changes to PA

doesn't affect the scans page or defense page apparently, probably due to the token being removed from the scans page thanks to the mass complaints!
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Unread 9 Jun 2011, 13:46   #4
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Re: Changes to PA

<Cin[Away]> among thigns we needed to stop doublesubmitting of forms, it has been causing issues for more than 20 rounds, ppl were using that to cheat as well, the tokens prevent it

Causing what issues? Exploiting how? That kind of justification is unsubstantiated and dimissive and considering the implications this can have on the way people are playing PA you should be a bit more respectful whilst shitting over everybody.

Another useless addition to a shit game.
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Unread 9 Jun 2011, 13:47   #5
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Re: Changes to PA

does this mean if i have one page open with the coords entered and 'attack' ready to be clicked ... then in another tab I have a scan entered and being done. I wont be able to go tot he other tab and launch the fleet without re loading? Or what exactly does this mean?
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Unread 9 Jun 2011, 13:52   #6
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Re: Changes to PA

scans page was removed from the system, i think what it meens is:

if i have one page open with the coords entered and 'attack' ready to be clicked ... then in another tab I do anything else other than scans and defence I get this when i click launch:

Invalid action request. This could be a result of your request having expired, double submitting the form or hitting back in your browser and resubmitting an old page/form
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Unread 9 Jun 2011, 13:55   #7
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Re: Changes to PA

yes, you described it exactly magical one
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Unread 9 Jun 2011, 14:13   #8
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Re: Changes to PA

is there any way to prevent PA crew from making any non stat related changes to the game? cause so far we are movign backwards ...

or maybe they could 'test' these things ... or ask the paying community ... ya know ... if they want things like that. Or put in some of the real improvements the average player is concerned about (gal def pages being similar to ally def pages) ... unless this 20 rounds of cheating has been THAT serious.
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Unread 9 Jun 2011, 14:37   #9
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Re: Changes to PA

If the "problem" and the "cheating" have been there for 20 rounds they should have implemented the "cheating" in the game so everyone could use it
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Unread 9 Jun 2011, 14:43   #10
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Re: Changes to PA

I want to know what PA is going to do about Fizz cheating to be able to post that image ... maybe some sort of tokens to not let him false post his count up to 15.
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Unread 9 Jun 2011, 14:44   #11
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Re: Changes to PA

maybe it will help MH do their job!!

is there a sarcastic smiley?
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Unread 9 Jun 2011, 14:48   #12
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Re: Changes to PA

Yes
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Unread 9 Jun 2011, 16:14   #13
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Re: Changes to PA

what i dont understand is the fact that someone has spent time and energy on something without any thought for how it will impact the 99.9999% of the playerbase who have no idea about how you would use it to cheat.
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Unread 9 Jun 2011, 18:16   #14
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Re: Changes to PA

Quote:
Originally Posted by t3k View Post
<Cin[Away]> among thigns we needed to stop doublesubmitting of forms, it has been causing issues for more than 20 rounds, ppl were using that to cheat as well, the tokens prevent it
Translation: we can't be arsed to validate all user input server-side.
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Unread 9 Jun 2011, 18:43   #15
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Re: Changes to PA

lol
so the only changes made to the game now make the game even more complicated?

Good God, you really want PA to die right?
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Unread 9 Jun 2011, 19:11   #16
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Re: Changes to PA

Quote:
PA no longer supports tabbed browsing
That is truly outrageous.
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Unread 9 Jun 2011, 20:44   #17
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Re: Changes to PA

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeyi View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by [DDK
gm]PA no longer supports tabbed browsing
That is truly outrageous.
I know! I've heard some statements in my time, but with that lack of quantification, I think the only thing I can call it is slander. The main issue would generally be the scans one, and that has been resolved. There have been all sorts of untrue rumours surrounding this particular page - after many objections were raised (lead, I believe, by mPulse and #scans) - the PA Team discussed the issue and decided unanimously to revert it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk
Quote:
Originally Posted by t3k
<Cin[Away]> among thigns we needed to stop doublesubmitting of forms, it has been causing issues for more than 20 rounds, ppl were using that to cheat as well, the tokens prevent it
Translation: we can't be arsed to validate all user input server-side.
we have quite a hefty amount of user input server-side, tbqfh. However, even with planet-specific locks on key actions, we're still hitting some problems. This includes the mysterious "double recall" issue with fleets, which is brought to our attention almost every round and has withstood every attempt to resolve it.
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Unread 10 Jun 2011, 06:57   #18
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Re: Changes to PA

Quote:
Originally Posted by Appocomaster View Post
we have quite a hefty amount of user input server-side, tbqfh. However, even with planet-specific locks on key actions, we're still hitting some problems. This includes the mysterious "double recall" issue with fleets, which is brought to our attention almost every round and has withstood every attempt to resolve it.
I have never actually seen any of the PA code, nor heard of the double-recall issue, but I'm having a bit of trouble imaginging how a problem like that could be hard to fix.
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Unread 10 Jun 2011, 12:48   #19
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Re: Changes to PA

A bit of guesswork here, but for what it's worth:
The thing is, these things happen in parallel on the server.
There are usually two ways to deal with this that actually works.

