Say hello to FAnG`s new friend!

[alch]

Originally Posted by xtothez

I'm bored of stating my case to dribbling Fang morons who use me as a scapegoat when they're losing an arguement. If anyone is interested in the real facts regarding my activites on Fang server, talk to alch. He was their techie at the time, he knows exactly what I did, the law related to it and so on.
It's sad you've dug yourself so far into this hole you have to resort to exaggeration and ouright lies regarding an entirely unrelated individual.

i wasnt a techie, i was intel officer or maybe HC, dont remember tbh.
anyway, the thing is no matter how much i despited what XtotheZ did the same time, to link his action to TP actions is taking the whole case out of proportion, what TP did was a pack of unlawful and real life criminal action and some abusive actions aswell, as in other hand the same action that XtotheZ did take was something that is still considered in the range of spying in PA which mean he did entered our ircd, he did use another nick, but he didnt managed to relay the channel by using a flow in the code or hacking our server or spreading a worm that would give him access to one of FAnG member, he just used a weakness in the services at this time to enter the server without being identified and without registering a nick, anyone would have done this if he had the opportunity.
however the only thing that can have been very very suspicious is he used one of FAnG member irc user/password (which has been collected long time before r10 and coincidencelly was the same in r10), but im sure there is nothing in rl laws that make you a criminal if you share a ircd user/pass, i am quite sure some of the people in here know their friends irc user/pass.
And if sharing or knowing other user/pass is a rl criminal charge and mean you are violating other user privacy its mean that all multi fall into this definition and need to be incarcareted aswell.

However TP is another story.....

[Forest]

idd, good to see a true fang'er sticking up for what he believes is right.

BTW anyone know where Leff is, i wanna get this sorted about 'threats im sposed to of made, as i cant remeber em' (i really shouldnt declare war so often :/ )

[Forest]

LEFF

<Forest> well im afk now, but if TP gets in this will be bad for your iamge, cya

Big threat there, I cant imagine it would of been anything else i said, and seeing as u ownt even tell me which part of the log has annoyed u, i can only assume that u know u are wrong and are trying to pass this off as my fault.

Heh

[Razorback]

dont take leff too serious, alot of times he just makes up things and posts balant lies,
Just take i.e. that i was involved in criminal activities or see the accusations he fired on xtothez or all right/wrong cheating accusations.

Its part of his insecurity to justify his own mistakes to exaggerate and to make up some stories to make his "opponent" look as bad as he is looking so he feels less guilty himself and to the public.

But you cant really hold that against him, showing his attitude to the whole tehprophet thing (yea he is a criminal but we only took him in to piss someone off we dont like, cause he is mean in a game, mowahahahahahaha now we showed him) shows he is still a kid in his ways and mind.

On the otherhand he is now defiant and will ignore any logic or any pieces of evidence because accepting it would make him lose face. He will claim the evidence which is enough for the rest of the universe and his mom, isnt strong enough and/or was made up etc etc.

Excuses will be at hand, so Forest dont let him get you, remember he is just bitter and like a kid, he doesnt know what he did wrong, even if you repeat it over and over to explain him.

You of all should know how to threat him in this matter

Im just happy reading in the other replies that this isnt neccessarily displaying the spirit of the fang gaming community, as much of a hassle some of them may be in this game - playing eve with kj for a laugh is still cool, i doubt i would do that if i know he or his m8s were deliberately hanging out with wormspreaders and computer criminals.

[Forest]

Focht, Just been chatting with him.

Seems it IS all bshit, and that he accepted TP because he knew i didnt want them to, just to get back at me for leaving fang last round and attacking them.

He seems to think that abuse is fine, and why shouldnt fang cheat as everyone else does anyway.
<Forest> all u ahve basically said is pa is unfair
<[FAnG]LEFF> yes
<[FAnG]LEFF> and it will always be
<[FAnG]LEFF> you have biased multihunters
<[FAnG]LEFF> if you get closed 1 time without any reasons
<[FAnG]LEFF> you`ll think like me
<[FAnG]LEFF> its the reason I dont play anymore
<[FAnG]LEFF> and its the reason i wont support ANYONE helping the pacrew
<Forest> well im afk now, but if TP gets in this will be bad for your iamge, cya
<[FAnG]LEFF> thats a reason for me to take him

To think, i once had a lot of respect for this guy :/
Seems u are spot on about this whole mess.
I hope 1:6 are prepared to def TP a lot, especially as TP has already said he is gonna quit pa anyway (told me b4 end of protection, still farming like mad).

