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Unread 7 Aug 2006, 23:41   #1
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[George Galloway] Sky News pwned

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=249JaIaubVw

Why do news reporters try it on with him? Hes probably amongst the best political orators of his generation, i don't agree with everything he says but its nigh on impossible to get into a verbal duel with him (as Hitchens and Paxo could testify). The funny thing was when he started on news international/murdoch and they sounded down his mic. A serious field reporter wouldn't out talk him let alone the desk totty.
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Unread 7 Aug 2006, 23:50   #2
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Re: [George Galloway] Sky News pwned

because they are either suicidal, egotistical or underestimate just how good he is at verbally raping someone.
I dont agree with all his views, but damn i respect him for his ability
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Unread 8 Aug 2006, 00:10   #3
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Re: [George Galloway] Sky News pwned

Pity he's a silly prat.
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Unread 8 Aug 2006, 00:25   #4
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Re: [George Galloway] Sky News pwned

lol

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Unread 8 Aug 2006, 00:55   #5
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Re: [George Galloway] Sky News pwned

I know people dismiss him out of hand as a raving loonatic, but a lot of what the man had to say in this interview was right on target. It's always satisfying to watch the news anchors squirm when an interview refuses to follow the script. You'd think, having booked him and knowing his reputation, they'd have prepared a bit better.
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Unread 8 Aug 2006, 01:16   #6
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Re: [George Galloway] Sky News pwned

George Galloway is around the best politician going, if a terrible terrible human being
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Unread 8 Aug 2006, 01:22   #7
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Re: [George Galloway] Sky News pwned

Quote:
Originally Posted by meglamaniac
I know people dismiss him out of hand as a raving loonatic, but a lot of what the man had to say in this interview was right on target.
Don't just fall for rhetoric though. He serves his own interests exclusively (look at his Parliamentary constituency), and when that coincides with everyone else's that's all fine and dandy. Shame about the rest of the time.
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Unread 8 Aug 2006, 01:26   #8
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Re: [George Galloway] Sky News pwned

Oh I'm not saying the man's a saint. Far from it. He just happens to be right this time.
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Unread 8 Aug 2006, 03:10   #9
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Re: [George Galloway] Sky News pwned

Good old George. I agree with his general point here, but hes still an utter bastard.
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Unread 8 Aug 2006, 08:43   #10
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Re: [George Galloway] Sky News pwned

Normally I dont get involved with Politics but Israel is pissing all over Lebanon with a bias from Israels point of view.

In this case, George Galloway ftw
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Unread 8 Aug 2006, 09:15   #11
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Re: [George Galloway] Sky News pwned

That interview was great... and I loved that tinge of desperation in the interviewers voice.
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Unread 8 Aug 2006, 14:23   #12
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Re: [George Galloway] Sky News pwned

that was absolutly brilliant. I'm on 56k atm but it definatly worth the wait.

Bravo.
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Unread 8 Aug 2006, 22:48   #13
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Re: [George Galloway] Sky News pwned

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toccata & Fugue
This is what annoys me about people who criticise George galloway.

Firstly are you saying that the majority of politicians are saints who selflessly serves their community without expectation of reward?
No, and I didn't say that. What I'm saying is that he's the worst example of an MP, especially compared to many MPs who are actually dedicated to their constituencies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toccata & Fugue
Secondly are there any other elected politicians getting on the media and saying anything remotely like what George Galloway says, or arguing their case as well.
No, there's no-one like George Galloway. I respect his oratory skills as much as the next man, especially before the Senate committee - but that doesn't mean I have to agree with him or even like him. No, there's no-one else saying what he's saying - but given our political system and party whips, I wouldn't expect it either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toccata & Fugue
Thirdly their consituency knew what they were getting.
So did the Germans who voted for Hitler


Come on, you're not actually being serious are you?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toccata & Fugue
Forthly, since when did people give a shit about an MPs consituency other than their own, why Furball are you suddenly an expect on Bethnal Green and Bow?
Perhaps you just haven't paid much attention to my posts. I pay a hell of a lot of attention to British politics.

