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Unread 17 Jul 2008, 03:53   #1
Jamie_Omac
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Question Planetarion Suggestion/Bitch Thread - Please read & reply!!!

Hi guys,

I'm Jamie and I work with Omac.

Please use this thread to get any messages, suggestions, complaints, moans, whinges, stories, ideas and things you like in one place so we can see how the community feels.

First things first, things will be business as usual for the next round or two.

I am going to use the next round to have a decent discussion about Planetarion good and bad. It would be really helpful if I can ask that all of you who are serious Planetarion fans, as well as those of you who play it from time to time go out and get someone else you know who used to play the game but quit.

They don't have to rejoin the game (it would be helpful and give a decent boost to numbers for the next round if they did though), but I do want to hear why they left, if they would come back to playing the game, and if not, why.

Talk to you all soon

Jamie
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Unread 17 Jul 2008, 08:21   #2
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Re: Planetarion Suggestion/Bitch Thread - Please read & reply!!!

One of the biggest issues with the game as I see it at the moment is the lack of players. We've been telling Jolt for years that the game really needs more advertisement, and then we can start listening and caring about what the new players of the game say. Now, many will say that its because of the community that PA has so few players, but when you've been lied to by the owners of the game for so long, and nothing really has been put forward in interest of the game from them, its hard for the players to get all gitty and happy about how the game is being treated and run. I've put atleast £4-500 into the game just by playing it the last few years, and if you add expenses of running your own alliance, im sure that amount gets a lot higher. Maybe round £1000 And as a customer I would atleast think that the people owning the product would want to put some effort into the game instead of just using the /ignore for several rounds.

The game itself is a tad bit to time consuming for me as I am now 28 years and in a full job, but I try to play it as much as I can.

One of the things I miss is the ability to nap alliances in game, maybe have like a political map of the universe like they have in other similar games, and to have more interaction between players. There are several good suggestions in the this part of the forum, and if you dig deep in it, you will find many good good suggestions, that everyone agreed upon, but never got made due to the difficulty the PA-Team either had with time, available coding people or simply didn't bother to take on board. I'll quickly summarize my own favorites: The ability to have more open trade between planets (These could be made public to avoid cheating), the ability to f.example have command personnel to put on ships to give the ships some improvements both defensively and attacking, and as I said, a political screen where you can declare war, declare naps etc.

Now, if you really wanted out there suggestions, I suggest you get into a dialogue with the game's creator of old Spinner, who has been interested in buying the game from Jolt, and also have a few ideas in regards to the game.


Also, it would be really nice to have a system in place so that people that come back round after round to cheat would be banned from the game forever. Not that we got a certain previous winner/cheater in mind or anything. By letting cheaters continue to play the game, or to be allowed to sign up the following round, or even worse the same! round, you are just basically saying, we accept cheaters, and we only close you if people complain.
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Unread 17 Jul 2008, 08:37   #3
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Re: Planetarion Suggestion/Bitch Thread - Please read & reply!!!

I think what planetarion really needs is a decent advertising campaign.
When not logged into this forum there are always banners on it from other browser based games, I've seen these kind of banners on alot of game sites yet I have never ever seen Planetarion being mentioned anywhere though...

I've played a couple of other text based games (some of which advertised on these banners) and eventhough alot of them had 10-15k players in terms of enjoyment and playability they didn't even get close to what PA does, atleast in my opinion.

I believe PA's real selling point should be the amount of interaction you can have with other players in your alliance. Most of the people that play PA activly these days return round after round just for the fun you have with the people in your alliance, atleast that is why I personally bother showing up round after round and most people I know play PA for the same reason.

Some other issues I have with planetarion:
- Depending on community sites such as sandmans & battlecalcs. Imo these should be somehow implemented ingame or atleast have a link to them from ingame (problem with linking them though is that if the owners of these sites decide to take them down...). Alot of people here will probably downsize this issue, but I still remembered when I started playing I had no idea what a bcalc was and what sandmans was and failed alot at PA. These tools have helped me become a better player and understand the game more.

- Manual is outdated and is difficult to navigate / find the info you're looking for and maybe just a bit too complicated for most newcomers (guess what, alot of people don't give a damn about most formula's & calculations that can be made)

- Lack of ingame alliance tools: not exactly true but it is a fact though that the ingame alliance tools look like crap compared to the tools most alliances have that are created by volounteers. I really doubt any alliance really uses the ingame alliance tools (except maybe some smaller / noob'ish alliances)

- Not enough new player help: there are the quests but the problem with that is that they're the same for all races (for example an ETD that has no fighters/corvettes has to build a light factory that is completly useless to its race in order to do all the quests.) There should also be more quests made availible later in the round.
At the moment you have the beginner quests you can do but some other quest categories for all playing styles: Attacker quests, Defender quests, scanner quests, cov-op quests, alliance quests, galaxy quests, ...
This could help new players get more involved in the game and picking it up alot easier. Allready experienced people can still choose to do these quests for the rewards they offer.

- Scans not easily available (especially to solo players, new players). Solution for this that I prefer is something suggested on the suggestions forum a while back (can't remember exactly who made the suggestion though).
The ability to purchase scans ingame, but they are more expensive than scans when done by a scanners maybe +25% cost or something. The amount of amps this systems has is the amount of amps a scanner in the universe has. New types of scans are only unlocked when an ingame scan planet has actually researched this.

