User Name
Password

Go Back   Planetarion Forums > Non Planetarion Discussions > General Discussions

Reply
Thread Tools Display Modes
Unread 13 Dec 2005, 04:22   #1
1-X
overtired
 
1-X's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 5,901
1-X has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.1-X has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.1-X has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.1-X has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.1-X has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.1-X has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.1-X has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.1-X has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.1-X has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.1-X has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.1-X has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Stanley "Tookie" Williams (hey dda!)

ubiquitious bbc link

It seems to me that regardless of whether he was guilty, and regardless of what relatives of the dead might think, after a quarter of a century in jail this man had apparently grown, matured, and turned his back on gang culture. In an enlightened society, he might be considered for release, or at least moved to more comfortable conditions to serve a full life sentence.

Instead, governor Arnie has "wrestled with the profound consequences" and refused clemency (vote winner++). He'll die in 5 hours. If he remained alive, he'd continue his writing, maybe influence others for the better and save lives. For a country that claims to have a believing christian majority, it beggars belief.

What's with the 25 year wait before execution too? It's like people sat around and thought "what's the most inhumane way we can do this?"

However, I'm hoping dda will have some interesting background info for this story, as I suspect the way it's being reported, that America is executing a rehabilitated man, might not be quite the injustice it appears.
1-X is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 13 Dec 2005, 09:07   #2
Radical Edward
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: South Pacific
Posts: 4,911
Radical Edward needs a job and a girlfriendRadical Edward needs a job and a girlfriendRadical Edward needs a job and a girlfriendRadical Edward needs a job and a girlfriendRadical Edward needs a job and a girlfriendRadical Edward needs a job and a girlfriendRadical Edward needs a job and a girlfriendRadical Edward needs a job and a girlfriendRadical Edward needs a job and a girlfriendRadical Edward needs a job and a girlfriendRadical Edward needs a job and a girlfriend
Re: Stanley "Tookie" Williams (hey dda!)

I guess it is too late for him now, but I really really hope it turns out that he (or any other person seeking clemency) is found to be innocent while Schwarzenegger is Guvernor.
__________________
I think it's time we blow this scene, get everybody and the stuff together..........

ok 3..... 2..... 1.. let's jam
Radical Edward is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 13 Dec 2005, 09:57   #3
Dante Hicks
Clerk
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 13,941
Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: Stanley "Tookie" Williams (hey dda!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Radical Edward
but I really really hope it turns out that he (or any other person seeking clemency) is found to be innocent while Schwarzenegger is Guvernor.
Executing this guy does seem to be a pretty poor decision (at best) but to be fair, he did found a large violent gang and therefore presumably was involved in at least some murders / violence at some point. This is not to say he deserves to be executed, or that "everyone is guilty of something" or anything like that, but it's hardly likely to be one of those cases where he was a regular dude who got framed by the police for random reasons.

I consider myself a libertarian and obviously oppose the state killing people - however I do not quite understand the strength of feeling that capital punishment in the United States seems to invoke in some. Recently the Americans executed their thousand post-1976 convict. A thousand people over the course of 29 years (or 34 a year). In many ways, that's a lot, and some see it as a terrible indictment of the violence of the system. But in many ways, and no disrespect to the people executed, it's a drop in the ocean.

How many people killed in Iraq? How many people killed in South East Asia? Or by client regimes in Central America? Hell, even if we're saying that American lives are worth many times more than mere foreigners, how about simply deaths in prisons generally?

I understand this has got much better recently but according to a random google, the suicide rate for prisoners in America in 1983 was 129 per 100,000. Given the prison rate was about a million or so that dwarfs the death penalty rate in a single year. Homicides in prison (which again, have dropped) were 54 per 100,000 (so again, in 1983, more people were murdered in prison than the state of Texas - the biggest user of the death penalty by far - has executed in the last 29 years).

I'm not saying the death penalty is a good thing, but I am baffled that some people seem particularly horrified when someone is given a (relatively) painless death but when many more are shanked in the shower (or whatever) or simply hang themselves it's not a big concern. This is not to speak of the people who die in prison simply of ill-health (which of course is pretty much the point of a true life sentence).
Dante Hicks is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 13 Dec 2005, 10:17   #4
Jonas
Most unimportant guy...
 
Jonas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Kvinesdal
Posts: 1,393
Jonas has a reputation beyond reputeJonas has a reputation beyond reputeJonas has a reputation beyond reputeJonas has a reputation beyond reputeJonas has a reputation beyond reputeJonas has a reputation beyond reputeJonas has a reputation beyond reputeJonas has a reputation beyond reputeJonas has a reputation beyond reputeJonas has a reputation beyond reputeJonas has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Stanley "Tookie" Williams (hey dda!)

He killed 4 people. He was found guilty and sentenced to death...

Just because he improved, wrote books and was "known", his punishment shouldnt change. Theres probably lots of people whos regretted what they did and become good persons while waiting for execution, which we never hear of. What about them? They wouldnt be worse people, and should be threathed the same way as he, if he had been saved. To me it doesnt seem fair... as im sure many good unkown people have been executed.

On the other hand, maybe noone shud be executed. I honestly dont know what I think about that tho, so I dont wanna discuss it.
__________________
When we discover the centre of the universe, alot of people will be shocked and dissapointed to know that they are not it!

Retired
Jonas is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 13 Dec 2005, 10:23   #5
Radical Edward
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: South Pacific
Posts: 4,911
Radical Edward needs a job and a girlfriendRadical Edward needs a job and a girlfriendRadical Edward needs a job and a girlfriendRadical Edward needs a job and a girlfriendRadical Edward needs a job and a girlfriendRadical Edward needs a job and a girlfriendRadical Edward needs a job and a girlfriendRadical Edward needs a job and a girlfriendRadical Edward needs a job and a girlfriendRadical Edward needs a job and a girlfriendRadical Edward needs a job and a girlfriend
Re: Stanley "Tookie" Williams (hey dda!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante Hicks
Executing this guy does seem to be a pretty poor decision (at best) but to be fair, he did found a large violent gang and therefore presumably was involved in at least some murders / violence at some point. This is not to say he deserves to be executed, or that "everyone is guilty of something" or anything like that, but it's hardly likely to be one of those cases where he was a regular dude who got framed by the police for random reasons.
oh I agree, he probably did some very nasty stuff in his time, but is is this offence that he has been executed for.
Quote:
I consider myself a libertarian and obviously oppose the state killing people - however I do not quite understand the strength of feeling that capital punishment in the United States seems to invoke in some. Recently the Americans executed their thousand post-1976 convict. A thousand people over the course of 29 years (or 34 a year). In many ways, that's a lot, and some see it as a terrible indictment of the violence of the system. But in many ways, and no disrespect to the people executed, it's a drop in the ocean.