Let's just get this over with anyway.


www.theyworkforyou.com is a website that monitors the activities of parliamentarians, including the aforementioned Mr Galloway.

Quote:
Has spoken in 4 debates in the last year — well below average amongst MPs.
Has received answers to 20 written questions in the last year — below average amongst MPs.
Replied within 2 or 3 weeks to 3% – 16% (click for details) of messages sent via WriteToThem.com during 2005 — well below average amongst MPs.
Has attended 16% of votes in parliament — well below average amongst MPs. (From Public Whip)
In fact, from what I recall, he attends the fewest debates and votes of any healthy MP in the country - fewer than Tony Blair and David Cameron, who are rather busy running the country and a major political party respectively. I've read articles by constituents of his who complain about his total lack of activity in Bethnal Green & Bow.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Toccata & Fugue
George Galloway has been fairly consistent in his views, unlike many many other politicians who remain broadly silent or compliant on the topic. Foreign Office minister Kim Howells said he found "Israel's strategy hard to understand" WTF is that?
He's totally bananas too, but there we are. He's consistent - but so's Ossie Bin Laden in his whole "I hate America rah rah rah".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toccata & Fugue
So if you have nothing better to say than "George Galloway isn't the greatest guy ever so he sux lols" then please just don't bother.

Edit: also he was doing an interview, so he kind of has to talk. Calling talk rhetoric is just pointless spin, what about your rhetoric on these forums or anyone's rhetoric.
Hopefully I've demonstrated that I'm happy to back up what I'm saying. Rhetoric just happens to be the turn of phrase that I employed, please don't get offended
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Unread 8 Aug 2006, 23:10   #14
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Re: [George Galloway] Sky News pwned

Quote:
Originally Posted by furball
No, and I didn't say that. What I'm saying is that he's the worst example of an MP, especially compared to many MPs who are actually dedicated to their constituencies.
This really depends on what your MP to do. The last thing I'd want my MP to do is involve themselves in "constituency affairs" - we have local authorities and councillors for a reason, we don't need MPs getting involved in tedious campaigns about litter collections or whatever else. Similarly, you might want your MP in parliament all the time. Good for you. However, since (on the whole) individual MPs are totally ineffectual in influencing the course of parliamentary debates I'm not sure how valuable that would be. Dennis Skinner pretty much lives in parliament but I'm not sure if Bolsover is being transformed into a new Jerusalem any time soon.

As for Galloway : He was elected on an anti-war program. He then proceeds to spend most of his time conducting an anti-war campaign. He's done more to advance the anti-war message than any other politician in the UK. I fail to see how this makes him a bad MP unless you think the (largely meaningless) time spent in parliament is the be all and end all of everything.
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Unread 8 Aug 2006, 23:23   #15
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Re: [George Galloway] Sky News pwned

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante Hicks
This really depends on what your MP to do. The last thing I'd want my MP to do is involve themselves in "constituency affairs" - we have local authorities and councillors for a reason, we don't need MPs getting involved in tedious campaigns about litter collections or whatever else. Similarly, you might want your MP in parliament all the time. Good for you. However, since (on the whole) individual MPs are totally ineffectual in influencing the course of parliamentary debates I'm not sure how valuable that would be. Dennis Skinner pretty much lives in parliament but I'm not sure if Bolsover is being transformed into a new Jerusalem any time soon.
It obviously depends on what you want your MP to do. I can't imagine a world in which it doesn't.