- Increase the playability of the free accounts a bit (this way you can easier advertise the game as being "free")

There are probably some other things smarter people than me will have to say about PA but these are the things I consider to be most important.

I would allready like to thank Omac for atleast taking an effort to reach out to the planetarion community and asking the players what they think is important, how the game can start to grow again.
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Unread 17 Jul 2008, 10:46   #4
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Re: Planetarion Suggestion/Bitch Thread - Please read & reply!!!

I quit once because of lack of time. I'd like to have a planet and help out my alliance, but because slots are limited, they have a value to the alliance. If I can't log on regularly, I am of little value to the alliance and they use the slot elsewhere. Because I can't play with my friends, I don't play.

My suggestions:
1) Remove or raise ally memberlimits, or remove the support planet rule.

2) Simplify the stats tables. At least 3 columns are superfluous and EMP is overcomplicated. It is too intimidating to many players.

3) Improve ingame ally tools so that new allies are easier to set up.

4) Get the manual up to date.

5) Introduce achievements or medals which are kept after the round.

6) Change the scan tech tree so that new IRCless players don't have to wait 2 weeks to try out the game

7) Shorten the protection period so that new players don't have to wait 3 days to play & older players don't have to sit through the tedium of protection. Possibly even remove it and replace it with a planet building tool

8) Possibly modify prelaunch so that attacker etas appear on jgp scans. This would allow people to play the defensive game without getting up at 4am or otherwise building their lives around PA, whilst rewarding active players.

9) OMAC own a bunch of games. What about a universal passport? With achievements, cross advertisement and centralised funds.

10) Speedgames. If you get enough players, 2-3hour long games of 5 or 10 second ticks may be a good idea. They would be cheap, but have achievements as rewards and something that people who can't play a full 7 week round would be more likely to consider. Could also be a test bed for new gameplay.

11) Take advantage of 'web 2.0' and mobile browsing. Mobile tech is at the same level as PCs were when PA was popular; an ideal market. Social networking sites may be another way in (eg a facebook PA app). Nearly-free advertisement could be gained by approaching magazines who deal with mobile, online, or retro gaming.

12) Most of the above will require some kind of project manager with time dedicated for PA, and a programmer with time dedicated for PA. Successful growth would easily justify this investment, and the game should return to a low marginal cost model after these modifications.


There are a load of ways the game could be streamlined and basic gameplay could be made simpler & more accessible to attract and retain new players without compromising depth.
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Unread 17 Jul 2008, 11:00   #5
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Re: Planetarion Suggestion/Bitch Thread - Please read & reply!!!

Something else I personally would like to see changed:

Adding alliance tags to players in galaxy overview / universe rankings ...

Reason for this is to remove all the cloak and dagger we have going on. Most people prefer to know what they are hitting though over the years PA has developed from an open warfare game to a "hide your members as best as possible" game.

In the older rounds people were not affraid to say: I'm that guy, I play for that alliance, ... One of the standard ways to get defence for your galm8 was to go to the alliances public channel and pm an op or voice.

Now we have individual defchannels / member, alot of people using fake-nicks, alliances tagging up late and trying to keep their biggest members out of tag as long as possible, ...

This is not positive for the game imo.
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Unread 17 Jul 2008, 11:18   #6
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Re: Planetarion Suggestion/Bitch Thread - Please read & reply!!!

Gate's suggestions are excellent. I would hold off on the advertisement until PA has become a little bit more newb friendly, because else any new players would leave within a few days again.
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Unread 17 Jul 2008, 12:38   #7
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Re: Planetarion Suggestion/Bitch Thread - Please read & reply!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kargool View Post
We've been telling Jolt for years that the game really needs more advertisement, and then we can start listening and caring about what the new players of the game say. Now, many will say that its because of the community that PA has so few players, but when you've been lied to by the owners of the game for so long, and nothing really has been put forward in interest of the game from them, its hard for the players to get all gitty and happy about how the game is being treated and run. I've put atleast £4-500 into the game just by playing it the last few years, and if you add expenses of running your own alliance, im sure that amount gets a lot higher. Maybe round £1000 And as a customer I would atleast think that the people owning the product would want to put some effort into the game instead of just using the /ignore for several rounds.
What people keep choosing to forget though is Jolt did throw money at the game. We as a community though decided to piss all over the investment with our general attitudes thus making the investment pointless as the end result was nothing but scaring Jolt off from making any other real investments.

Now what people seem to forget is that PA was never and probably never will be the greatest game ever. But back at its real peak of r3 that didn't matter as it was us the community that sold the game. We were a community that was as vibrant and fun to be in as any gaming community out there. Round 4 was when the community started to break down though, private galaxies started to break the community down into lots of smaller, inward looking groups based along alliance lines and while the communities inside these smaller groups was as strong if not stronger than ever as a whole it was weaker. This was shown here on the forums and on IRC where the general attitude was getting alot more hostile and bitchier. Luckerly the game was still free and while alot of people were quitting due to the change in community there were always many more joining up which offset many of the potential issues and kept the old spirit alive in the none private part of the universe. P2P though killed that player influx and helped drive alot of players away either as they couldn't pay or because after the previous round weren't going to pay for that product. And as the community has got smaller its just intensified.