How many people killed in Iraq? How many people killed in South East Asia? Or by client regimes in Central America? Hell, even if we're saying that American lives are worth many times more than mere foreigners, how about simply deaths in prisons generally?

I understand this has got much better recently but according to a random google, the suicide rate for prisoners in America in 1983 was 129 per 100,000. Given the prison rate was about a million or so that dwarfs the death penalty rate in a single year. Homicides in prison (which again, have dropped) were 54 per 100,000 (so again, in 1983, more people were murdered in prison than the state of Texas - the biggest user of the death penalty by far - has executed in the last 29 years).

I'm not saying the death penalty is a good thing, but I am baffled that some people seem particularly horrified when someone is given a (relatively) painless death but when many more are shanked in the shower (or whatever) or simply hang themselves it's not a big concern. This is not to speak of the people who die in prison simply of ill-health (which of course is pretty much the point of a true life sentence).
true, though personally I don't care about the numbers, it is more the moral stance of it. they could have executed tens of thousands of people or even just a single person in the past 30 years, but fundamentally the system that allows, condones and even implements such things I feel, is wrong.
__________________
I think it's time we blow this scene, get everybody and the stuff together..........

ok 3..... 2..... 1.. let's jam
Radical Edward is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 13 Dec 2005, 12:30   #6
Ramihyn
Emperor
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: in front of a computer
Posts: 490
Ramihyn has much to be proud ofRamihyn has much to be proud ofRamihyn has much to be proud ofRamihyn has much to be proud ofRamihyn has much to be proud ofRamihyn has much to be proud ofRamihyn has much to be proud ofRamihyn has much to be proud ofRamihyn has much to be proud of
Re: Stanley "Tookie" Williams (hey dda!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Radical Edward
oh I agree, he probably did some very nasty stuff in his time, but is is this offence that he has been executed for.
Check the last paragraph of this article about his previous clemency plea in 2002 here http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...11/BA91326.DTL

Williams didnt confess the crimes he was found guilty for and therefore also didnt regret them.

If you believe his trial and his conviction where fair and that he actually did murder those people - how can you grant clemency to somebody who murdered several people and doesnt admit it nor ever regrets it? Can you really grant clemency to a multiple murder who doesnt regret what he has done?

It is a whole different story if you think he wasnt guilty of the crimes and actually was innocent in which case the US just had the ultimate failure of their justice system.

To me the decision mostly depends if you believe he was guilty of the crimes he was convicted for or not. I personally cant judge that since i havent studied the case, but since after his conviction and many appeals and throughout 25 years none of his lawyers nor himself could convince different judges and juries - i guess it is more likely that he is guilty than innocent.

A tough decision but i can fully understand Schwarzenegger - people seem to forget too quickly the dead people and their relatives over a bunch of written books.
Ramihyn is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 13 Dec 2005, 12:46   #7
Knight Theamion
Miles Teg
 
Knight Theamion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Dom City
Posts: 5,191
Knight Theamion is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himKnight Theamion is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himKnight Theamion is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himKnight Theamion is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himKnight Theamion is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himKnight Theamion is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himKnight Theamion is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himKnight Theamion is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himKnight Theamion is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himKnight Theamion is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himKnight Theamion is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like him
Re: Stanley "Tookie" Williams (hey dda!)

The law is not there to give satisfaction for the victims but to act as a deterrent.
Also, the law is there for the system, the victims aren't important as such as they are interchangable.


He should've ofcourse admitted his wrongs if he ever wanted a chance for clemency.







ps. Ofcourse there is some kind of satisfaction for the victims to see the perpetrator punished, however, that is not the final aim of any law. Or well, it shouldn't.
__________________
Audentes Fortuna Iuvat
Knight Theamion is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 13 Dec 2005, 13:00   #8
wu_trax
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,290
wu_trax is a pillar of this Internet societywu_trax is a pillar of this Internet societywu_trax is a pillar of this Internet societywu_trax is a pillar of this Internet societywu_trax is a pillar of this Internet societywu_trax is a pillar of this Internet societywu_trax is a pillar of this Internet societywu_trax is a pillar of this Internet societywu_trax is a pillar of this Internet societywu_trax is a pillar of this Internet societywu_trax is a pillar of this Internet society
Re: Stanley "Tookie" Williams (hey dda!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramihyn
Check the last paragraph of this article about his previous clemency plea in 2002 here http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...11/BA91326.DTL

Williams didnt confess the crimes he was found guilty for and therefore also didnt regret them.

If you believe his trial and his conviction where fair and that he actually did murder those people - how can you grant clemency to somebody who murdered several people and doesnt admit it nor ever regrets it? Can you really grant clemency to a multiple murder who doesnt regret what he has done?

It is a whole different story if you think he wasnt guilty of the crimes and actually was innocent in which case the US just had the ultimate failure of their justice system.

To me the decision mostly depends if you believe he was guilty of the crimes he was convicted for or not. I personally cant judge that since i havent studied the case, but since after his conviction and many appeals and throughout 25 years none of his lawyers nor himself could convince different judges and juries - i guess it is more likely that he is guilty than innocent.

A tough decision but i can fully understand Schwarzenegger - people seem to forget too quickly the dead people and their relatives over a bunch of written books.
well, you can also question wether or not the death penalty itself is such a great idea or if it isnt enough to throw someone into jail for most of his live.
Either you decide that killing people is bad and you dont do it or you dont. It really doesnt make much of a difference if we talk about a single person or a whole society.
__________________
im not tolerant, i just dont care.
wu_trax is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 13 Dec 2005, 13:07   #9
Dante Hicks
Clerk
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 13,941
Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: Stanley "Tookie" Williams (hey dda!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by wu_trax
Either you decide that killing people is bad and you dont do it or you dont. It really doesnt make much of a difference if we talk about a single person or a whole society.
That's a bit of a simplification though. Killing people might be appropriate in certain circumstances, but not others. Locking people up is wrong in certain circumstances, but justified in others, etc, etc.

Killing someone in self-defence is totally different from killing someone for a laugh (for instance). Although I do agree there shouldn't really be a distinction (from an ethical point of view) between the state and the individual in the sense some give it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Knight Theamion
The law is not there to give satisfaction for the victims but to act as a deterrent.
That's not the only purpose of the law (or more precisely punishment).
Dante Hicks is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 13 Dec 2005, 13:15   #10
Nadar
I see you!
 