MPs don't actually do the litter campaign shit. They are essentially one of the last ports of call for a constituent - the person we can turn to when most other avenues are exhausted. They have a lot of power to ask questions and demand answers, and they have a fair bit of influence over quangos in promoting their constituents' interests. Councillors, in comparison, are useless and completely retarded - which is why they're in local government. You're advancing the typical view of Parliament of the apathetic intellectual, which is a shame really.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante Hicks
As for Galloway : He was elected on an anti-war program. He then proceeds to spend most of his time conducting an anti-war campaign. He's done more to advance the anti-war message than any other politician in the UK. I fail to see how this makes him a bad MP unless you think the (largely meaningless) time spent in parliament is the be all and end all of everything.
Again, the time spent in Parliament isn't meaningless. Perhaps if you read through a bit of Hansard (try PMQs for starters) then you could try to appreciate this. Written questions are pretty useful as well, but not as publicised.
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Unread 8 Aug 2006, 23:30   #16
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Re: [George Galloway] Sky News pwned

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante Hicks
This really depends on what your MP to do. The last thing I'd want my MP to do is involve themselves in "constituency affairs" - we have local authorities and councillors for a reason, we don't need MPs getting involved in tedious campaigns about litter collections or whatever else. Similarly, you might want your MP in parliament all the time. Good for you. However, since (on the whole) individual MPs are totally ineffectual in influencing the course of parliamentary debates I'm not sure how valuable that would be. Dennis Skinner pretty much lives in parliament but I'm not sure if Bolsover is being transformed into a new Jerusalem any time soon.

As for Galloway : He was elected on an anti-war program. He then proceeds to spend most of his time conducting an anti-war campaign. He's done more to advance the anti-war message than any other politician in the UK. I fail to see how this makes him a bad MP unless you think the (largely meaningless) time spent in parliament is the be all and end all of everything.
I want my MP to scritinise parliamentary bills.

I want that because life and government are not about flashy media presentations and gormless idiots prattling on (seriously you people ... "good orator" ... by **** is he a good orator. MAYBE if the only orator you've ever seen was a sock puppet ... but otherwise .... NO).

Change is about details and scrutiny. all of that really dull stuff that you don't bother to pay attention to.

Parliament has ONE mechanism to affect change.

I'd like members of parliament to pay attention to that.
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Unread 8 Aug 2006, 23:31   #17
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Re: [George Galloway] Sky News pwned

I'm just pleased he made troutface look stupid
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Unread 8 Aug 2006, 23:35   #18
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Re: [George Galloway] Sky News pwned

Quote:
Originally Posted by furball
You're advancing the typical view of Parliament of the apathetic intellectual, which is a shame really.
My department has to deal with MP's enquiries fairly often and so I have to see first hand the banality they deal with on a regular basis. I've even had to draft letters to the execrable Jacqui Lait MP on a range of issues too tedious to go into. This is not what MPs should be doing with their time (imho). The fact they do (and it's perceived they have to) is another sign our political system is broken.
Quote:
Again, the time spent in Parliament isn't meaningless. Perhaps if you read through a bit of Hansard (try PMQs for starters) then you could try to appreciate this.
Sadly I've had to do this. I've done a Politics degree remember. I stand by my remarks. Galloway's time is much better spent out of parliament on the issue he's addressing - it certainly will gain more publicity for the general anti-war cause than the ocassional clever remark in parliament.

Again, it depends on what you want. I didn't vote for Galloway (and probably wouldn't anyway) but it seems ridiculous to say he's a terrible MP because he's not fulfilling what you personally want. If the people who voted for him are surprised / displeased by the fact he's not spent much time in parliament then I'm not sure they paid much attention to the election campaign.

(Obviously all these remarks need to be taken in the context that I think Parliament should be converted into a manure storage facility and most of it's members shot through the lungs)
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Unread 8 Aug 2006, 23:41   #19
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Re: [George Galloway] Sky News pwned

I think that girl (interviewer) feels ravaged.
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Unread 8 Aug 2006, 23:42   #20
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Re: [George Galloway] Sky News pwned

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante Hicks
This is not what MPs should be doing with their time (imho). The fact they do (and it's perceived they have to) is another sign our political system is broken.
What 'political system'?

Outside an election there is no political system.

What we live by (and with) is a legal system. That is all that matters.

Please stop playing at being a magpie and being distracted by bright shiny things. Reality is dull.
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Unread 8 Aug 2006, 23:44   #21
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Re: [George Galloway] Sky News pwned

This reminded me a great deal of http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rmZkw169xEI


Its brillant when cocky ego driven anchor men and women go against people who are infinitely more adept at communicating a message and seemingly 'armed with actual facts'.


