Supreme Court Justice confirmed.

[s|k]

Originally Posted by Dante Hicks

The death penalty seems to be quite a good example of where you can't really just take the narrow "it doesn't matter what the judges personal view is" approach to this question.

I wouldn't underestimate the ability of people to divorce themselves from from personal views. After all, professionalism is about putting your own views aside and acting in accordance with your professional obligations and responsibilities.

[Dante Hicks]

Originally Posted by s|k

I wouldn't underestimate the ability of people to divorce themselves from from personal views. After all, professionalism is about putting your own views aside and acting in accordance with your professional obligations and responsibilities.

Yes, but with an issue like whether x or y is cruel there is only a personal view. It's like asking a movie critic to not let his opinion affect his reviews or something along those lines.

[Cuddley_Battleship]

Originally Posted by s|k

What does that have anything to do with nothing? Where the **** in the article does it even say he's black? ****ing racist piece of shit.

I looked it up, on suspicion. I just figured that's why he got the stay.

[Phang]

Originally Posted by Cuddley_Battleship

I looked it up, on suspicion. I just figured that's why he got the stay.

what, because the american judicial system is so ****ing lenient towards blacks?


ye're offa yer heid.

[Cuddley_Battleship]

Originally Posted by Phang

what, because the american judicial system is so ****ing lenient towards blacks?


ye're offa yer heid.

It actually is, considering the difference in per capita crime rates. Look it up.

[s|k]

Originally Posted by Cuddley_Battleship

It actually is, considering the difference in per capita crime rates. Look it up.

You're clueless.

Blacks and latinos are over represented in the prisons. They are more likely to be convicted for crimes and receive harsher punishments for the same crime than a white person.

In 1997 the percent of U.S. population in racial group under correctional supervision was 9 percent black and 2 percent white.

Since the death penalty was reinstated by the Supreme Court in 1976, more than half of those under sentence of death have been white, but of all those sentenced to death in 2004 1,850 were white and 1,390 were black and 74 were other.

42% percent of the people given death sentences were black.

In the 2000 US Census you can see that out of the total 274,595,678 people accounted for 211,460,626 were white and 34,658,190 black.

African Americans make up 13% of the US population yet 42% of those sentenced to death are black.

Your per capita crime is a bullshit variable and has no place in anything as 'per capita' includes infractions such as bike theft and your implication that crimes not punishable by death justify an inequitable application of capital punishment is ludicrous.

What were you saying again?

[Phang]

what s|k said, but he missed a bit. saying "the cops arent biased, they arrest more nigs!" does not constitute a solid argument.

[s|k]

Originally Posted by Phang

what s|k said, but he missed a bit. saying "the cops arent biased, they arrest more nigs!" does not constitute a solid argument.

All that data and effort and I missed that.

[Cuddley_Battleship]

Yes, they are "overrepresented" as far as population goes, but they committ many times more murders per capita so there actually should be MORE on death row than there are.

Murder Offenders 2004
Total Male Female Unknown White Black Other Unknown
15,935 10,262 1,130 4,543 5,339 5,608 271 4,717

http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius_04/offen...me/murder.html

That's a big disparity, especially considering that Mexicans are included as white, and nowhere near all the "unknowns" were committed by whites. So, almost a 1:1 conviction ratio by 13% of the population, and there aren't enough "unreported" or "unsolved" crimes to make up for it.

[MrL_JaKiri]

1:1 conviction ratio

[Cuddley_Battleship]

Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri

1:1 conviction ratio

Point being? You're saying that a white guy went into a black neighborhood in 5,000 different cases, mugged and killed someone, and there was enough evidence to pin it on someone else? Ridiculous.

[Phang]

have you ever heard the song 'Hurricane' by Bob Dylan?

[MrL_JaKiri]

Originally Posted by Cuddley_Battleship

Point being? You're saying that a white guy went into a black neighborhood in 5,000 different cases, mugged and killed someone, and there was enough evidence to pin it on someone else? Ridiculous.

