User Name
Password

Go Back   Planetarion Forums > Non Planetarion Discussions > General Discussions

Reply
Thread Tools Display Modes
Unread 6 Jun 2005, 10:15   #1
Perle
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 329
Perle is infamous around these partsPerle is infamous around these partsPerle is infamous around these parts
Thumbs up United kingdon and the EU

I always thought that the eurosceptical people in the United kingdom were just nationalistic chauvinist who didnt want the th EU and the Euro because of their ungrounded fears of the unknown and their false national pride.

It turns out : I WAS TERRIBLY WROOOOOONG.


The EURO sucks heavily, the european union is ruining the lives of millions of people in western europe.
Eurosceptics in the united kingdom, u were right. The euro is a desaster!!!

it has lead to major economical prolems. We have had practically no economical growth in germany and france since 2002, the prices have exploded(despite what our government is telling us with their forged inflation statistics.)

the 10 new EU-Members are a desaster to the economy. In germany we already have over 100000 people jobless due to it. Their jobs have been replaced by cheap workers from poland and the chech republic who work for 2 or 3 euro/hour. And our politicians tell us that they cant do anything about it.
It is globalisation, People!!!!!

Euro sucks, EU sucks!!!

Had we only listened to you!!!!!
__________________
"Security is the essential roadblock to achieving the road map to peace."
--George W. Bush, July 25, 2003

Mankind is ready to enter the solar system
George W. Bush, in his speech about his space program
Perle is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 6 Jun 2005, 10:19   #2
Nantoz
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 226
Nantoz has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nantoz has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nantoz has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nantoz has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nantoz has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nantoz has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nantoz has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nantoz has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nantoz has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nantoz has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nantoz has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: United kingdon and the EU

Didn't you use to pretend you weren't from Germany, although everyone knew it anyways?

And spelling headlines right is a good start.
Nantoz is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 6 Jun 2005, 10:21   #3
Phang
Aardvark is a funny word
 
Phang's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: I'm No Nino Rota
Posts: 5,923
Phang has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Phang has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Phang has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Phang has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Phang has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Phang has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Phang has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Phang has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Phang has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Phang has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Phang has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: United kingdon and the EU

oh, other countries, what WON'T people blame global recession on
__________________
Efficiency, efficiency they say
Get to know the date and tell the time of day
As the crowds begin complaining
How the Beaujolais is raining
Down on darkened meetings on the Champs Élysées
Phang is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 6 Jun 2005, 10:28   #4
wu_trax
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,290
wu_trax is a pillar of this Internet societywu_trax is a pillar of this Internet societywu_trax is a pillar of this Internet societywu_trax is a pillar of this Internet societywu_trax is a pillar of this Internet societywu_trax is a pillar of this Internet societywu_trax is a pillar of this Internet societywu_trax is a pillar of this Internet societywu_trax is a pillar of this Internet societywu_trax is a pillar of this Internet societywu_trax is a pillar of this Internet society
Re: United kingdon and the EU

is this some poor attempt of sarcasm or are you really serious?
__________________
im not tolerant, i just dont care.
wu_trax is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 6 Jun 2005, 10:41   #5
KoeN
Lucky
Helicopter Champion
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: -
Posts: 3,830
KoeN has a brilliant futureKoeN has a brilliant futureKoeN has a brilliant futureKoeN has a brilliant futureKoeN has a brilliant futureKoeN has a brilliant futureKoeN has a brilliant futureKoeN has a brilliant futureKoeN has a brilliant futureKoeN has a brilliant futureKoeN has a brilliant future
Re: United kingdon and the EU

Quote:
Originally Posted by Perle
The euro is a desaster!!!
no?
KoeN is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 6 Jun 2005, 10:45   #6
JammyJim
Godfather
 
JammyJim's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: England
Posts: 5,185
JammyJim has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JammyJim has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JammyJim has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JammyJim has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JammyJim has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JammyJim has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JammyJim has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JammyJim has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JammyJim has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JammyJim has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JammyJim has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: United kingdon and the EU

here come the EURO LOVERS to go 'your wrong ja?'

and im fairly sure perle pretended not to be german but was in actual fact german...i seem to recall some kind of anti british thread or something

however i could be wrong.
__________________
Forum Administrator
Mail : [email protected] // IRC : #forums
__________________
It's not personal, it's just business.
JammyJim is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 6 Jun 2005, 10:46   #7
arbondigo
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 386
arbondigo is a jewel in the rougharbondigo is a jewel in the rougharbondigo is a jewel in the rougharbondigo is a jewel in the rough
Re: United kingdon and the EU

I thought he was an Arab living in Germany?
arbondigo is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 6 Jun 2005, 10:55   #8
meglamaniac
Born Sinful
 
meglamaniac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Loughborough, UK
Posts: 4,059
meglamaniac has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.meglamaniac has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.meglamaniac has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.meglamaniac has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.meglamaniac has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.meglamaniac has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.meglamaniac has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.meglamaniac has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.meglamaniac has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.meglamaniac has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.meglamaniac has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: United kingdon and the EU

Well, at least France and Holland have saved me from the bother of voting "no" in our own referendum.
__________________
Worth dying for. Worth killing for. Worth going to hell for. Amen.
meglamaniac is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 6 Jun 2005, 10:55   #9
Thermodynamics
Powering your life...
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Dublin
Posts: 400
Thermodynamics is a splendid one to beholdThermodynamics is a splendid one to beholdThermodynamics is a splendid one to beholdThermodynamics is a splendid one to beholdThermodynamics is a splendid one to beholdThermodynamics is a splendid one to beholdThermodynamics is a splendid one to beholdThermodynamics is a splendid one to behold
Re: United kingdon and the EU

I think the EU wasn't such a bad idea- in less than century, the EU has made it impossible for Germany and France to declare war on each other- They are far too relient on each other economically, not to mention all the other countries. It is only natural than Germany and France should experience an economic downturn- economies are very cylical in nature- there will be booms, and there will br recessions. So it really is nobody's "fault"- during a recession it is natural to have a high rate of unemployment etc.