Whilst I think Galloway is a big of a prat (as has been mentioned above), He does make some fairly valid points that you cant dismiss just because hes a prat.

The worrying thing about Murdoch and News Corporation as well as the BBC is that we really dont get the full story and from the very offset ive often been sitting watching the coverage and it always stuns me how they cover 10 israeli ARMY deaths for about 30minutes and then mention 'oh btw 100 lebanese CIVILIANS died when Israeli bombs hit a civilian tower block. We will be right back after these messages.."


It always hits me that the death of 10 trained men who signed up for a job that does involve the risk of dying (especially when your government orders you to invade another soverign land) is blown into some kind of 'lets cry our eyes out for these men' even though the death of hundreds of civlians...children...women....etc etc is just brushed aside.

He makes a hugely valid point about the fact that every news agency has centred this around the original kidnapping of Israeli soldiers by Hizbollah. Whilst yes this kicked things off it just ignores decades of history just so that joe bloggs 'i work in a factory making cheese for a living' can plop his fat ass down on the couch and go 'oh yes i understand perfectly'. Its like they take an infinitly complex issue and instead of trying to explain why this conflict has kicked off in a historical sense they just say 'well lets ignore lots of whats happened becuase it just overcomplicates things for everyone'

Whilst he is a twat and clearly isnt the greatest MP in terms of representing his constituency, I dont think its relevant in the comments hes making. He is in a position (whether he deserves it or not) to make comments and thankgod someone like him is using that position to point out what a dismal state our 'free press' is in.
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Unread 8 Aug 2006, 23:45   #22
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Re: [George Galloway] Sky News pwned

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toccata & Fugue
1. Well clearly it depends on what you want from your MP. If you want your MP to be an individual who speaks his mind then we have George Galloway. if you want your MP to slavishly follow the party line and even when they do express their opinion they sound like a bunch of idiots then that is fine.
What are you saying?

Life isn't about fighting and postulating.

It really doesn't matter if you want your MP to be able to juggle with fire and sing julie andrews songs.

An MP reads, scrutinises, ammends and votes on proposed legislation.

THAT'S IT
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Unread 8 Aug 2006, 23:46   #23
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Re: [George Galloway] Sky News pwned

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
What 'political system'?
The division of responsibilities between local and central government for a start. You can term this a legal system if you wish, I am not really that bothered by terminology.
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Unread 8 Aug 2006, 23:48   #24
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Re: [George Galloway] Sky News pwned

Quote:
Originally Posted by JammyJim
It always hits me that the death of 10 trained men who signed up for a job that does involve the risk of dying
While I agree with you, Israel does have conscription doesn't it?
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Unread 8 Aug 2006, 23:48   #25
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Re: [George Galloway] Sky News pwned

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
An MP reads, scrutinises, ammends and votes on proposed legislation.

THAT'S IT
How many of them actually do that?

Isn't it more like "An MP reads the legislation then votes whatever way the whips tell him/her too"
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Unread 8 Aug 2006, 23:50   #26
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Re: [George Galloway] Sky News pwned

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
An MP reads, scrutinises, ammends and votes on proposed legislation.

THAT'S IT
No it's not. That might be what they are paid to do in a formal sense. That might even be their job description if such a thing exists. But sticking your fingers in your ears and saying "I can't hear you" doesn't change the fact they do other things as well. You may not think it appropriate they are judged by these other activites but sadly not everyone will listen to you regardless of how much bold/italic you may use.
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Unread 8 Aug 2006, 23:51   #27
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Question Re: [George Galloway] Sky News pwned

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante Hicks
The division of responsibilities between local and central government for a start. You can term this a legal system if you wish, I am not really that bothered by terminology.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toccata & Fugue
They don't really do that either though do they.

That is the collective best that you two can do is it?