Using statistics that show more black people are convicted doesn't provide any evidence against there being a bias in the system duder, as it can be an artifact of it.

[Cuddley_Battleship]

Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri

Using statistics that show more black people are convicted doesn't provide any evidence against there being a bias in the system duder, as it can be an artifact of it.

It would still take 4500 false convictions, with witnesses, evidence, etc to even it out. Especially in large cities where there would be black jurors who wouldn't be biased against them. Even in a biased system that is not possible for well over a third of convictions to be false. If it is biased, then why is there so much more crime in minority neighborhoods in large cities, while where I live I'm as safe as I would be in Iceland or Switzerland? There are still low income families, but very little drugs, never murder.

[s|k]

Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri

Using statistics that show more black people are convicted doesn't provide any evidence against there being a bias in the system duder, as it can be an artifact of it.

Study after study has revealed that crime is postively related to poverty and as blacks are overrepresented in poverty rates it makes sense that they are overrepresented in crime, but that does not mean it's the sole factor explaining the descrepancy. Other explanations studied have shown racial bias, institutional descrimination, and other factors. I'd like Cuddly_****face to draw up a research proposal studying how inherent obscure trait of blackness and moral baseness are positively related, since that's what he really wants to say. Or better yet, instead I suggest he read up on how racial ignorance is related to ignorance about cultural and sociological knowledge.

[s|k]

Originally Posted by Cuddley_Battleship

It would still take 4500 false convictions, with witnesses, evidence, etc to even it out. Especially in large cities where there would be black jurors who wouldn't be biased against them. Even in a biased system that is not possible for well over a third of convictions to be false. If it is biased, then why is there so much more crime in minority neighborhoods in large cities, while where I live I'm as safe as I would be in Iceland or Switzerland? There are still low income families, but very little drugs, never murder.

Your problem, beyond your everyday ignorance and misplaced racial hate, is that you try to rationalize issues without having done any serious literature research or without any idea of what you're talking about. You're a reactionary who only goes as far as he needs to convince himself of what he already knows to be true.

[Cuddley_Battleship]

Originally Posted by s|k

Study after study has revealed that crime is postively related to poverty and as blacks are overrepresented in poverty rates it makes sense that they are overrepresented in crime, but that does not mean it's the sole factor explaining the descrepancy. Other explanations studied have shown racial bias, institutional descrimination, and other factors.

Yes, they are overrepresented in poverty, but they are still outnumbered 2 to 1 in poverty by whites. http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0104520.html

What about bias and discrimination? There's affirmative action and such, so you can go to a good college and get a good job even though you may be far less qualified for it. I don't think getting stiffed for a job is an excuse for gang rape and murder at ten times the rate of normal. And there's welfare for free as well. Did you know that minorities draw more welfare and other transfer payments than they pay as a whole in taxes?

Originally Posted by s|k

I'd like Cuddly_****face to draw up a research proposal studying how inherent obscure trait of blackness and moral baseness are positively related, since that's what he really wants to say. Or better yet, instead I suggest he read up on how racial ignorance is related to ignorance about cultural and sociological knowledge.

I think that study is self evident in the world itself. I don't have anything against them, I just don't like pretending like everything is fine when it clearly isn't. Stop fooling yourselves.

[s|k]

Originally Posted by Cuddley_Battleship

Yes, they are overrepresented in poverty, but they are still outnumbered 2 to 1 in poverty by whites. http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0104520.html

HELLO 2:1, black people only make up 13% of the US population IS THERE ANYTHING GETTING INTO YOUR BRAIN AT ALL?

Originally Posted by Cuddley_Battleship

What about bias and discrimination? There's affirmative action and such, so you can go to a good college and get a good job even though you may be far less qualified for it. I don't think getting stiffed for a job is an excuse for gang rape and murder at ten times the rate of normal. And there's welfare for free as well. Did you know that minorities draw more welfare and other transfer payments than they pay as a whole in taxes?