I would jhave to agree about the acension states though- they are and will have a very poor effect on the EU's economy... not to mention human rights record.
__________________
Reality is only a perception.
Thermodynamics is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 6 Jun 2005, 11:01   #10
berten
respect, unity, order
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 280
berten is a jewel in the roughberten is a jewel in the roughberten is a jewel in the rough
Re: United kingdon and the EU

altough we haven't seen an increase in economy it seems to be stabilising.

yes there's cheap workers invading atm, but it's not near to what i feared it to be.

bout the 2/3 € per h, hmmz that won't take long m8, they might do that now, but those prices will go up, let the 10 new countrys grow atm, let their level of civilisation and nominal income grow, it'll only benefit us in the (not so) near future
__________________
Together We Stand Divided We Fall
[Ðragons]
berten is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 6 Jun 2005, 11:05   #11
Ste
Bored
 
Ste's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Nottm ->Shef ->Croydon ->Manc ->Durham ->Sheffield
Posts: 6,506
Ste has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Ste has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Ste has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Ste has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Ste has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Ste has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Ste has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Ste has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Ste has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Ste has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Ste has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: United kingdon and the EU

i thought this was a quite interesting article.
The french never got what they wanted from europe. hooray \o/


edit and there are too many u's and m8's in this thread
__________________
Wise men write because they have something to write about; fools write because they have to write something. - Plato

yeh so Plastic Brilliance is now known as FOXYSTOAT - Come on by and check it out!
Ste is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 6 Jun 2005, 11:07   #12
JammyJim
Godfather
 
JammyJim's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: England
Posts: 5,185
JammyJim has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JammyJim has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JammyJim has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JammyJim has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JammyJim has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JammyJim has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JammyJim has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JammyJim has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JammyJim has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JammyJim has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JammyJim has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: United kingdon and the EU

Bar the absolutely massive CAP proceeds which they oh so love.
__________________
Forum Administrator
Mail : [email protected] // IRC : #forums
__________________
It's not personal, it's just business.
JammyJim is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 6 Jun 2005, 11:21   #13
Vaio
Heh, Leeds !
 
Vaio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: In The Redfern
Posts: 3,790
Vaio has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Vaio has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Vaio has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Vaio has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Vaio has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Vaio has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Vaio has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Vaio has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Vaio has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Vaio has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Vaio has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: United kingdon and the EU

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ste
i thought this was a quite interesting article.
The french never got what they wanted from europe. hooray \o/
(
They didn't get invaded by anyone, what more do the greedy sods want ?
__________________
The George Harrison of BlueTuba

Yes, I know he is dead !
Vaio is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 6 Jun 2005, 11:28   #14
Perle
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 329
Perle is infamous around these partsPerle is infamous around these partsPerle is infamous around these parts
Re: United kingdon and the EU

Quote:
Originally Posted by wu_trax
is this some poor attempt of sarcasm or are you really serious?

sarcasm????

have you seen the economical data in germany lately??

5 million people unemployed, 12%

no economical growth whatsoever in the last 3 or 4 years!!
Entire economical sectors are falling apart in germany. they have made a new EU-rule, in which anyone from any country in europe can offer his "service" as an entrepreneur in any country in europe. Companys in germany are firing regulary working people and are hiriing "entrepreneurs" from poland to replace them. In the state of niedersachsen 45000 people working in the factorys have been fired and replaced by "enterpreneurs" from poland. they work 16 hours a day and sleep in cheap barracks next to the factory.
WELCOME BACK to the 19th century.

The european union: we zap you back 150 years without you even noticing.


sarcasm??

ofcourse I am serious.
At least the french and the dutch stopped another historical mistake by voting against the constituion.
Who knows what loopholes the euracrates had built in them.


and no, I am not german. I live in germany.
__________________
"Security is the essential roadblock to achieving the road map to peace."
--George W. Bush, July 25, 2003

Mankind is ready to enter the solar system
George W. Bush, in his speech about his space program
Perle is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 6 Jun 2005, 11:47   #15
wu_trax
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,290
wu_trax is a pillar of this Internet societywu_trax is a pillar of this Internet societywu_trax is a pillar of this Internet societywu_trax is a pillar of this Internet societywu_trax is a pillar of this Internet societywu_trax is a pillar of this Internet societywu_trax is a pillar of this Internet societywu_trax is a pillar of this Internet societywu_trax is a pillar of this Internet societywu_trax is a pillar of this Internet societywu_trax is a pillar of this Internet society
Re: United kingdon and the EU

Quote:
Originally Posted by Perle
sarcasm????

have you seen the economical data in germany lately??

5 million people unemployed, 12%

no economical growth whatsoever in the last 3 or 4 years!!
Entire economical sectors are falling apart in germany. they have made a new EU-rule, in which anyone from any country in europe can offer his "service" as an entrepreneur in any country in europe. Companys in germany are firing regulary working people and are hiriing "entrepreneurs" from poland to replace them. In the state of niedersachsen 45000 people working in the factorys have been fired and replaced by "enterpreneurs" from poland. they work 16 hours a day and sleep in cheap barracks next to the factory.
WELCOME BACK to the 19th century.

The european union: we zap you back 150 years without you even noticing.


sarcasm??

ofcourse I am serious.
At least the french and the dutch stopped another historical mistake by voting against the constituion.
Who knows what loopholes the euracrates had built in them.


and no, I am not german. I live in germany.
what a lot of crap. if we would have had the euro, the deutsche mark would have never fallen as much as the euro did and thus boosting our competitivness on the world market in a time of global economical instability. if it wasnt for the EU we would have never been able to export as many goods to eastern europe as we do now. if a small relativly small country such as germany manages to exports more goods than the oh so great usa our economy cant be that bad.
and 5 million? are you really that stupid? they have been unemployed all the time, Schröder was just stupid enough to tell the people about and took the into the statisitic.
and you heared about the 'Entsendegesetz', didn't you? that should stop the evil polish from taking our jobs. anyway, if the states in eastern europe continue to grow the way they do that problem should solve itself in the near future, more likely that we move to poland for work.
if you had blamed the groos incompetence of our politicans for our ec onomical trouble, then fine, but the EU? and the Euro? no country in eastern europe even uses the euro, so its a bit hard to blame it. personally i think our main problem is that our country is full of people like you, you cant get anything done with people like that.

PS: if you like talking crap go play there: http://www.politikforum.de/
__________________
im not tolerant, i just dont care.

Last edited by wu_trax; 6 Jun 2005 at 11:54.
wu_trax is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 6 Jun 2005, 12:07   #16
KoeN
Lucky
Helicopter Champion
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: -
Posts: 3,830
KoeN has a brilliant futureKoeN has a brilliant futureKoeN has a brilliant futureKoeN has a brilliant futureKoeN has a brilliant futureKoeN has a brilliant futureKoeN has a brilliant futureKoeN has a brilliant futureKoeN has a brilliant futureKoeN has a brilliant futureKoeN has a brilliant future
Re: United kingdon and the EU

Quote:
Originally Posted by Perle
At least the french and the dutch stopped another historical mistake by voting against the constituion.
Who knows what loopholes the euracrates had built in them.

yay for a EU with 25 nations and veto-rights.
KoeN is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 6 Jun 2005, 12:14   #17
midge5
mmm lambs
 
midge5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: London
Posts: 1,906
midge5 single handedly makes these forums a better placemidge5 single handedly makes these forums a better placemidge5 single handedly makes these forums a better placemidge5 single handedly makes these forums a better placemidge5 single handedly makes these forums a better placemidge5 single handedly makes these forums a better placemidge5 single handedly makes these forums a better placemidge5 single handedly makes these forums a better placemidge5 single handedly makes these forums a better placemidge5 single handedly makes these forums a better placemidge5 single handedly makes these forums a better place
Re: United kingdon and the EU