Manual locks 1 & 2, or a table-lock!
I assume you refer to one of them, when you say "planet-specific locks", you mean something like this:
select locked from planet_table where user_id=100
if (locked==0) {
# lock it
update planet_table set locked=1 where user_id=100
# Do stuff here
# Recall fleet / whatever....

# Unlock it
update planet_table set locked=0 where user_id=100
}

If this is how you do it, it is the wrong way. Two parallel requests can both do the select at the same time, and both will regard it as unlocked.

A better way to do it is ofc something more like this: (what I prefer anyway)
update planet_table set locked=1 where user_id=100 and locked=0
Then you check hwo many rows were affected, which is stored in the statement-handle (assuming you still use perl + DBI:
my $sth = $dbh->prepare("update planet_table set locked=1 where user_id=100 and locked=0");
$sth->execute();
my $affected_rows=$sth->rows;

Now you can run the check, and proceed like before:
if ($affected_rows==1) {
# Do stuff here
# Recall fleet / whatever....

# Unlock it
update planet_table set locked=0 where user_id=100
}
And voila.

Alternatively, you lock down the whole table!
LOCK TABLES planet_tbl WRITE;
# do whatever here, only this handle can access it!
UNLOCK TABLES;

Alternatively, you can take the other approach:

Serializing the web-traffic with minimal congestion-impact:
I assume a server-setup of
1: Webserver -> Database-server
Or, possibly:
2: Frontend-server -> backend-server -> database-server

Now, with the kind of "load" PA will generate with todays low usercount, this is VERY fixable, regardless of setup. Simply remove the parallel setup alltogether, and serialize all web-access. In order to avoid slow connections hanging the setup, you simply install 2 webservers, on different ports (if you have setup #2, you already have 2 webservers and can do this with them instead).

The one catching the requests on port 80, can have any number of simultanous processes / apache children or whatever you use these days. All this one does is to arrange the queue, and "proxy" the requests to the "backend-server" (which might run on, say, port 8080, accepting only connections from the "frontend-server", not directly from the outside ). 2-300 worker-threads should be MORE than plenty for PA on the "frontend", but if you have enough RAM, you can always go higher. I think I have closer to 500 in ManagerLeague.

Then, on the other webserver, the "backend", you set the max number of connections / worker threads / children to 1 and make sure it's a keep-alive connection. This connection will thus always be open between frontend and backend. Then you have a parallel entry-point on the frontend, but you are also guaranteed that any requests coming from web-traffic is handeled one-by-one.
Problem solved.

It's never a good solution to limit how the game is played in stead of fixing the actual problems, it usually comes back and bites you in the rear

Best of luck
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Unread 10 Jun 2011, 12:51   #20
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Re: Changes to PA

Oh, and if you are going for the "serialize all web-access", make sure the "frontend" hosts the static content (images, stylesheets, javascripts), no need to trouble the backend with those. Just let it proxy any perl-requests or based on folder....

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Unread 10 Jun 2011, 13:30   #21
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Re: Changes to PA

Hail to the king, baby.
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Unread 10 Jun 2011, 16:43   #22
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Re: Changes to PA

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spinner View Post
A bit of guesswork here, but for what it's worth:
The thing is, these things happen in parallel on the server.
There are usually two ways to deal with this that actually works.

Manual locks 1 & 2, or a table-lock!
I assume you refer to one of them, when you say "planet-specific locks", you mean something like this:
select locked from planet_table where user_id=100
if (locked==0) {
# lock it
update planet_table set locked=1 where user_id=100
# Do stuff here
# Recall fleet / whatever....

# Unlock it
update planet_table set locked=0 where user_id=100
}

If this is how you do it, it is the wrong way. Two parallel requests can both do the select at the same time, and both will regard it as unlocked.
....