African Americans were slaves less than 150 years ago. African Americans were discriminated against severely less than 50 years ago. African Americans to this day do not receive equal educations, benefits from taxes, and opportunities in this world. How about I shackle you with a big, heavy, metal iron ball and then we race and see how long it takes you to catch up with me.

Originally Posted by Cuddley_Battleship

I think that study is self evident in the world itself. I don't have anything against them, I just don't like pretending like everything is fine when it clearly isn't. Stop fooling yourselves.

'I think that study is self evident' I love this. This is great. I would laugh, except it's so sad.

[acropolis]

we know that black people are committing lots of crimes, whether the system is biased or not. we know this because, brilliantly enough, american society is ~fully segregated. black people live in their neighborhoods, white people live in theirs. this is certainly a large contributor to the fact that crimes against whites are largely committed by whites, and crimes against blacks largely by blacks. and the crime rates in black neighborhoods are much, much higher because they do it a lot more.

now, maybe they caught all the wrong black people, and maybe they caught all the wrong white people. maybe all the people in our prisons are innocent. but the racial ratio in prisons is not, on the face of it, wrong.

the only truly relevant statistics are sentencing statistics, where similar crimes with similar evidence are directly compared. but this is a highly subjective area, and it still leads to false conclusions.

i'm sure there you would find that blacks face stiffer sentences under the same conditions too. and that's obviously not fair. but it's not necessarily racism; white people hire better lawyers (they wouldn't make much money if they didn't help).

good luck fixing the system.

[Cuddley_Battleship]

Originally Posted by s|k

HELLO 2:1, black people only make up 13% of the US population IS THERE ANYTHING GETTING INTO YOUR BRAIN AT ALL?

Anything getting into YOUR brain? You're saying poverty is the result, but there are more whites in poverty than blacks (twice as many) but blacks still murder more people. Not an excuse.

Originally Posted by s|k

African Americans were slaves less than 150 years ago. African Americans were discriminated against severely less than 50 years ago. African Americans to this day do not receive equal educations, benefits from taxes, and opportunities in this world. How about I shackle you with a big, heavy, metal iron ball and then we race and see how long it takes you to catch up with me.

Hmm, I already mentioned affirmative action/equal opportunity. What about getting 36% of welfare as 13% population? Sports scholarships? Charities? Someone being a slave 150 years ago doesn't justify sitting at home with 5 kids without a job, or being at a really good school and someone has to read you your SAT exam because you can't read it. And it still doesn't justify raping, mugging and murdering at that rate.

[Cuddley_Battleship]

Originally Posted by acropolis

we know that black people are committing lots of crimes, whether the system is biased or not. we know this because, brilliantly enough, american society is ~fully segregated. black people live in their neighborhoods, white people live in theirs. this is certainly a large contributor to the fact that crimes against whites are largely committed by whites, and crimes against blacks largely by blacks. and the crime rates in black neighborhoods are much, much higher because they do it a lot more.

http://www.amren.com/store/colorcrime.htm

Crime Rates

• Blacks are seven times more likely than people of other races to commit murder, and eight times more likely to commit robbery.

• When blacks commit crimes of violence, they are nearly three times more likely than non-blacks to use a gun, and more than twice as likely to use a knife.

• Hispanics commit violent crimes at roughly three times the white rate, and Asians commit violent crimes at about one quarter the white rate.

• The single best indicator of violent crime levels in an area is the percentage of the population that is black and Hispanic.

Interracial Crime

• Of the nearly 770,000 violent interracial crimes committed every year involving blacks and whites, blacks commit 85 percent and whites commit 15 percent.

• Blacks commit more violent crime against whites than against blacks. Forty-five percent of their victims are white, 43 percent are black, and 10 percent are Hispanic. When whites commit violent crime, only three percent of their victims are black.

• Blacks are an estimated 39 times more likely to commit a violent crime against a white than vice versa, and 136 times more likely to commit robbery.