Quote:
Originally Posted by Perle

the 10 new EU-Members are a desaster to the economy. In germany we already have over 100000 people jobless due to it. Their jobs have been replaced by cheap workers from poland and the chech republic who work for 2 or 3 euro/hour. And our politicians tell us that they cant do anything about it.
I find that hard to believe. Unemployment may have increased by 100,000 during that period but it won't be their fault. For a start you and most other countries have set limits on the number of people from the new EU countries that can enter your country. Britain and Ireland are two of the few who set no limit and I think Britain has only had about 130,000 people move over here but even a lot of them were seasonal workers. If anything this is one of the few moves by the EU I have liked.
__________________
I drink therefore I am
midge5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 6 Jun 2005, 12:38   #18
Perle
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 329
Perle is infamous around these partsPerle is infamous around these partsPerle is infamous around these parts
Red face Re: United kingdon and the EU

Quote:
Originally Posted by wu_trax
what a lot of crap. if we would have had the euro, the deutsche mark would have never fallen as much as the euro did and thus boosting our competitivness on the world market in a time of global economical instability. if it wasnt for the EU we would have never been able to export as many goods to eastern europe as we do now. if a small relativly small country such as germany manages to exports more goods than the oh so great usa our economy cant be that bad.
lol

I talk crap??
have you read the crap you wrote befor you submitted it??
the euro is good because it falls faster than the mark? what kind of nonsense is that??
the euro is at 1.22 $ . what the hell are you talking about?


who cares how much germany exports??? the money is going in the pockets of the big companys, they arent inversting it in germany , they arent employing new people. so who cares how much they export?

Quote:
Originally Posted by wu_trax
and 5 million? are you really that stupid? they have been unemployed all the time, Schröder was just stupid enough to tell the people about and took the into the statisitic.
4 years ago, we had 3.7 million unemployed. even with the new statistics method(which is responsible for an increase of 200k-400k) we still have an increase of about 1 million in 4 years!!!!!

i think you are the stupid one here!!


Quote:
Originally Posted by wu_trax
and you heared about the 'Entsendegesetz', didn't you? that should stop the evil polish from taking our jobs.
first of all, the Polish are not EVIl. Its always the same with people who have an ideologie(in your case loving the EU). they tend to evilize people who do not agree with them(in this case, you are trying to make me look like a racist). That is very unpolite of you. In your post your calling me stupid and a racist.

and secondly, the entsendegesetz applies only to the building trade. They want to apply it to other trades too, but as we know our lazy politicians, that will take years, by which time everyone will probably be jobless in the third sector.
and by the way, the entsendegesetz is ridicilous. read the latest spiegel. They have an article about how ridicilously easily they are ignoring that law.



Quote:
Originally Posted by wu_trax
anyway, if the states in eastern europe continue to grow the way they do that problem should solve itself in the near future, more likely that we move to poland for work.
?????

so we have to wait 20 years for poland to grow (if they keep growing like this) and then the problem will be solved?? is that your solution?
is that what the 5 million jobless folks in germany should do?? wait for the east europeans to catch up??
who is being stupid now??


Quote:
Originally Posted by wu_trax
if you had blamed the groos incompetence of our politicans for our ec onomical trouble, then fine, but the EU?
dude, who do you think runs the EU??? the most incompetent politicans(from our already pretty incompetent politician) are shoved off to europe so they can get them off the national political stage.


Quote:
Originally Posted by wu_trax
and the Euro?
ofcourse the euro!!! the prices have gone up because of the euro. People are no longer spending money because of the euro. The entire economy is not growing because of the damn euro. the purchasing power of the people living in the eurozone is reduced considerably.
read stern.de , they have many articles about the subject.


Quote:
Originally Posted by wu_trax
no country in eastern europe even uses the euro, so its a bit hard to blame it.
no, the eastern countries are taking away the jobs in the third sector, the euro has destroyed the purchasing Power. its a double blow to our economy.


Quote:
Originally Posted by wu_trax
personally i think our main problem is that our country is full of people like you, you cant get anything done with people like that.
yeah right, I am stopping the german economy from growing!!!
__________________
"Security is the essential roadblock to achieving the road map to peace."
--George W. Bush, July 25, 2003

Mankind is ready to enter the solar system
George W. Bush, in his speech about his space program
Perle is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 6 Jun 2005, 12:48   #19
lokken
BlueTuba
 
lokken's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 6,339
lokken has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.lokken has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.lokken has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.lokken has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.lokken has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.lokken has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.lokken has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.lokken has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.lokken has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.lokken has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.lokken has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: United kingdon and the EU

The Euro is crap because those at the extreme ends of the interest rate scale get ****ed by having a rate in the middle of them.
__________________
"Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life."
lokken is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 6 Jun 2005, 12:50   #20
Perle
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 329
Perle is infamous around these partsPerle is infamous around these partsPerle is infamous around these parts
Re: United kingdon and the EU

Quote:
Originally Posted by midge5
I find that hard to believe. Unemployment may have increased by 100,000 during that period but it won't be their fault. For a start you and most other countries have set limits on the number of people from the new EU countries that can enter your country. Britain and Ireland are two of the few who set no limit and I think Britain has only had about 130,000 people move over here but even a lot of them were seasonal workers. If anything this is one of the few moves by the EU I have liked.
yes you are right, it is very hard to believe. I didnt believe it either.

If you can speak german, thats an article describing how 26000 people in the states of niedersachsen have lost their jobs in the meat industry. and thats just one small sector.
they fire regular workers and employ "entrepenuers " from poland. those poor people have to work 12-16 hours a day, live in barracks and they only get 2-3 euros/hour.


http://www.flegel-g.de/eu-und-fleischer.html
__________________
"Security is the essential roadblock to achieving the road map to peace."
--George W. Bush, July 25, 2003

Mankind is ready to enter the solar system
George W. Bush, in his speech about his space program
Perle is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 6 Jun 2005, 13:03   #21
All Systems Go
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: London
Posts: 3,347
All Systems Go has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.All Systems Go has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.All Systems Go has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.All Systems Go has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.All Systems Go has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.All Systems Go has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.All Systems Go has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.All Systems Go has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.All Systems Go has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.All Systems Go has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.All Systems Go has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: United kingdon and the EU

the Poles are willing to do more work for less money, the companies would be stupid and going against the best wishes of the shareholders if they didn't do it.
__________________
The 20th century has been characterised by three developments of great political importance. The growth of democracy; the growth of corporate power; and the growth of corporate propaganda as a means of protecting corporate power against democracy.
All Systems Go is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 6 Jun 2005, 13:05   #22
Weeks
Banned
 