You two are trying to argue for a talentless ego maniac who can't bring himself to do the job he is paid for and this is how you do it?

We could save a lot of time by re-naming you both ozymandias.

(if you want to turn your shovels around and start moving toward the sunlight then please feel free to actually address the i have raised)
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Unread 8 Aug 2006, 23:51   #28
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Re: [George Galloway] Sky News pwned

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante Hicks
While I agree with you, Israel does have conscription doesn't it?
The point is still that its military deaths....
some would argue that military deaths are 'legitimate targets' whereas civilian deaths really are to be avoided and therefore its these deaths that should be highlighted.
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Unread 8 Aug 2006, 23:52   #29
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Re: [George Galloway] Sky News pwned

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante Hicks
No it's not. That might be what they are paid to do in a formal sense. That might even be their job description if such a thing exists. But sticking your fingers in your ears and saying "I can't hear you" doesn't change the fact they do other things as well. You may not think it appropriate they are judged by these other activites but sadly not everyone will listen to you regardless of how much bold/italic you may use.
are you suggesting that an MP has ever changed anything by using another mechanism?
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Unread 8 Aug 2006, 23:55   #30
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Re: [George Galloway] Sky News pwned

Jon Steward is great there too, are there any other examples of media-****-ups?
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Unread 8 Aug 2006, 23:56   #31
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Re: [George Galloway] Sky News pwned

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
are you suggesting that an MP has ever changed anything by using another mechanism?
Yes, of course they have.
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Unread 8 Aug 2006, 23:57   #32
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Re: [George Galloway] Sky News pwned

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toccata & Fugue
As for your fatuous nonsense about scrutiny, why on earth would I trust a bunch of idiot MPs to scrutinise legislation that they damn well wrote? I scrutinise the legislation myself thanks.
I congratulate you on your promotion to parliamentary counsel.

I'm not convinced that either of you even know what you are supporting.

it's the equivalent of saying that george galloway can fart the loudest. you might find it impressive. but it's not actually relevant.
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Unread 8 Aug 2006, 23:57   #33
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Re: [George Galloway] Sky News pwned

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante Hicks
Yes, of course they have.
example?
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Unread 9 Aug 2006, 00:03   #34
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Re: [George Galloway] Sky News pwned

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
example?
Well, from personal experience we (my employers) have certainly made changes to decisions we have made regarding transfers or repair issues after our local MPs (Jacqui Lait, the late Eric Forth and John Horam) have made interventions of various types. I suspec this is precisely the sort of thing Furball was talking about quite a few posts ago.

Now, I personally do not feel they were wisely spending their time when they did this but that does not really change anything.
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Unread 9 Aug 2006, 00:07   #35
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Re: [George Galloway] Sky News pwned

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toccata & Fugue
I am sure you can appreciate certain elements of George Galloway's style (as long as we are getting into petty name calling). If we are talking about jobs people are paid for then we should ask ourselves whether MPs even come close to earning their pay. Bunch of spinless, impotent cow-towing, corporate obsessed ****wits. Who has any time for any MP? The idea that British parliament has any relevancy in people's daily lives is a sad illusion perpetuated by peopel who think that Britain represents some sort of posotive force in world affairs.

What issue did you raise? See above for my view on the so-called scrutiny role of MPs, the self-serving, self-angrandising role they perform, poorly at that.

Again I re-iterate my applause for the highly amusing and well overdue defense of reality and perspective by Mr Galloway.
you are effectively saying that george galloway is a highly (tax) paid clown (and that you find him the most amusing).

you are also dismissing the relevance of all British legislation in regards the lives of British people.

cynicism and doubt are healthy to any democracy.

what you are doing is just silly.
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Unread 9 Aug 2006, 00:10   #36
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Re: [George Galloway] Sky News pwned

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante Hicks
Well, from personal experience we (my employers) have certainly made changes to decisions we have made regarding transfers or repair issues after our local MPs (Jacqui Lait, the late Eric Forth and John Horam) have made interventions of various types. I suspec this is precisely the sort of thing Furball was talking about quite a few posts ago.