• Blacks are 2.25 times more likely to commit officially-designated hate crimes against whites than vice versa.

Gangs

• Only 10 percent of youth gang members are white.

• Hispanics are 19 times more likely than whites to be members of youth gangs. Blacks are 15 times more likely, and Asians are nine times more likely.

Incarceration

• Between 1980 and 2003 the US incarceration rate more than tripled, from 139 to 482 per 100,000, and the number of prisoners increased from 320,000 to 1.39 million.

• Blacks are seven times more likely to be in prison than whites. Hispanics are three times more likely.

[MrL_JaKiri]

Some of those are abusing statistics, the "Blacks commit more violent crime against whites than against blacks" one most significantly.

[JonnyBGood]

It's hardly surprising most crime is committed against white people. It doesn't exactly take a genius to work out that they might be worth more to rob.

[s|k]

Originally Posted by Cuddley_Battleship

Anything getting into YOUR brain? You're saying poverty is the result, but there are more whites in poverty than blacks (twice as many) but blacks still murder more people. Not an excuse.




Hmm, I already mentioned affirmative action/equal opportunity. What about getting 36% of welfare as 13% population? Sports scholarships? Charities? Someone being a slave 150 years ago doesn't justify sitting at home with 5 kids without a job, or being at a really good school and someone has to read you your SAT exam because you can't read it. And it still doesn't justify raping, mugging and murdering at that rate.

I think you need to learn statistics to comment beyond this point.

2:1 ratio of whites to black in poverty.
13% of Americans are black.


2:1 ratio of whites to black in poverty.
36% of welfare goes to black people.

All the statistics you have shown only contradict or do not support anything you have said. Only you don't understand it, because you are ignorant.

[acropolis]

Originally Posted by JonnyBGood

It's hardly surprising most crime is committed against white people. It doesn't exactly take a genius to work out that they might be worth more to rob.

were this true,

wouldn't it strike you as odd that while 80% of americans are white, only 40% of black victims are?

[MrL_JaKiri]

Originally Posted by JonnyBGood

It's hardly surprising most crime is committed against white people. It doesn't exactly take a genius to work out that they might be worth more to rob.

There are also a lot more of them.

[JonnyBGood]

Originally Posted by acropolis

were this true,

wouldn't it strike you as odd that while 80% of americans are white, only 40% of black victims are?

Ah but blacks are nearer to other blacks most of the time, especially the poor ones in their ghettos and they can't afford the bus far to go to a nice neighbourhood and rob it

[acropolis]

Originally Posted by JonnyBGood

Ah but blacks are nearer to other blacks most of the time, especially the poor ones in their ghettos and they can't afford the bus far to go to a nice neighbourhood and rob it

that's a common misconception.

in fact, all blacks get the bus pass that lets you ride all month for one fee.

[QazokRouge5]

Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4665216.stm

Alito in.

This does not look like good news. Moderate replaced by Conservative, and a (relatively) inexperienced anti-abortionist Conservative as well.

Abortion is going to be a HUGE issue in the Supreme Court later this year, with Nabraska and South Dakota, among others, drafting legislature to not only make abortion illegal in those states, but also make transporting a woman out of the state to have an abortion a felony. If Roe vs Wade gets even close to even suggesting to being overturned, it'll open an astronomical can of worms. The jurisprudence of the past Supreme Court rulings, and the way in which they hold up a significant number of civil rights that are not defined in the constitution, are not things that produce good results when you question them.

I really don't see why any of you fks should care, you're all Euros.

[JonnyBGood]

Originally Posted by acropolis

that's a common misconception.

in fact, all blacks get the bus pass that lets you ride all month for one fee.

I thought they all sold their bus passes for cheap 40oz bottles of miller high life?

[MrL_JaKiri]

Originally Posted by QazokRouge5

I really don't see why any of you fks should care, you're all Euros.

Yahwe and Qazok, trolling together at last.