Nadar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: In any girl
Posts: 2,825
Nadar needs a job and a girlfriendNadar needs a job and a girlfriendNadar needs a job and a girlfriendNadar needs a job and a girlfriendNadar needs a job and a girlfriendNadar needs a job and a girlfriendNadar needs a job and a girlfriendNadar needs a job and a girlfriendNadar needs a job and a girlfriendNadar needs a job and a girlfriendNadar needs a job and a girlfriend
Re: Stanley "Tookie" Williams (hey dda!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonas
He killed 4 people. He was found guilty and sentenced to death...

Just because he improved, wrote books and was "known", his punishment shouldnt change. Theres probably lots of people whos regretted what they did and become good persons while waiting for execution, which we never hear of. What about them? They wouldnt be worse people, and should be threathed the same way as he, if he had been saved. To me it doesnt seem fair... as im sure many good unkown people have been executed.

On the other hand, maybe noone shud be executed. I honestly dont know what I think about that tho, so I dont wanna discuss it.
He was known because he managed to influence a lot of "dangerous/violent" people into becoming good persons. This guy was better alive than dead.

To the question about having excecutions or not: Not. It's better to let them sit on a cell the rest of their lifes than excecuting them. I know I would rather die than sit in jail the rest of my life. Death punishment is much less of a penality than letting them sit in rest of their lifes imo.
__________________
www.foxystoat.com
Nadar is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 13 Dec 2005, 13:43   #11
mist
Jolt's best friend
 
mist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,101
mist is a name known to allmist is a name known to allmist is a name known to allmist is a name known to allmist is a name known to allmist is a name known to all
Re: Stanley "Tookie" Williams (hey dda!)

i'm unsure as to why you have to admit to doing something to regret having done it.
__________________
<Karmulian> subtle as a kick in the nuts as always
mist is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 13 Dec 2005, 13:44   #12
eJohn
Tiny Dancer
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Yellow Brick Road
Posts: 355
eJohn is a splendid one to beholdeJohn is a splendid one to beholdeJohn is a splendid one to beholdeJohn is a splendid one to beholdeJohn is a splendid one to beholdeJohn is a splendid one to beholdeJohn is a splendid one to behold
Re: Stanley "Tookie" Williams (hey dda!)

I'm against the death penalty in general, but if this man had been let off simply because he had a few famous friends who got him some publicity, and because he's supposedly converted, "Death" wouldnt mean "death" any more. Someone could kill people, show that theyve repented, get one of the Baldwin brothers to go "umm, dont kill him please. also ps plz hire me. i do nude ", and be spared.
__________________
[16:09] <eJohn> im still standing
eJohn is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 13 Dec 2005, 13:47   #13
Radical Edward
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: South Pacific
Posts: 4,911
Radical Edward needs a job and a girlfriendRadical Edward needs a job and a girlfriendRadical Edward needs a job and a girlfriendRadical Edward needs a job and a girlfriendRadical Edward needs a job and a girlfriendRadical Edward needs a job and a girlfriendRadical Edward needs a job and a girlfriendRadical Edward needs a job and a girlfriendRadical Edward needs a job and a girlfriendRadical Edward needs a job and a girlfriendRadical Edward needs a job and a girlfriend
Re: Stanley "Tookie" Williams (hey dda!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mist
i'm unsure as to why you have to admit to doing something to regret having done it.
it's letting people know.
__________________
I think it's time we blow this scene, get everybody and the stuff together..........

ok 3..... 2..... 1.. let's jam
Radical Edward is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 13 Dec 2005, 14:08   #14
wu_trax
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,290
wu_trax is a pillar of this Internet societywu_trax is a pillar of this Internet societywu_trax is a pillar of this Internet societywu_trax is a pillar of this Internet societywu_trax is a pillar of this Internet societywu_trax is a pillar of this Internet societywu_trax is a pillar of this Internet societywu_trax is a pillar of this Internet societywu_trax is a pillar of this Internet societywu_trax is a pillar of this Internet societywu_trax is a pillar of this Internet society
Re: Stanley "Tookie" Williams (hey dda!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante Hicks
That's a bit of a simplification though. Killing people might be appropriate in certain circumstances, but not others. Locking people up is wrong in certain circumstances, but justified in others, etc, etc.

Killing someone in self-defence is totally different from killing someone for a laugh (for instance). Although I do agree there shouldn't really be a distinction (from an ethical point of view) between the state and the individual in the sense some give it.
yes, that probably was a simplification. To say it in other words: a human live is something valuable, so you dont end it. If a state or governemnt or society or whatever you want to call it ends human lives, no matter what reason, they become less valuable.
(and, yes, locking pople up in small rooms is also bad, but you need to do something...)
__________________
im not tolerant, i just dont care.
wu_trax is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 13 Dec 2005, 14:47   #15
Marilyn Manson
Gone
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 14,659
Marilyn Manson has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Marilyn Manson has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Marilyn Manson has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Marilyn Manson has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Marilyn Manson has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Marilyn Manson has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Marilyn Manson has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Marilyn Manson has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Marilyn Manson has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Marilyn Manson has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Marilyn Manson has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Exclamation Re: Stanley "Tookie" Williams (hey dda!)

He wouldn't have been fully pardononed in a million years, but he could have - and should have - had his sentence commuted to life.
Marilyn Manson is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 13 Dec 2005, 14:50   #16
acropolis
Vermin Supreme
 
acropolis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 3,280
acropolis single handedly makes these forums a better placeacropolis single handedly makes these forums a better placeacropolis single handedly makes these forums a better placeacropolis single handedly makes these forums a better placeacropolis single handedly makes these forums a better placeacropolis single handedly makes these forums a better placeacropolis single handedly makes these forums a better placeacropolis single handedly makes these forums a better placeacropolis single handedly makes these forums a better placeacropolis single handedly makes these forums a better placeacropolis single handedly makes these forums a better place
Re: Stanley "Tookie" Williams (hey dda!)

in general i agree with dante. i used to oppose it on foreign policy grounds; "it's-wrong-to-torture-people-but-it's-okay-to-kill-them" seeming like a tough sell. but anymore what we're saying is "it's-wrong-to-torture-people-but-it's-okay-to-torture-people" and the death penalty thing seems silly.

i still think it's morally wrong, but even with respect to our prison system, it's hard to justify it as a high priority issue. Last year there were on the order of 50 executions and on the order of 1,000,000 rapes.
acropolis is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 13 Dec 2005, 16:24   #17
Tactitus
Klaatu barada nikto
 
Tactitus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: St. Paul, Minnesota
Posts: 3,238
Tactitus spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldTactitus spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldTactitus spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldTactitus spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldTactitus spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldTactitus spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldTactitus spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldTactitus spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldTactitus spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldTactitus spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldTactitus spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus would
Exclamation Re: Stanley "Tookie" Williams (hey dda!)