Best of luck
- Spinner
Ironically, this looks to be very much how you wrote all the code originally, iirc.
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Unread 10 Jun 2011, 17:56   #23
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Re: Changes to PA

You're welcome. (-:
So there is some of my code left in the old girl still? (-:
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Unread 10 Jun 2011, 17:59   #24
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Re: Changes to PA

Appocomaster, since I have your attention, and assuming at least YOU have some communication with the owners, is there a specific reason why they have decided to NOT communicate?
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Unread 10 Jun 2011, 18:33   #25
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Re: Changes to PA

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spinner View Post
Appocomaster, since I have your attention, and assuming at least YOU have some communication with the owners, is there a specific reason why they have decided to NOT communicate?
Petition/question seconded
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Unread 10 Jun 2011, 21:43   #26
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Re: Changes to PA

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spinner View Post
Appocomaster, since I have your attention, and assuming at least YOU have some communication with the owners, is there a specific reason why they have decided to NOT communicate?
I remember "Pete Zaborsky" of "too dumb to run pa" from r40. Was a nice planet. And no matter how hard you try you don't get an answer from Jagex.

I wish that Appocomaster at least would put a little more effort/pressure on Jagex to get them working or at least saying something to us since he's the only one who seems to be in touch with Jagex.
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Unread 11 Jun 2011, 23:06   #27
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Re: Changes to PA

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spinner View Post
Appocomaster, since I have your attention, and assuming at least YOU have some communication with the owners, is there a specific reason why they have decided to NOT communicate?
Appoco? Should I assume you are saying "No comment" ?
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Unread 12 Jun 2011, 06:38   #28
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Re: Changes to PA

tbh, I think he doesn´t know, for the very fact that the owners didn´t supply him a reason.

only speculations tho
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Unread 12 Jun 2011, 10:27   #29
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Re: Changes to PA

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Appoco? Should I assume you are saying "No comment" ?
Jagex have put Comical Ali as the press liason for Planetarion.
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Unread 12 Jun 2011, 16:49   #30
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Re: Changes to PA

Apologies,
I am on holiday and not actively checking every thread. I'm in an extremely remote part of Scotland and when it rains it seems to kill my GPRS internet connection.

All of the PA Team have had communication with Jagex in various forms. Unfortunately one of our main contacts is currently on holiday.

I think that Jagex certainly didn't plan to have so little progress after such a time; however, they've been in the news more with other things that they've committed to release / finish / etc. Planetarion isn't officially announced, so they have less pressure to focus on it at the moment. They have made some plans, but nothing has pushed much beyond that. Having worked with them, we've bought in the single account system, which we will hope to build on to give users round profiles. We can also look to retrospectively try and add historic records, but that may be more problematic.

I have some reason to believe that there may be more interest on their side in the near future, but nothing concrete. They are unlike zPeti, who paid some attention and then gave up and just let the PA Team run it and make a profit. I have no doubts that in the mind of Jagex, they still have the best of intentions for the game.
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Unread 12 Jun 2011, 22:15   #31
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Re: Changes to PA

Translation: Jagex have done **** all and intend to continue doing **** all for the forseeable future. Ps. we changed the login system.
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Unread 13 Jun 2011, 14:14   #32
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Re: Changes to PA

Thanks for the response, even though it didn't answer my question. Yet still, it kind of does.
Thanks though! Have a fun holiday!!

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Unread 13 Jun 2011, 16:10   #33
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Re: Changes to PA

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They are unlike zPeti, who paid some attention and then gave up and just let the PA Team run it and make a profit. I have no doubts that in the mind of Jagex, they still have the best of intentions for the game.
For me Jagex is even worse than zPeti who at least showed up and took some heavy fire from the community. All we heard from Jagex so far is "you belong to us now" in a very brief forum post.
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Unread 13 Jun 2011, 16:29   #34
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Re: Changes to PA

Im starting to think appoco is playing the battered wife role with the big black eye that say "Jagex is a good man."

Jagex get the finger out because I'm not convinced
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Unread 13 Jun 2011, 17:00   #35
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Re: Changes to PA

i am convinced, convinced that they are as useless as everyone feared.
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Unread 13 Jun 2011, 21:22   #36
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Re: Changes to PA

What "bothers" me, as much as I can be "bothered" by this, is not that they have not yet made PA part of their bigger portal. It doesn't even puzzle me. Frankly put, PA is in no shape to go on there, and doesn't deserve to be there.
What I find strange is that they would buy it, and then not allocate the required resources to actually do something about it. Not even the resources to show themselves in public, either here on the forums or anywhere else.
And it sorts of points out a course of non-action...No effort being put into marketing of the game, and no effort put into a revitalisation / revival when it comes to development, hence the game is not ready to be marketed at all...And so on...

It just doesn't make any sense to me, and I don't like it when things do not make kind of sense...Makes me feel there must be some other reason that I have yet to understand..I just don't get what it could be, with them doing nothing for a year...