[Razorback]

its sad to see that ppl like Leff can get so bitter and deluded over a game that they lose any grip on reality and justify now any crimes with silly ingame comparisons.

Afterall its just a game, unlike having someone endangering your computer. Seems Mistu last round had atleast the guts to deal with theprophet accordingly and they know the difference between crime and cheating. Sadly not everyone is that bright.

[alch]

just to make sure, i want you guys to understand the gaming community is an awesome place, the people playing there are good guys, TP joining them are becaue of the PA section policy and their HC, i doubt anyone in the neocron side or other games or even PA player knew who he was, i wouldnt put all the guys in the same bag, tho i allready told almost all the senate that letting TP in will make a lot of shit and will involve blaming FAnG to be cheaters blabla, the same image i was fighting against with LB last round when we rebuilt FAnG.
The thing is i dont think this should be a reason to not accept TP in, i think his actions he done in the past should be the reason.
However some had reased some other cases such as touriquet which i can tell you might have been proved as a cheaters in the past (last round he havent so shhhh) and some other case.
Accepting ex-cheaters and giving them a new chance is one thing and many alliances have done that from the biggests alliances to most known and blabla...
But accepting someone like TP which his actions were way beyond the cheating line is something else.

[Forest]

TehProphet isnt so much a cheater but an abuser and hacker, and that changes things, as Alch and others have said.

For the record, most of the gaming community i have met ahve been good guys, and in fact, a lot of the members in fang pa are good guys, and it reflects on them badly something that ther hc has decided to do.

[Razorback]

Thats all i said alch, happily its not the gaming community members, on the otherhand you must wonder how someone like TP can pass both your fang pa hc council and your gaming community senate. Seems to be alot of madmen on the helm in fang.

[alch]

if the system we used in the senate once when i was both senate and PA hc is the same used today, then basically the senate are not involved into recruitment of sections, each section has it own recruiters and a senate cant veto or kick a member from a section expect some case where the whole senate can decide to talk to the section leader regarding a member if this one is endangering the whole community which TP is the case right now.
I dont think blaming LEFF will help you in something, LEFF is senate but is not a FAnG.PA leader and not their recruiter too.
LEFF is a good guy, i always enjoyed working with him, its some other individual that accept user like TP, i dont know who vouched him and i dont know who recruit him, but the guy posting TP recruitment and interview thread on the FAnG forum had to be really brave.

i dont know who did that, but i think its a bad decision, however its their decision and we must respect their freedome to choose whatever individual they want in their alliances, its a free counter, if such action wont help then i am sure the people involved in the worm last round and had their computers compromised can always file a complaint against TP and an investigation will be led, i dont know what will be the results and how much time it will take but it will be more efficient that asking an alliance to kick TP, they wont do that, im almost sure.
On another hand, you can always thanks them to take TP under a known name so PATeam and csc opers can monitor him easily, he could have easily evaded any Gline and account banning by changing his nick and give false information about himself and play anonymously and that could have been more dangerous, so look at the bright side of the matter, you know what you are dealing with.
I dont think TP will be that stupid the next weeks or on other hand he might be too much inteligent and have hidden untrackable actions.

joy.

[cypher]

that last parts just means he likes the attention really... quite simply.

[Razorback]

Originally Posted by alch

.

So basically the rest of the universe should be happy that Fang allows criminals in their lines because its far better to monitor them ? Brilliant excuse to save Fangs reputation.
How about not giving a criminal a chance instead, cause what he did was not a small gentleman mistake ? (like most other alliances would do, see some replies)

On the sidenote i doubt anyone gives a damn whats fangs policy on recruiting is and just shockingly shakes their head in disbelief once again how low an alliance and selfproclaimed gamingcommunity can sink.

Shouldnt gamingcommunities of all groups have the highest standards ? And just the one which is always boasting its own chest of how they dont need to win cause they rock so much in other games or how long they are around compared to other playergroups, just this group needs to recruit criminals and hackers ?
You dont exspect to get more than a HAHAHAHA because with that "brave" (your choice of words) step i think Fang blew the last credibility and reputation they had.