Now if Omac are serious about investment then marketing isn't where it should be going at this moment. It needs to go on development to make the game more inviting and while they are doing that we as the community need to take our heads out of the sand and make a change. We need to recapture some of the r3 spirit so when they have made the game more inviting and appealing they not only have the game to market but also a community that's competitive while being fair, friendly and fun. After all as is the case with most Multiplayer games it will be the community that the game lives or dies by. We pulled against spinner at the end, we pulled against Jolt almost immediately but we now have a 3rd chance and if Omac put even the effort and investment that Jolt initially did into the game and we pull with them rather than against we will as a community make this game great again
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Unread 17 Jul 2008, 13:35   #8
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Re: Planetarion Suggestion/Bitch Thread - Please read & reply!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
I would hold off on the advertisement until PA has become a little bit more newb friendly, because else any new players would leave within a few days again.
Seems the financially sensible thing to do; you don't want to advertise an unfinished product.

It would be great if OMAC would start investing in development as soon as possible. The next round could run as normal with development going on in the background, ready to be delivered for the round after next (wintertime, which I guess is generally better for browser games?). Otherwise the momentum may just fizzle out.
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Unread 17 Jul 2008, 13:37   #9
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Re: Planetarion Suggestion/Bitch Thread - Please read & reply!!!

why not tell us why we as a community should pay money to play this game when so many other online multi-player games are free
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Unread 17 Jul 2008, 14:14   #10
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Re: Planetarion Suggestion/Bitch Thread - Please read & reply!!!

I'd post some irrelevant and banal cliches but I think wakey has beaten me there on almost all of them.


People left the game because it's been the same game fundamentally for a long time. There's very little new and interesting about it and it still requires quite a lot of your time and often at insanely unsuitable times of the day. The depth of the game, that is the political element of it, does not rest in any way on the gameplay itself. Why stay here and play when you can go somewhere else where there are many more interesting things you can do with your time?

You need a small team with a coherent vision they can hash out over the space of a couple of weeks and some people who can put in enough development time to bring about over the space of a couple of months. Then you need to advertise it. I think you said yourself in another thread that you played Planetarion. Why did you join and why did you quit?
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Unread 17 Jul 2008, 15:09   #11
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Re: Planetarion Suggestion/Bitch Thread - Please read & reply!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reese View Post
-Roid capture based on % not a flat 25% (ie. Send 5m value on 1m value planet cap only 10% instead of 25%)
--- Losing 25% of your roids because 25 people hit you at once is just plain stupid. If that many people hit you they should only capture a total of 5-10 roids. Force people to calc out fair fights for max roids.
Yes, let's make the top planets even harder to roid.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reese
-XP removed or severely altered. (ie. you lose 80% of your fleet you get 0 XP, cause there is no "skill" in that.)
--- Crashing for XP should not be rewarded. If you lose a % of your fleet then you should lose the potential XP you were going to get. (lose 80% of fleet lose 80% of potential XP.) You can lose roids many times, but lose your entire fleet and youre round is pretty much over.
Crashing for XP is pretty much useless these days. Losing value for XP is only viable when you gain a ridiculous amount. There is no reward for losing value for a similar amount of score in XP. XP whoring is dead. In any case this is a meaningless suggestion for the game at large, new players won't give a crap about it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reese
-Seeing blocked scans on News Page (like you do cov ops).
---Gives people a reason to build distorters, and a heads up you might be attacked. Also makes scanning/scanners more important.
I am 100% against making scanners more important and I oppose any suggestion that strives to do so. Reasons for this have been mentioned by Gate and myself time and time again, so I won't bore you with repetition.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reese
-Ability to exile planets after 24 hours new or joining.
--- Waiting 3 days to get rid of someone who logged in once is just boring.
2 Days.
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Unread 17 Jul 2008, 15:23   #12
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Re: Planetarion Suggestion/Bitch Thread - Please read & reply!!!

I totally agree with MZ here, what Reese here is suggesting will only make it easier for the planets with plenty of roids, and not do anything for the smaller planets.
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Unread 17 Jul 2008, 16:09   #13
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Re: Planetarion Suggestion/Bitch Thread - Please read & reply!!!

I don't like 3 of Reese's ideas...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reese View Post
-Private Gals. (perhaps with odd full random round thrown in)
Restricts the community from making new friends. The incentive on a round-by-round basis is for long term players to play in private gals (I probably would because it would be a major disadvantage not to). This prevents community growth and helps guarantee newer players can't play with strong alliance players.

Quote:
-Roid capture based on % not a flat 25% (ie. Send 5m value on 1m value planet cap only 10% instead of 25%)
--- Losing 25% of your roids because 25 people hit you at once is just plain stupid. If that many people hit you they should only capture a total of 5-10 roids. Force people to calc out fair fights for max roids.
A stupendous advantage to cloaked fleets although it does reward smaller-class fakes more.

On the other hand, I think it's a bad idea because it makes bigger planets harder to roid. If yu get hit by 25 planets, they're sacrificing the chance to get much higher roidgain elsewhere. They're getting a higher probability of landing, but a much lower potential gain as things are already. Your suggestion just improves things for the biggest planets who're now easier to cover.

Also, the current system is more KISS compatible.

Quote:
-XP removed or severely altered. (ie. you lose 80% of your fleet you get 0 XP, cause there is no "skill" in that.)
--- Crashing for XP should not be rewarded. If you lose a % of your fleet then you should lose the potential XP you were going to get. (lose 80% of fleet lose 80% of potential XP.) You can lose roids many times, but lose your entire fleet and youre round is pretty much over.
You've covered it. 'youre round is pretty much over' - if you crash your fleet, you can't do it again & are easily covered in future. A punishment for crashing for XP.
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Unread 17 Jul 2008, 16:11   #14
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Re: Planetarion Suggestion/Bitch Thread - Please read & reply!!!