Weeks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 2,635
Weeks needs a job and a girlfriendWeeks needs a job and a girlfriendWeeks needs a job and a girlfriendWeeks needs a job and a girlfriendWeeks needs a job and a girlfriendWeeks needs a job and a girlfriendWeeks needs a job and a girlfriendWeeks needs a job and a girlfriendWeeks needs a job and a girlfriendWeeks needs a job and a girlfriendWeeks needs a job and a girlfriend
Re: United kingdon and the EU

Back again Perle, with an educated debate on the European Union.
We've missed you.
Weeks is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 6 Jun 2005, 13:09   #23
Perle
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 329
Perle is infamous around these partsPerle is infamous around these partsPerle is infamous around these parts
Re: United kingdon and the EU

Quote:
Originally Posted by All Systems Go
the Poles are willing to do more work for less money, the companies would be stupid and going against the best wishes of the shareholders if they didn't do it.

yes, exactly right. I am not blaming the poles. Im blaming the politicians who gave the companys the oppurtunity to do it.
__________________
"Security is the essential roadblock to achieving the road map to peace."
--George W. Bush, July 25, 2003

Mankind is ready to enter the solar system
George W. Bush, in his speech about his space program
Perle is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 6 Jun 2005, 13:12   #24
wu_trax
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,290
wu_trax is a pillar of this Internet societywu_trax is a pillar of this Internet societywu_trax is a pillar of this Internet societywu_trax is a pillar of this Internet societywu_trax is a pillar of this Internet societywu_trax is a pillar of this Internet societywu_trax is a pillar of this Internet societywu_trax is a pillar of this Internet societywu_trax is a pillar of this Internet societywu_trax is a pillar of this Internet societywu_trax is a pillar of this Internet society
Re: United kingdon and the EU

Quote:
Originally Posted by Perle
lol

I talk crap??
have you read the crap you wrote befor you submitted it??
the euro is good because it falls faster than the mark? what kind of nonsense is that??
the euro is at 1.22 $ . what the hell are you talking about?
it did fall first, in a time where economical growth world wide wasnt that great. then it started rising, at the same time the oil-prices rose too. both good things for the economy and niether would have happened at that extend with the D-Mark
Quote:
who cares how much germany exports??? the money is going in the pockets of the big companys, they arent inversting it in germany , they arent employing new people. so who cares how much they export?
then go and vote for WASG, see how well that will fix the economy, theyll really show those evil cpaitalists

Quote:
4 years ago, we had 3.7 million unemployed. even with the new statistics method(which is responsible for an increase of 200k-400k) we still have an increase of about 1 million in 4 years!!!!!

i think you are the stupid one here!!
yes, and that ofc, is the EU's fault, sure, who else? without the EU opening almost all of europe as a market for our products, we would have 5 million more.


Quote:
first of all, the Polish are not EVIl. Its always the same with people who have an ideologie(in your case loving the EU). they tend to evilize people who do not agree with them(in this case, you are trying to make me look like a racist). That is very unpolite of you. In your post your calling me stupid and a racist.

and secondly, the entsendegesetz applies only to the building trade. They want to apply it to other trades too, but as we know our lazy politicians, that will take years, by which time everyone will probably be jobless in the third sector.
and by the way, the entsendegesetz is ridicilous. read the latest spiegel. They have an article about how ridicilously easily they are ignoring that law.
they are going to extend it to other sectors. end of story. what else do you want to do? close all borders? most of the jobs they take are the crappy ones our unemployed dont even want anyway.



Quote:
?????

so we have to wait 20 years for poland to grow (if they keep growing like this) and then the problem will be solved?? is that your solution?
is that what the 5 million jobless folks in germany should do?? wait for the east europeans to catch up??
who is being stupid now??
again, what do you want to do? leave the EU? all we can and should do is make germany a more attractive location to invest money and we certainly cant do that if we are not in the eu anymore.


Quote:
dude, who do you think runs the EU??? the most incompetent politicans(from our already pretty incompetent politician) are shoved off to europe so they can get them off the national political stage.
only we are stupid enough to do that, others dont. also, its still national politicians who make the important decisions not some obscure eu-body


Quote:
ofcourse the euro!!! the prices have gone up because of the euro. People are no longer spending money because of the euro. The entire economy is not growing because of the damn euro. the purchasing power of the people living in the eurozone is reduced considerably.
read stern.de , they have many articles about the subject.
oh, again this crap. people dont spend money because they dont have any left after they are taxed by 50% for social security and the whole crap. they safe 20% of their available income because they know that our social security system is going to collapse, thats the problem not the bloody euro.

Quote:
no, the eastern countries are taking away the jobs in the third sector, the euro has destroyed the purchasing Power. its a double blow to our economy.
would you rather have our companies go brancrupt instead of outsourcing to eastern europe? and whats with this purchasing power? if the inflation rate would be any lower we would be in a depression.


Quote:
yeah right, I am stopping the german economy from growing!!!
yes, exactly, all those whiny little ***** like you, who rather blame something they dont understand than trying to fix their own problems drag this country down.
__________________
im not tolerant, i just dont care.
wu_trax is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 6 Jun 2005, 13:22   #25
midge5
mmm lambs
 
midge5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: London
Posts: 1,906
midge5 single handedly makes these forums a better placemidge5 single handedly makes these forums a better placemidge5 single handedly makes these forums a better placemidge5 single handedly makes these forums a better placemidge5 single handedly makes these forums a better placemidge5 single handedly makes these forums a better placemidge5 single handedly makes these forums a better placemidge5 single handedly makes these forums a better placemidge5 single handedly makes these forums a better placemidge5 single handedly makes these forums a better placemidge5 single handedly makes these forums a better place
Re: United kingdon and the EU

Quote:
Originally Posted by Perle
yes, exactly right. I am not blaming the poles. Im blaming the politicians who gave the companys the oppurtunity to do it.
There are other companies doing fine under the Euro. While I agree with Lokken about interest rates I doubt the Euro is the cause of all your troubles. It is morel likely down to the labour laws which are putting people off investing there.
__________________
I drink therefore I am
midge5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 6 Jun 2005, 13:26   #26
Summanus
Banned
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 433
Summanus is just really niceSummanus is just really niceSummanus is just really niceSummanus is just really niceSummanus is just really nice
Re: United kingdon and the EU

I'm blaming Perle for using the word 'economical' where it doesn't make sense (one of my pet hates).

It seems he's complaining on one of the grounds being the same that Americans use against Mexicans, 'they;re taking our jobs etc.'. Stop complaining, and either work harder, or work for the same amount.

I can't quite figure out you're trying to argue here. You want protection, you want the welfare state, you want big-government - things which usually hinder economic growth. Yet you complain about the economy growing slowly already.

Stop blaming the EU for everything (like Chirac did) and take some responsibility. Cut the red tape in Germany. If other people are willing to work, you have to be prepared to meet those conditions - competition is a cornerstone of the free market. Put more money into research and venture capital.