And in the end you dare to ask for the crowd not to blame the entire fang? If fang is lead by a group of madmen accepting hackers and even proudly trying to defend it (alongside all those scandals in the past) you really think thats all just bad coincidence and anyone would swallow this bollox? The Fang-members should take it up with their Hc for recruiting such a person, if all of fang are so upright and loyal ppl. Wouldnt be anger about such a decision logical ? Instead we see excuses and blanko credits for him "this round he is monitored by fang so feel save".
The same Fang monitoring which failed in the r8 bg crisis ? Or you mean the same which is just stating "there is NO evidence against TP in any form". Ignoring the forumlink to last round..

Have a nice day with the hackerfriends in fang.

[JonnyBGood]

From reading this somewhat winding and diverging thread with many cross-points and counter accusations I've come to the conclusion that apparently TP was let into FAnG because Forest told Leff not to let him in due to this post

Originally Posted by LEFF|pm

Focht is a wizard

he can make the air smell...

...no, to concretise it: you accept well known cheaters and blame us of doing so... I believe in people being able to change (you are an exception ofc)
I would have never let TP join if not a 1up member presumed to giving me the order to kick him before he even joined.
No matter what TP did he cannot be worse then you.
And since YOU still play pa, he should be allowed to do so as well

furthermore its quite confusing to see him talkin on netgamers and playin pa while hes is a "well known cheater" according to the propagandists of your alliance ^^

Personally I find this brings up the rather interesting question of whether or not LEFF would throw himself off a cliff if forest ordered him not to. Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face heh.

[Hicks]

Is it me or does the phrase what a childish twat come to mind

[alch]

I think focht misunderstoof me, i didnt say that FAnG reacted in a good way by accepting a known hacker, i just asked not to lead a crusade against the FAnG member which basically dont know who is TP.
If you go to the UT or NC squad i am sure they will ask you "who the **** is TP", to accuse them they let a known hacker inside the gaming community is wrong, as the politics and recruitment are handled by the HC and the senate which are the only one that need to be accused in this fact.

I am a Gaming community member (ex if TP will stay there), and i am still waiting for an answer from one of the senate, especially kj to know how this guy has been let inside the gaming community.

that will be all

[Helix]

heh, I think I scared LEFF off of the thread by telling him to read the evidence on TP before posting again

[Buddah]

heh, this is laughable people, do you play to have fun ?
I dont really give a **** if an ally i am accepts someone i dislike, i cant just dont speak to him then.
how hard is that?
calling all fangers cheaters etc, is just silly.....
you forest should know that atleast, i didnt read all these post, and i forgot if you said that(sorry if you didnt).
all this crap make me happy fang took in tp, i dont know if he is guilty or not, but what would society be if crimes never wore forgiven?
OMG GERMANY IS THE EVIL!!!
THAT GUY STOLE A CAR 3 YEARS AGO!! HE IS STILL EVIL!!!
people change over time.

GG fang. you did the right thing, give the man a second chance!

[Treveler]

Heh, this has nothing to do with giving ppl second chances, it has all to do with score/roids.

I doubt FAnG took in TP out of the goodness in their hearts!

[Buddah]

well your whining isnt about score/roids...

[Treveler]

Why should I "whine" about fangs score/roids, or did it go over my head again?

[Buddah]

it went over, clearleh

[Treveler]

You should make your point clearer then

[Fyodor]

Originally Posted by LEFF|pm

Focht is a wizard

he can make the air smell...

...no, to concretise it: you accept well known cheaters and blame us of doing so... I believe in people being able to change (you are an exception ofc)
I would have never let TP join if not a 1up member presumed to giving me the order to kick him before he even joined.
No matter what TP did he cannot be worse then you.
And since YOU still play pa, he should be allowed to do so as well

furthermore its quite confusing to see him talkin on netgamers and playin pa while hes is a "well known cheater" according to the propagandists of your alliance ^^

theres a midge flying around and getting on my nerves btw

So you are the one who let him in? And you made a decision like that which will affect the whole alliance to spite another?

[Forest]

Now im not even gonna make any accusations on the guy who waited for me to join a room, spammed me with a very plausible virus link, then quit irc.

[Helix]

Originally Posted by Buddah

heh, this is laughable people, do you play to have fun ?
I dont really give a **** if an ally i am accepts someone i dislike, i cant just dont speak to him then.
how hard is that?
calling all fangers cheaters etc, is just silly.....
you forest should know that atleast, i didnt read all these post, and i forgot if you said that(sorry if you didnt).
all this crap make me happy fang took in tp, i dont know if he is guilty or not, but what would society be if crimes never wore forgiven?
OMG GERMANY IS THE EVIL!!!
THAT GUY STOLE A CAR 3 YEARS AGO!! HE IS STILL EVIL!!!
people change over time.