I'd oscillate private, random, private, random etc. Or maybe private, bp, random, private, bp, random. Either way there are advantages to all of them and the negatives that arise are largely long-term and negated by the fact that a round is over in 2 months.
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Unread 17 Jul 2008, 16:25   #15
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Re: Planetarion Suggestion/Bitch Thread - Please read & reply!!!

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I quit once because of lack of time. I'd like to have a planet and help out my alliance, but because slots are limited, they have a value to the alliance. If I can't log on regularly, I am of little value to the alliance and they use the slot elsewhere. Because I can't play with my friends, I don't play.

My suggestions:
1) Remove or raise ally memberlimits, or remove the support planet rule.
Most of your ideas are pretty good but I don't personally think that one actually benefits the game. There was a point where the number of viable alliances was growing and it was having a positive effect on the game. Then there was the dumb decision to up the level fairly significantly and instantly we lost a fair amount of the viable alliances as it created an upwards flow that was too quick for the flow of players coming in. Ever since then its yoyo'd between a small drop and then a rise.

Now with a reasonable limit people like yourself may lose out, but without a limit as many lose out at the other end, and tbh if you are playing none seriously then you are probably of less value to the game in general.

Also one of the biggest things people seem to continually complain about at an alliance level is the lack of command quality players which is something that the rises to the limit have contributed to and further increases or no limit at all would add to.

You see there's alot of players who on the face of things aren't considered good bets. They know no-one, have no vouches and such like meaning alot of alliances won't touch them. They would rather wait for them to join someone else, prove their worth before poaching them mid round when they know they are useful. With a limit the poaching is restricted so players rise rate is controlled which will see them alot more likely to reach a point where they feel inclined to take on command responsibility and are also alot more likely to be offered such a position. When the spaces allow more poaching to go on, these players who are becoming 'big fish in small ponds' suddenly find themselves as small fish again and find there isn't the same need for them to get involved and the desire to do so at some point can fade as they become comfortable on auto pilot in a big alliance. Certainly there's alot more ex F-Crew members in command positions that went through command training with us than there is who left before reaching this level.

Playing with friends is important and if there's a solution to allow the more casual person a chance to continue playing with friends than great but it shouldn't be at the expense of the games depth and its future
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Unread 17 Jul 2008, 16:25   #16
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Re: Planetarion Suggestion/Bitch Thread - Please read & reply!!!

This might also be a good time to draw attention to the suggestion made by Rob a while back, to give people the choice between private gal but no tag and random gal + alliance. Search is your friend.
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Unread 17 Jul 2008, 18:50   #17
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Re: Planetarion Suggestion/Bitch Thread - Please read & reply!!!

I'd say that the most important thing to take from this thread is the divisions within the PA community, and the fact that it should be ignored at all costs.


It would be a much better idea, as JonnyBGood said, to create a small team to completely overhaul the game. Get access to the Development forum (a private forum on here) and have them read through past suggestions that weren't taken up. Then lock that team in a room for a week until they come up with a redesign that has a big focus on the commercial reward for Omac.

Planetarion has a community of about 3000 people, two thirds of which still actively play the game. If it's going to be a commercial success then many more players will be needed (by a factor of 10, to pluck a number from the air) to give Omac a decent income. The big problem for online games is finding a method of generating income to pay for the bandwidth needed to run them, one that Jolt never found an answer to. SMS revenue is a possibility and one that I gather Omac's CEO has some experience in.


As soon as people are asked to start paying for a game they turn away from it. Find a way to get tens of thousands to play the game while still making a profit on it and Omac will have itself a fantastic flagship product.
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Unread 18 Jul 2008, 00:13   #18
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Re: Planetarion Suggestion/Bitch Thread - Please read & reply!!!

I started playing again a good few rounds ago and noticed a big improvement in the game itself, the only reason i stopped playing was because i just didn't have the time to. IMO i think the game is great and i don't think that not having the time to play makes it a bad thing it just makes it more enjoyable when you do have the time and put the effort in.
did i answer the question?
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Unread 18 Jul 2008, 00:55   #19
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Re: Planetarion Suggestion/Bitch Thread - Please read & reply!!!

I stop playing every time simply because the games require too much time, especially at unreasonable hours, alliances often serve the needs of a few and there are tons of other game out there offering newer products.
I come back for the masochist atmosphere at the forums, the frustrating game nature and the fleeting hope I might finally make it to the top 100. But it all comes down to the fact that PA was my first mpog and sometimes I miss what I felt playing it for the first time during my college years.

Now, some suggestions:

(1) Translate everything into multiple languages.
(2) Make it so it can be played from any new generation phone. (i.e. i-phone like)
(3) Main Account System. Appeal to players' vanity and keep track of their performance. Reward/punish them with medals, reputation, etc (no need for $ prizes here, except perhaps credits).
(4) Many, many, many shorter or longer, faster, different (some simpler, some more complex, team, etc) games.
(5) First round is free for everyone with full functions.