[Phang]

Originally Posted by Cuddley_Battleship

http://www.amren.com/store/colorcrime.htm

Crime Rates

• Blacks are seven times more likely than people of other races to commit murder, and eight times more likely to commit robbery.

• When blacks commit crimes of violence, they are nearly three times more likely than non-blacks to use a gun, and more than twice as likely to use a knife.

• Hispanics commit violent crimes at roughly three times the white rate, and Asians commit violent crimes at about one quarter the white rate.

• The single best indicator of violent crime levels in an area is the percentage of the population that is black and Hispanic.

Interracial Crime

• Of the nearly 770,000 violent interracial crimes committed every year involving blacks and whites, blacks commit 85 percent and whites commit 15 percent.

• Blacks commit more violent crime against whites than against blacks. Forty-five percent of their victims are white, 43 percent are black, and 10 percent are Hispanic. When whites commit violent crime, only three percent of their victims are black.

• Blacks are an estimated 39 times more likely to commit a violent crime against a white than vice versa, and 136 times more likely to commit robbery.

• Blacks are 2.25 times more likely to commit officially-designated hate crimes against whites than vice versa.

Gangs

• Only 10 percent of youth gang members are white.

• Hispanics are 19 times more likely than whites to be members of youth gangs. Blacks are 15 times more likely, and Asians are nine times more likely.

Incarceration

• Between 1980 and 2003 the US incarceration rate more than tripled, from 139 to 482 per 100,000, and the number of prisoners increased from 320,000 to 1.39 million.

• Blacks are seven times more likely to be in prison than whites. Hispanics are three times more likely.

FAO everyone: the organisation that is posting this 'information' has nick griffin scheduled to do a talk and are advertising this at the top of their front page. but otherwise, they're an objective, representative source.

[roadrunner_0]

Originally Posted by s|k

I think you need to learn statistics to comment beyond this point.

2:1 ratio of whites to black in poverty.
13% of Americans are black.


2:1 ratio of whites to black in poverty.
36% of welfare goes to black people.

surely i cant be the only one who thinks you have completely shot yourself in the foot with this post, you have just compared the same statistic and come out with two different results to back your self up,

[s|k]

Originally Posted by Phang

FAO everyone: the organisation that is posting this 'information' has nick griffin scheduled to do a talk and are advertising this at the top of their front page. but otherwise, they're an objective, representative source.

I had never heard of him before.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nick_Griffin

Criticisms of Griffin

Griffin has had many detractors. He is widely viewed as a Nazi and a fascist, which he strongly disputes. Griffin has met with David Duke former leader of the Ku Klux Klan and has praised black separatist Louis Farrakhan. In 1988, Griffin went to Libya (at Muammar al-Qaddafi's expense) to raise money, although it transpired that Qaddafi was really only looking for an outlet to distribute his Green Book. In the past, Griffin has called the Holocaust 'wartime propaganda' [1] and attacked a Holocaust denier, David Irving for admitting that some Jews died at the hands of the Nazi state in the Second World War. Many have also accused him of Anti-Semitism, citing his claims in the leaflet "Who are the Mind Benders?" that Jews dominate British media. In 1998, Griffin was convicted of encouraging racial hatred by giving out BNP literature. This conviction has been claimed by opponents to be contradictory to Griffin's outspoken demands for "law & order", although Griffin claims that the law under which he was convicted is an unjust law and he therefore has no obligation to follow it.


Recent arrest and charges

On 14 December 2004, Nick Griffin was arrested on suspicion of incitement to racial hatred, relating to a BBC documentary aired in July 2004. He was released on police bail the same day.

Griffin was the 12th person to be arrested following the documentary and the second high profile arrestee in this case after BNP founder John Tyndall, who was arrested on 12 December.

On 6 April 2005, he was charged by police with four offences of using words or behaviour intended or likely to stir up racial hatred. He was acquitted of two of the charges at Leeds Crown Court on February 2nd 2006. The jury were unable to reach a verdict on the other two and the Crown Prosecution Service announced that they would seek a re-trial.