Now, I personally do not feel they were wisely spending their time when they did this but that does not really change anything.
A worker at a bar might choose to dip his hat to an MP.

but no one made him.

george galloway is merely a performing animal. you find his excapades amusing. I would rather that horses were not made senators.
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Unread 9 Aug 2006, 00:11   #37
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Re: [George Galloway] Sky News pwned

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toccata & Fugue
1. Well clearly it depends on what you want from your MP. If you want your MP to be an individual who speaks his mind then we have George Galloway. if you want your MP to slavishly follow the party line and even when they do express their opinion they sound like a bunch of idiots then that is fine.
There's speaking your mind, and then there's George Galloway. Someone I respect who speaks their mind is Kate Hoey, a fellow London MP. She cares about her constituents too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toccata & Fugue
2. I never said you had to agree with him, we repect plurality of views and Mr. Galloway is providng that. Given that you seem to have accepted that our political system is compromised and inadequate it makes your criticism even more confused.
What exactly is your point here?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toccata & Fugue
3. Yes well touche, how can I argue with such a good point.
Proclaiming that his constituents should have know what they were getting deserved such a response.

Galloway was elected by around 13% of his total constituents. Unless you're going to argue that those who fail to vote shouldn't be entitled to any political representation, your point on this front is completely invalid.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Toccata & Fugue
5. You don't know a goddam thing about British politics. Reading "they work for us" and studyng the inanity of MPs is so far removed from the politics as Britain as to be unrecognisiable. Real politics is the struggle of ordinary working people to affect their own lives. Parliamentary questions have little or nothing to do with that, they are just a charade. Similarly I think we can all attest to the utter fruitlessness of parliamentary debates, and as for voting, well the voting record of Labour politicians against the needs of the working and induistrial class tells us all we need to know. The fact that they aren't even aware of this makes the comedy so pathetic as to be almost unbearable. And yet you have the temerity to opine an indivisual MP's record as some sort of reflection of character. Lets us recall that those MPs who are turning up to vote are by and large representing narrow interests and generally making the world a worse place. Let us also recall the sheer unrepresentativeness of the House of Commons not just in terms of the will of the electorate but the make up of the population.
My apologies for using a website that collects statistics on MPs' parliamentary records as a source for an argument based on a particular MP's parliamentary record

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toccata & Fugue
An MP is there to represent the views of those who voted for him and for the country at large.
No, he's supposedly elected solely by his constituents on the merits of his character and manifesto.

My argument remains that he is a poor MP, not a poor politician. Yes, there are different models of MPs - the delegate model, the representative model, and so on. However, I'm sure you yourself wouldn't want to get too theoretical here, what with your generalisations and ranting about the Westminster system and the evils of the present Labour MPs. Surely the constituents of New Labour MPs should have known what they were getting into?
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Unread 9 Aug 2006, 00:12   #38
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Re: [George Galloway] Sky News pwned

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toccata & Fugue
No its not the equivalent. Your argument is the equivalent of praising a student who can recite an entire latin text but cannot tell you what it means.
And george galloway is a better student?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toccata & Fugue
The relevancy is Galloway's critique is the woeful media coverage of the crisis in the Middle East, his obsinacy in stopping a vital issue in the national consciousness and not allowing it to be dominated by the commenattor pages of broadsheet newspapers, and his ability to do this whilst be slanderes and sneered at by imbeciles and imperialist apologists.
I'm pretty sure that there are people not paid a salary by taxes who can argue with the media.
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Unread 9 Aug 2006, 00:19   #39
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Re: [George Galloway] Sky News pwned

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toccata & Fugue
I am not saying anything of the kind. First of all being a paid MP doesn't mean you should be subservient to the state. Your first duty should be to the people. Again your traditional tactic of just re-writing what I said inaccuratley is easily corrected. I am saying that George galloway is a paid representative of the views of a large section of British opinion. Furthermore that he is on this occasion pretty much stating the facts as they appear something which the rest of Parliament and the media had failed to do so far.