I can't really see how people can say he was rehabilitated.

He never apologized for the crimes he was sentenced for. He always maintained his innocence, so fair enough, but then it's a question of whether or not you believe the (considerable) evidence against him. And if you believe the evidence, then his failure to admit and apologize for his crimes must surely weigh heavily against him.

He expressed regret for founding the Crips gang but refused to give police any information that could have helped them arrest and prosecute members of the Crips.

He wrote (actually co-wrote) some children's books deploring gangs and gang violence.


You can read the LA County DA's (lengthy) response to Tookie's clemency petition here, which includes a review of the evidence which convicted him.


I can respect those who oppose the death sentence as a matter of principle. I have a harder time with those who claim Tookie was innocent or rehabilitated.
__________________
The Ottawa Citizen and Southam News wish to apologize for our apology to Mark Steyn, published Oct. 22. In correcting the incorrect statements about Mr. Steyn published Oct. 15, we incorrectly published the incorrect correction. We accept and regret that our original regrets were unacceptable and we apologize to Mr. Steyn for any distress caused by our previous apology.
Tactitus is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 13 Dec 2005, 17:45   #18
mist
Jolt's best friend
 
mist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,101
mist is a name known to allmist is a name known to allmist is a name known to allmist is a name known to allmist is a name known to allmist is a name known to all
Re: Stanley "Tookie" Williams (hey dda!)

There's a difference between rehabilitated and more useful alive than dead.
life imprisonment, the alternative, hardly implies rehabilitated.
__________________
<Karmulian> subtle as a kick in the nuts as always
mist is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 13 Dec 2005, 17:57   #19
JonnyBGood
Banned
 
JonnyBGood's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Further to the right
Posts: 19,441
JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: Stanley "Tookie" Williams (hey dda!)

The amusing, and interesting, thing is that if there hadn't been a twenty five year wait he wouldn't have had the chance to co-author those books against gangs or whatever the hell crap people are using to oppose this specific death sentence.



PS Will Ahnold be killing the guy himself? With the shotgun from Terminator II?
__________________
Some might ask what good is life without purpose but I'm anticipating a good lunch.
JonnyBGood is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 13 Dec 2005, 18:28   #20
Marilyn Manson
Gone
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 14,659
Marilyn Manson has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Marilyn Manson has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Marilyn Manson has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Marilyn Manson has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Marilyn Manson has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Marilyn Manson has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Marilyn Manson has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Marilyn Manson has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Marilyn Manson has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Marilyn Manson has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Marilyn Manson has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Exclamation Re: Stanley "Tookie" Williams (hey dda!)

He's already dead you poo-paddler.
Marilyn Manson is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 13 Dec 2005, 18:35   #21
JonnyBGood
Banned
 
JonnyBGood's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Further to the right
Posts: 19,441
JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: Stanley "Tookie" Williams (hey dda!)

Oh dear what a pity never mind.
__________________
Some might ask what good is life without purpose but I'm anticipating a good lunch.
JonnyBGood is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 13 Dec 2005, 18:43   #22
Marilyn Manson
Gone
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 14,659
Marilyn Manson has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Marilyn Manson has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Marilyn Manson has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Marilyn Manson has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Marilyn Manson has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Marilyn Manson has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Marilyn Manson has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Marilyn Manson has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Marilyn Manson has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Marilyn Manson has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Marilyn Manson has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Exclamation Re: Stanley "Tookie" Williams (hey dda!)

It's not a pity. Necrophilia is now possible.
Marilyn Manson is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 13 Dec 2005, 20:05   #23
Ramihyn
Emperor
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: in front of a computer
Posts: 490
Ramihyn has much to be proud ofRamihyn has much to be proud ofRamihyn has much to be proud ofRamihyn has much to be proud ofRamihyn has much to be proud ofRamihyn has much to be proud ofRamihyn has much to be proud ofRamihyn has much to be proud ofRamihyn has much to be proud of
Re: Stanley "Tookie" Williams (hey dda!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mist
There's a difference between rehabilitated and more useful alive than dead.
life imprisonment, the alternative, hardly implies rehabilitated.
Both sentences for sure are true, so if Gov. Schwarzenegger would have been asked to judge if the guy was more useful to society dead or alive, things might have come out different. Didnt matter regarding a clemency appeal for a convicted multiple murder who couldnt even make the first step necessary for forgiveness - admitting what he did.

On a related sidenote - several french citizens are just beeing "rehabilitated" as they did spend a total of 26 years in prison together, their children where taken from them and they where publicly seen as some of the most cruel child molesters on this planet. The french minister of justice publicly apologised to them in his official position and there will be several consequences affecting the law process in france due to this. Some scandalous things happened during this case and it certainly would deserve at least as much publicity as the Williams case, but i bet most havent heard a word about it

ps: its amazing how ignorant people running "for a cause" are. I just heard a commentary in a german radio station regarding the Williams case and the journalist kept making snappy remarks towards Schwarzenegger and how of course he couldnt meet with Williams before making the decision as otherwise he would have noticed that Williams was a human beeing and not somebody he can slaughter away like a Terminator in his movies. Too bad that Williams himself said that he met Schwarzenegger at Venice Beach long time ago.

Last edited by Ramihyn; 13 Dec 2005 at 20:13.
Ramihyn is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 13 Dec 2005, 20:08   #24
Kurashima
Has Soup On His Head
 
Kurashima's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 10,096
Kurashima has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Kurashima has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Kurashima has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Kurashima has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Kurashima has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Kurashima has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Kurashima has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Kurashima has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Kurashima has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Kurashima has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Kurashima has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: Stanley "Tookie" Williams (hey dda!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tactitus
I can't really see how people can say he was rehabilitated.

He never apologized for the crimes he was sentenced for. He always maintained his innocence, so fair enough, but then it's a question of whether or not you believe the (considerable) evidence against him. And if you believe the evidence, then his failure to admit and apologize for his crimes must surely weigh heavily against him.

He expressed regret for founding the Crips gang but refused to give police any information that could have helped them arrest and prosecute members of the Crips.

He wrote (actually co-wrote) some children's books deploring gangs and gang violence.


You can read the LA County DA's (lengthy) response to Tookie's clemency petition here, which includes a review of the evidence which convicted him.


I can respect those who oppose the death sentence as a matter of principle. I have a harder time with those who claim Tookie was innocent or rehabilitated.
Evidence against a Black Man of any description , which has been provided by the LAPD , a force with a history of racism, has a lot less weight than it would anywhere else.

However he was found guilty by a jury of his peers, and Schwarzenegger respected that. Actually, he probably didnt understand the argument and was told not to give him clemency, as it would damage his chances of re-election (like the budget deficit and power outages havent done that already).