Sounds like an outstanding citizen!

Also that site is an affilate of amazon, and I've sent an email to amazon asking them if they know they support a hate site. :/

[roadrunner_0]

nick griffin is a thug, there is no more to it

[s|k]

Originally Posted by roadrunner_0

surely i cant be the only one who thinks you have completely shot yourself in the foot with this post, you have just compared the same statistic and come out with two different results to back your self up,

Road Runner..

Whites make up 77% of the US population, blacks make up 13% of the population yet the ratio of whites to black in poverty is 2:1. That indicates a very strong overrepresentation of blacks in poverty. A very very strong one.

If the ratio of whites to black in poverty is 2:1 then it makes sense that 36% of all black people in the US are on welfare. That statistic is not that 36% of all people on welfare are black. Source (pdf 2 html):
http://pdf2html.pootwerdie.com/pdf2h...70s/p70-77.pdf

In any case here are the real numbers:

There are 34,658,190 black people living in America.
37.0 million people are in poverty.
26.6% of all the people in poverty are black.
9,842,000 black people are in poverty
36% of all blacks are on welfare.
28.4% of all black people are in poverty.

There are 211,460,626 white, non hispanic people in poverty
37.0 million people are in poverty.
45.1% of all people in poverty are white, non hispanic
16,687,000 Whites, non hispanic are in poverty
11.7% all white, non hispanic people are on welfare.
8% of all white, non hispanic people are in poverty.

You can see that in both cases there are more people on welfare than in poverty. Cuddely_battleship is using the statistic incorrectly, he's interepreting them wrong, and he (or his source) is not honest about the big picture and what the statistics actually mean.

So no, I didn't shoot myself in the foot.

Sources:

http://www.census.gov/hhes/poverty/p.../povrac96.html
http://www.census.gov/population/cen...c-t9/tab01.txt
http://www.census.gov/hhes/poverty/p.../povrac96.html
http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/welfare/sipp_papers.html
http://pdf2html.pootwerdie.com/pdf2h...70s/p70-77.pdf (pdf 2 html)

[Cuddley_Battleship]

You said the large number of blacks in poverty was the result of more crime from them, but there are more whites in poverty than blacks by a 2:1 ratio, but this doesn't cancel out the disparity. If crime stems from poverty, then why don't all the whites in poverty cancel out the crime from the blacks in poverty? They don't, not by a longshot. 13% of the population murdered more than 70% of the population, and there are more whites in poverty than blacks so that argument doesn't cut it.

[s|k]

Originally Posted by Cuddley_Battleship

You said the large number of blacks in poverty was the result of more crime from them, but there are more whites in poverty than blacks by a 2:1 ratio, but this doesn't cancel out the disparity. If crime stems from poverty, then why don't all the whites in poverty cancel out the crime from the blacks in poverty? They don't, not by a longshot. 13% of the population murdered more than 70% of the population, and there are more whites in poverty than blacks so that argument doesn't cut it.

No, you're right they don't explain everything. Statistics don't explain everything. Poor whites don't face the same levels of discrimination that poor blacks do. Poor whites are not subject to the same levels of institutional discrimination and are not faced with racist attitudes like yours. The experience of poverty is different for blacks and whites. Poor whites tend to live in rural areas and poor blacks tend to live in inner city areas. Poor blacks also tend to live in areas with higher concentration of poverty such as the Mississippi Delta, one of the poorest areas on the North American continent. There are many contributing factors to social phenomena. What isn't one though is racial genetics.

So, you're right, poverty is not the only answer, but I only said it was positively related to crime: that as poverty increases so does crime. I never said it was the only factor. Overt and implicit racism in people and institutions create a wholly different environment for black Americans than whites. You're more likely to be deviant when you don't believe the system works in your favor. Your implicit suggestion that some sort of inherent trait in black people lead them to be more violent and likely to commit crimes is incorrect.