And for god's sake learn how to structure an argument
Summanus is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 6 Jun 2005, 13:32   #27
Nadar
I see you!
 
Nadar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: In any girl
Posts: 2,825
Nadar needs a job and a girlfriendNadar needs a job and a girlfriendNadar needs a job and a girlfriendNadar needs a job and a girlfriendNadar needs a job and a girlfriendNadar needs a job and a girlfriendNadar needs a job and a girlfriendNadar needs a job and a girlfriendNadar needs a job and a girlfriendNadar needs a job and a girlfriendNadar needs a job and a girlfriend
Re: United kingdon and the EU

I can't say I'm much of a EU-fan. Since Norway isn't a member, the EU have made all companies in Norway that's exporting salmon to EU pay a *penalty-tax of 24,5%. The bigger companies in Norway(like Leroey) will ofc survive this, but the smaller ones that is depending on export to the EU is having a hard time. In my opinion that's power-abuse and really really lame.. Can't see Norway will join the EU within the first few years at least and I surely hope we never will.

* The penalty-tax were introduced because the EU meant we were dumping the salmon-prices within the EU, but we weren't. That we're dumping the prices were just an excuse to give us a penalty-tax. When they calced to prove we dumped the prices, they let the most profitable companies out of the calc so it became inaccurate (only to prove their case). So the EU-commission were playing tricks with the calc and simply lied to everyone.

That shows how "great" the EU is.
__________________
www.foxystoat.com
Nadar is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 6 Jun 2005, 13:32   #28
Kurashima
Has Soup On His Head
 
Kurashima's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 10,095
Kurashima has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Kurashima has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Kurashima has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Kurashima has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Kurashima has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Kurashima has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Kurashima has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Kurashima has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Kurashima has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Kurashima has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Kurashima has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: United kingdon and the EU

The EU is great. It gives jobs to politicians who we dont want to see in Westminster and it ONLY costs us £800bn a year.

Win Win!
__________________
And the Banker, inspired with a courage so new
It was matter for general remark,
Rushed madly ahead and was lost to their view
In his zeal to discover the Snark
Kurashima is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 6 Jun 2005, 13:49   #29
Perle
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 329
Perle is infamous around these partsPerle is infamous around these partsPerle is infamous around these parts
Re: United kingdon and the EU

Quote:
Originally Posted by wu_trax
it did fall first, in a time where economical growth world wide wasnt that great. then it started rising, at the same time the oil-prices rose too. both good things for the economy and niether would have happened at that extend with the D-Mark
.
this doesnt make sense. the mark was at 0.8 $ in 94 and it was at 0.5 in 99. you cant take currency fluctuations and taker credit for the euro because of them.


Quote:
Originally Posted by wu_trax
then go and vote for WASG, see how well that will fix the economy, theyll really show those evil cpaitalists
.
ahh another insult, first stupid, then racist and now communist.
this is getting better all the time. if you continue at this rate, ill end up in a KZ by the next few posts.



Quote:
Originally Posted by wu_trax
yes, and that ofc, is the EU's fault, sure, who else? without the EU opening almost all of europe as a market for our products, we would have 5 million more.
.
ahhh, so you finally admit that the unemployment rate has gone up by a million in the last years.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wu_trax
they are going to extend it to other sectors. end of story. what else do you want to do? close all borders? .
they talked about it 2 months ago, nothing has happened yet. what about minimum wager?? why arent they bringing that one on the table?? what about stopping the eu rule that entrepreneurs can work in the entire EU? that would stop the entire jobkilling process

Quote:
Originally Posted by wu_trax
most of the jobs they take are the crappy ones our unemployed dont even want anyway.
.
so the 26000 people who lost their jobs in niedersachsen and were replaced by workers who work under condition known to us from the 19th century, were just lazy?? they didnt wanna work anyway???


Quote:
Originally Posted by wu_trax
again, what do you want to do? leave the EU? all we can and should do is make germany a more attractive location to invest money and we certainly cant do that if we are not in the eu anymore.
.
this is plain dumb!!! in germany we have third sector jobs like carpenter. we have all this middle class copmpanys who are going bancrupt because "entrepreneurs " from eastern europe are doing their jobs for a third of the cost.
what do you wanrt them to do??? work for 2 or 3 Euro per hour??
dont you realize that this is makiing us ALL poor???
they can do something about it. they have to stop the service law who permits the "entreprenuers to work freely " in the EU.

This isnt about big companys moving to eastern europe. this is about small 1 man company from eastern coming to western europe and making everyone poor!!





Quote:
Originally Posted by wu_trax
oh, again this crap. people dont spend money because they dont have any left after they are taxed by 50% for social security and the whole crap. they safe 20% of their available income because they know that our social security system is going to collapse, thats the problem not the bloody euro.
.
this is not crap. the purchasing power is reduced with the euro. alot of things have become much more expensive.
this is what everyone is saying. are you so deluded??
specially the gastronomy has become much more expensive


Quote:
Originally Posted by wu_trax
if the inflation rate would be any lower we would be in a depression.
.
"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." --Benjamin Disraeli

Ps: you mean deflation not depression. And you are calling me stupid, I laugh at you!!!
__________________
"Security is the essential roadblock to achieving the road map to peace."
--George W. Bush, July 25, 2003

Mankind is ready to enter the solar system
George W. Bush, in his speech about his space program
Perle is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 6 Jun 2005, 13:57   #30
Stew
Made of Twigs
 
Stew's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 5,459
Stew has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Stew has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Stew has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Stew has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Stew has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Stew has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Stew has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Stew has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Stew has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Stew has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Stew has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: United kingdon and the EU

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurashima
The EU is great. It gives jobs to politicians who we dont want to see in Westminster and it ONLY costs us £800bn a year.

Win Win!
From this anti EU article:

Quote:
The latest figures show that over the ten-year period 1993-2002 inclusive, the UK paid over to EU Institutions... gross, cumulatively: £104 billion.
In those same ten years the UK received back, cumulatively: £64 billion.
So the UK's net contribution over that ten-year period was £40 billion, or an average of £4 billion per year.
Close
__________________
If I hadn't seen such riches, I could live with being poor - James
It's hard to be humble when you're as great as I am - Muhammad Ali
So **** y'all, all of y'all; if y'all don't like me, blow me! - Dr. Dre
Stew is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 6 Jun 2005, 14:03   #31
Stew
Made of Twigs
 
Stew's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 5,459
Stew has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Stew has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Stew has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Stew has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Stew has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Stew has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Stew has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Stew has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Stew has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Stew has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Stew has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: United kingdon and the EU

Quote:
Originally Posted by Perle
"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." --Benjamin Disraeli

Ps: you mean deflation not depression. And you are calling me stupid, I laugh at you!!!