GG fang. you did the right thing, give the man a second chance!

Buddah, you really should have read the whole thread, cause then you would know the real reasons to people objecting to this. First off, those people who rashly accused the entire FAnG gaming community have sinced acknowledged they were wrong in doing so, and that it is merely the HC that made the decision and the cheating party who are to blame.

As for TP, and second chances...well what he did frankly doesn't deserve a second chance. Not but a mere month or two ago he infected 50-100 computers with trojans and created a bot net. Nobody knows for sure what he used that for, and what information he got, but there is suspicion that he had access to PA accounts, CC #'s and other sensitive information. This attack caused several people a lot of anquish in reformatting etc...

**[To be fair to FAnG and avoid flames]**
There is an entire thread of evidence on TP's guilt in the accused actions. FAnG claims that TP has since been exonnerated, how I do not know, but they claim that. However, evidence that shows that TP did not do any/all of the above has yet to be put forth, after nearly a week, I think that suggests that there is no evidence, and that TP is still guilty and FAnG was merely trying to justify recruiting TP.

So pls, dont start being rude on a thread that you have not read through and do not understand fully.


/me wonders if he will scare someone else off the thread by asking them to read stuff first

[KillGhost]

Originally Posted by Hicks

Is it me or does the phrase what a childish twat come to mind

same here

[Buddah]

Originally Posted by Helix

/me wonders if he will scare someone else off the thread by asking them to read stuff first

i read like the first page

and ofc he still deservs a second chance...
irc logs aint proof

[Stifler]

Originally Posted by Buddah

i read like the first page

and ofc he still deservs a second chance...
irc logs aint proof

did u read the linked thread?

[McIvan]

Just as to the question of "proof", a paste of an irc log proves nothing. BUT the evidence in court of the person who produced those irc logs, stating where they are from, when they were taken, and what they mean, most certainly IS courtroom worthy evidence. If the logs are uncontradicted, thorough, and cross check themselves (all of which is true in this case), they will serve as proof on which a verdict is based.

I see a lot of people posting in this and other threads that logs cannot be proof, or there's no proof of this or that. Generally their standards of proof are absurdly high and if followed in real life criminal court would see every prosecution dropped unless the accused made a voluntary confession. Real life isn't like that, and there's no coherent reason why these boards should be even more stringent.

If I were trying a case against TP, I would be quite happy advancing the evidence of Idimmu and others.

McIvan

[LEFF|pm]

rofl

you guys clearleh have too much time... what a hen party...
I told you why we let TP in and what we will do about him and I told you as well, why I wont give a damn about your personal opinions. Therfore You can act the innocent and get excited over it as much as You want without making only the slightest impact.

Let he, who is without sin, cast the first stone

[Jackal2112]

FAnG are not allowed to post because you can not defend the undefendable. It is logical to assume that this means that FAnG HC knowingly and consciously took in someone with a 'dubious resume' and they do not want to look 'silly' when some of their members post that they did not agree with their HC's action, or when their members post 'silly' comments to defend their HC's recruiting policies.

Proud to be FAnG!!

[ronnie]

Originally Posted by alch

only evidence that can contradicts mine are evidence from a court showing me log of ip from his ISP to prove it wasnt him...

did ppl skip over this bit ?

[cypher]

i agree with jackal tbh


PROUD TO BE FANG!!!!

[Razorback]

Originally Posted by LEFF|pm

rofl

you guys clearleh have too much time... what a hen party...
I told you why we let TP in and what we will do about him and I told you as well, why I wont give a damn about your personal opinions. Therfore You can act the innocent and get excited over it as much as You want without making only the slightest impact.

Let he, who is without sin, cast the first stone

apparently you give a damn, otherwise you wouldnt reply over and over.

On the otherhand if thats the official fang reply atleast in future the universe know your stand on cheaters and criminals. So we dont need to listen to your whining whenever you get called cheaters and hackers because that would fit the case if you sleep around with such ppl.

The only person coming out of this badly is you and any innocent fang player who now gets thrown into a pot with the madmen running your gaming community and the criminals/hackers/cheaters they allow into their middle.