(in-game crap)

(6) Allied players can only attack allied players. And BGs are registered and tracked ingame. For the sake of below top 10 alliances and solo players. You might want to implement a system for alliances & BGs blocking or declaring truces, and perhaps deny the right to the top 10.
(7) Fleet commanders
(8) Alliance const., research, wonder building capabilities
(9) In-game alliances for new players (i.e. part of the tutorial crap, and as a stepping stone to other alliances.)
(10) sleep button (for a few hours) once a day if no fleets out and no incoming fleets.

best of lucks

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Unread 18 Jul 2008, 01:26   #20
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Re: Planetarion Suggestion/Bitch Thread - Please read & reply!!!

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(1) Translate everything into multiple languages.
Translating isn't actually that good an idea for a game like PA. It works in something like Managerleague where interaction isnt that important but PA relys on communication so you need a common language.

You either need to ensure that you have a significantly larger gaming population distributed relatively evenly over the core languages so the game can be split or you need to somehow make communication viable between different languages
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Unread 18 Jul 2008, 02:12   #21
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Re: Planetarion Suggestion/Bitch Thread - Please read & reply!!!

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(5) First round is free for everyone with full functions.
Utterly unenforceable.
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Unread 18 Jul 2008, 04:59   #22
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Re: Planetarion Suggestion/Bitch Thread - Please read & reply!!!

I disagree Wakey.
Image 3,000 chinese (or 30,000) with their own top 10 alliances... a lot of people speak 2 and 3 languages. And translating shouldn't cost too much, is a matter of creating skins right? (I have no clue) If you refer that some players won't be able to communicate because of the language barrier in-game then I'say (a) so what?, (b) add a few pre-made messages to the msg board. IRC is the same story, (a) lotsa of people speak more than 1 lang. and (b) it should work just like the real world... interpreters.

I also disagree with you Mzy.
It would be enforceable with a main account system. A few players may choose to keep starting new accounts, but I am sure the great majority will try to improve their record and thus will pay.

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Unread 18 Jul 2008, 08:29   #23
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Re: Planetarion Suggestion/Bitch Thread - Please read & reply!!!

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(in-game crap)

(6) Allied players can only attack allied players. For the sake of below top 10 alliances and solo players. You might want to implement a system for alliances blocking or declaring truces, and perhaps deny the right to the top 10.
I'm really confused here... Allied players can only attack allied players, for the sake of below top 10 alliances...
So alliances like Redemption, ToF, ... are not considered alliances in your book?
Also, will this also work both ways? Unallied players not being able to attack allied players?
If it doesn't then you'll just get a group of people that doesn't tag up their alliance but just keeps on hitting the allied players together like any normal alliance attack and being completly safe from being hit back by alliances. Tag up as late as possible and there you go, victory

Why deny the top10 the function to being able to block, declare truces, ... Given the situation we have now, the top10 will be the alliances that could use a function like that the most.

Why all the "hate" directed towards the t10 alliances btw? not all top10 alliances are the powerhouses you make them out to be. There's a huge difference allready between the top4 allies now and the rest and then even a bigger difference between the top7 and the last 3 in the top 10 (note the 50 mil score difference between ROCK at rank 7 and HA at rank 8).
Imo there's a bit all sorts of alliances represented in top10 now and I see now reason why outside top10 allies should get functions the top10 allies don't get.
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Unread 18 Jul 2008, 10:31   #24
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Re: Planetarion Suggestion/Bitch Thread - Please read & reply!!!

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I disagree Wakey.
Image 3,000 chinese (or 30,000) with their own top 10 alliances... a lot of people speak 2 and 3 languages. And translating shouldn't cost too much, is a matter of creating skins right? (I have no clue) If you refer that some players won't be able to communicate because of the language barrier in-game then I'say (a) so what?, (b) add a few pre-made messages to the msg board. IRC is the same story, (a) lotsa of people speak more than 1 lang. and (b) it should work just like the real world... interpreters.
If people can speak more than 1 language then like the many none native English speakers in this game there is no reason for them not to be signing up already. The main reason for translating the game is to attract those with no real knowledge of the main language.

TBH your line of "Image 3,000 chinese (or 30,000) with their own top 10 alliances" actual shows your lack of comprehension of the complexity of your idea. Chinese is not an actual language, but what is classified as a macrolanguage. This means that what is infact considered Chinese is 13 different languages which means even the whole of china cant communicate with each other. The four main ones are Mandarin (Spoken by 850 million), followed by Wu (Spoken by 90 million), Min (Spoken by 70 million) and Cantonese (Spoken by 70 million). So even to get the main core of china able to play you need to translate everything in the game and manual to 4 complex languages, then you need to find round the clock support in those 4 languages, the forums would probably need a forum for each of these languages and enough mods on each to give good coverage. And even after that you still have the issue of a large number of new players who cant communicate with their galaxy mates and who are also restricted on what alliances they can join due to language. A few default messages isnt going to cut it and having interpretors isn't viable.

All you end up doing at this time is segregating the community further and as a browser based game that's not good as it has to be the community that you are really selling as you cant compete on a gaming level with mmo's like Eve and WoW
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Unread 18 Jul 2008, 19:02   #25
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Re: Planetarion Suggestion/Bitch Thread - Please read & reply!!!

I simply disagree with you evaluation of translating will end up segregating and killing the community. The community has been in a comma for years, is this what you are going to try to sell?. Those who will play PA will play it because they like the concept, not because they are mesmerized by the graphics or the modernity of the game. Eve and other games are already out there, we can;t do anything about that. Besides, I am sure many 3rd world players will speak multiple lanaguages/dialects, especially those quasi-middle class with access to a computer and the internet.