Either way,
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4523502.stm
hes dead now and all thats left is the obligatory 2 days of the new york press debating the death penalty and 48 hours worth of rioting and excessive force from the LAPD.

American society seems to repeat itself over and over again on the West Coast. Doesnt anyone actually learn from the mistakes of their recent history?
__________________
And the Banker, inspired with a courage so new
It was matter for general remark,
Rushed madly ahead and was lost to their view
In his zeal to discover the Snark
Kurashima is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 13 Dec 2005, 20:14   #25
JonnyBGood
Banned
 
JonnyBGood's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Further to the right
Posts: 19,441
JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: Stanley "Tookie" Williams (hey dda!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurashima
Evidence against a Black Man of any description , which has been provided by the LAPD , a force with a history of racism, has a lot less weight than it would anywhere else.
:rolleyes:
__________________
Some might ask what good is life without purpose but I'm anticipating a good lunch.
JonnyBGood is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 13 Dec 2005, 20:19   #26
Ramihyn
Emperor
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: in front of a computer
Posts: 490
Ramihyn has much to be proud ofRamihyn has much to be proud ofRamihyn has much to be proud ofRamihyn has much to be proud ofRamihyn has much to be proud ofRamihyn has much to be proud ofRamihyn has much to be proud ofRamihyn has much to be proud ofRamihyn has much to be proud of
Re: Stanley "Tookie" Williams (hey dda!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurashima
However he was found guilty by a jury of his peers, and Schwarzenegger respected that. Actually, he probably didnt understand the argument and was told not to give him clemency, as it would damage his chances of re-election (like the budget deficit and power outages havent done that already).
I have the bad feeling that given this case, his history of denied clemencies and "political tradition" Gov. Schwarzeneggers campaign team is already looking for the right one to grant clemency to - just to the right time.
Ramihyn is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 13 Dec 2005, 20:22   #27
Ramihyn
Emperor
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: in front of a computer
Posts: 490
Ramihyn has much to be proud ofRamihyn has much to be proud ofRamihyn has much to be proud ofRamihyn has much to be proud ofRamihyn has much to be proud ofRamihyn has much to be proud ofRamihyn has much to be proud ofRamihyn has much to be proud ofRamihyn has much to be proud of
Re: Stanley "Tookie" Williams (hey dda!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
The ad hominem is not to be confused with various measures that are prudent to take when delegating cognition to others, such as checking people's credentials before relying on their testimony.

(bottom of your linked page)
Ramihyn is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 13 Dec 2005, 20:29   #28
JonnyBGood
Banned
 
JonnyBGood's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Further to the right
Posts: 19,441
JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: Stanley "Tookie" Williams (hey dda!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramihyn
The ad hominem is not to be confused with various measures that are prudent to take when delegating cognition to others, such as checking people's credentials before relying on their testimony.

(bottom of your linked page)

I THINK THE US COURTS MIGHT HAVE CHECKED THAT BEFORE THEY EXECUTED THE GUY CONSIDERING THEY WAITED TWENTY FIVE ****ING YEARS, DON'T YOU?


Apologies for bold and caps lock but I felt it conveyed my point rather well.
__________________
Some might ask what good is life without purpose but I'm anticipating a good lunch.
JonnyBGood is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 13 Dec 2005, 20:50   #29
Ramihyn
Emperor
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: in front of a computer
Posts: 490
Ramihyn has much to be proud ofRamihyn has much to be proud ofRamihyn has much to be proud ofRamihyn has much to be proud ofRamihyn has much to be proud ofRamihyn has much to be proud ofRamihyn has much to be proud ofRamihyn has much to be proud ofRamihyn has much to be proud of
Re: Stanley "Tookie" Williams (hey dda!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
I THINK THE US COURTS MIGHT HAVE CHECKED THAT BEFORE THEY EXECUTED THE GUY CONSIDERING THEY WAITED TWENTY FIVE ****ING YEARS, DON'T YOU?
I personally think thats pretty likely (not so much the US courts but the lawyers of Mr. Williams) - and i mentioned that in a previous posting. However your reply was pointed at somebody who obviously thinks differently and therefore what i cited applys
Ramihyn is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 13 Dec 2005, 20:56   #30
JonnyBGood
Banned
 
JonnyBGood's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Further to the right
Posts: 19,441
JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: Stanley "Tookie" Williams (hey dda!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramihyn
I personally think thats pretty likely (not so much the US courts but the lawyers of Mr. Williams) - and i mentioned that in a previous posting. However your reply was pointed at somebody who obviously thinks differently and therefore what i cited applys
I think it's more the failure of the thinking process rather the difference of it we should be pointing out here.
__________________
Some might ask what good is life without purpose but I'm anticipating a good lunch.
JonnyBGood is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 13 Dec 2005, 21:04   #31
Tactitus
Klaatu barada nikto
 
Tactitus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: St. Paul, Minnesota
Posts: 3,238
Tactitus spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldTactitus spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldTactitus spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldTactitus spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldTactitus spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldTactitus spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldTactitus spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldTactitus spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldTactitus spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldTactitus spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldTactitus spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus would
Exclamation Re: Stanley "Tookie" Williams (hey dda!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mist
There's a difference between rehabilitated and more useful alive than dead.
More useful to whom? Who gets to decide which inmates on death row are useful and which are not? And by what standard?

And what does it mean to say that someone is more useful alive than dead? At one extreme you could argue that everyone is potentially more useful alive than dead--in the sense that anyone might do something wonderful in the future (discover some great invention, paint a masterpiece, etc). This would seem to quickly devolve into a no-death-penalty argument--is that what you meant? Towards the other extreme we could give each inmate on death row, say, five years to demonstrate their 'usefulness'. If they can't sell enough inventions or books or whatever then it's off to the execution chamber. Literally, publish or perish. :/