The two go hand in hand, so he's right.
We get deflation because people aren't spending, i.e. a depression.
But deflation increases the problem because people say "why buy this now when it will be cheaper in six months time?". Depression worsen. Deflation increases. Vicious cylce.

Get it?
__________________
If I hadn't seen such riches, I could live with being poor - James
It's hard to be humble when you're as great as I am - Muhammad Ali
So **** y'all, all of y'all; if y'all don't like me, blow me! - Dr. Dre
Stew is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 6 Jun 2005, 14:09   #32
G.K Zhukov
Evil inside
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 3,631
G.K Zhukov is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: United kingdon and the EU

Perle: What factories are you talking about? The ones from Danish Crown in Oldenburg?
__________________
<Germania>but you called Fury a bully, and that is terribly unfair
<Hicks>Occassionally individuals do things without Executive consent
<Dreadnought>You cant whois on Eclipse server without a registered nic, which mr ****stirrer doesnt have.
<Almeida> well i like to grow fat myself too, and when i have enough ships then i can engage in big battles
<Nantoz> Zhukov for Lord Protector!
<Jakiri> (Windows)XP was fine on release
G.K Zhukov is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 6 Jun 2005, 14:19   #33
wu_trax
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,290
wu_trax is a pillar of this Internet societywu_trax is a pillar of this Internet societywu_trax is a pillar of this Internet societywu_trax is a pillar of this Internet societywu_trax is a pillar of this Internet societywu_trax is a pillar of this Internet societywu_trax is a pillar of this Internet societywu_trax is a pillar of this Internet societywu_trax is a pillar of this Internet societywu_trax is a pillar of this Internet societywu_trax is a pillar of this Internet society
Re: United kingdon and the EU

Quote:
Originally Posted by Perle
this doesnt make sense. the mark was at 0.8 $ in 94 and it was at 0.5 in 99. you cant take currency fluctuations and taker credit for the euro because of them.
as i said in my first reply, the fluctuations never were not that large before, and most likely they would have moved in the opposite direction.

Quote:
ahhh, so you finally admit that the unemployment rate has gone up by a million in the last years.
and it would be a lot higher without the eu and the common market.
Quote:
they talked about it 2 months ago, nothing has happened yet. what about minimum wager?? why arent they bringing that one on the table?? what about stopping the eu rule that entrepreneurs can work in the entire EU? that would stop the entire jobkilling process
yes, more regulations would certainly make companies invest more money here. if anyone knows how much someone should earn its the state. we never had a minimum-wage, we have something called 'tarrif-autonomie', meaning that the state has no bloody buisness in messing around with the wages.


Quote:
so the 26000 people who lost their jobs in niedersachsen and were replaced by workers who work under condition known to us from the 19th century, were just lazy?? they didnt wanna work anyway???
what about the 2.6 million(or whatever, probably its even more) people who kept their jobs because of the EU? if you would be from spain or greece, then fine, argue against the extension of the EU, but especially for us and the market most companies here are set up in the extension of the EU was the best thing that ever happened.

Quote:
this is plain dumb!!! in germany we have third sector jobs like carpenter. we have all this middle class copmpanys who are going bancrupt because "entrepreneurs " from eastern europe are doing their jobs for a third of the cost.
what do you wanrt them to do??? work for 2 or 3 Euro per hour??
dont you realize that this is makiing us ALL poor???
they can do something about it. they have to stop the service law who permits the "entreprenuers to work freely " in the EU.
yes, and lets aswell put 50% tarrifs on all imports, that will teach the evil foreigners. its ofthen hard to see, but we live in a market economy and if you cant compete, then MAYBE you should do something else.
Quote:
This isnt about big companys moving to eastern europe. this is about small 1 man company from eastern coming to western europe and making everyone poor!!
if they buy a german car with the money they earn, then were is the problem? its simple competiton.


Quote:
this is not crap. the purchasing power is reduced with the euro. alot of things have become much more expensive.
this is what everyone is saying. are you so deluded??
specially the gastronomy has become much more expensive
'everyone' means all the retards who have no idea what they are talking about and want to score some cheap points with nationalism / scaring people?
our entire retail-sector is about the most competitive in the world. they make maybe 1-2% profit on their sales volume, if even that, espcially since this whole 'geiz-ist-geil'-madness started. even walmart, despite beeing the number 1 in the world, didnt earn a single cent here yet, other dont even want to enter the market, because its so damn hard to make any money here, and yet you claim to be overcharged because the greek around the corner now takes 50cent more for his gyros? eat somewhere else then.



Quote:
Ps: you mean deflation not depression. And you are calling me stupid, I laugh at you!!!
no, i mean depression, yes, you are stupid.
__________________
im not tolerant, i just dont care.
wu_trax is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 6 Jun 2005, 14:42   #34
G.K Zhukov
Evil inside
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 3,631
G.K Zhukov is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: United kingdon and the EU

Quote:
Originally Posted by wu_trax
and it would be a lot higher without the eu and the common market.
Can you back that up?
__________________
<Germania>but you called Fury a bully, and that is terribly unfair
<Hicks>Occassionally individuals do things without Executive consent
<Dreadnought>You cant whois on Eclipse server without a registered nic, which mr ****stirrer doesnt have.
<Almeida> well i like to grow fat myself too, and when i have enough ships then i can engage in big battles
<Nantoz> Zhukov for Lord Protector!
<Jakiri> (Windows)XP was fine on release
G.K Zhukov is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 6 Jun 2005, 14:52   #35
Thermodynamics
Powering your life...
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Dublin
Posts: 400
Thermodynamics is a splendid one to beholdThermodynamics is a splendid one to beholdThermodynamics is a splendid one to beholdThermodynamics is a splendid one to beholdThermodynamics is a splendid one to beholdThermodynamics is a splendid one to beholdThermodynamics is a splendid one to beholdThermodynamics is a splendid one to behold
Re: United kingdon and the EU

I'm completely out of my depth here, but I would like to reiterate- economies are cylical. And the EU as a whole has been losing business due to companies outsourcing- cheaper labour abroad etc. so hence with the introduction of chepaer labrourers into your country, at least those companies are still there. And In Ireland, we have seen a huge influx of pole (relative to our population and work force, our pop is 4mil) so those several 100 thousand actually represents a huge amount of labour for us. The vast majority of them are less skilled- most have difficulty with English [those who are skilled, ie. a degree don't have this problem, but they are a minority] and hence end up getting factory jobs, just like in Germany.