Wakey, pick any one of the language/dialects spoken by tens of millions and you may get a couple hundred chinese or brazilians or etc, if you translate to 10 languages/dialects, you may get even a couple of thousands. And these new players will have friends who they can tell. We can't really bring anyone in ourselves (if we could, we would have done it already).

-----------

re the support: we don't need to be 20 people speaking each language, although if you give it time there will be. You don't need a forum for each language. If you can;t speak chinese then you won;t be able to read Chinese (don't be anal, you know what I mean), if you don;t read Spanish, the you won;t be reading Spanish, if you don;t read English, then LIKE NOW, you won;t be reading English.

Now, that there will be subforums with main languages, ofc those will emerge. That there will be alliances mostly made up of chinese, or spanish speaking people... ofc those will emerge. And this is good!! This is not segregation, this is not separate but equal, this is actually bringing players from all over the world (even more so than now) together playing the same game.

It is funny indeed that you don't see anything wrong with having English as the sole language. It is like trying to sell windows-office for a single language. Why would thousands, indeed millions, of potential players outthere, who don;t speak english, would want to play this game? Could they even if they did want to?

------------

re the top 10 alliances: Is not hate (check your definitions). In fact, I would like it to be a true politics system with everyone having a share but I believe this would be dangerous with current alliance caps and game reality (i.e. only 1 type of alliance exist). I do believe that traditional/current alliance dynamics drive away most of the players that leave. But I couldn't care less since I am not playing hardcore anymore (b/c I do not want to be a peon in an alliance). I simply ventured an 'opinion' based on memories of 4 of the top 5 blocking to bring down #1, or #1 blocking with 5 alliances to keep #2 at bay. In theory, I don't care, is just that I remember people whining about super blocks. If it is unfair to the top 10 alliances, imagine to the minor alliances and crappy battle groups or n00b clusters.

-----------

re player remaining untagged: ofc you will always have a few fish around, so what? Why not? This is good strategizing and everyone is on the same boat.
But it would be a fairer game to solo players and small bands of players.
Untagged players do give up ally defense time bonus. And don't we have it now that late joiners will only contribute score from that point on? (not sure).

(We could even create 2nd type of association, the traditional battlegroups but registered in-game, with 5 players cap or whatever, and we can have them attack anyone but they don't benefit from a defense bonus... We SHOULD keep track of their rankings separatedly, again, target their egoes).

If that is the strategy alliances want to follow (i.e. main group, and rogue wing) well so be it, they still have to deal with details about when, how many, kicking out others, and having every-other alliance doing the same, etc.

The idea is to give a chance to solo and new players, atm it is frustrating to be virtual farms of the alliances, even when they are in top galaxies. If allied player's can;t target them, the likelihood of getting 5 red fleets when an alliance is bashing the gal will dramatically decrease. Thus their sense of "not getting crushed every week, whats the point of playing this game if I don't spend 3 hours on IRC every 2am" will perhaps dissapear, and therefore they may keep playing, and even may comeback nextround.

=====================================

The ideas above are not to be implemented for their own sake. But with the specific goal of at least doubling the community. The fact is that the current community is largely made up of rookies and vets clustered in top 20 alliances. New players coming into the game have a hard time learning the game quickly and since they don;t have a chance to play decently, to have fun, to not be certainly be crushed by the next allied attack, they quit. "Noone likes to loose always!"

The easiest way is to target untapped markets (China and Lat Am.). I am convinced that access to your own language, and a less alliance driven game (more individual player focused, but without killing the alliances), with more features for each player to play with + a sleep button and finally some (humble but brilliantly targeted) advertising will likely bring the much needed fresh n00bies.

Last edited by Aedolaws; 18 Jul 2008 at 20:51.
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Unread 19 Jul 2008, 00:37   #26
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Re: Planetarion Suggestion/Bitch Thread - Please read & reply!!!

In reaction to Aedolaws idea of translating the game: that would be an awesome addition to the game in my opinion and could bring many people in.
The forum problem could be solved like this: click
Further, I disagree with wakey for the reasons mentioned by Aedolaws. He articulated it well, imho.

Further I agree with Gate's first post, he made some good suggestions there. Especially with regards to the passport system.

In addition, I think "communication" is a very important issue. I think it would work wonders if PA-team or OMAC would communicate more openly than before, i.e. so that everyone, especially new players know how it's all working around here. Now it seems that PA-team has opted for an introvert attitude towards the community. This I can understand to a certain level as they need to retain the current playerbase as their hands were further tied.

Finally, I would suggest to you Jamie: don't listen too much to all the people here... I think if you wish to turn this game around you need radical change imposed on the community and not the incremental participative change that has been going on for many many rounds now. *
If you lose some of the old dinosaurs of PA in the process... They will adapt... I hope for them

* This idea: click
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Unread 19 Jul 2008, 03:12   #27
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Re: Planetarion Suggestion/Bitch Thread - Please read & reply!!!

Aedolaws/Membrivio: I have to wonder if you have played this game as you seem to be completely missing the level of interaction that's required between players. Its extremely frustrating to even try and communicating with others who have limited English yet alone people who cant speak any.

Aedolaws uses the example of software such as windows and office and how it would be daft to only produce one language option and he is right. However we aren't talking about a solo user software product. We are talking about a massively multiplayer game and you cant just ignore language barrier issues. If 2 players cant communicate they may as well not be playing with a real person as all they bring to each other could be done by a ingame bot.