That would have a disturbing utilitarian aspect, in that the death penalty would be enforced not on the basis of the acts of the criminals, but on their talents as artists, authors, etc. (i.e., their usefulness). Frankly, that seems to me ultimately more dehumanizing than simply killing them (we're killing you because you're an unrepentant brutal multiple-murderer and your poetry sucks).
__________________
The Ottawa Citizen and Southam News wish to apologize for our apology to Mark Steyn, published Oct. 22. In correcting the incorrect statements about Mr. Steyn published Oct. 15, we incorrectly published the incorrect correction. We accept and regret that our original regrets were unacceptable and we apologize to Mr. Steyn for any distress caused by our previous apology.
Tactitus is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 13 Dec 2005, 21:25   #32
acropolis
Vermin Supreme
 
acropolis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 3,280
acropolis single handedly makes these forums a better placeacropolis single handedly makes these forums a better placeacropolis single handedly makes these forums a better placeacropolis single handedly makes these forums a better placeacropolis single handedly makes these forums a better placeacropolis single handedly makes these forums a better placeacropolis single handedly makes these forums a better placeacropolis single handedly makes these forums a better placeacropolis single handedly makes these forums a better placeacropolis single handedly makes these forums a better placeacropolis single handedly makes these forums a better place
Re: Stanley "Tookie" Williams (hey dda!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tactitus
That would have a disturbing utilitarian aspect, in that the death penalty would be enforced not on the basis of the acts of the criminals, but on their talents as artists, authors, etc. (i.e., their usefulness). Frankly, that seems to me ultimately more dehumanizing than simply killing them (we're killing you because you're an unrepentant brutal multiple-murderer and your poetry sucks).
really there are three options,

1. End the death penalty
2. Your 'dehumanizing' utilitarian option
3. Mass suicide

Because even though the marginal case of a person slated for death upon whose continued existence humanity depends seems an irrelevant hypothetical, if you do say "we'll wait until that happens" you've already selected option 2.
acropolis is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 13 Dec 2005, 22:30   #33
Rinoa
Reject False Icons
 
Rinoa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Your Hotel.... Fee:$999
Posts: 896
Rinoa is a splendid one to beholdRinoa is a splendid one to beholdRinoa is a splendid one to beholdRinoa is a splendid one to beholdRinoa is a splendid one to beholdRinoa is a splendid one to beholdRinoa is a splendid one to behold
Re: Stanley "Tookie" Williams (hey dda!)

'mon the bloods!
__________________
The Illuminati- NoS
[]LCH[]- dc
-=Destiny=-
Wolfpack - Dc
xVx - DC
Apprime -_-
Rinoa is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 13 Dec 2005, 22:42   #34
Ste
Bored
 
Ste's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Nottm ->Shef ->Croydon ->Manc ->Durham ->Sheffield
Posts: 6,507
Ste has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Ste has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Ste has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Ste has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Ste has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Ste has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Ste has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Ste has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Ste has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Ste has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Ste has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: Stanley "Tookie" Williams (hey dda!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Knight Theamion
The law is not there to give satisfaction for the victims but to act as a deterrent.
yeh it works really well doesn't it
__________________
Wise men write because they have something to write about; fools write because they have to write something. - Plato

yeh so Plastic Brilliance is now known as FOXYSTOAT - Come on by and check it out!
Ste is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 13 Dec 2005, 22:45   #35
Banned
Banned
 
Banned's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: ******
Posts: 2,326
Banned contributes so much and asks for so littleBanned contributes so much and asks for so littleBanned contributes so much and asks for so littleBanned contributes so much and asks for so littleBanned contributes so much and asks for so littleBanned contributes so much and asks for so littleBanned contributes so much and asks for so littleBanned contributes so much and asks for so littleBanned contributes so much and asks for so littleBanned contributes so much and asks for so littleBanned contributes so much and asks for so little
Re: Stanley "Tookie" Williams (hey dda!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonas
He killed 4 people. He was found guilty and sentenced to death...

Just because he improved, wrote books and was "known", his punishment shouldnt change. Theres probably lots of people whos regretted what they did and become good persons while waiting for execution, which we never hear of. What about them? They wouldnt be worse people, and should be threathed the same way as he, if he had been saved. To me it doesnt seem fair... as im sure many good unkown people have been executed.
To me it seems that's exactly why he shouldn't be executed. The capital punishment (and excuse me while I google for a moment, I'd like something quotable* on this) was reinstated in 1976. An excerpt from the ruling:

Quote:
Originally Posted by ****ing Killers Said This
In extreme criminal cases, such as when a defendant has been convicted of deliberately killing another, the careful and judicious use of the death penalty may be appropriate if carefully employed. Georgia's death penalty statute assures the judicious and careful use of the death penalty by requiring a bifurcated proceeding where the trial and sentencing are conducted separately, specific jury findings as to the severity of the crime and the nature of the defendant (if he's black, let 'im dangle, Ed.), and a comparison of each capital sentence's circumstances with other similar cases. Moreover, the Court was not prepared to overrule the Georgia legislature's finding that capital punishment serves as a useful deterrent to future capital crimes and an appropriate means of social retribution against its most serious offenders.
Basically, the ruling backs Arnie. And to be honest, I think there are cases where the death penalty is justified. Serial killers, pathological killers or rapists, people who use <blink> or <marquee> tags on websites and spammers are all people that can't be reformed (ok, maybe not the blink/marquee people, but come on).

However, if you have any belief in a reformatory prison system, then is this not a (and I hesitate to call it this) text book example of the system working? I mean, up until the point where they injected poison into him. At that point it was a great example of the penal system finding the nature of the defendant appropriate to use as social retribution. If prison can't reform people, why the **** do we let them back out in the first place? At least the 3-strikes guys were consistent in their idiocy.

PS. Wikipedia says Tookie was his actual middle name, not some jolly pirate nickname.

* I said quotable damnit, not accurate.
Banned is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 13 Dec 2005, 22:57   #36
_Kila_
break it down!
 
_Kila_'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,087
_Kila_ is a pillar of this Internet society_Kila_ is a pillar of this Internet society_Kila_ is a pillar of this Internet society_Kila_ is a pillar of this Internet society_Kila_ is a pillar of this Internet society_Kila_ is a pillar of this Internet society_Kila_ is a pillar of this Internet society_Kila_ is a pillar of this Internet society_Kila_ is a pillar of this Internet society_Kila_ is a pillar of this Internet society_Kila_ is a pillar of this Internet society
Re: Stanley "Tookie" Williams (hey dda!)

Letting him off would invite more criminals to commit crimes and then pretend to have reformed.
Fact is, he killed 4 people, he has to be punished.
There are way too many people who can lie through their teeth to you and make it sound believable out there. I've met many people who lie to others (teachers) about things that occured, and if I hadn't witnessed the incident, I would have believed them.
How do you know he has reformed and hasn't just written books to make it seem so. How do you know he won't go back out there and kill more innocent people.
A leopard never changes it's spots.
_Kila_ is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 13 Dec 2005, 23:08   #37
Banned
Banned
 
Banned's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: ******
Posts: 2,326
Banned contributes so much and asks for so littleBanned contributes so much and asks for so littleBanned contributes so much and asks for so littleBanned contributes so much and asks for so littleBanned contributes so much and asks for so littleBanned contributes so much and asks for so littleBanned contributes so much and asks for so littleBanned contributes so much and asks for so littleBanned contributes so much and asks for so littleBanned contributes so much and asks for so littleBanned contributes so much and asks for so little
Re: Stanley "Tookie" Williams (hey dda!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by _Kila_
Letting him off would invite more criminals to commit crimes and then pretend to have reformed.
If they, for all intents and purposes, behave like reformed citizens because 'otherwise they're gonna ****ing nail me', that's fine by me. Let it be between them and whatever high power they swear by whether or not they're 'just doing it to stay alive'.