Strange indeed!
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Unread 13 Jun 2011, 23:16   #37
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Re: Changes to PA

Spinner stop talking and work on your game, we want to migrate there

Now back to work!
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Unread 15 Jun 2011, 03:58   #38
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Re: Changes to PA

Permission to blow up jagex hq if pa dies I'm being serious very easy to make explosives now a days, it hurts me more and more each round that nothing is done.

Yeah we have spinners game that looks great but it will never be pa not that he wants it to be pa.

Pa means more to me then everything but my kids, if it wasn't for the pa community I'd be dead now as someone in the pa community from Norway contacted the police in England where I was living at that time when I attempted suicide and the police stopped me for this reason I will never turn my back on pa or its community.

I just want to see some changes I don't care how small any change is a move in the right direction the pa community which is the driving force of pa have offered many good changes but there not even being considered.
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Unread 15 Jun 2011, 08:30   #39
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Re: Changes to PA

You desperately need to seek professional help.
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Unread 15 Jun 2011, 10:56   #40
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Re: Changes to PA

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You desperately need to seek professional help.
And you think this was a good answer?

...

I'm sure he already got that help you was joking about and even if not please be polite and a little sensitive. PA ain't just joking and mocking it's also connected to some extreme personal experiences.
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Unread 15 Jun 2011, 11:41   #41
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Re: Changes to PA

Get a grip, it's a game.

(Do you rate your cheating galaxy as an "extreme experience" btw?)
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Unread 15 Jun 2011, 12:58   #42
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Re: Changes to PA

PA is dead.

Its not dying. Its dead.
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Unread 15 Jun 2011, 13:08   #43
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Re: Changes to PA

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PA ain't just joking and mocking it's also connected to some extreme personal experiences.
No, IRC is connected to some personal experiences, friendships etc. PA is the background noise over which the community happened.
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Unread 15 Jun 2011, 17:35   #44
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Re: Changes to PA

One might say "the corpse is cooling".
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Unread 15 Jun 2011, 18:08   #45
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Re: Changes to PA

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Get a grip, it's a game.

(Do you rate your cheating galaxy as an "extreme experience" btw?)
lol yes that was hilarious! We crashed the game which was an awesome experience.. How many of us players can say that?

and btw: Your annoying attempt of trolling is cute.
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Unread 15 Jun 2011, 18:53   #46
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Re: Changes to PA

I find it amusing as unlike some players I bring new players to pa every round some old pa some new to pa but players with attitudes like Shev are the reason players don't stick around.

One thing I've learned in my gaming experiences is if a community is nice more players play the game if you have loads of pricks a game loses players.

Everyone wonders why I'm always so nice to people why I upgrade minimum of 15 planets a round simple abit of kindness to the players who are new or need abit of help keeps the game from dying.

Players who persist in slagging off the game are no good for the game go play something else if you aren't happy if your life is so meaningless that you play pa just to cause trouble you really have sad existences.

Yeah I'm not happy with jagex and I wish they would work on this game but at the end of the day it's atleast still pa.

On a side note JBG is correct it's the community who helped me and it's the community why I still play but the community derived from the game pa so it's just as important as the community itself as without the game there is no community.

Many players have said if pa dies they won't play another online browser game so all you people who saying we going to spinners game most the community isnt I will as I like spinner and I'll stand by him regardless.

This boils down to the simple thing the community is still here for the game and for the friendships of pa on irc I say this as atleast 20 players have told me if I didn't play pa they wouldn't bother either.
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Unread 15 Jun 2011, 20:16   #47
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Re: Changes to PA

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I find it amusing as unlike some players I bring new players to pa every round some old pa some new to pa but players with attitudes like Shev are the reason players don't stick around.
Personally I'd say idiots on the forums saying they are going to bomb the game owners might put off more people than it attracts....
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Unread 15 Jun 2011, 21:39   #48
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Re: Changes to PA

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lol yes that was hilarious! We crashed the game which was an awesome experience.. How many of us players can say that?
Thats not something to be proud of btw.
Especially when the majority of the community thought you / your galmates were a bunch of fannies for closing the game for a day.
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Unread 15 Jun 2011, 22:12   #49
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Re: Changes to PA

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Thats not something to be proud of btw.
Especially when the majority of the community thought you / your galmates were a bunch of fannies for closing the game for a day.
Oh yea and we feel very bad about it.

But the fact you guys still consider it as cheating and that you didnt forget this even after 2 years amuses me in two different ways.

Feel free to whine more about your lost day.
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Unread 16 Jun 2011, 09:33   #50
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Re: Changes to PA

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Oh yea and we feel very bad about it.

But the fact you guys still consider it as cheating and that you didnt forget this even after 2 years amuses me in two different ways.

Feel free to whine more about your lost day.
http://pirate.planetarion.com/showthread.php?t=198743

There is testing and there is abuse refer to the above link for your own reference.
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