Even if you were to add 5000 Mandarin speakers, 5000 Spanish speakers, 5000 French speakers, 5000 italian speakers and 5000 German speakers the cross over between the languages is going to be limited. Very few of the current playerbase will be able to speak to this extra 25k players and the same goes for each language group. This instantly segregates the community.

The only workable solution would be to assign galaxies by language so all the galaxy could communicate. But with the players already getting segregated by language, then by alliances (a choice dictated by your language) segregating things further along galaxy lines is troubling.

And what Membrivio doesn't seem to understand about my forum comment, i mentioned that you would need forums for each language. This isn't the issue, the issue is that the current mod team would struggle to mod them. Most people arent fluent in multiple languages, infact I would say the average level of second language skills are likely to only be passable in one language. This means for each language enough mods to cover that forum for most of the day are needed and these people have to be able to communicate well in a primary language so they can talk to the rest of the team. The same goes with the support team.

Communication is key between players and translating the game for the sake of it without any way to for the majority to communicate with each other doesnt add anything but a few faceless planets for us to attack
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Unread 19 Jul 2008, 03:23   #28
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Re: Planetarion Suggestion/Bitch Thread - Please read & reply!!!

johnny I was in school at the time so when it went paid I couldn't pay so I moved on

Membriso, I'm here to listen for the time being and considering thatthose who left aren't talking I'm more interested in getting everything out in the open

I hope you all can understand that I won't be posting much as I want to talk to pateam, but keep them coming and I'll be reading every day.

Just because nothing has happened in ages doesn't mean that we can't fix things. Let's see what we can fix in the short term in due course. Keep the constructive criticism and suggestions coming.

And if you really want to help, use the refer a friend function and get new or old players back. If you've a bit of time and want to go out and recruit new players please do so. A bit of effort from anyone willing to help will make the game more fun and help with any of the pr and advertising later on.

Planetarion is a good game, a good brand and one of the pioneers of pbg's and real time mmo'a. It's great to know that there's a passionate community of players who've been through thick and thin together. You're more powerful as a group than you are separately so let's rally behind the game again.

I saw the facebook group too,good to see that there's a sense of humour here

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Unread 19 Jul 2008, 07:53   #29
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Re: Planetarion Suggestion/Bitch Thread - Please read & reply!!!

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Unread 19 Jul 2008, 13:32   #30
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Re: Planetarion Suggestion/Bitch Thread - Please read & reply!!!

If there are going to be many changes to the game why not keep it free for a few rounds?

If there are going to be changes as said then surly asking the players to pay for an unfinished product is not on? Also if we want a player boost keeping the game free and showing changes might well encourage those that have simply joined for the free round to consider paying for the game once they have seen the improved amount of development, if indeed it is coming?

just an idea tho

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Unread 21 Jul 2008, 09:18   #31
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Re: Planetarion Suggestion/Bitch Thread - Please read & reply!!!

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This instantly segregates the community.
Why is segregation a bad thing though wakey?
It worked in South Africa.

I d like to twat frenchspeaking people / allies. PA was more fun when people hated eachother, its a war game, stop spreading the love.
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Unread 21 Jul 2008, 10:08   #32
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Re: Planetarion Suggestion/Bitch Thread - Please read & reply!!!

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Why is segregation a bad thing though wakey?
It worked in South Africa.

I d like to twat frenchspeaking people / allies. PA was more fun when people hated eachother, its a war game, stop spreading the love.
Its not about people liking each other though. People play games like this due to the real players you get to play against and interact with. If they wanted to play against faceless drones they don't need to be playing PA as there's better stand alone solo games out there that will do the job.

Now pretty much since private galaxies came in and pushed the focus to alliances people have been complaining about how the trend has become for many players not to interact with the wider community which has killed alot of the community aspects outside the alliance setups. By trying to encourage none English speakers into the game without anyway for them to 'connect' you aren't doing much to reinvigorate the community. Yes you get more planets but you are also going to make people feel less connected. If you land in a galaxy where most of the members don't speak the same language then you are going to feel isolated, especially if you are going to be needing guidance and cant get it as you cant communicate. With alliances based on language co-operating with them or having banter with them during a war is going to be tough again removing some of the fun of the game and turning it into a dull game of numbers.

If you are going to encourage people who don't speak a certain language to sign up then thats fine but you need to give them a way to realistically integrate with the rest of the community. Otherwise PATeam may as well just add thousands of bot planets around as they will do the same job
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Unread 21 Jul 2008, 12:15   #33
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Re: Planetarion Suggestion/Bitch Thread - Please read & reply!!!

People who speak Chinese may speak English, you know. That's not mutually exclusive, especially not when you consider that a lot of players are/were students.
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Unread 21 Jul 2008, 12:18   #34
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Re: Planetarion Suggestion/Bitch Thread - Please read & reply!!!

BITCHING

WHAT THE **** IS UP WITH THE NEW ANNOYING ADVERTISING BANNERS WHICH CONSTANTLY APPEAR ON THE BOTTOM OF SCREEN WHEN LOGGED INN TO PA?!?!

this shit is killing me and thats after looking at it for 1 min.

First thing thats being changed with pa with new owners, and already by far the worst change I ve ever seen

well done! - if this is something for free rounds only, I can accept it partly, but no way I m paying and willing to look at that.. suddenly cant play pa at work anymore because of the fking banners.

grmbl!
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Unread 21 Jul 2008, 12:21   #35
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Re: Planetarion Suggestion/Bitch Thread - Please read & reply!!!