Quote:
Fact is, he killed 4 people, he has to be punished.
Here was me thinking life without parole was punishment.

Quote:
How do you know he has reformed and hasn't just written books to make it seem so. How do you know he won't go back out there and kill more innocent people.
A leopard never changes it's spots.
Woah. Woah there nelly. Who on earth said 'let him out'? I most certainly didn't. He can spend his life dying of prison disease for all I care. I mean, he didn't need to be outside to be a positive influence or 'reformed' did he?
Banned is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 14 Dec 2005, 01:07   #38
_Kila_
break it down!
 
_Kila_'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,087
_Kila_ is a pillar of this Internet society_Kila_ is a pillar of this Internet society_Kila_ is a pillar of this Internet society_Kila_ is a pillar of this Internet society_Kila_ is a pillar of this Internet society_Kila_ is a pillar of this Internet society_Kila_ is a pillar of this Internet society_Kila_ is a pillar of this Internet society_Kila_ is a pillar of this Internet society_Kila_ is a pillar of this Internet society_Kila_ is a pillar of this Internet society
Re: Stanley "Tookie" Williams (hey dda!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Banned
If they, for all intents and purposes, behave like reformed citizens because 'otherwise they're gonna ****ing nail me', that's fine by me. Let it be between them and whatever high power they swear by whether or not they're 'just doing it to stay alive'.
Here was me thinking life without parole was punishment.


Woah. Woah there nelly. Who on earth said 'let him out'? I most certainly didn't. He can spend his life dying of prison disease for all I care. I mean, he didn't need to be outside to be a positive influence or 'reformed' did he?
I kinda jumped headfirst into this argument, I saw the people on the news saying "release him" etc and "let him walk free" and assumed that the people here had the same views. I wouldn't care if he died in prison or was executed, I just don't want him released and want him punished.
_Kila_ is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 14 Dec 2005, 06:58   #39
QazokRouge5
Back from timeout.
 
QazokRouge5's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 906
QazokRouge5 is a jewel in the roughQazokRouge5 is a jewel in the roughQazokRouge5 is a jewel in the rough
Re: Stanley "Tookie" Williams (hey dda!)

The guy held up A 7-11 and shot a 51 year old veteran in the back with a shotgun twice. WHILE HE WAS LAYING DOWN ON THE GROUND.

He then held up a motel, and for the AWESOME SUM OF 100$ he shot and killed an asian man, his wife, and thier child.

Yeah, he really deserves to live for not regretting that.
__________________
Quote:
Originally posted by Marilyn Manson
You'll have to prise my penis from my cold, dead hand!
Quote:
Originally posted by Yahwe
Gay ducks only do it because it impresses their peers.
QazokRouge5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 14 Dec 2005, 12:45   #40
Proteus
Lord Denning
 
Proteus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: City of London
Posts: 2,550
Proteus needs a job and a girlfriendProteus needs a job and a girlfriendProteus needs a job and a girlfriendProteus needs a job and a girlfriendProteus needs a job and a girlfriendProteus needs a job and a girlfriendProteus needs a job and a girlfriendProteus needs a job and a girlfriendProteus needs a job and a girlfriendProteus needs a job and a girlfriendProteus needs a job and a girlfriend
Re: Stanley "Tookie" Williams (hey dda!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by QazokRouge5
The guy held up A 7-11 and shot a 51 year old veteran in the back with a shotgun twice. WHILE HE WAS LAYING DOWN ON THE GROUND.
Only in the US could the fact that his victim was a "veteran" have any relevance whatsoever to anything.

(And it's "lying", by the way, not "laying".)
__________________
Please bear in mind when reading the above post that I am always right.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marilyn Manson
He was crowned in York Cathedral as 'Expert in the West' by Pope Urban III in 1186.
Proteus is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 14 Dec 2005, 13:04   #41
Dante Hicks
Clerk
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 13,941
Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: Stanley "Tookie" Williams (hey dda!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Proteus
Only in the US could the fact that his victim was a "veteran" have any relevance whatsoever to anything.
I don't know, it's the sort of thing I can imagine reading in the Daily Mail or similar. "War hero beaten by thugs" and whatnot.
Dante Hicks is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 14 Dec 2005, 13:35   #42
JonnyBGood
Banned
 
JonnyBGood's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Further to the right
Posts: 19,441
JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: Stanley "Tookie" Williams (hey dda!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante Hicks
I don't know, it's the sort of thing I can imagine reading in the Daily Mail or similar. "War hero beaten by thugs" and whatnot.
Christian assaulted by liberal elite. Atheist establishment destroys christmas. Terrorists want your soul.

Frankly I don't think there's a headline I can't imagine reading in the Daily Mail.
__________________
Some might ask what good is life without purpose but I'm anticipating a good lunch.
JonnyBGood is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 14 Dec 2005, 14:04   #43
Phang
Aardvark is a funny word
 
Phang's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: I'm No Nino Rota
Posts: 5,924
Phang has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Phang has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Phang has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Phang has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Phang has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Phang has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Phang has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Phang has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Phang has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Phang has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Phang has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: Stanley "Tookie" Williams (hey dda!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by QazokRouge5
Yeah, he really deserves to live for not regretting that.
1)please tell me you think in terms of 'deserves to die' rather than 'deserves to live', because if your mindset is that people have to meet a standard to be spared rather than transgress to the point where they must be killed i think frankly its worth bombing your entire landmass from orbit just to make sure.

2)prove he did it.
__________________
Efficiency, efficiency they say
Get to know the date and tell the time of day
As the crowds begin complaining
How the Beaujolais is raining
Down on darkened meetings on the Champs Élysées
Phang is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 15 Dec 2005, 01:26   #44
dda
USS Oklahoma
 
dda's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,500
dda has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.dda has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.dda has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.dda has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.dda has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.dda has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.dda has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.dda has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.dda has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.dda has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.dda has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: Stanley "Tookie" Williams (hey dda!)

No tears for "Tookie".

I do not support the death penalty for totally non-moral reasons.

I do not like the death penalty because I believe it undermines peoples confidence in the justice system. Judges who are trying to avoid a death penalty to a particular individual are forever making questionable rulings that not only confuse and upset a large portion of the population but also lead to unanticipated consequences on every other criminal case that comes along thereafter.