Jonnhy, it was in an Irish Times aticle a few weeks ago, you might have read it? So its not just Germany, you guys are just misfortunate to have a recession too.
__________________
Reality is only a perception.
Thermodynamics is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 6 Jun 2005, 14:52   #36
hyfe
Dum Di Dum Di
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 858
hyfe is a pillar of this Internet societyhyfe is a pillar of this Internet societyhyfe is a pillar of this Internet societyhyfe is a pillar of this Internet societyhyfe is a pillar of this Internet societyhyfe is a pillar of this Internet societyhyfe is a pillar of this Internet societyhyfe is a pillar of this Internet societyhyfe is a pillar of this Internet societyhyfe is a pillar of this Internet societyhyfe is a pillar of this Internet society
Re: United kingdon and the EU

Can I make a plea for the parties in this discussion to capilatize letters occasionally and never ever use several exclamation/question marks? Please?
__________________
Ni! M00!
my boring homepage
hyfe is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 6 Jun 2005, 14:58   #37
Perle
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 329
Perle is infamous around these partsPerle is infamous around these partsPerle is infamous around these parts
Re: United kingdon and the EU

Quote:
Originally Posted by G.K Zhukov
Can you back that up?

no, he cannot.
its just plain rubbish!
__________________
"Security is the essential roadblock to achieving the road map to peace."
--George W. Bush, July 25, 2003

Mankind is ready to enter the solar system
George W. Bush, in his speech about his space program
Perle is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 6 Jun 2005, 15:25   #38
wu_trax
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,290
wu_trax is a pillar of this Internet societywu_trax is a pillar of this Internet societywu_trax is a pillar of this Internet societywu_trax is a pillar of this Internet societywu_trax is a pillar of this Internet societywu_trax is a pillar of this Internet societywu_trax is a pillar of this Internet societywu_trax is a pillar of this Internet societywu_trax is a pillar of this Internet societywu_trax is a pillar of this Internet societywu_trax is a pillar of this Internet society
Re: United kingdon and the EU

Quote:
Originally Posted by G.K Zhukov
Can you back that up?
you just need to think about it.
The outsourcing would have happened anyway, either that or the companies would have gone bancrupt. Our perle here probably would have liked to turn to protectionism, but since we live on international trade that would be pretty stupid.
The EU, the common market and the Euro offer at least a little protection against the latest currency fluctuations, at least on european market. a lot of small- medium sized companies would have suffered a lot more under the currently weak dollar, because they cant effort to protect themselfs, now they have at least europe to sell their stuff.
The companies here are set up pretty good for buiness with eastern europe. Building mashines and such stuff for example is an important sector in our economy and a sector that cant be easily moved to a low-wage area, because it requires certain skills those people dont have (yet). the EU gave those companies easy access to those markets.
__________________
im not tolerant, i just dont care.
wu_trax is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 6 Jun 2005, 16:00   #39
Vaio
Heh, Leeds !
 
Vaio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: In The Redfern
Posts: 3,790
Vaio has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Vaio has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Vaio has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Vaio has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Vaio has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Vaio has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Vaio has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Vaio has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Vaio has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Vaio has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Vaio has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: United kingdon and the EU

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurashima
The EU is great. It gives jobs to politicians who we dont want to see in Westminster and it ONLY costs us £800bn a year.

Win Win!
Yeah, who needs more hospitals, dentists, public sector housing and better schools ?

Not us, that's for sure

Oh, wait..................
__________________
The George Harrison of BlueTuba

Yes, I know he is dead !
Vaio is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 6 Jun 2005, 16:00   #40
JonnyBGood
Banned
 
JonnyBGood's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Further to the right
Posts: 19,441
JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: United kingdon and the EU

That first post sounds like it was written by a twelve year old.

I didn't read the article thermo as I never buy the irish times as it's twice as expensive as the times (english).

Economies aren't necessarily cyclical. People just change their shit ideas every few years.

Speaking anecdotally, as let's face it the only thing worse than talking about economics is getting raped by four angry black men while the government charges you tax at 43 pence in the pound, I haven't noticed much difference in Ireland which I'd directly attribute to the euro. Of course that literally means dick on a stick but whatever I have money and poor people suck at life.

This has been a well thought-out evenly spaced post produced in co-operation with JBG Enterprises Inc., bringing urbane insightful witty commentary to the internet since 4:37 on Monday 18th July 1999.


PS I find it hilarious how people complain about giving money to the EU who invest it in shit countries but don't worry about giving it to their shitty national governments to invest it in poor people who live on the same island as them. Oh, they live on the same island as you, you must have a deep metaphysical link which transcends rationality!
__________________
Some might ask what good is life without purpose but I'm anticipating a good lunch.
JonnyBGood is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 6 Jun 2005, 16:00   #41
G.K Zhukov
Evil inside
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 3,631
G.K Zhukov is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: United kingdon and the EU

Quote:
Originally Posted by wu_trax
you just need to think about it.
The outsourcing would have happened anyway, either that or the companies would have gone bancrupt. Our perle here probably would have liked to turn to protectionism, but since we live on international trade that would be pretty stupid.
The EU, the common market and the Euro offer at least a little protection against the latest currency fluctuations, at least on european market. a lot of small- medium sized companies would have suffered a lot more under the currently weak dollar, because they cant effort to protect themselfs, now they have at least europe to sell their stuff.
The companies here are set up pretty good for buiness with eastern europe. Building mashines and such stuff for example is an important sector in our economy and a sector that cant be easily moved to a low-wage area, because it requires certain skills those people dont have (yet). the EU gave those companies easy access to those markets.
Ive just finished writing a bachelor thesis about the german economy, and I have been reading everything in the news about the german economy for the last 2-3 years. Im probably better informed than yourself.

Not really, its not a law, its a posibility. There is countries with similar labour costs as Germany, who fear much better. Countries like Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Finland and Austria. I will get back to this point.

EU, Euro & EMU has been a disaster for Germany. First you have paid large ammounts of money each year to stupid agricultural subsidies, subsidising purchase of more fishing boats (not needed at all), building roads nobody is going to use in Spain and allowed Ireland to grow with slashing corporate taxes (and thus undermining investment in Germany). And stupid as the average german taxpayer are, you continue to pay, even if your GDP per capita is now below that of Ireland and the UK (not to mention other countries like Luxembourg, Sweden, France etc).
EMU has taken away the option to spend more on the public bugdets, while Germany actually needs a bit off a kickstarting.
The Euro has made your export sector, whitch Germany depends on, get worse condition, since the Euro is generlally very strong. Not to mention that Japan, US, China, South-Korea etc all have dumped their currency at some time (or done so consequently).

Germany cannot live on machine-builiding alone, even if the country has large comparative advantages in this area. 1) This sector will not expand 2) Becouse of continuing automatization there will be less and less people employed. 3) Competion is likely to increase..

Japanese and american firms are investing heavily in Hungary, the former Chechoslovakia, Poland and other low-cost countries to outcompete German labour on simple price.
German firms have alot of their plants in Germany (Opel is in a bad position having plants in Bochum, Russelheim, Kaiserslautern and Eisenarch in Thüringen).

The system with hiring in poles as "contractors" is not new Perle. This tradition with a sort of "slave labour" started atleast three decades ago, but then it was not poles, but turks, morocans, tunisians, kurds, jugoslavs and south-european.
I suggest reading Günther Walraffs book, "at the bottom" published around 1986 for a good describtion about this "sub-contracting system".