Yes i am doing that, insofaras the British social progress occurs inspite of legislation and its legislators not because of it or them.

Well if you are calling me silly I guess you have proved your point then haven't you. When you chosse to return to analysis and logic i shall be waiting.
stating 'the facts' to whom?

and to what purpose?
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Unread 9 Aug 2006, 00:20   #40
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Re: [George Galloway] Sky News pwned

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
A worker at a bar might choose to dip his hat to an MP.

but no one made him.
No, but no-one has suggested that. I am merely providing an example where MP's have changed things outside of your "An MP reads, scrutinises, ammends and votes on proposed legislation."
Quote:
you find his excapades amusing.
Not really. I can't watch unscripted TV for the most part and so haven't watched this interview (or other interviews). I also don't find the idea of anchor people being embarrassed amusing in the slightest. I am just glad there is someone who is (for better or worse) a voice of much of the anti-war opinion in this country. This is not about amusement (for me anyway).
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Unread 9 Aug 2006, 00:21   #41
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Re: [George Galloway] Sky News pwned

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toccata & Fugue
Please name for us a "better" MP?
there names aren't well known (which was my point)

he's not even trying to be what an MP ought to try to be.
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Unread 9 Aug 2006, 00:21   #42
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Re: [George Galloway] Sky News pwned

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toccata & Fugue
Please name for us a "better" MP?
I answered Kate Hoey in my earlier post. She works hard for her constituents while being willing to go against her party's whip. I believe that for these two truncated reasons, she's superior to George Galloway. How do you disagree? (I don't dare to even contemplate that you might agree with me)
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Unread 9 Aug 2006, 00:25   #43
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Re: [George Galloway] Sky News pwned

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante Hicks
No, but no-one has suggested that. I am merely providing an example where MP's have changed things outside of your "An MP reads, scrutinises, ammends and votes on proposed legislation."
I'm sure that we can find an MP who has changed his table at Claridges and one who got a free hat for his son but I don't see that you are addressing my point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante Hicks
I am just glad there is someone who is (for better or worse) a voice of much of the anti-war opinion in this country. This is not about amusement (for me anyway).
I must be very isolated indeed. I had thought that there were others.

I apologise for my mistake. Perhaps mr galloway will give up his seat and his salary in order to focus upon the task.
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Unread 9 Aug 2006, 00:33   #44
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Re: [George Galloway] Sky News pwned

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toccata & Fugue
Well why does anyone state facts in public, presumably so that they don't just drop down the memory whole along with so much else of history.
I believe your presumption is false
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Unread 9 Aug 2006, 00:38   #45
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Re: [George Galloway] Sky News pwned

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toccata & Fugue
My point is that you have accepted that we can't expect much of MPs under the whips system. Well if we can both agree that the exercise of democracy is sham then the argument seems to be over.
Woah let's not get ahead of ourselves. I might have agreed with you in a few posts time that the whips system places considerable constraint on a legislature, but I'd rather you didn't tell me that I'd already agreed to your words.

I realise that you support either a communist dicatorship or a collectivist society (which is it? I forget, I'm fairly sure it's not anarchism...not in the short-term anyway), so your feelings about democracy are unlikely to be the most friendly. I'd again appreciate it if you didn't tell me to agree with you that democracy is a sham - perhaps you can refer me to why you actually think so. You know, the whole "disclose your evidence" principle.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toccata & Fugue
Well I am sure Galloway's are proud of what they are getting. I wasn't saying they deserve what they get, I was saying that I am sure they would be disappointed at having voted for him and then him beavering away arguing about early day motions and technicalities in the regulatory reform bill.
Early day motions are fairly pointless. Well done, you seized on one of the most worthless and unattended elements of Parliament. As for the Legislative and Regulatory Reform Bill, I hope that it's only because you want Parliament to fail as an institution that you don't care about it - for your sake, not mine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toccata & Fugue
Well if we are citing voting figures we can look at the total number of anti-war votes and add them up. Its easy to juggle with figures. Teh Government of the day received less than a quarter of the vote yet have won all but two parliamentary votes, what does that say about your precious parliament attending, question asking MPs?
It says that the system under which they are elected is shite. I prefer Single Transferrable Vote, even if it would produce my own personal idea of hell (a Labour-Lib Dem coalition).