However, I also believe that a society can and will protect itself in whatever manner it thinks necessary. As such, I accept that the death penalty is something which each political entity is entitled to make for itself.

Personally, I have never accepted a case to prosecute which could have resulted in the death penalty. However, not feeling it my position to superimpose my judgement for that of the people of the state of California, I have set in on a number of meetings where it was decided whether we should or should not seek the death peanalty in a particular case. I have voted that particular cases were proper cases, under our law and in the standards of my community, in which to seek the death penalty.

Tookie Williams was a viscious individual who spent most of his years before his arrest in the pursuit of violence and the spreading of the culture of violence through the Crips.

After he was convicted and sentenced Tookie:

June 30, 1981---Tookie kicked the crap out of another inmate.

January 26, 1982---Tookie threatened to kill or have killed a guard who was trying to get him to return to
his cell.

January 28, 1982---Tookie through chemical agents into the face and eyes of a guard causing chemical
burns and hospital treatment.

January 29. 1982---For the third time in two days, Tookie attacked a guard by throwing chemicals at a
guard.

February 16, 1984---The Tookster attacked another inmate and would not cease beating him until warning
shots were fired.

June 8, 1984---Tookie threatened to kill a guard.

July 4, 1986---Tookie attacked and beat a fellow inmate.

October 10, 1988---Williams was the victim of a stabbing attack which was in retaliation for stabbing of
another inmate by the Crips which Tookie had ordered.

December 24, 1991---Tookie again attacked and beat another inmate until warning shots were fired.

July 6, 1993---Tookie is involved in another fight where a shank was involved and would not cease and
desist until warning shots were fired.

All of this occurred while Tookie was on death row.

Tookie remained a member of the Crips up to his death as far as could be told by prison authorities.

Despite how he supposedly inspired so many to renounce gangs, he remains a role modle for gang members in the community. He never renounced the Crips or gave law enforcement any information on gang activities.

The judicial system looked at all of the claims of innocence and bad trial for 25 years and repeatedly judges, including the 9th District Circuit Court of Appeals, the most anti-death penalty court in America, and determined that the trial was fair and the evidence of guilt was overwhelming.

The fact that it took 25 years in not unusual here. We recently had a death penalty from this county overturned and the case returned for trial after 23 years.
__________________
Ignorance is curable, stupidity is not.
dda is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 15 Dec 2005, 01:34   #45
1-X
overtired
 
1-X's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 5,901
1-X has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.1-X has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.1-X has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.1-X has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.1-X has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.1-X has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.1-X has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.1-X has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.1-X has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.1-X has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.1-X has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: Stanley "Tookie" Williams (hey dda!)

That's exactly the sort of thing I expected. I'd read a lot of news stories portraying him as a reformed character doing good, and very little on his misdeeds. They gave the impression that those demanding his death were being small-minded because he didn't apologise/show remorse etc.

Thanks dda
1-X is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 15 Dec 2005, 06:52   #46
QazokRouge5
Back from timeout.
 
QazokRouge5's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 906
QazokRouge5 is a jewel in the roughQazokRouge5 is a jewel in the roughQazokRouge5 is a jewel in the rough
Re: Stanley "Tookie" Williams (hey dda!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Proteus
Only in the US could the fact that his victim was a "veteran" have any relevance whatsoever to anything.

(And it's "lying", by the way, not "laying".)
Wrong. You speak a different dialect of the english language.

Only in Europe\Britain do they not have respect for the people who served thier country and gave them freedom.
__________________
Quote:
Originally posted by Marilyn Manson
You'll have to prise my penis from my cold, dead hand!
Quote:
Originally posted by Yahwe
Gay ducks only do it because it impresses their peers.
QazokRouge5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 15 Dec 2005, 09:36   #47
Proteus
Lord Denning
 
Proteus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: City of London
Posts: 2,550
Proteus needs a job and a girlfriendProteus needs a job and a girlfriendProteus needs a job and a girlfriendProteus needs a job and a girlfriendProteus needs a job and a girlfriendProteus needs a job and a girlfriendProteus needs a job and a girlfriendProteus needs a job and a girlfriendProteus needs a job and a girlfriendProteus needs a job and a girlfriendProteus needs a job and a girlfriend
Re: Stanley "Tookie" Williams (hey dda!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by QazokRouge5
Wrong. You speak a different dialect of the english language.
No, you're simply illiterate.

(The American Heritage Dictionary labels your usage "nonstandard", which is a polite dictionary way of saying "wrong".)
__________________
Please bear in mind when reading the above post that I am always right.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marilyn Manson
He was crowned in York Cathedral as 'Expert in the West' by Pope Urban III in 1186.
Proteus is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 15 Dec 2005, 09:59   #48
JonnyBGood
Banned
 
JonnyBGood's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Further to the right
Posts: 19,441
JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: Stanley "Tookie" Williams (hey dda!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dda
January 28, 1982---Tookie through chemical agents into the face and eyes of a guard causing chemical
burns and hospital treatment.

January 29. 1982---For the third time in two days, Tookie attacked a guard by throwing chemicals at a
guard.
What the hell? They gave him more chemicals only a few days after he'd attacked a guard by throwing them in his face?
__________________
Some might ask what good is life without purpose but I'm anticipating a good lunch.
JonnyBGood is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 15 Dec 2005, 19:29   #49
dda
USS Oklahoma
 
dda's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,500
dda has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.dda has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.dda has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.dda has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.dda has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.dda has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.dda has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.dda has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.dda has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.dda has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.dda has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: Stanley "Tookie" Williams (hey dda!)

Sometimes, it is a polite way of saying that he pissed in a cup and threw that on a guard. It now would be called "gassing" in penitentiary language.

I don't know if this is what happened or not but it could be.
__________________
Ignorance is curable, stupidity is not.
dda is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 15 Dec 2005, 19:33   #50
QazokRouge5
Back from timeout.
 
QazokRouge5's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 906
QazokRouge5 is a jewel in the roughQazokRouge5 is a jewel in the roughQazokRouge5 is a jewel in the rough
Re: Stanley "Tookie" Williams (hey dda!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nantoz
I'm assuming this unnamed veteran fought in Vietnam. Could you please try to explain how murdering several million innocent and presumably peacefull people, posioning their lands and making the reputation of the USA quite a bit worse in any way can be construed as giving the american people their freedom?
Tell me how a 51 year old man murdered in the 80's was a vietnam vet? Maybe WW2 dumbass.
__________________
Quote:
Originally posted by Marilyn Manson
You'll have to prise my penis from my cold, dead hand!
Quote:
Originally posted by Yahwe
Gay ducks only do it because it impresses their peers.
QazokRouge5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 07:15.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2002 - 2018