Im not playing a round with such banners for paid accounts.
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Unread 21 Jul 2008, 12:25   #36
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Re: Planetarion Suggestion/Bitch Thread - Please read & reply!!!

I was planning on playing next round. but only if the ****ing banner gets removed!
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Unread 21 Jul 2008, 12:26   #37
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Re: Planetarion Suggestion/Bitch Thread - Please read & reply!!!

grats - can no longer play at work, excellent move new owners.
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Unread 21 Jul 2008, 12:28   #38
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Re: Planetarion Suggestion/Bitch Thread - Please read & reply!!!

Quote:
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BITCHING

WHAT THE **** IS UP WITH THE NEW ANNOYING ADVERTISING BANNERS WHICH CONSTANTLY APPEAR ON THE BOTTOM OF SCREEN WHEN LOGGED INN TO PA?!?!

this shit is killing me and thats after looking at it for 1 min.

First thing thats being changed with pa with new owners, and already by far the worst change I ve ever seen

well done! - if this is something for free rounds only, I can accept it partly, but no way I m paying and willing to look at that.. suddenly cant play pa at work anymore because of the fking banners.

grmbl!
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Unread 21 Jul 2008, 12:36   #39
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Re: Planetarion Suggestion/Bitch Thread - Please read & reply!!!

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Originally Posted by Membrivio View Post
People who speak Chinese may speak English, you know. That's not mutually exclusive, especially not when you consider that a lot of players are/were students.
I didn't say they were mutually exclusive. However surely the aim of translating isnt to attract these people, after all they can already sign up and play. Its to attract people who don't have a passable knowledge of English and who cant play the game due to that.
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Unread 21 Jul 2008, 12:39   #40
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Re: Planetarion Suggestion/Bitch Thread - Please read & reply!!!

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Im not playing a round with such banners for paid accounts.
What banner?
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Unread 21 Jul 2008, 12:40   #41
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Re: Planetarion Suggestion/Bitch Thread - Please read & reply!!!

Seems its gone again now
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Unread 21 Jul 2008, 12:44   #42
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Re: Planetarion Suggestion/Bitch Thread - Please read & reply!!!

If they come back can someone grab a screen shot and link to it here. I would be curious to see what kind of banner they seem to want to add
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Unread 21 Jul 2008, 12:45   #43
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Re: Planetarion Suggestion/Bitch Thread - Please read & reply!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by wakey View Post
What banner?
massive blinking banners for other online games, like travian and some samurai game. was blinking with wild colours.

its gone now though, and I m still alive.

if that shit ever gets implemented though, on a payed account - grmbl!
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I would give me right testicle to be in a gal with you wishmaster!!! wonder if thatd be enough to bribe spinner with hmmmm
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Unread 21 Jul 2008, 12:54   #44
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Re: Planetarion Suggestion/Bitch Thread - Please read & reply!!!

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If they come back can someone grab a screen shot and link to it here. I would be curious to see what kind of banner they seem to want to add
http://img88.imageshack.us/my.php?image=pabanneryg0.jpg

It was following you around at the bottom of the page.. quite annoying, and some of them were very blinky!
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Unread 21 Jul 2008, 12:56   #45
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Re: Planetarion Suggestion/Bitch Thread - Please read & reply!!!

<insert a load of crap about win/fail stuff here>

Edit: Banners dont go well with people who play from work, esp when relying on the spreadsheet skin =/

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Unread 21 Jul 2008, 12:57   #46
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Re: Planetarion Suggestion/Bitch Thread - Please read & reply!!!

Banners will not / never be on a paid account but as this is a free round all accounts will have seen them there.

The banner code we have doesn't fit well with the skins as you will also have seen.
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Unread 21 Jul 2008, 13:01   #47
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Re: Planetarion Suggestion/Bitch Thread - Please read & reply!!!

Ah, it's a banner. Anything nice? It's just a white bar on my pc.
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Unread 21 Jul 2008, 13:20   #48
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Re: Planetarion Suggestion/Bitch Thread - Please read & reply!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by biffy View Post
Banners will not / never be on a paid account but as this is a free round all accounts will have seen them there.

The banner code we have doesn't fit well with the skins as you will also have seen.
I wont be playing free rounds anymore then \o/
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I would give me right testicle to be in a gal with you wishmaster!!! wonder if thatd be enough to bribe spinner with hmmmm
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Unread 21 Jul 2008, 13:21   #49
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Re: Planetarion Suggestion/Bitch Thread - Please read & reply!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by biffy View Post
Banners will not / never be on a paid account but as this is a free round all accounts will have seen them there.

The banner code we have doesn't fit well with the skins as you will also have seen.
I would think again about adding banners such as the one in the screen shot. Those pop over style ads are annoying and as they continue to float can actually get in the way of what you are doing. It could potentially hinder people from carrying out actions such as recalling and could ruin their rounds. Not what you want to do if you want them to pay.

Also Free round havent ever carried banners, every account is upgraded so its as if you are playing with a paid account
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Unread 21 Jul 2008, 13:26   #50
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Re: Planetarion Suggestion/Bitch Thread - Please read & reply!!!

The real annoying part is when you scroll down the page and the banner blocks stuff below it but you can't scroll down further to see it all :/

I'm now unable to see my entire fleet on overview
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