Quote:
Originally Posted by Toccata & Fugue
This isn't a debate about Galloway's Parliamentary record, who criticised his character. I have explaiend at length why palriamentary record is not only an inadequate judge of character but completely misleading.

Well i can get into detail if you like, but there are 650 MPs and i still don't think I could match the ground breaking analysis you provide: "He's totally bananas too." You are quite right that New Labour voters voted for what they got, that's pluralism for you.
It wasn't analysis, it was opinion. As an upstanding member of No. 10's Press Office, I'd expect you to realise this.

And it was 'Old' Labour voters who deserved what they got as well.
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Unread 9 Aug 2006, 00:55   #46
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Re: [George Galloway] Sky News pwned

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toccata & Fugue
Well you said that MPs did what they could inspite fo the whips system, which pretty close to nothing.
Not really. The whips system enforces the party line by making life very difficult for those who don't obey it. Of course, some MPs are entrenched enough not to care - with Kate Hoey as an example.

However, without whips we'd have chaos. A credible alternative has yet to be presented to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toccata & Fugue
I support democracy I just don't believe we live in one, any more than East Germans believed they lived in a democracy.
Elective dictatorship? Probably when it comes to the executive, but it all depends on the Government's majority. The Government's incredible majority from 1997 to 2005 probably did create this situation. I am less inclined to say it does now - certainly not to the same extent.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toccata & Fugue
I am sure we can experiment with any number of voting systems. By observing their operation in other European countires we notice 2 important things. Firstly no matter what system you have it hasn't led any country to a glorious utopia. Secondly no matter who you vote for, the government always wins.
What is a glorious utopia? I've seen no evidence that such a selfless society exists, nor any that one will ever exist.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toccata & Fugue
I no longer work at the number 10 press office and your opinion was boring and predictable.
If you're happy, congratuations. I was unaware that you'd changed jobs. As for my opinion, I'm not going to apologise for consistency. Boring? If you say so :crymeariver: I guess I'm just not radical enough

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Originally Posted by Toccata & Fugue
I don't believe there ever was an "old Labour."
Why?
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Unread 9 Aug 2006, 07:24   #47
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Re: [George Galloway] Sky News pwned

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
I'm sure that we can find an MP who has changed his table at Claridges and one who got a free hat for his son but I don't see that you are addressing my point.
Then all I can ask is you go away and think about it some more.
Quote:
I must be very isolated indeed. I had thought that there were others.

I apologise for my mistake. Perhaps mr galloway will give up his seat and his salary in order to focus upon the task.
As far as I understand he is giving up his seat at the next election. In the meantime I would certainly imagine that the high profile that being an MP gives is worth it in term of boost to publicity of the anti-war movement.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Furball
It says that the system under which they are elected is shite. I prefer Single Transferrable Vote, even if it would produce my own personal idea of hell (a Labour-Lib Dem coalition).
Seriously, what? If that is your personal idea of hell then you need to get a better imagination. (Unless you're saying that we're currently in hell now too, which I'd have some sympathy for but would still disagree)
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Unread 9 Aug 2006, 09:55   #48
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Re: [George Galloway] Sky News pwned

Quote:
Originally Posted by furball
Elective dictatorship
Ladies and gentleman, I think we have a winner!

Who exactly really wants ID cards anyway? Very very few people I believe. We've elected a dictator who doesn't actually listen to the people hes supposed to listen to.
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Unread 9 Aug 2006, 10:11   #49
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Re: [George Galloway] Sky News pwned

Hey! I wont have a bad word said about George, the oil he sold me was top stuff!
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Unread 9 Aug 2006, 13:36   #50
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Re: [George Galloway] Sky News pwned

Galloway is like the Tony Benn of silly opinions.
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