This article about the situation for workers in a danish meat company called Danish Crown is also worth reading: http://www.berlingske.dk/business/artikel:aid=563736 and http://www.ekstrabladet.dk/VisArtike...?PageID=284949
(I know their in danish, but try using google and search for Danish Crown, if you dont understand danish).
__________________
<Germania>but you called Fury a bully, and that is terribly unfair
<Hicks>Occassionally individuals do things without Executive consent
<Dreadnought>You cant whois on Eclipse server without a registered nic, which mr ****stirrer doesnt have.
<Almeida> well i like to grow fat myself too, and when i have enough ships then i can engage in big battles
<Nantoz> Zhukov for Lord Protector!
<Jakiri> (Windows)XP was fine on release
G.K Zhukov is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 6 Jun 2005, 16:07   #42
Vaio
Heh, Leeds !
 
Vaio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: In The Redfern
Posts: 3,790
Vaio has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Vaio has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Vaio has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Vaio has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Vaio has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Vaio has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Vaio has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Vaio has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Vaio has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Vaio has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Vaio has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: United kingdon and the EU

See, the main problem as I see it is that the EU is made up of all these different countries that don't like each other and don't trust each other.

Someone want to tell me how this is isn't doomed to failure ?
__________________
The George Harrison of BlueTuba

Yes, I know he is dead !
Vaio is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 6 Jun 2005, 16:08   #43
JonnyBGood
Banned
 
JonnyBGood's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Further to the right
Posts: 19,441
JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: United kingdon and the EU

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaio
See, the main problem as I see it is that the EU is made up of all these different countries that don't like each other and don't trust each other.

Someone want to tell me how this is isn't doomed to failure ?
Shit people die.
__________________
Some might ask what good is life without purpose but I'm anticipating a good lunch.
JonnyBGood is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 6 Jun 2005, 16:11   #44
Vaio
Heh, Leeds !
 
Vaio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: In The Redfern
Posts: 3,790
Vaio has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Vaio has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Vaio has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Vaio has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Vaio has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Vaio has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Vaio has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Vaio has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Vaio has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Vaio has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Vaio has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: United kingdon and the EU

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
Shit people die.
No, they join boy bands.
__________________
The George Harrison of BlueTuba

Yes, I know he is dead !
Vaio is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 6 Jun 2005, 16:15   #45
JonnyBGood
Banned
 
JonnyBGood's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Further to the right
Posts: 19,441
JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: United kingdon and the EU

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaio
No, they join boy bands.
Seriously dude it's not like the french and germans and irish are all out to get you. If the only fundamental problem is that people find it impossible to trust those of different nationalities generational change will solve that problem, assuming we avoid irrational ungrounded perpetuation of various ethnocentric (wrong word but nationcentric sounds shit) myths. Of course there actually are real economic problems with the EU but personally I attribute those to the half-assed mega-confused "what the **** are we trying here?" way the EU goes about things.
__________________
Some might ask what good is life without purpose but I'm anticipating a good lunch.
JonnyBGood is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 6 Jun 2005, 16:19   #46
Thermodynamics
Powering your life...
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Dublin
Posts: 400
Thermodynamics is a splendid one to beholdThermodynamics is a splendid one to beholdThermodynamics is a splendid one to beholdThermodynamics is a splendid one to beholdThermodynamics is a splendid one to beholdThermodynamics is a splendid one to beholdThermodynamics is a splendid one to beholdThermodynamics is a splendid one to behold
Re: United kingdon and the EU

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaio
See, the main problem as I see it is that the EU is made up of all these different countries that don't like each other and don't trust each other.

Someone want to tell me how this is isn't doomed to failure ?
It's been successful! Since its inception (the EU) these countries haven't invaded each other, gone to war*cough* Britain *cough* [against each other at least... ] and I think that ehm having your neighbour invade you would be quite detrimental to your economy!
__________________
Reality is only a perception.
Thermodynamics is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 6 Jun 2005, 16:22   #47
Nusselt
share the <3
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Location: Location:
Posts: 2,709
Nusselt single handedly makes these forums a better placeNusselt single handedly makes these forums a better placeNusselt single handedly makes these forums a better placeNusselt single handedly makes these forums a better placeNusselt single handedly makes these forums a better placeNusselt single handedly makes these forums a better placeNusselt single handedly makes these forums a better placeNusselt single handedly makes these forums a better placeNusselt single handedly makes these forums a better placeNusselt single handedly makes these forums a better placeNusselt single handedly makes these forums a better place
Re: United kingdon and the EU

I don't think you can call the euro a failure when its only been in common use for a few years. Im not dogmatically anti or pro euro, if its in britain's interests to join id have no problem with it joining. The scenearios likely to be encountered by the euro and by various banking trends were dealt with pretty throughly not only by the central banks of the various nations involved but also by the various private banks, and businesses that supported its adoption. I don't see how a politician saying 'the euro is to blame' adds any credibility to the arguments for the euros demise. Besides all the new eu members have to join the euro (by 2010 i think) it was part of the membership agreement, discrepency between exhange rates and cost of living is being evened out, the very nature or europe means the kinds of things being talked about (cheaper labour from the east) isn't going to last. It hasn't in the past and it won't in the future.

And if im not mistaken no one country can unilaterally withdraw from the currency, it needs consensus within the euro members.
__________________
Sophie is hotter than you
though ive gone off her now; the way Susanna Reid squirms around on sml is, however, awesome
Nusselt is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 6 Jun 2005, 16:25   #48
G.K Zhukov
Evil inside
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 3,631
G.K Zhukov is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: United kingdon and the EU

Your just well-fed becouse those germans subsidize your arse off Johhny.
G.K Zhukov is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 6 Jun 2005, 16:33   #49
JonnyBGood
Banned
 
JonnyBGood's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Further to the right
Posts: 19,441
JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: United kingdon and the EU

Actually Ireland has been a net contributor to the EU for a good few years now. We're giving* back to the poor :)
































*highly infectious untreatable terminal diseases so they don't steal our cash :(
__________________
Some might ask what good is life without purpose but I'm anticipating a good lunch.
JonnyBGood is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 6 Jun 2005, 16:41   #50
Dante Hicks
Clerk
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 13,940
Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: United kingdon and the EU

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
PS I find it hilarious how people complain about giving money to the EU who invest it in shit countries but don't worry about giving it to their shitty national governments to invest it in poor people who live on the same island as them. Oh, they live on the same island as you, you must have a deep metaphysical link which transcends rationality!
Well yeah but you're probably less likely to be mugged by someone who lives a few thousand miles away.

Also, it's debatable how much of the EU subsidy actually benefits the poor in "shit countries".
Dante Hicks is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 08:40.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2002 - 2018