Atleast you made fangs point of view perfectly clear to the public, proud to be fang i guess for all those who love to hang around with criminals and cheaters.

[alch]

stop all this BS, TP is a known criminal, and for that he will be kicked from whatever community or game he is in, i will make sure action are taking against him.
and btw, for all the people who are crying and yelling he is innocent, i would like to see OFFICIAL proof he is innocent, until then i dont trust anyone saying he is innocent, uber BS.

mark my word: TP will regret the day he decided to spread the worm amongst innocent players.

[Helix]

Originally Posted by alch

mark my word: TP will regret the day he decided to spread the worm amongst innocent players.

If only we could make all hackers and spammers regret the day they infect innocent peoples computers....now that would be a utopia...although I guess it would put a fair number of tech security and virus protection people out of jobs :/

[cypher]

alch is atleast someone who cares and will try to keep his friends clean and not related to wankers like tp... unlike leff... whom i used to respect...

[Jonas]

Sevrok for FAnG \o/

[Achilles]

I have it on good authority that Servok will be joining NewDawn within the hour.

Our Ultimate Victory is now assured. We will accept the official surrender of all alliances in our public channel at 09:00 GMT tomorrow.

Resistance is futile.

[Chaos]

damn. I'm just disgusted, plain and simple disgusted.

Have you no love for this game at all?

PAteam couldn't do anything cuz he didn't cheat ingame.
but for gods sake. If you have any love for this game at all, you shouldn't have allowed TP in.

[Forest]

Actually chaos he aquired 66 passwords by hacking, and as he has his own planet as well (that we knew of) that makes 67. Thats cheating by ingame rules.

What pateam couldnt do is prove it.

[alch]

the question is did he used the 67 passwords? and the other question you should ask yourself is, is it better he use his nick and play without any cover, so the PATeam can know where to find him, we know what to expect from him, having him banned from PA is quite easy but on other hand, he can evade the ban pretty easily on NG and on PA.
Disgust yes, what we can do is not ban him from a game, because this wont do anything, but ban him from alliances and gaming community, all of you know that allowing him to play in an alliance allow him to prosper, the minute he wont be able to get defense and cover from alliance, there is no point to play anymore as you will be bashed constantly and without a community, the game is boring. what make the game fun is the interaction.
TP is known for endangering this interaction with criminal actions.

[Phil^]

another qu to ask, have all of those ppl since changed their passwords?

[alch]

i doubt it, and i doubt if they changed their email pass aswell.
he might have gathered bank account aswell.

[Razorback]

Any news from fang ? Or is the gaming community busy to grouphug with TP while he happily hacks and cheats?

[Rumad]

I aint in fang anymore, but I don't see the big deal. Ppl cheat every round and some find very inventive ways of doing it. Unless you have proof he has cheated this round I can't se what the biggie is.

This does not mean I condone or support actions such as hacking fr supporting a position in any game, just that everyone deserves a second chance.

[cypher]

go get killmark back rumad:P you know you want too!!!

and hacking and messing up people's comps and spreading trojans isn't enough for you?

second chance my arse.
(besides who said this was the first time he did it?)

[Rumad]

Originally Posted by cypher

go get killmark back rumad:P you know you want too!!!

and hacking and messing up people's comps and spreading trojans isn't enough for you?

second chance my arse.
(besides who said this was the first time he did it?)

yep and he paid for his misake last round.

If he cocks up again you can tell me to blow i out of my ass, but for now I think i am right.

As for KM sure he has cheated in the past, but he isn't half as bad as people think.

Cypher - you have cheated in the past, I have cheated in the past, do you think we should have had the same treatment as being banned?

Simply while what he did was completely dispicable everyone deserves the abiliy to show they have reformed.

[Forest]

Originally Posted by alch

the question is did he used the 67 passwords?

It doesnt matter if he used them, the rules are u are not allowed to know anyone elses password.

[Rumad]

Originally Posted by Forest

It doesnt matter if he used them, the rules are u are not allowed to know anyone elses password.

ok so h knew them and may or may not have used them.

He was deleted and his round was ruined and he probably los a good deal of friends.

Tell me forest, have you ever made a mistake which didnt resul in someone being injured? Have you ever felt truely sorry enough to feel guilty, but still wanted to represent yourself at something?

I agree what happened was bad and It has t be amde sure it won't happen again, but i still hold everyone deserves a sexond chance.